-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Stuff About Puff
- Thread starter MaNg0
- Start date
- Status
GSUB
Smash Lord
ohhhh, lol, oops.
fair, nair, f-tilt, and The HungryBox are amazing edgeguards.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Its the opposite for me.
^ And this is why. With Fox, I just throw out a SH Nair, and it knocks out their recovery, forcing them to take the edge, or take a hit/grab. And you should know about the DThrow vs FFers on the edge thing. Too good.
With Falco, though, he gets on stage too fast. There's not enough time for me to throw out my SH Nair to block off their recovery. I've been told my vs Fox edgeguarding is pretty good, but I can't seem to do anything near as good against Falcos. Maybe I should just jump out with a Fair, or do a dash attack from a dash dance upon reaction time. It hits under the stage, right?
Can someone check for me if Puff's dash attack can hit a sweetspotted phantasm?
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Why wouldn't you just run off and fair? I don't really see the point of nair unless you're too late for a fair, and then you could just dtilt
GSUB
Smash Lord
If they're sweet-spotting phantasm, d-smash em or grab the edge or jump off n back-air or fair level to the ledge
if you grab the ledge they're kinda effed cause: you can continue to edgeguard, and if they land on stage, punish with ledgehopped nair to things, or ledgehopped pound/rest.
if you grab the ledge they're kinda effed cause: you can continue to edgeguard, and if they land on stage, punish with ledgehopped nair to things, or ledgehopped pound/rest.
idea
Smash Master
ohh okay, that's easier then.
- if he illusions above you onstage: grab and backthrow back off
- if he illusions right at you: f-tilt
- if he can't get to suitable height for illusion (and will fire...falco): jump out with fairs, yeah
- if he sweetspots: you could grab the edge. dash attack...i can't tell by looking at the frames if it would hit a perfectly sweetspotted falco, but it does go fairly low. dtilt would probably be more likely to hit, but it's a bit slow. f-tilt works really well if they don't perfectly sweetspot.
and yeah, copy hungrybox with that thing he does =P falcos seem easy to trick into side-bing onstage vs. puff. if you jump toward the edge then float back, they often enough will illusion right at you and you can crouch rest.
^ grab the edge now and then so that even if you fail those edgeguards, they at least know you're willing to take the edge. if they see you waiting onstage every time they'll just go to the edge themselves, since they'll know it's safe.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
By "Hungrybox thing" do you mean the SH Nair or the rest? Just curious, lol. Both I noticed from HBox, but the SH Nair was first seen by The King in his Rest In Peace combo video.
By the way, I think most people haven't noticed the way I edgeguard. Its all upon reaction time or blocking their option of recovering on-stage. This forces them to get onto the edge, and I need to know a way to hit them if they try to sweetspot with me on the stage.
I don't think people understand, or maybe I'm just bad and don't have enough experience, that the SH Nair really does force them to sweet spot or get hit off-stage, just to be hit with some more Fairs. If they go on-stage, they get hit with your Nair, or if they go over, you can BThrow -> Aerial or that Dthrow -> Rest/Aerial, or rest.
When I force them to go sweet spot this way, it becomes the only option I need to be able to cover.
I hope that clears things up.
By the way, I think most people haven't noticed the way I edgeguard. Its all upon reaction time or blocking their option of recovering on-stage. This forces them to get onto the edge, and I need to know a way to hit them if they try to sweetspot with me on the stage.
I don't think people understand, or maybe I'm just bad and don't have enough experience, that the SH Nair really does force them to sweet spot or get hit off-stage, just to be hit with some more Fairs. If they go on-stage, they get hit with your Nair, or if they go over, you can BThrow -> Aerial or that Dthrow -> Rest/Aerial, or rest.
When I force them to go sweet spot this way, it becomes the only option I need to be able to cover.
I hope that clears things up.
idea
Smash Master
the thing where you crouch near the middle off the stage, spacies side-b, you crouch and rest them. i don't see anyone else doing that much.
hmm...but i imagine that if you sh nair, that gives them time to sweetspot. i don't think you have time to sh nair to cover those options, AND cover the grabbing the edge option. you timing it as if they were going to illusion right at you, would give them enough time to drop slightly lower and go for the free edge, wouldn't it?
but if you are gonna nair onstage first...i guess your options are dtilt, dsmash, and jumping off with fair, depending on what they do. the first two are kind of unreliable and the last might take more time than you have. i guess you could also nair, then turn around wavedash to the edge, but again, probably too slow.
long story short, grab the edge sometimes =P
hmm...but i imagine that if you sh nair, that gives them time to sweetspot. i don't think you have time to sh nair to cover those options, AND cover the grabbing the edge option. you timing it as if they were going to illusion right at you, would give them enough time to drop slightly lower and go for the free edge, wouldn't it?
but if you are gonna nair onstage first...i guess your options are dtilt, dsmash, and jumping off with fair, depending on what they do. the first two are kind of unreliable and the last might take more time than you have. i guess you could also nair, then turn around wavedash to the edge, but again, probably too slow.
long story short, grab the edge sometimes =P
dudutsai
Smash Lord
I have no problem landing the first hit by just playing reactive.
As long as I have enough time, I always follow them off and see what they do. No matter what they try, sweetspot fair will always work.
If I don't have enough time, I just wait on the ledge and punish with fsmash/dtilt/rest
As long as I have enough time, I always follow them off and see what they do. No matter what they try, sweetspot fair will always work.
If I don't have enough time, I just wait on the ledge and punish with fsmash/dtilt/rest
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
When I said grab, I meant grab them. Not grab the edge, I need to edge cancel a backwards Nair for that, but I assume the only reason I'll do that is if they sweetspot the edge which would be faster than my Nair.
The SH Nair thing I'm talking about gets them 50% of the time if not more, and it gets me a kill. Once they finally catch on, which is usually after the second time they got killed by this, they'll try for a sweet spot Side B to get the edge. Of course, if I just jump off, they'll react. That's what I don't want. That's why I wanted to stay on the stage, to make them go under, where I'll just empty hop fast fall -> edgeguard move (probably DSmash).
That seemed to be too slow. I don't have anyone to play right now, but I just thought of Nairing off-stage, or do the regular Nair thing I'm trying to describe, and edge cancel it forwards and come down with a Fair. This sounds to me like it will work, and the only option they have now is to Up B really early, or Side B over me.
But seriously, I'm telling you, the SH Nair thing is too good.
The SH Nair thing I'm talking about gets them 50% of the time if not more, and it gets me a kill. Once they finally catch on, which is usually after the second time they got killed by this, they'll try for a sweet spot Side B to get the edge. Of course, if I just jump off, they'll react. That's what I don't want. That's why I wanted to stay on the stage, to make them go under, where I'll just empty hop fast fall -> edgeguard move (probably DSmash).
That seemed to be too slow. I don't have anyone to play right now, but I just thought of Nairing off-stage, or do the regular Nair thing I'm trying to describe, and edge cancel it forwards and come down with a Fair. This sounds to me like it will work, and the only option they have now is to Up B really early, or Side B over me.
But seriously, I'm telling you, the SH Nair thing is too good.
idea
Smash Master
haha, okay, i'll have to try it then. which leads back to you and i being at the same place for smash bros eventually.
i don't like dsmash much. it's great when it hits, but its weakness is that it usually doesn't.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Same. I try to avoid using DSmash if possible, that's why I was originally asking about the dash attack, since that can be done upon reaction time.
We'll have to play each other some time. Are you free Saturdays? Come to BlurR's... After the exams, of course.
We'll have to play each other some time. Are you free Saturdays? Come to BlurR's... After the exams, of course.
idea
Smash Master
yeah, i'm done exams now. i'll probably be able to come some future/near saturday.
GSUB
Smash Lord
dsmash ***** sweetspotting falcons, unless they tech lol.
_KuyaSombreo_
Smash Ace
Mango, do you even go Puff anymore?
idea
Smash Master
he goes puff when he wants to get ***** by ganons 
Zori
Smash Champion
daaaaaaaang
idea
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oTnOSdy-JM&feature=related
this is why it isn't good to edgeguard (mainly) onstage =(
additionally, how the hell does he keep hitting fox with all those nairs?
this is why it isn't good to edgeguard (mainly) onstage =(
additionally, how the hell does he keep hitting fox with all those nairs?
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Guys, guys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oqT2y4DRoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhYF3v1gsA
sometimes I like Jigglypuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oqT2y4DRoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhYF3v1gsA
sometimes I like Jigglypuff.
idea
Smash Master
lol, you *******.
if i were the falco i would have gone on the platform and tried falling through it + dair. i bet it would have worked eventually...
edit: and maybe dair out of shield hoping you mistimed the fairs.
GSUB
Smash Lord
looooooooooooool
I'd camp the ledge like that in tournament but only if a lot of people were watching.
Otherwise, it's dumb, hahaha.
I'd camp the ledge like that in tournament but only if a lot of people were watching.
Otherwise, it's dumb, hahaha.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
At 1:30, he could have done the thing I was talking about.
I don't see when he shouldn't have edgeguarded while being on-stage, except for when Cactuar was much too low to have any other option.
I also noticed he likes to be on top of those platforms. Why is this?
idea
Smash Master
he shouldn't have edgeguarded on stage so much cause he kept messing up X_X i mean, it's not hard to mess some of that stuff up. it's probably not impossible to edgeguard perfectly that way, but there are easier, more effective methods. more than once i was thinking "just grab the edge dammit!"
and i dunno about the platforms. maybe just a general aim to not let fox get above him. i didn't really notice him doing that though.
since when does cactus roll so predictably, anyway...?
and i dunno about the platforms. maybe just a general aim to not let fox get above him. i didn't really notice him doing that though.
since when does cactus roll so predictably, anyway...?
hungrybox
Smash Legend
Don't edgecamp...
you don't need it.
you don't need it.
Jboy313
Smash Apprentice
HawaiianJigglyPuff
Smash Ace
This is going to be an odd question...but I am looking for a really specific answer, so please don't say anything if you are going to be vague with your answer.
Basically my problem is that I've had a lot of trouble with how I watch the game. I don't think I watch what is going on correctly. What exactly do you think about when you're playing? Do you break it down like this for example: He could jump at me or run towards me, and then you prepare yourself for both possibilities?
This could be a question for melee discussion but I feel like I have this problem mostly with Jiggs. I don't need any more tech skill with Jiggs (to my knowledge)...but I just can't play better. Hmm, I'm not exactly sure what I'm asking I guess. But I'm stuck and I don't know how to get better. When I play, I try to focus on my opponent but I don't think it helps.
My friend usually plays fox/falco, but mainly fox. I guess maybe I need to improve on my spacing...but how do I go about doing that?
Basically my problem is that I've had a lot of trouble with how I watch the game. I don't think I watch what is going on correctly. What exactly do you think about when you're playing? Do you break it down like this for example: He could jump at me or run towards me, and then you prepare yourself for both possibilities?
This could be a question for melee discussion but I feel like I have this problem mostly with Jiggs. I don't need any more tech skill with Jiggs (to my knowledge)...but I just can't play better. Hmm, I'm not exactly sure what I'm asking I guess. But I'm stuck and I don't know how to get better. When I play, I try to focus on my opponent but I don't think it helps.
My friend usually plays fox/falco, but mainly fox. I guess maybe I need to improve on my spacing...but how do I go about doing that?
rason110290
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2005
- Messages
- 116
Spacing is knowing How gay to play without being really gay.
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Do you only play a few friends? If it seems like you can't do better no matter how hard you try, it's probably because you play the same people too much.
idea
Smash Master
k, i'll try to help, since i've spent some time thinking about things like this myself.
i could probably stand to be better at this myself, but...i try to figure out roll patterns, for one thing. more generally i think "what is this person doing a lot of and how can i counter it". like...okay, this fox shuffles nairs at me. if he does this a lot then he will probably do it again very soon.
i think that's the essence of it. what are they doing a lot of and what can i do that will beat that. sometimes the solution is not to be in their way in the first place. other times it's to put moves out above their head before they have the chance to jump.
it's good to try to trick people into rolling behind jiggs. sometimes jiggs players are really defensive (read: campy) and that doesn't pressure their opponent into making mistakes. if you go after them, and be risky, sometimes, then they'll start doing things like rolling behind you, sometimes. they will in one key moment feel the need to escape whatever you're doing, and go on the offensive.
and when they do roll behind you, chances are you were spacing bair or fair =P so now they're right next to you and you can react easily. this works especially well when they're at the edge, since rolling away from you (toward the edge) would be laggily putting them right at the edge vs. a jigglypuff, and no one wants to do that. they're more likely to roll behind you in that position there than they are normally. keeping that in mind you can wait for it and punish.
these things are hard to explain, though, cause they're so situational. but...try watching mango or someone playing puff, and focus your eyes on the space between the two characters. mango, for instance, will move at the other person more often than most puffs. for example...he'll fair behind them, anticipating them moving that way. enough things like that put the other player under pressure.
oh, back to your question again...i dunno why i type so much sometimes...i definitely don't think "he could do X or Y right now" because i can't think that fast while also playing. there's a background process like that going on in my mind, but it's never that explicit. sometimes i move before knowing why and it ends up being the best thing to do.
but general concepts are helpful, too...that's why people use them so often. for example..."this falco is moving vertically more than horizontally". which means they are not very mobile. which means you are, by comparison. so maybe wavedash back to grab, since their movement makes it easy to tell where they're going. or catch them at the end of their jump with bairs. if falco full hops and falls at you he's not in a very good position to space moves, since he has less area to move his hitboxes around. take advantage of that. this is a bad example, though, since falcos usually know better than this, and because he always has that laser =P
vs. fox...you might want to try playing more defensively =( i don't like saying this, but fox is fast and stuff...so maybe it would help. at least it will slow things down to the point that you can figure out what's going on. he can run in and hit you on anything done recklessly, so you have to be really careful. on the other hand...once you have him under pressure it's not so bad. but getting to that point is difficult.
i could probably ramble on more, but it's more helpful if you post videos. i find that this game has so much information to take in that once people really start to understand it they don't want to explain all of it =P which is a bad sign, actually...means i'm probably wrong about something i just said <_<
edit: holy ****
GeneralWoodman
Smash Lord
melee puffs need more dash attack and small pivot to f-tilt.
crouch jab crouch jab, small pivot, bait, double f-tilt frames, muhahaha
crouch jab crouch jab, small pivot, bait, double f-tilt frames, muhahaha
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Idea, we do a lot of the same things. We definitely need to play each other. I heard we're about as good as each other?
But I generally like the Fox matchup.
But I generally like the Fox matchup.
idea
Smash Master
no offense to blur, but i wasn't always trying very hard against him =P i don't often take friendlies that seriously. (i figure that'd be the only person for you to judge my skill level by). but yeah. come to my house or something. overcome parents johns.
Meverse
Smash Cadet
i don't like fox that much, but it feels so good wen u rest/gimp him
btw du u kno ne good ways how 2 beat peach? i don't lyk her...
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
Hi everybody.
Do you think you can take a look at my jigglypuff? I need another point of view to notice stuff I do wrong. I have some videos.
one of the general things I need to work on is basic tech skill (like, not jumping out of shield when i want to just tilt it up) and not staying in shield so that sheik can just run up and grab me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOU_qng04Q vs falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw4gp6q9-X0 vs sheik/fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-K-Y4Do0Rk vs fox
thanks~~~
Do you think you can take a look at my jigglypuff? I need another point of view to notice stuff I do wrong. I have some videos.
one of the general things I need to work on is basic tech skill (like, not jumping out of shield when i want to just tilt it up) and not staying in shield so that sheik can just run up and grab me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOU_qng04Q vs falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw4gp6q9-X0 vs sheik/fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-K-Y4Do0Rk vs fox
thanks~~~
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Mike told me we were about as good as each other. He said its kind of hard to tell, since he, Charles, and BlurR were the only ones he saw me play against. He did say, though, that we're about as good as each other.
idea
Smash Master
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I assume I'll lose, though. I have no experience... I believe its what I generally lack most. I've never done any serious Jiggs dittos before. We'll probably not Jiggs ditto though.
Meverse
Smash Cadet
bair. and generally be patient.
oh, okay. we'll see eventually then
idea: thx man, i'll du dat
restinpeace: serious jiggs dittos take ALOT of time, besides, it's just bair all day XD
du u guys kno ne gud jiggs stage counterpicks against marth and fox?
idea
Smash Master
what's a serious jiggs ditto <_<
fox: depends. if they're being defensive, small levels. if they're being aggressive, big levels. but it's mostly up to where you would rather play personally.
dreamland is probably good either way. oh, and then there's brinstar and mute city =P
and...most people hate FoD (especially falcons) but it's not bad for jiggs in any way i can think of. the ceiling is even fairly high.
marth: i dunno, actually. i usually go by personal preference. generally avoid yoshi's story because of tipper's greater killing power there.
again, dreamland is a pretty safe bet.
fox: depends. if they're being defensive, small levels. if they're being aggressive, big levels. but it's mostly up to where you would rather play personally.
dreamland is probably good either way. oh, and then there's brinstar and mute city =P
and...most people hate FoD (especially falcons) but it's not bad for jiggs in any way i can think of. the ceiling is even fairly high.
marth: i dunno, actually. i usually go by personal preference. generally avoid yoshi's story because of tipper's greater killing power there.
again, dreamland is a pretty safe bet.
- Status