Social Stuff that ends in fair..... A Sheik Social Thread!

[soap]

the dair was weakened due to being pulled out early.

but good spacing anyways

 

[Twin_A]

Even me?

D=

especially you!

This about sums it up

 

[Skyson]

That spacing was delicious, but also what soap said. Might not have beaten a fresh dair. Sheik2good.

 

[Teczer0]

Yea you two are probably right. It makes sense because falco's dair > sheik.

 

[Skyson]

I wish I wasn't right, that's the thing. I wish Sheik's fair could eat everything Falco had and make a nice little bird sandwich. 3:


I tried to go to Zant's youtube to look for Falco's hitboxes, but ironically, Falco is like the only character whose hitboxes aren't uploaded. *facepalm*

 

[Teczer0]

Lmao xD

I'm actually okay with it. I just have to remember to let falco do something then react to whatever they did.

I remember Zhu telling me I challenge falco too much and then my life has never been the same?

 

[Skyson]

Pfffft.

Falco shoots his gun all day at you like "WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT THIS?"

Then you just WANT to get in there and do something. And you try to! Then Falco's like "lol" and his dair just tells whatever you tried to do to get out of his house, and you eat a ~50% combo. Then you're like "god dammit why did I do that" and get away, then he shoots lasers and it repeats again. aaaa I hate Falco.


Unrelated but I think I'll be MMing three people today: a Fox, a Peach, and a Zelda player.

Sheik/Zelda is so weird. It feels so completely NOT in Sheik's favor... then I get a grab and all is right with the world. :3

 

[Teczer0]

The trick is to never really get in there. The bad part about playing the match up is you have to let falco act first then act on a read or react to whatever they do.

Its a really hard match up though

 

[KirbyKaze]

Camp Zelda

Heavy WD oos abuse

D-throw slap

Needles on her recovery, grab edge, let her land onstage and then D-throw slap her again and repeat that until she dies (at 100 or so if she doesn't DI away you D-throw Uair for the vertical KO, some grab attacks needed maybe depending on level and on DL64 she has to be at like 110 or something)

If you're crouched she can't SH rising kick and hit you with it

You win now

 

[Teczer0]

Dave tell me more of your secrets so I can be as good as you

 

[KirbyKaze]

Lately I've been using Bair a lot more, sometimes without fast falling my jumps

It seems good

I want to try to experiment with U-tilt vs non-tech/tech stands (FFers obviously), stuff like U-tilt and then if the second hit knocks them into the air without stun then just jab immediately (maybe double jab?) then grab them and keep going

Not a real combo but might be funny to try

After I land FJ rising Bair on Peach at some percents now I just fall and waveland jump Bair again and it seems to cover a lot

 

[soap]

careful with the utilt. if they get the cc in, it's bad news.

 

[KirbyKaze]

this is true

but i'd be doing this only at percents where if i u-tilt them out of their tech/non-tech animation they get knocked over

this is probably only going to work at a very limited range of percents but i want to experiment

sheik *****

<3 sheik

 

[Skyson]

I ended up going Zelda to beat Peach. <_<

We did a tourney at our smashfest yesterday and I got 3rd.

Went to game 5 in winners' finals, Peach main switched to Fox after I CP'd Final Destination and 3-stocked my Sheik. >_>

Go to losers' finals, my Sheik gets worked by another Fox main, 3-stocked twice. Then I CP Dream Land and pick Puff, and he only 1 stocks me. I was worried for my own sake. <_<;


How2Sheik/Fox. It feels like a REALLY hard match up. I was practicing against a Falco earlier, and it was full of fantastic edgeguard/gimps, so it didn't feel bad, but Fox... it doesn't feel like I can combo him at all onstage. Just a ton of poking and racking up %s, then as soon as I get grabbed I eat ~30%, or I get hit by shine and it follows into usmash which hurts. I can't trade %s with Fox very well. x_x

 

[gm jack]

It's tricky at low percents, but at high percents you start to have more and more options as CC loses its use. At low percents, needles, SHFFLed aerials and grab to tech chase is your friend. At high percents, more or less everything starts to work. Just focus on staying out of his huge running SH nair range, but once you get a hit in, keep the pressure on. Once he loses his ability to run around, you have a huge range advantage which is easy to abuse.

And gimping is slightly harder than falco, but same principals applies. Kill the jump then hit them away. Without a double jump they have very few options. then it is a case of just hitting them away until you can edge hog them.

 

[Matthew Jackson]

Sheik is pretty much an amazing character and yeah.

 

[KirbyKaze]

How2Sheik/Fox. It feels like a REALLY hard match up. I was practicing against a Falco earlier, and it was full of fantastic edgeguard/gimps, so it didn't feel bad, but Fox... it doesn't feel like I can combo him at all onstage. Just a ton of poking and racking up %s, then as soon as I get grabbed I eat ~30%, or I get hit by shine and it follows into usmash which hurts. I can't trade %s with Fox very well. x_x

Bair a ****load

WD back F-tilt a ****load

When you pressure him into blocking, wait sometimes... Sheiks like to throw out moves on shields but a lot of that is completely unnecessary. Just wait. Fox has no range so there's a certain spot you can just sort of penis around outside of his range and punish him for coming out of shield. Inching forwards ever so slightly and grabbing him (you kind of do a Marth and grab him from really far away) is also good.

Also, Fox is really good at punishing that's even slightly misspaced on his shield so yeah there's a lot of good reasons to just wait or inch forward and grab, or inch forward just every so slightly and wait (while still being outside his U-smash/Dair/Nair oos range).

If they start jumping out of shield, throw moves above their head (Drephen does Fair, I do Bair, it doesn't really matter which but do something... you kind of pull a Peach here). You can also just attack them.

But in general, you want grabs and knockdowns more than anything so you can get the ball rolling. So take advantage of the fact that most people are fairly passive vs Sheik (and wait for your mindless, nooby tilt spam) and **** them.

When they approach, whenever it is a feasible option, move back grab (DD grab, pivot grab, WD back grab, variations of those, combination of movement --> grab, etc.) and then do a big tech chase or combo and **** them. Otherwise **** their move with range.

Offensively, just zone with your bigger range. Run, stop, attack if necessary or if they can't punish it (or if you can hit them with reasonably good spacing or with a low, strong aerial), otherwise move forward / back accordingly.








Extra - There are some tricks to hitting dash attacks / boost grabs and certain behaviours you can pick up on to make those happen but those only work against really specific styles of Fox movement. So just throwing them out when there isn't an opening can be bad because of the lag. It's better to generally abuse her moves' range, since it's an area where she's straight up better than Fox. If you have good tech chases, you should be outpacing him on the big punishes that occur in the stock.

Extra - A huge part of Fox's game in this MU is trying to not let you have spatial superiority. So a lot of times, when under pressure, it's best to just try your absolute best and reset the spacing to neutral. Trying to muscle through Fox only really works if Fox does something dumb (like jab or whatever and gets CCed) or if he makes an execution error. Even if you do muscle your way out of Fox pressure, it can often backfire because trying to force an F-tilt or whatever can just lead to him baiting them and getting stupidly ridiculous punishes. You will have to run away and reposition a lot. That's just how this MU is. It CAN be good to come down with attacks, or try to fight his spacing, but the main point I want to make is that you have to be extremely careful about doing it.

Extra - More on spacing. A lot of Fox's game will be spent trying to make you do moves in a range where it's unsafe to do so. So be careful in that far range, where he's slightly out of your F-tilt / Bair range and is waiting. At that point, you either want to be closer if you're going to push offense, or even further away if you're going to play defense. While I think defense is generally better, you have to use some offense in this MU. But doing moves in place to get baited and punished is... not good.

 

[Skyson]

...wow.

I'm gonna read this over so many times tonight. I run a weekly with friends on Wednesdays and I think I can take most of this to heart against the Fox player that 3-0'd me. :l

I think I forget the simpler AT's when I play seriously. I don't wavedash, I don't dashdance, I mostly dash and jump and basic stuff. The usefulness of doing things other than directly attacking the opponent keep averting my mind when I'm playing seriously. I need to get over that more than anything, 'cause I think it makes me way too predictable.

I don't even use needles much in serious games until I'm edge guarding. I need to do more on-stage needles. Forcing approaches to let people think they can get inside my range (when obviously they can't, I'm Sheik, lolz) leads to grabs, and grabs are yummy.

I've been starting to think about picking up a secondary for spacies but I'm not confident that I'm better with anyone besides Sheik, so I need to get more comfortable with this matchup for Sheik. It's really annoying and most of the best players in my area have a good Fox. :/


Thanks a lot, KirbyKaze. <3

 

[edgeluca]

Sheik is pretty much an amazing character and yeah.

yeahhhhhhhh.

 

[Pita]

Anyone know any good 2v2 Sheik strategies? I find myself dsmashing and fairing a lot, and it gets kinda predictable.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

teams is more about controlling space in tangent with your partner which requires more of a fluid mastery of your character than singles. How you play needs to be dynamic based on your teammate and your opponents. Generally I don't think dsmash is that great of a move, but drephen makes it work. Shffling fairs and bairs is a good way to keep your lag down while keeping your mobility high. Ftilt stuffs a lot of approaches so abuse that. Aka, general sheik stuff

 

[soap]

if u have an aggresive partner and play behind him, ground needles are amazing if you use them right. You can get your team-mates free grabs and the like

 

[Matthew Jackson]

if u have an aggresive partner and play behind him, ground needles are amazing if you use them right. You can get your team-mates free grabs and the like

this.

I never get many kills as I'm busying running around herding the opponents for my teammate to slaughter them.

 

[AlcyoNite]

i LOVE sheik in teams

but u need an aggro partner to really compliment sheik's weaknesses

 

[Corrupt Wolf]

I'm still new to Melee so I don't know if this is really a good team or not but, I was playing 2v2 with some friends and a Sheik, Falcon team seemed to work well.

 

[Teczer0]

I'm still new to Melee so I don't know if this is really a good team or not but, I was playing 2v2 with some friends and a Sheik, Falcon team seemed to work well.

Its not a bad team. Falcon has much more kill potential than sheik so imo it works out.

And hai welcome to the sheik board, I've seen you've been posting around. Hope to see you post more man. Post in the QnA thread because everyone talks there

 

[Twin_A]

Wow it has been far too long since I visited this thread. How are my fellow sheiks doing? :D

 

[soap]

Doing well. My area recently started playing again so that's always fun.

 

[Pita]

Personally I like Sheik/Puff or Sheik/Fox, but Puff and Fox are teammates that work well with everyone. Then again, I do as well as my teammate does. If they fail, I fail. If they ****, I ****. I'm not much of a team carry, it seems.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

support is a valuable role too. You don't get all the glory, but you get wins more often.

 

[Twin_A]

I play a much better support then I do aggressor. That's what took my bro and I so long to realize when we team. I'm the better player between the two, so we tried to make his puff support and it just wasn't working. Then we swapped and we slowly started learning how to make it work. Now we finally have chemistry and we're able to beat some really good teams in our area :D

 

[Bamesy]

Yui is a *****

 

[Teczer0]

Yui is a *****

 

[Bamesy]

Don't even try.

You're in for a surprise.

What are you supposed to hit me with?
Fair?
Good luck. :D

 

[Twin_A]

Don't even try.

You're in for a surprise.

What are you supposed to hit me with?
Fair?
Good luck. :D

 

[edgeluca]

Don't even try.

You're in for a surprise.

What are you supposed to hit me with?
Fair?
Good luck. :D

You're ****ed. lol

 

[Salevits]

Hiya. The noobish Sheik from Finland enters the ring, looking to improve but also to talk ****. Please be gentle to me.

I'm still new to Melee so I don't know if this is really a good team or not but, I was playing 2v2 with some friends and a Sheik, Falcon team seemed to work well.

I'm entering a tourney in two weeks and i'll be teaming with a dude who plays falcon but sometimes also Ganondorf in teams. Do you think Sheik&Ganon can work well?
Here's a video of us playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byxWgSSdGlc&feature=related - - Any advice (other than "do not **** your teammate, man..", since that i already know)

Also: Yui = _LOVE_

 

[Teczer0]

Hiya. The noobish Sheik from Finland enters the ring, looking to improve but also to talk ****. Please be gentle to me.



I'm entering a tourney in two weeks and i'll be teaming with a dude who plays falcon but sometimes also Ganondorf in teams. Do you think Sheik&Ganon can work well?
Here's a video of us playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byxWgSSdGlc&feature=related - - Any advice (other than "do not **** your teammate, man..", since that i already know)

Also: Yui = _LOVE_

Hey there nice to meet you

Sheik/ganon is okay imo haha me and Linguini did it before and made it work =3. Sheik's grabs into aerial pass to ganon is lolow

That last sentence you typed means me and you can get along

Yui da bess.

 

[Pita]

I play with a Ganon who always smacks me with fairs on accident. Then again, he hates Sheik enough to do that. Ganon's a pretty good teammate though overall, since you can do the damage and he can do the last hitting.

 

[Salevits]

Amsah, I've finally fully understood the source of your inhuman skills!

http://www.thegeekgeneration.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/v3pre_024-025.gif

http://www.purejeevan.com/video/blogpix/082110-toddvegan.jpg