Street Fighter IV *Super, AE and Ver.2012*

[Ken34]

i love my ps3, wouldnt trade it for a 360 ever, even though i was a huge halo head.

 

[SirroMinus1]

i love my ps3, wouldnt trade it for a 360 ever, even though i was a huge halo head.

yea i should of got a ps3.
the 360 is a pain in the ***.

 

[Mith_]

360 rules man.

 

[kong_korps]

360>snes>pc>wii>arcade>g&w>ps3

 

[Smooth Criminal]

360>snes>pc>wii>arcade>g&w>ps3

ur doin it rong.

PS3 > PS2 > PSX > SNES/Sega > Nintendo DS > Xbox 360 > Gamecube > Atari > Arcade > Xbox > PC > Wii

Yes, I dislike the Wii. Can't you tell?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Omis]

Guys stop this is stupid.

I think Ive decided to main Akuma and Gouken. However, Ive gotten alot of hate because of how much I spam with Akuma. When does it stop being zoning and becoming spamming?

 

[Champion_Link]

Guys stop this is stupid.

I think Ive decided to main Akuma and Gouken. However, Ive gotten alot of hate because of how much I spam with Akuma. When does it stop being zoning and becoming spamming?

It doesn't matter if its zoning or spamming. If it works, use it. Of course it depends on who and why you're playing. I don't use Gief that often against some friends of mine anymore cause they just complain, but if you're playing to win, it doesn't matter, do whatever it takes.

 

[Omis]

What is your BP? I want to play some matches with some diverse people.
If you want to play, my gamertag is jmshdmn.

 

[Champion_Link]

Sure! gamertag is aberunner07. Yeah I'd like to play with some diverse people too. I don't play ranked anymore, I've been having too much fun playing with some friends of mine . I rarely have an interesting or "good" match on ranked for some reason. Either I dominate or they dominate me, and it started to get kinda boring. I think my BP's around 2000 or so. I probably won't be online till tomorrow night. Hope to get some matches with ya in soon!

 

[trueganon]

I agree with Champ Link. No matter how you play, somebody will find a way to whine and cry about it. If you can keep doing somthing, and your opponent just can't counter it, it's thier own fault. Mute 'em and keep on going, thats my philosophy. That's why playing with good friends really gets matches intresting. You learn each others moves and styles, so you start to counter them and keep changing your own pace. The longer you play somebody, the more fun your matches are gunna be. At least thats how I see it. Also battle points dont really mean anything in terms of skill. I know amazing players who don't ever touch ranked matches so they have 0 points, but that doesnt make them any less beastly.

 

[Mith_]

I played with an arcade stick on SF4 for the first time today.

Sht was brutal. I got my azz kicked. But my second try I did a bit better. Still lost lol.

 

[CodeBlack]

I played with an arcade stick on SF4 for the first time today.

Sht was brutal. I got my azz kicked. But my second try I did a bit better. Still lost lol.

I prefer a good D-Pad myself, thanks to years of Playstation usage. Makes playing on the X:Box a test of patience though, it's a good thing my roommate has some 3rd party controller that actually has a reasonably good one.

I only have one friend with the game, so I play ranked all the time. I only ever play people who are ranked higher than me (it's annoying that so many high ranking people are spammers who don't really know anything else, but the highest ranked people I fight always legitimately kick my ***), so that I'm always assured a challenge. However, that makes my battle points somewhat lower than they should be. Meh.

 

[Dreadz18x]

Guys stop this is stupid.

I think Ive decided to main Akuma and Gouken. However, Ive gotten alot of hate because of how much I spam with Akuma. When does it stop being zoning and becoming spamming?

if used with purpose behind it and used appropriately its not spamming imo.
you are preventing random rush ins

 

[Mith_]

everybody in the game has a way to get around fireballs anyways.
some better than others (gief & cammy > fei long & rose) but there is always FA bulldogging lol.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

This is the NEWEST Tier Listing from Tougeki just posted recently, and is a more accurate representation, plus it also has added in the new console characters, so be shocked in some ways...lol, could this be the game in which Sakura "isn't" that great?

http://www5.atwiki.jp/koko100/pages/160.html

Just in case some of you can't see it...

1. Sagat - 139
2. Ryu - 132.5
3. Balrog (boxer) - 131.5
4. Zangief - 131
5. Blanka - 128
6. Rufus - 127
7. M. Bison (dictator) - 126
7. Seth - 126
9. Chun Li - 125.5
10. Akuma - 124.5
11. Ken - 124
12. C. Viper - 119.5
13. E. Honda - 119
13. Guile - 119
15. Dhalsim - 118.5
16. Gouken - 118
17. Abel - 117.5
18. Fei Long - 112
18. El Fuerte - 112
20. Cammy - 111
21. Rose - 110.5
22. Vega (claw) - 110
23. Sakura - 109
24. Gen - 106.5
25. Dan - 102.5


So in turn the New Tier List would look like this...

S+: Sagat
S: Ryu, Balrog (boxer), Zangief
A: Blanka, Rufus, M. Bison (dictator), Seth, Chun Li, Akuma, Ken
B: C. Viper, E. Honda, Guile, Dhalsim, Gouken, Abel
C: Fei Long, El Fuerte, Cammy, Rose, Vega (claw), Sakura
D: Gen
E: Dan


So judging by the last posting of Tougeki, I stated that Viper would not last up on top utilizing her tricks and it has showed with the new recent posting. Do we even need to talk about Sagat being #1? Also Ryu is as good as people are stating him to be, and just as I said earlier that with more time and as characters get refined in this game, Ryu will only continue to stay near the top (unless some character's are found to have some crazy stupid bs that just pushes them above him). Balrog being considered #3 comes as no surprise as I felt he was within the top 5 in my book anyhow, and good old Gief is still within Top5 being #4 so it's not that bad.

What I'm amazed at, and need to find more info is Dictator and Chunli surpassing Gouki, given the two are only better by 2.5 for Dictator and 1.0 for Chun, however interesting again, considering I felt he would have been #4 at least.

Noticeable jumps are Guile, last Tougeki list he was like 2nd to the last, however he's now in Middle-Tier once more...and LOL to all the annoying Guile players who were crying "he wasn't good" from last month, just goes to show how people live and die by a *** Tier Listing, lol. Look to most changing their minds and going "Guile is actually solid" now. Also Seth being where he is at, comes as no surprise, he's got GREAT priority moves, however as I stated earlier, he's played with a no fear, near flawless mentality which I feel is way too random, because nobody can play that good to unlock his potential. It's like Strider/Doom or Spiral/Sent if you play them "perfect" their lockdowns would be impossible to get out of, however after all these years only Clocwork and Duc have come close and yet its still a step down from perfection. However, since SF:IV is new, who knows.

Also, the BIGGEST surprise is that Claw isn't dead last, but Dan has taken his spot and Gen is now being considered 2nd to the last, and Sakura being that low? Most of the time, I don't believe I've ever seen Sakura that low before ever...just think back to A2, A3, CvS2 and you'll know what I mean.

Anyhow, hope you all enjoy, imo again, take this tier list with a grain of salt. However I will say this, the top characters for the most part imo will not be budging or moving alot, however from Middle-Tier onward, there will definitely be some movement.

Lastly, the tier list above even today shows just how balanced the characters truly are within this game, there is only a 37 point gap between Sagat being #1 and Dan being dead last. Compare this to SFIII:3S where the newest tier listing of Chunli being #1 to Sean being dead last has a 69 point differential. So the difference of the two is nearly dropped by half!

Enjoy, discuss guys!

 

[bob-charley]

... Well, shoot. I had thought Gen's standing might improve a little, this long after the game's release.

 

[Minato]

Thanks for posting the new tier list.

I agree with you with a lot of the points you made.
No way Viper was S/++, especially being right under Sagat? That was ridiculous.
Viper's good, but she definitely does not rank with characters like Sagat, Ryu, and Balrog.

It's strange to see Akuma dropping that much. I thought he'd still stay around S rank or top of A rank.

Too bad Sakura's not as good as Alpha 2.
She's just not good in this one.

Spoiler

And no custom combos for her in this game. LOL

And come on, Japan. Dhalsiim is NOT that low. I'd say he's between E. Honda and Viper. At least they're giving him some credit this time.

And hopefully players will realize that Seth and Gouken aren't "cheap".

 

[Champion_Link]

Too bad Boxer and Zangief are still S tier, looks the complaints I get from my friends for using them are going to continue

 

[Minato]

Too bad Boxer and Zangief are still S tier, looks the complaints I get from my friends for using them are going to continue

That's too bad.
The point difference isn't that large of a gap, so they shouldn't really complain.

 

[smashbot226]

ur doin it rong.

PS3 > PS2 > PSX > SNES/Sega > Nintendo DS > Xbox 360 > Gamecube > Atari > Arcade > Xbox > PC > Wii

Yes, I dislike the Wii. Can't you tell?

Smooth Criminal

No, YOU'RE doin' it wrong.

N64 > All

 

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

Big post about a new tier list

Since you're pretty in the know about this stuff, would you happen to know the source of this tier list?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pR79ttWA9f6-EfgT7eJcObA

I found that in a capcom blog yesterday, but the one you posted makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[Minato]

Since you're pretty in the know about this stuff, would you happen to know the source of this tier list?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pR79ttWA9f6-EfgT7eJcObA

I found that in a capcom blog yesterday, but the one you posted makes a lot more sense to me.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=177307&page=28

Just scroll down far enough (post #698) and start from there. Someone calculated the matchup scores and graded them based on that.

 

[Ken34]

Thanks for posting the new tier list.

I agree with you with a lot of the points you made.
No way Viper was S/++, especially being right under Sagat? That was ridiculous.
Viper's good, but she definitely does not rank with characters like Sagat, Ryu, and Balrog.

i can understand what you say, but how in the heck does she drop as far as being below dictator, chun-li and Ken!?!?!?!? what amazes me the most is Chun-li is above her....HUH!?!?!?!?

 

[Minato]

i can understand what you say, but how in the heck does she drop as far as being below dictator, chun-li and Ken!?!?!?!? what amazes me the most is Chun-li is above her....HUH!?!?!?!?

Chun Li's pretty good and versatile IMO. But I agree about Dictator and Ken, Viper should be above them (especially Ken).

 

[Champion_Link]

That's too bad.
The point difference isn't that large of a gap, so they shouldn't really complain.

You're right I totally agree with you. Trying to convince them that "cheap" doesn't really exist is hard. One of my friends is cool though he uses Sagat. Even I have a hard time not complaining about him

 

[Mith_]

On the topic of cheapness:

Instead of calling something cheap, is it ok to call it lame/gay/********/stupid/etc? Because Sagat fireballs/Cable being Cable/infinites/easy combos and stuff like that aren't "cheap" but they do get annoying as heck sometimes.

 

[Dreadz18x]

ggs khaos shine

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

i can understand what you say, but how in the heck does she drop as far as being below dictator, chun-li and Ken!?!?!?!? what amazes me the most is Chun-li is above her....HUH!?!?!?!?

I don't necessarily agree with the entire tier list, I'm still curious as to why Viper is ranked potentially that low. My biggest beef's with Viper is that she was always character dependent on tricks, and as I said earlier, these will only take you so far, unless they are so over the top powerful no matter "if" you see it coming that you simply can't stop it.

I believe it has two things...Viper players tricks are being found and countered, or else, something is truly whack with the match ups for her. However, her having difficulty up against Ryu imo is just a slight advantage in Ryu's favor, if you play the match up well, and know when to punish her and out footsie her. This match up can be in his advantage, however I feel it can still go either or, depending upon your knowledge of this match up, for me it's like a 5.5-4.5 Ryu advantage, but I guess great Ryu players can make it 6-4, rofl. Being a Chun player myself, I can assure you, Viper>Chun though in that match up, it's hard for Chun to stop Vipers advances, as opposed to Ryu who has the tools which can.

As stated earlier, I'm alittle shocked at Dictator's and Chunli's placement, however Dictator IS good in this game, and Chunli has been strong/solid. There's alot of factors, obviously the tiers will change again, and referencing to my earlier post I'll say it again.

The Top Characters that have for the most part been established, meaning the Sagat, Ryu, and Giefs will for the most part not move far from this spot, I'm pretty sure Sagat's going to be stay at #1. However, the bulk of the tier list which is the middle part will ultimately be swapping characters around potentially for sometime. Maybe Dic/Chun/Ken players are doing far reasonably better now that they've refined their characters gameplay as opposed to a few months ago. So many factors into this, however again, take this with a grain of salt.

Although Viper "is" ranked this low, I wouldn't think its as bad as it looks, she still wins alot of matchups, but her tougher match ups, like Gief, Rufus are very real. She also struggles up against Dictator, I don't know if it's 7-3 in Dictator's favor, I'm leaning more towards 6-4, however it has been stated by alot of Viper players that Dictator can readily hand her face to her. I know this much about the match up of Dictator...he controls the match up far more then Viper, because once Dictator gets his lockdowns and rushdown going, Viper can't do much besides block really well, and look to punish an opening. That much I do know, because she doesn't have a reliable effective defensive capability to counter this thoroughly.

The Honda match up stated in this newest Tougeki post is said to be 8-2 in Honda's favor, and to be honest again, I do not know if it's this bad, however I have been told by peeps in Japan that it is one of Viper's worse match ups in the entire roster. I've even heard other solid Vipers stated this as well. I've seen headbutts stuff out things that Viper relies upon, like c.mk int mp TK, you could substitute this with c.fp into mp TK. If anyone knows Viper, c.mk into mp TK is one of the Vipers best tools, however up against Honda...it's a no, no, and will get you killed flat out.

Only way Viper gets advantage is if she somehow knocks the Honda player down, however once Honda gets you knocked down, he can start going into his Sumo-Splash shenanigans as well, which Viper doesn't have a reliable counter against. However Viper as a character since her debut has always struggled up against all charge torpedo characters meaning Blanka, Dictator, and Honda in this game, and it's showing in this latest tier listing.

So overall , the match ups and ranking for Viper doesn't seem that far off. Again, I think her trickery is started to get caught on, and only really the best Vipers can really utilize this. Imo, even if you nearly perfect her potential, she'll be at best, maybe, and that's a huge maybe...Makoto lvl, however unlike Viper, Makoto had super bs that could lead to 100% stun and absolutely ridiculous damage potential+that crazy powerful command grab, lol.

I guess, I'm a skeptic in some parts, however that's really only within the middle of the tier bulk, the Top section, I can for the most part agree upon, although I feel Gouki has more potential then what is being shown here. Also, Gen being that low surprises me too, Claw jumping out of the last spot is very, very surprising since I still feel he can't do much at all. So yes, there are some things on the tier list I disagree with, but the majority of it is within the middle, which imo will be debated for quite sometime, because as we all know, the characters in the middle is usually the hardest to tier.

 

[Ken34]

I agree with her problem match ups, i can attest to them since i have the same problems when i play online. people like sagat, geif, dictator, honda(i really hate this one), and Blanka(just as bad as honda IMO) are a real pain to face with viper. but chun li, akuma, ryu never give me any trouble, if anything i get beat because they are the better player. and i cant say anything about rufus....no one really uses him online.

 

[Minato]

Imo, even if you nearly perfect her potential, she'll be at best, maybe, and that's a huge maybe...Makoto lvl, however unlike Viper, Makoto had super bs that could lead to 100% stun and absolutely ridiculous damage potential+that crazy powerful command grab, lol.

Yeah, Makoto had some insane damage output and stun combos.
She was like a very successful Alex, IMO.

As for the Viper and Honda matchups, I agree that it's a bad matchup.
While I'm not sure if 8-2 is really accurate, Viper does have a hard time out prioritizing some of Honda's moves.
I realized this since I was having problems with Honda's online.

The only reason I won those matches was due to me learning their tricks and getting pass them (when the matches were set to best of 3).

And I've never faced a non-CPU Rufus ever, so I'm dreading that matchup.

 

[Ken34]

yea, alot of the honda players online are pretty bad, but they still give me close matches, so that says something. i recall facing a honda player with 4000bp, i thought he would have been a great opponent, he beat me real bad round 1, next round i was able to get a grab and pushed him into the corner and got a perfect 2nd round. 3rd round i straight up beat him. but thats the problem facing any honda, is trying to get in, its tough if they space you, but once u close the gap, its anyone's game then.

 

[CodeBlack]

Isn't the consensus still that, despite there being a tier list, the tiers don't really matter that much? That is to say, the game is still pretty well balanced anyway?

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

Isn't the consensus still that, despite there being a tier list, the tiers don't really matter that much? That is to say, the game is still pretty well balanced anyway?

True, SF:IV at this point is still quite balanced, as to "how" balanced, only time will tell, the true SF game that has stayed very, very balanced throughout it's lifetime is still SFII:HyperFighting, no other SF game has ever touched this game in balance factor.

However, having a tier list is nice, because not only do you get an idea of the placement of characters, but also the match ups, which imo are really important, because you can get an idea of whom your character could potentially struggle with, and thus practice more against that character.

 

[smashbot226]

GEN'S THAT LOW? What, is it the learning curve? He's still a beast.

I disagree with much of that list. How the HELL does Fuerte beat out Sakura and Gen?!?

 

[CodeBlack]

GEN'S THAT LOW? What, is it the learning curve? He's still a beast.

I disagree with much of that list. How the HELL does Fuerte beat out Sakura and Gen?!?

I'm guessing that's a big part of it. Think of it like Red Steel: amazing game, but panned because it was difficult to learn effectively.

As for El Fuerte, I haven't played many good Gen players, but from my experience a good El Fuerte is all kinds of deadly, mostly because he's always in motion without being very predictable.

Then again, I've only played three Gens, and only beaten one of them. He's one of the characters that I've assigned in my mind as being those only really used by people who actually know what they're doing (alongside Chun-Li, Fuerte, and C. Viper), but that's somewhat separate; to me, it's not the tier, it's whether the player behind the character knows what they're doing, and how adept a player they are. Gen is a hard player to learn how to use effectively and, again, probably why his tier is so low.





In any case, I'm pleased by the way people are generally taking the tier lists for this game. Smash players take the tier lists incredibly, and, at times, ridiculously, serious, which can be aggravating at times. A balanced game, with a balanced distribution of players and playstiles, makes for a much more interesting game, with more and more challenges.

 

[Minato]

In any case, I'm pleased by the way people are generally taking the tier lists for this game. Smash players take the tier lists incredibly, and, at times, ridiculously, serious, which can be aggravating at times. A balanced game, with a balanced distribution of players and playstiles, makes for a much more interesting game, with more and more challenges.

LOL, I agree with you. I was actually thinking about that the other day.

SF people look at tier lists and say, "Hm... yeah, looks about right except for here or there."
Smash people say, "WHAT!? He's so low. I'll make him top tier."

 

[Dreadz18x]

3/27/09 ZP Toruney/Ranking Battle results


season 1.1 rankings
1: Big-5(Ryu): 15
2: vigilante08(honda): 12
3: ssj2jeff(boxer): 10
4: chris p(fuerte, Ryu): 8
5: dreadz(Claw): 7
5: hyperblast(Zangief): 5
7: andrew(Blanka): 3
7: maverick(Chun-li,Dictator): 2
9: JO: 1
9: benski: 1
9: chris redfield: 1
9: dark hokage: 1
13: czizzle: 1
13: sergio: 1
13: tony: 1
13: richard
17: heidern98: 1
17: sljj james: 1
17: john: 1
17: phil: 1
17: jesus: 1
17: matt: 1

 

[Champion_Link]

So I learned something tonight. When playing against friends/casual players, and you crush them, DO NOT attempt to explain why you beat them. The only reward you will reap is cries of "Nerd!" "No Life!" and "Loser!" I tried to help my friends out by giving them tips, and even going as far as explaining why my move beat out theirs based on frame rate data. Big mistake, they hate me now, and they said the only reason they practice is to beat me. But... being known as the best on the block is quite satisfying as well

 

[trueganon]

They sound pretty jealous to me. I tend to 'nerd-out' on some games and dive into all that frame data and every little aspect, but in no way does that make you a 'loser' or have 'no life'. It's a hobby and quite fun. Everyone has somthing that they know all about and can trump others in. I still have time for my job, going out with friends and socializing, getting to events. So ignore them and go into even deeper detail on how they lost cause they suck.

I've had such massive craves to play some Street Fighter now but I can't cause of my X-box red ringing. I havn't wanted to play the game as bad as I do when I dont have the chance to anymore. XP Woe is me.

 

[CodeBlack]

LOL, I agree with you. I was actually thinking about that the other day.

SF people look at tier lists and say, "Hm... yeah, looks about right except for here or there."
Smash people say, "WHAT!? He's so low. I'll make him top tier."

At times it seems more like this:

Someone uses a low tier character:

SF Player: "Hmm, this should be interesting. He'd better know what he's doing."
Smash Player: "Scrub. Learn to play the game or don't play at all."

One of those is annoying to deal with. The other isn't. Though, I will say that my only real exposure to the Smash community is this forum (people I know in person who play Smash aren't really like that, only on the internet).

So I learned something tonight. When playing against friends/casual players, and you crush them, DO NOT attempt to explain why you beat them. The only reward you will reap is cries of "Nerd!" "No Life!" and "Loser!" I tried to help my friends out by giving them tips, and even going as far as explaining why my move beat out theirs based on frame rate data. Big mistake, they hate me now, and they said the only reason they practice is to beat me. But... being known as the best on the block is quite satisfying as well

Think of it this way: their undying hatred of you will fuel their rage and cause them to train enough for them to be a true challenges. Then, your matches will be LEGENDARY!!! HAHAHA!