Syde7
The Sultan of Smut
Apologize if this isn't the thread for this, but I didn't want to waste space & make a thread in and of itself just for this. But, been playing a bit of ROB, and I am torn on my overall grade of him. I've tried to take into account the Brawl version of ROB, as well as the new gameplay mechanics/physics. My synopsis is below:
Aerials:
Tilts:
Smashes:
Specials:
Throws:
Misc. Moveset:
Physics & Mechanics:
Overall Impression/Grade: Slightly better than (+2, if my math is correct) than in Brawl. As that relates to the rest of the cast in THIS GAME, at this juncture in the metagame I would say he is in the top 30% of the cast, but I feel a similar fate will befall him as in Brawl, where he will drop to mid-tier. Although, I don't see him going quite so low as his placement in SSBB, but around the upper end of mid-tier (or lower end of upper middle tier, if that's a thing).
Aerials:
N-Air; Buff (+1/10): I feel like it comes out faster. Comparable KO potential, similar overall usage either as a good distancing/spacing aerial (especially with F-air's nerf described below) or KO option (though slightly decreased, even at non-staled status).
F-air; Nerf (-7/10): Hitbox is out for a short period of time. Very small hitbox, seems to be the bottom of his claws/hands/whatever. Comes out just a smidge slower (it feels like). Lack of SH 2xF-air decreases this as an approach, and moreso as a defensive/retreat (the latter especially due to the lack of drifting available with the default control set-up if one is adamant about keeping smashes mapped to C-stick).
B-Air; Nerf (-6/10): Severely slowed start-up. Lack of auto-cancelling properties; the combination of this and the former making RAR'ing this dumb, which eliminates one option almost entirely from the character's metagame. Lacking large hitbox on the head. Slightly increased KO potential.
D-Air; Nerf (-2/10): Due to what I presume is the game's physics (as Wario's U-air suffers a similar fate), it seems you can't Run Off->D-air->Drift onto stage anymore, which could have so, so, SO much potential due to the lack of auto-sweetspotting in the game + the difficulty and/or lack of meteor cancelling. Does seem to come out comparably fast, if not a shade quicker.
U-Air; Buff (+7/10): Better across the board. Viable KO option, combos well. Solid move.
Grade:
Overall Nerf -7
F-air; Nerf (-7/10): Hitbox is out for a short period of time. Very small hitbox, seems to be the bottom of his claws/hands/whatever. Comes out just a smidge slower (it feels like). Lack of SH 2xF-air decreases this as an approach, and moreso as a defensive/retreat (the latter especially due to the lack of drifting available with the default control set-up if one is adamant about keeping smashes mapped to C-stick).
B-Air; Nerf (-6/10): Severely slowed start-up. Lack of auto-cancelling properties; the combination of this and the former making RAR'ing this dumb, which eliminates one option almost entirely from the character's metagame. Lacking large hitbox on the head. Slightly increased KO potential.
D-Air; Nerf (-2/10): Due to what I presume is the game's physics (as Wario's U-air suffers a similar fate), it seems you can't Run Off->D-air->Drift onto stage anymore, which could have so, so, SO much potential due to the lack of auto-sweetspotting in the game + the difficulty and/or lack of meteor cancelling. Does seem to come out comparably fast, if not a shade quicker.
U-Air; Buff (+7/10): Better across the board. Viable KO option, combos well. Solid move.
Grade:
Overall Nerf -7
Tilts:
F-Tilt; Nerf (-3/10): The range is reduced. Speed seems comparable. Knockback seems a bit greater, which sounds cool on the surface but I don't see F-tilt as a kill option, and used it in Brawl as a solid walling maneuver (defensively) or (offensively) as something to stun the opponent momentarily to start a string (such as a dash-grab, SH F-air -> whatever), etc.
U-Tilt; Neutral (0/10): Seems to be missing its small "side" hitboxes from Brawl, but I could be imagining it. It might be because players are better, but I'm not getting the 'standing U-tilt OoS when they are close" or "trying to run through me for a pivot grab" or "calling a roll toward me" options I was before.
D-Tilt; Buff (+1/10): Seems to have taken the place in terms of utility of Brawl's F-tilt, as I believe it actually has longer range than the Sm4sh F-tilt. Speed is comparable to Brawl's version. giving it a Buff status simply because of its perceived purpose in this game as opposed to Brawl.
Grade:
Overall Nerf -2
U-Tilt; Neutral (0/10): Seems to be missing its small "side" hitboxes from Brawl, but I could be imagining it. It might be because players are better, but I'm not getting the 'standing U-tilt OoS when they are close" or "trying to run through me for a pivot grab" or "calling a roll toward me" options I was before.
D-Tilt; Buff (+1/10): Seems to have taken the place in terms of utility of Brawl's F-tilt, as I believe it actually has longer range than the Sm4sh F-tilt. Speed is comparable to Brawl's version. giving it a Buff status simply because of its perceived purpose in this game as opposed to Brawl.
Grade:
Overall Nerf -2
Smashes:
F-Smash; Buff (+1/10): Seems a tad slower, if not comparable. Killing potential seems greater. Slight decrease in the extremity of the angles you can take with it. Better knockback & range making it a better KO option.
D-Smash; Buff (+3/10): Seems about the same speed. I like the trajectory it sends people. Actually a decent KO option in some situations.
U-Smash; Buff (+5/10): Comparable KO potential. Boosted by the small hitboxes on the side that pop the opponent up. A welcomed addition.
Grade:
Overall Buff: +9
D-Smash; Buff (+3/10): Seems about the same speed. I like the trajectory it sends people. Actually a decent KO option in some situations.
U-Smash; Buff (+5/10): Comparable KO potential. Boosted by the small hitboxes on the side that pop the opponent up. A welcomed addition.
Grade:
Overall Buff: +9
Specials:
Neutral; Nerf (-1/10): The range seems reduced. I remember being able to laser the span of the entire screen and then some before it fades. Unless I'm mistaken, it feels like this fades out after about 80% of the length of a standard FG stage (for reference). The aim seems a bit trickier, but that's just a personal thing and can be adjusted to. Recharge time seems just a tad longer (for baby lasers). Charge time for Big Laser is improved. However, the physics of the game + the angling mechanic seem to make it more difficult to finish of medium (leading into) high percent strings as well.
Up+B; Nerf (-7/10): Losing the ability to keep a gyro in hand and perform aerials cuts down on a lot of his options, both defensively & offensively, as well as mindgame potential. Its lack of horizontal mobility also saddens me, and reduces its effectiveness as an offstage. Looking at its vertical potential, its on par with some of the better ones in the game. Being able to use it several times via aerial cancelling is always a plus, but other characters have virtually unlimited usage of their ^B's and most other recovery options. Not being able to attack right out of the start (same as in Brawl) is also a negative.
Side B; Buff (+5/10): Anything is better than SSBB Side B.
Down B; Nerf (-2/10): I feel like it lacks the KO potential as in Brawl. Unsure as to how long it stays out compared to Brawl, but it feels longer, so that's a good thing. Range seems decreased. The big knock is the inability to cancel the charge in the air, but the rest of the cast being unable to do so evens that out.
Grade:
Overall Nerf: -5
Up+B; Nerf (-7/10): Losing the ability to keep a gyro in hand and perform aerials cuts down on a lot of his options, both defensively & offensively, as well as mindgame potential. Its lack of horizontal mobility also saddens me, and reduces its effectiveness as an offstage. Looking at its vertical potential, its on par with some of the better ones in the game. Being able to use it several times via aerial cancelling is always a plus, but other characters have virtually unlimited usage of their ^B's and most other recovery options. Not being able to attack right out of the start (same as in Brawl) is also a negative.
Side B; Buff (+5/10): Anything is better than SSBB Side B.
Down B; Nerf (-2/10): I feel like it lacks the KO potential as in Brawl. Unsure as to how long it stays out compared to Brawl, but it feels longer, so that's a good thing. Range seems decreased. The big knock is the inability to cancel the charge in the air, but the rest of the cast being unable to do so evens that out.
Grade:
Overall Nerf: -5
Throws:
U-Throw; Buff (+6/10): A true killing throw on par, if not exceeding 70% percent of the roster. Better combo potential at low/mid percents. I feel that the grab range + game speed & mechanics + ROB's play style makes getting this a bit difficult at times (especially if you blatantly fish for it), or else it would have gotten a higher grade.
D-Throw; Buff (+5/10): More combo potential.
F-Throw; Nerf (-1/10): Feel like the trajectory isn't as good for killing, but that's offset by its combo potential. However, there are better throws for combos, and kills. As far as getting them offstage goes, works great - though due to the decreased effectiveness of aerials, Up+B, (and to a lesser degree) lasers, I feel that it isn't as effective in the grand scheme of ROB's play & the game as it could be.
B-Throw; Nerf (-1/10): Same as above.
Grade:
Overall Buff: +9
D-Throw; Buff (+5/10): More combo potential.
F-Throw; Nerf (-1/10): Feel like the trajectory isn't as good for killing, but that's offset by its combo potential. However, there are better throws for combos, and kills. As far as getting them offstage goes, works great - though due to the decreased effectiveness of aerials, Up+B, (and to a lesser degree) lasers, I feel that it isn't as effective in the grand scheme of ROB's play & the game as it could be.
B-Throw; Nerf (-1/10): Same as above.
Grade:
Overall Buff: +9
Misc. Moveset:
Jab; Neutral (0/10): Not much to say. Very similar to Brawl, and works decently well with the game's mechanics/physics.
Dash Attack: Neutral (0/10): Again, not much to say. Small knock, possibly due to not having a hitbox on start-up, but that seems to be somewhat normal.
Grab: Nerf (-1/10): Seems about the same as in Brawl. However, it may be the sensitivity of the controller I'm using, or game mechanics (not 100% sure) but standing turn-around grabs seem a bit harder to stop from turning into dash-grabs. Couple that with the frame tightness of a perfect pivot into grab, and we get a slight nerf.
Grade:
Overall Nerf -1
Dash Attack: Neutral (0/10): Again, not much to say. Small knock, possibly due to not having a hitbox on start-up, but that seems to be somewhat normal.
Grab: Nerf (-1/10): Seems about the same as in Brawl. However, it may be the sensitivity of the controller I'm using, or game mechanics (not 100% sure) but standing turn-around grabs seem a bit harder to stop from turning into dash-grabs. Couple that with the frame tightness of a perfect pivot into grab, and we get a slight nerf.
Grade:
Overall Nerf -1
Physics & Mechanics:
ROB still suffers from that incredible blind spot beneath him while in the air at angles between U-air & F-air range (made worse by F-airs nerf) and anything below the bottom of F-air. Couple this with increased hitstun in this game and solid follow-up options from most of the cast and this still spells trouble for ROB. His weight + falling speed help mitigate this, but only slightly. Additionally, the lack of lateral mobility in his Up+B make stalling in the air above the stage, or moving backward/forward, or mixing up with b-reversed cancelled gyro charges to find a place to land makes this problem worse in many MU's.
On the subject of his weight & falling speed: I don't know if its just because I haven't adjusted to it, but these properties make it a bit more difficult to edgeguard with him, imo. Adding this to his nerfed F-air, B-air & Up+B most notably in conjunction with the trajectories most characters recover from and ROB's edgeguarding game takes a significant hit.
He doesn't seem to just get outright decimated (at least at this juncture of the metagame) by any character ala MK & a few others as in Brawl, (it looks like Diddy and to a lesser extent Rosalina/Luma could potentially fill this role later in the metagame however) so he has that going for him.
He still lacks KO options but far less so than he did in Brawl. You won't be killing before 140(ish) with him unless its with U-throw or U-smash, and you won't be getting as many gimps, imo.
Overall Grade:
Nerf -1
On the subject of his weight & falling speed: I don't know if its just because I haven't adjusted to it, but these properties make it a bit more difficult to edgeguard with him, imo. Adding this to his nerfed F-air, B-air & Up+B most notably in conjunction with the trajectories most characters recover from and ROB's edgeguarding game takes a significant hit.
He doesn't seem to just get outright decimated (at least at this juncture of the metagame) by any character ala MK & a few others as in Brawl, (it looks like Diddy and to a lesser extent Rosalina/Luma could potentially fill this role later in the metagame however) so he has that going for him.
He still lacks KO options but far less so than he did in Brawl. You won't be killing before 140(ish) with him unless its with U-throw or U-smash, and you won't be getting as many gimps, imo.
Overall Grade:
Nerf -1
Overall Impression/Grade: Slightly better than (+2, if my math is correct) than in Brawl. As that relates to the rest of the cast in THIS GAME, at this juncture in the metagame I would say he is in the top 30% of the cast, but I feel a similar fate will befall him as in Brawl, where he will drop to mid-tier. Although, I don't see him going quite so low as his placement in SSBB, but around the upper end of mid-tier (or lower end of upper middle tier, if that's a thing).
