Official Summer of Smash: Week #7 - EVO 2016 and Co.

[MistressRemilia]

L9999 Raito got 49th with Solo DH beating Jtails and Angel Crortez. I'm not sure this is good enough but I included him anyways

Edit: This also increases Hype around the other Japanese DH's. You3 believes that Brood is Much better then Raito and he got 49th at a Super Major

MistressRemilia 3 Shulks in top 64 at a Super Major is a really good Result (no meme intended)
Between Nicko,Dude and a NorCal Girl player that I can't name Atm

None of them reached Top 64 from what i've seen, are you sure you're not mistaken?

 

[Illuminose]

I think the kneejerk reaction of saying Ally is the 'best' or 'tied for the best' is probably wrong. No doubt, Ally's incredible and winning EVO is an insanely big deal, but we're quick to forget that he got 49th at CEO. Similarly you had ANTi win CEO and get 33rd at EVO. The reality is that we have a pretty decently sized pool of top players that can win major tournaments or get 49th. Ally taking this one after such a poor performance at CEO means that he won a supermajor, but it doesn't mean he's the best in the world. Precisely how ANTi wasn't the best in the world just because he won CEO -- although EVO is more prestigious overall, the point still stands.

 

[Yonder]

I think the kneejerk reaction of saying Ally is the 'best' or 'tied for the best' is probably wrong. No doubt, Ally's incredible and winning EVO is an insanely big deal, but we're quick to forget that he got 49th at CEO. Similarly you had ANTi win CEO and get 33rd at EVO. The reality is that we have a pretty decently sized pool of top players that can win major tournaments or get 49th. Ally taking this one after such a poor performance at CEO means that he won a supermajor, but it doesn't mean he's the best in the world. Precisely how ANTi wasn't the best in the world just because he won CEO -- although EVO is more prestigious overall, the point still stands.

I do think Ally is contender for the current best player. Zero is great when he goes on rage mode too but his losses are stacking up and he keeps losing to random characters that he is probably overlooking. Maybe he is too busy only looking at top tier matchups? Getting 1st at the games biggest tourney is nothing to scoff at, along with winning another big tourney (that I can't remember apologies). I do think Zero is 2nd best at least, rage Zero anyways. Who is better than Ally otherwise? Although Ranai seems to be really, really good still.

Yeah...rage Zero is his own person.

 

[Nobie]

One of Mega Man's weaknesses that was supposed to hold him back was a lack of kill setups.

But then Kamemushi developed some crazy stuff.

Basically, we need to look at the character differently.

 

[Jaguar360]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4t8jh4/evo_2016_complete_top_64_results/
EVO Top 64 results by @Tetra-76 buried in the depths of /r/smashbros

Characters used are in the link

• 1. Ally (undefeated)
• 2. Kamemushi (lost to Ally twice)
• 3. TSM | ZeRo (lost to Mr. E and Kamemushi)
• 4. CLG | VoiD (lost to Kamemushi and ZeRo)
• 5. Ranai (lost to Abadango and VoiD)
• 5. Abadango (lost to Ally and ZeRo)
• 7. dT | Dabuz (lost to Ally and Ranai)
• 7. eLevate | Larry Lurr (lost to Abadango and ZeRo)

• 9. Earth (lost to Kamemushi and ZeRo)
• 9. Vinnie (lost to VoiD and Larry Lurr)
• 9. Marss (lost to dyr and Ranai)
• 9. PG | Trela (lost to Ranai and Dabuz)
• 13. KEN (lost to VoiD and ZeRo)
• 13. Liquid | Nairo (lost to Ranai and Larry Lurr)
• 13. SS | Mr. E (lost to Vinnie and Marss)
• 13. VeXx | Oni Day (lost to Dren and Trela)
• 17. Komorikiri (lost to Dabuz and ZeRo)
• 17. MVG | dyr (lost to Ally and KEN)
• 17. Ito (lost to Mr. R and Nairo)
• 17. Pugwest (lost to Earth and Larry Lurr)
• 17. Rich Brown (lost to Komorikiri and Mr. E)
• 17. SF | Regi (lost to VoiD and Marss)
• 17. Mr. R (lost to Kamemushi and Trela)
• 17. ATR | Xaltis (lost to Earth and Day)
• 25. VGBC | SF | Hyuga (lost to Vinnie and ZeRo)
• 25. NME | Tyrant (lost to Regi and KEN)
• 25. K9sbruce (lost to Shaky and Ito)
• 25. Dath (lost to ANTi and Pugwest)
• 25. PG | SS (lost to Pink Fresh and Rich Brown)
• 25. Ned (lost to NAKAT and Marss)
• 25. PG | ESAM (lost to NickC and Trela)
• 25. Circa | 6WX (lost to Abadango and Day)

• 33. CT | Salem (lost to Mr. E and ZeRo)
• 33. Kirihara (lost to Hyuga twice)
• 33. PC | DOOM (lost to Regi and Tyrant)
• 33. TLTC (lost to KEN twice)
• 33. VeXx | Seagull Joe (lost to Mr. R and Ito)
• 33. Shaky (lost to Kamemushi and K9sbruce)
• 33. Tweek (lost to Earth and Pugwest)
• 33. dT | ANTi (lost to Xaltis and Dath)
• 33. EBG | BasK 3xA (lost to Dabuz and SS)
• 33. FOW (lost to Komorikiri and Rich Brown)
• 33. CLG | NAKAT (lost to Ally and Ned)
• 33. eM | Angbad (lost to Marss twice)
• 33. HIKARU (lost to Nairo and ESAM)
• 33. Wrath (lost to Ranai and Trela)
• 33. Rain (lost to Larry Lurr and Day)
• 33. SAK | Stroder (lost to 6WX twice)
• 49. Atrakt | Zenyou (lost to ZeRo and Salem)
• 49. Apologyman (lost to Waymas and Kirihara)
• 49. Zinoto (lost to DOOM and Tyrant)
• 49. 7S | saj (lost to TLTC twice)
• 49. Atrakt | Charliedaking (lost to Mr. R and Seagull Joe)
• 49. Tony Sherbert (lost to Wrath and K9sbruce)
• 49. pM | cyve (DQ'd for no reason, then lost to Pugwest)
• 49. MMG | Phoenix (lost to Dath twice)
• 49. VGBC | Pink Fresh (lost to Dabuz and SS)
• 49. E2C | Tyroy (lost to FOW and Rich Brown)
• 49. Raito (lost to Ned twice)
• 49. iQHQ | DKwill (lost to dyr and Angbad)
• 49. TGL | DJ Jack (lost to Nairo and ESAM)
• 49. VGBC | Logic (lost to Trela and Wrath)
• 49. GGA.NiTe (lost to Rain and Day)
• 49. SU | The Wall (lost to 6WX and Stroder)

 

[Wintermelon43]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4t8jh4/evo_2016_complete_top_64_results/
EVO Top 64 results by @Tetra-76 buried in the depths of /r/smashbros

Characters used are in the link

.....Who's Tony Sherbet?

 

[|RK|]

I do think Ally is contender for the current best player. Zero is great when he goes on rage mode too but his losses are stacking up and he keeps losing to random characters that he is probably overlooking. Maybe he is too busy only looking at top tier matchups? Getting 1st at the games biggest tourney is nothing to scoff at, along with winning another big tourney (that I can't remember apologies). I do think Zero is 2nd best at least, rage Zero anyways. Who is better than Ally otherwise? Although Ranai seems to be really, really good still.

Yeah...rage Zero is his own person.

He still hasn't left the top 16. I'd say ZeRo is still the most consistent, even post-patch. A 1st, handful of 2nd, a 3rd, and a 9th.

 

[HoSmash4]

One of Mega Man's weaknesses that was supposed to hold him back was a lack of kill setups.

But then Kamemushi developed some crazy stuff.

Basically, we need to look at the character differently.

What are Megamans weaknesses?

 

[Sinister Slush]

.....Who's Tony Sherbet?

Rosalina player in Houston, TX.

 

[Nu~]

What are Megamans weaknesses?

I'm not Nobie, but I think he's referring to mega man's nonexistent cqc, how he's easy combo food, and his generally low damage output without Z drop tricks.

 

[L9999]

We saw it in his Ally matches. Megaman is a sandbag.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What are Megamans weaknesses?

Easily comboed, predictable recovery and easy to ledge trump, metal blade being taken away takes away a good number of his offensive options, and only has a handful of reliable kill options without set ups.

 

[Ninety]

So AnTi sent Dath to losers and Dath eliminated him once there? Dang, I wish that had been on stream.

 

[Jexulus]

Easily comboed, predictable recovery and easy to ledge trump, metal blade being taken away takes away a good number of his offensive options, and only has a handful of reliable kill options without set ups.

Thing is, in light of yesterday's results, how many of these actually matter, and to what extent? True as these attributes may be, in the hands of a skilled player, I'd hardly consider these crippling.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Thing is, in light of yesterday's results, how many of these actually matter, and to what extent? True as these attributes may be, in the hands of a skilled player, I'd hardly consider these crippling.

There's a big difference between a character having weaknesses and a player being so good that they make them largely irrelevant. Ranai, Ally, and Kamemushi are all prime examples of this. They still definitely matter to most players.

Add in: Think of it like this. Pro baseball players regularly hit pitches that are thrown at 90+ mph but your average college or even minor league player would likely be on the verge of crapping their pants if they saw a fastball coming towards them that fast. Just because someone makes it look easy, doesn't mean it isn't hard for most people.

 

[RonNewcomb]

L9999 Raito got 49th with Solo DH beating Jtails and Angel Crortez. I'm not sure this is good enough but I included him anyways

Edit: This also increases Hype around the other Japanese DH's. You3 believes that Brood is Much better then Raito and he got 49th at a Super Major

MistressRemilia 3 Shulks in top 64 at a Super Major is a really good Result (no meme intended)
Between Nicko,Dude and a NorCal Girl player that I can't name Atm

Soronie?

 

[NegaNixx]

Is there a fully updated bracket anywhere?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Regarding , what makes me laugh is that people still think he is just being overrated.

Character gets solo top 16 at a super major? Nope, all luck, still overrated.

Marth is clearly on the cusp of high tier at this point, and his results and numbers show it.

---
And regarding , he's definitely top 5 at this point at the lowest, though top 3 seems most likely right now.

The good thing about Mario, is while he has great mobility, great close quarters moves, great combos, and can be mind-bogglingly tough to punish at times, even he has his flaws. While he has combos, his below average damage output helps to keep this from being too oppressive (this is part of the reason pre-patch Luigi's combo game was unfair). He can't particularly contend with disjoint, and must be very careful around them; characters like Cloud, and Marth in particular can give him a rough time if he isn't careful. He also lacks KO setups, and has to rely on landing a raw KO move to net the kill, such as Back Air or Up Smash (but with how good running reverse Up Smash is, that flaw can be somewhat less of a problem).

Mario is great fun to watch for me. Aside from Dabuz and Mr.E (for obvious reasons), Ally might be my favourite player.

 

[Yikarur]

Mario is not suddenly Top3 just because some world class player excels with him. Ally is one of the best smash players in the world since Brawl. There are a lot of Mario players (statistically) and you don't really see anyone except Zenyou, Ally und Anti (who plays a lot of characters) to do well. I've never heard of Marios outside of those 3.

 

[Ninety]

Hey, anyone know the pot distribution? Up what place geta a cut?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Mario is not suddenly Top3 just because some world class player excels with him. Ally is one of the best smash players in the world since Brawl. There are a lot of Mario players (statistically) and you don't really see anyone except Zenyou, Ally und Anti (who plays a lot of characters) to do well. I've never heard of Marios outside of those 3.

Who else would be top 3 then? Name which characters you think are the top 3? Pretty sure I can guess two of them, but for a third, Mario has a very strong case.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Although Mario did very well at EVO, it was largely due to Ally's success with the character, as most of the Mario's on stream didn't get that far.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...PwUQjQ-Ew0QyTc4/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tlxAZv5pv19QDHUtqR2Ddo06xy8/htmlview?sle=true

Compare this to Diddy Kong, who not only had more players on the stream than Mario, but he also gathered a lot more success as well.


I am of the firm belief that Mario is a Top 15 character at least, though Top 10 could be more suiting for him in most people's eyes. However, I highly doubt that he is a Top 3 character, or even a Top 5 character. And the biggest reason behind this is that he simply doesn't overwhelm most top tier characters. Plus, there are a good number of characters that have a slight edge against him within the upper tiers, as well.

Mario has a clear advantage against (?), but he has disadvantageous matchups against and I think against too. He also has trouble against characters like and possibly although they are a tier lower than the other characters he has trouble against. And while are pretty even matchups, Mario's ability to easily edgeguard them is a large reason why he is able to keep relatively even matchups with those characters (same with Marth). Otherwise, they have strengths that hit Mario pretty hard, such as Cloud's/Marth's range or Fox's speed and CQC strength. is a similar case, although he has far more strength for Mario to worry about at the cost of being easier for Mario to deal with overall. are mostly even, though it could be said that Mario has a slight advantage against Sheik now.


Outside of the first two-three characters I mentioned though, Mario doesn't have a HUGE advantage against anyone in the top tiers, and there are a good number of checks and counters against him as well. And while this makes Mario's MU spread "well-rounded" overall within the high-top tiers, it isn't really that special when can boast similar claims and yet can have even better MU's and results. Diddy in particular, for sure. And while Sheik had a bit of a fall from grace, Cloud did pretty poorly at EVO, and Mewtwo has a much smaller player base; I feel as though that all four of them are stronger than Mario as a whole/overall.

 

[BSP]

The good thing about Mario[...] great mobility, [...]

I'm not sure where people are getting this from. Mario isn't slow, but he's not fast by any means either. He has good air speed, but average mobility overall.

Numbers from Kuroganehammer:

He's 28-30th for run speed along with Ryu and Bayonetta at 1.6. I don't know where we draw the line for "fast" at, but I hope it's not top 30. I put it around Palutena.

His air speed is 9-11th at 1.15. This is fast for air speed, but not in terms of getting from point A to point B quickly. It's as fast as Robin's run, for reference.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'm not sure where people are getting this from. Mario isn't slow, but he's not fast by any means either. He has good air speed, but average mobility overall.

Numbers from Kuroganehammer:

He's 28-30th for run speed along with Ryu and Bayonetta at 1.6. I don't know where we draw the line for "fast" at, but I hope it's not top 30. I put it around Palutena.

His air speed is 9-11th at 1.15. This is fast for air speed, but not in terms of getting from point A to point B quickly. It's as fast as Robin's run, for reference.

Mario has great mobility in the fact that, while his run speed is merely average, it's the fact that he doesn't really have to stay in a laggy state for too long, and as such, can stay mobile in most cases whenever he wants. His aerials all have relatively low landing lag, which means he can throw an aerial out when attempting to land with ease. Due to his approach options having little lag also, he can also approach most times whenever he wants, and is tough to punish if he makes the wrong choice.

 

[BSP]

Mario has great mobility in the fact that, while his run speed is merely average, it's the fact that he doesn't really have to stay in a laggy state for too long, and as such, can stay mobile in most cases whenever he wants. His aerials all have relatively low landing lag, which means he can throw an aerial out when attempting to land with ease. Due to his approach options having little lag also, he can also approach most times whenever he wants, and is tough to punish if he makes the wrong choice.

I think you're leaning more towards frame data then. If you are, I agree. Mario is exceptional in that department.

 

[Yikarur]

Super Big Post incoming (and cross post with CCI)

This weekend is PPT SUMMER in germany! Europe's biggest tournament since Beast 6 (don't quote me on that tho)
There are about 190 entrants from all over europe.
Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...ament_thread_pandalis_pandemonium_tournament/

Stream:
GeekyGoonSquad on www.twitch.tv/GeekyGoonSquad
Probably the worlds best Smash streamer who got signed by mYinsanity.
https://twitter.com/GGs_Liva


Commentators:
Max Ketchum (known to everyone)
Cyanide (Commetated with Max at Beast already, he's awesome!)
Sam the Commentator + Co-Commentator (main commentator of Avalon)

Players to watch out for:
Japan:
Abdango (Will Abadango win this tournament?? I'm super excited)

Netherlands:
istudying Netherlands currently highest ranked player after Mr. R and europe's/worlds best greninja
Badr Albion winner
Gregs
Joey

United Kingdom:
Ixis Neokan Party #2 Winner and europe's best Sonic
C.R.Z.
SevereCalamari

France:
Elaxiao currently frances best player and people argue he might be better than istudy
Homika France's and maybe europe's best Rosalina

Austria:
vyQ Beefy Smash Doods and austrians best player!
Luigi_player (europe's best Luigi for sure)
cfive Beefy Smash Doods main voice! Everyone knows him

Switzerland:
Destany (Most likely Europe's best Little Mac)

Luxembourg:
otek Europe Top PM player who recently got a WiiU but placed well at tournaments without one already!
Trax

Sweden:
Izaw (Europe's best Link. and I guess everyone knows him)

Germany:
Sodrek (Arguable Europe Top3 player. Europe's best Fox and best Cloud)
Light fifth place at BEAST 6 and there he put istudy in losers
quiK Europe's best Zero Suit Samus player. He was a european top player in brawl and continues to stay a top player in melee and smash 4 as well)
LoNg0uw Europe's best ROB for sure
BluB Could be europe's best Bayonetta. He was Germany's Top2 in Brawl for a long time and continues to be a really strong player with strong results in Smash 4 as well
Purple~H He was germany's best snake in Brawl and started Smash 4 recently with very strong results from the get go.
Yikarur Europe's best Yoshi and Mii Brawler. Remember that european tournaments have Guest Mii Brawler with all moves legal most of the time.

and many moreeeee

There will be a German Community vs. World Crew Battle on friday at about 10pm CEST !

I'd really like if everyone will spread the info about the tournament!

 

[Betatech]

I dont think its fair to judge people off of evo results considering a lot of players were seemingly off their game (anti,zinoto,nairo,esam) and many were put off by the poor quality of the event itself.

 

[Jaguar360]

Decently stacked 120-player South Florida weekly going on today with 8Bitman, Xaltis, Purple Guy, Dath, Seibrik, True Blue, Tremendo Dude and DJ Jack. Would this count for your rankings @Das Koopa?
http://versus.challonge.com/s4_072116

Another good weekly going on today in SoCal with some good players outside the region like Marss, DK Will, Pugwest, Pink Fresh and Mr. E, but only 70 entrants.
http://challonge.com/fad_chamion

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Tremendo dude and Nicko Both got 9th in the vsgc and fad tournaments with Shulk respectivley