Strategy Pokedex Submissions

[0RLY]

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[A_man13]

I have some sets I've been meaning to post, but one of them really is kind of pointless and the otherr is reaper's baby, not mine.

 

[c3gill]

Dugtrio?

I didnt see a dugtrio in the Strategy Dex- so here goes-

Revenge Killer

Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Arena Trap: Jolly
252 attack / 216 speed/ 40hp
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Sucker Punch
Stone Edge

With an amazing ability and decent speed, Trio makes one of the best revenge killers in the game. Max Attack is a must, and with the given Speed EVs you will generally be able to outrun your opponents. Earthquake is a must, Aerial Ace is preferred over HP Flying. Sucker Punch can be dropped for Night Slash, it is situational. Stone Edge or Rock Slide is just personal preference.


Choice Trio

Dugtrio@ Choice Band
Arena Trap
252 Atk, 40 HP, 216 Speed
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Stone Edge
Night Slash

Basic Choice set, adding some power to Dugtrios Speed. Regardless, your Trio will be dead in the water if you score a KO and a Pursuit user switches in. A peg below the revenge Killer, but not a bad option.


doubles trio

Dugtrio @ Focus sash
40 Atk, 252 HP, 216 Speed
Substitute
Protect
Toxic
Earthquake

OMG WTF doubles trio, I call it. This one can come as an amazing surprise in a 2v2 battle. Main Idea is to use with someone who knows Perish Song. Dugtrio's Arena Trap keeps both of your opponents pokemon in the battle. Set up a Sub, and protect, and switch at the last second. Altaria seems to be a great matchup for this set, as it both avoids EQ damage and has Perish Song.


Extra Options-

As for Items, if you choose to replace the Revenge Killers Life Orb with another Item, you really only have 2 choices- Choice Band or Focus Sash. Choice Bands boost is nice, but Dugtio cant really afford being locked into one move, as switching in to any attack will generally OHKO. Life Orb is almost always better bet than Choice Band. Focus Sash is definatly worth considering also.

Regardless of Item, Dugtrio should be able to easily get at least 1 KO. He does have some big issues- though.

Focus sash- Easily OHKOed if spikes or stealth rock are in play. This set also is dragged down by Dugtrios lack of a decent attack stat. Focus Sash is for Dugtrio's pitiul defenses, barring the said spikes or stealth rock you will be able to take 2 hits. If Focus Sash is used, Sucker Punch is ALWAYS better than Night Slash.
Choice Band- Being locked into one move means that once a revenge kill is complete, Trio is a sitting duck. Dugtrio will probabally be killed by a pursuit user.

EVs-

252 Attack is necessary for all sets. Options generally are limited by your item selection:

Choice Band- 40 HP, 216 Speed. Outspeeds everything slower than base 115 non-positive natured. Goes well with Jolly.

Focus Sash- 252 Speed, 4 HP. with Jolly, ties for highest speed of 120 base pokemon- this is a must if go against logic and use Night Slash, as Alakazam will slaughter you otherwise.


Troublesome Pokemon- Pokemon who are of the Flying Type or have the ability Levitate avoid not only Dugtrio's STAB, but can freely switch out. U turn and Baton Pass can also aviod Trios wrath. Anyone with Ice Shard gets a special spot, as without Focus Sash, Ice Shard is basically an OHKO and goes first. Another Dugtrio or Porygon 2 works, if your Trio is CBed or CSed.

Any defensive pokemon will do well against Dugtrio- if it can take 1 of trios hit, Dugtrio isnt very hard to kill. Bulky anything or priority moves will easily kill dugtrio.

 

[A_man13]

Three things:

A) make sure you mention U-turn and Baton pass in the troublesome pokes. They allow any poke regardless of type and ability to escape dugtrio.

B) List band as the only option in the choice set. Dugtrio is one of the fastest pokes in the game (tied with Alakazam and sceptle), so no one in the right mind runs scarf.

c) you need a third set

Otherwise, I dig that diglet analysis.

EDIT: Re-read it. 2 really doesn't apply much any more.

 

[c3gill]

Three things:

A) make sure you mention U-turn and Baton pass in the troublesome pokes. They allow any poke regardless of type and ability to escape dugtrio.

B) List band as the only option in the choice set. Dugtrio is one of the fastest pokes in the game (tied with Alakazam and sceptle), so no one in the right mind runs scarf.

c) you need a third set

Otherwise, I dig that diglet analysis.

EDIT: Re-read it. 2 really doesn't apply much any more.

A) Yea, dont know how I let those out.

B) Scarf was my only 3rd set option.... UNTIL BAM! I was playing a doubles match and i thought a funny set up- and it worked!

thanks for the Uturn and BP reminders though.... /slap myself

 

[WouW]

This is for WuoW, since you never reply to any of my PM's.

BEEF UP YOUR ARTICLES. You are rushing them, going for quantity over quality. Go back and add more data/context to your articles. If anyone wants to get a hold of this guy for me and give him the message, that'd be great.

Sorry for being late, but first...

Yeah all right I'll fix that. Just be lucky that I'm actually responding as flaming the **** out of me is not quite the most motivating thing ever. Don't the Pokémon Researcher rules say

3. Edit and contribute- Your last task is to go through the already posted entries and every entry that is added by another Researcher and fix typos, add to the content and give suggestions.

ADD STUFF. SUGGEST STUFF. Your PM didn't contribute anything. Just "edit it, or stop posting". This sounds like flaming to me. Flaming = bad. A mod flaming = should not exist.

Next time you're going to yell at me, post constructive criticism, as you're not getting me much further with PMs like that.

And yes, I'm going to fix that stuff. Currently working at it. Also, for some things it's hard to get more that two lines of text.

Edit: Edited Azelf, the main point of criticism.

 

[A_man13]

IMO you really need to go back on all of your entries and fix them. Try and add stuff that isn't on smogon and or comon knowledge.

 

[WouW]

IMO you really need to go back on all of your entries and fix them.

Could you please read what I was posting and read that I was busy doing that god****it as well as read further and read as I posted, post constructive criticism. I don't know what to fix for a few things.

Try and add stuff that isn't on smogon and or comon knowledge.

Common sense is just functional.

And I'll post this again:

STOP POSTING THINGS LIKE 'FIX IT, NOW!!!!11. POST CONSTRUCTIVELY. POST INTELLIGENTLY. SAY WHAT I HAVE TO FIX. DON'T FLAME. OR ELSE JUST SHUT THE **** UP. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS FOR YOU IF YOU JUST KEEP GOING ON LIKE THAT.
Seriously, one more flaming post and I'm out of here.

 

[A_man13]

I'm not trying to be mean, but I admit that sounded very harsh on my part and I'm sorry. I'm just woried that this dex is going to be a waste of space. You don't have to be as creative as Pink Reaper in order to post sets, but at least try and add to the sum of the world's knowledge. Try expanding on your ideas so that people understand why certain EV's and moves were used and generally how to use the poke in battle as well as possible cons to each set.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'll be adding this new set to the TTar post but I was hoping I could get some input first:

BabiriTar

Tyranitar@Babiri Berry
Jolly/Sand Stream
110Atk/148SpDef/252Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge/Earthquake

At first glance this seems gimmicky, but it really is a force to be reckoned with if played properly. One of DDtar's biggest weaknesses is Scizor and it's STAB Bullet punch, KO'ing the beast before it can strike no matter how much speed it has. The Babiri Berry acts somewhat like the Yache Berry for Garchomp, allowing it to take even a LO Bullet Punch for only ~34%. It even survives an Adamant Choice Band Meteor Mash from Metagross taking 75% average. The Special Defense EV's allow it to reasonably set up on many special attackers like Jolteon, Zapdos, Rotom-A and Latias(should it be foolish enough to stay in on Tyranitar) Should scizor come in to try and ruin your fun he'll be sadly surprised to find himself both unable to KO Tyranitar and dead.

 

[zrky]

what does the Babiri Berry do?

 

[A_man13]

Decreases damage from super effective steel moves. He already gave me the tour.

 

[c3gill]

I'll be adding this new set to the TTar post but I was hoping I could get some input first:

BabiriTar

Tyranitar@Babiri Berry
Jolly/Sand Stream
110Atk/148SpDef/252Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge/Earthquake

At first glance this seems gimmicky, but it really is a force to be reckoned with if played properly. One of DDtar's biggest weaknesses is Scizor and it's STAB Bullet punch, KO'ing the beast before it can strike no matter how much speed it has. The Babiri Berry acts somewhat like the Yache Berry for Garchomp, allowing it to take even a LO Bullet Punch for only ~34%. It even survives an Adamant Choice Band Meteor Mash from Metagross taking 75% average. The Special Defense EV's allow it to reasonably set up on many special attackers like Jolteon, Zapdos, Rotom-A and Latias(should it be foolish enough to stay in on Tyranitar) Should scizor come in to try and ruin your fun he'll be sadly surprised to find himself both unable to KO Tyranitar and dead.

Babi Berry is a fail- your giving an amazing pokemon a terrible item to counter 3 pokemon MAX- I dont see it as worthwhile. Unless you plan on seeing a Scizor or Meta and intentionally switching in your Ttar(insane), I dont think its a good item to use. I think there are a multitude of better items for Ttar- and Scizor and Metagross arent his only worries.
Just my thoughts....

 

[Pink Reaper]

Since I've made Babiri Tar I've had 27 Scizors switch into me, swept 9 teams and at the very least crippled a good 2/3's of my opponents with it(Yes, I do in fact keep the number for myself)

for a full break down TTar has KO'd 167 pokemon while having only been KO'd 55 times. A ridiculous 82 of those KO's have in fact been Scizor and 33 of them were Scizors that had been KO'd directly after KOing a Zapdos/Jolteon/Rotom. Scizor is a ridiculous threat in the current metagame and something that will always beat it as well as multiple other OU threats is nothing to scoff at.

 

[A_man13]

Babi Berry is a fail- your giving an amazing pokemon a terrible item to counter 3 pokemon MAX- I dont see it as worthwhile. Unless you plan on seeing a Scizor or Meta and intentionally switching in your Ttar(insane), I dont think its a good item to use. I think there are a multitude of better items for Ttar- and Scizor and Metagross arent his only worries.
Just my thoughts....

Alright, comming from the perspective of someone who always uses Dragon Dance tyranitar on their team I know that Tyranitar is easily shut down by Scizor and metagross. Having a way to effectivly conter the best poke that you could possibly throw at it is something any poke would kill for to have and the berry gives it this ability. Almost every team nowerdays carries either a scizor or a metagross nowerdays so it isn't something you can worry about every now and then. If you DD on the switch to said steel type then on the next turn fire punch while they bullet punch, maybe 30% is tagged off while scizor is KOed in return.

 

[c3gill]

My thought was to show that you are ONLY countering 2 pokemon, or maybe 3 moves. While it is true that Scizor and Metagross are pretty prevelant, TTar only suffers a x2 weakness to steel. To see Babiri Berry effectively used, you can only expect to be SE hit by Steel. Tar also suffers from x2 water, x2 grass, x2 ground, x2 bug, and x4 fighting.

If you think that his steel x2 weakness is a worthwhile enough reason to throw a Babi Berry on your Ttar, by all means DO IT. But realize that Steel is not the only typing that gives Ttar trouble- he gets ***** by anyone using fighting moves. I am gonna go run some numbers on this, but as of right now I am of the opinion that the item is just too situational to use.

 

[WouW]

It's just that Metagross and especially Scizor are immense threats. Being able to shut these down is more important than having those other weaknesses.

 

[c3gill]

So I did some stuff goofing around on Shoddy-

tennisswmmr switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
c3gill switched in Weavile (lvl 100 Weavile ?).
Weavile is exerting its pressure!
Tyranitar used Dragon Dance.
Tyranitar's attack was raised.
Tyranitar's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Weavile is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Weavile lost 6% of its health.
---
Weavile used Brick Break.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 117% of its health.
tennisswmmr's Tyranitar fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Weavile is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Weavile lost 6% of its health.

Even after you DD, Weavile still outspeeds and OHKOs with Brick Break. Just did this one because I wanted to see how my weavile did against your set.


Tyranitar used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Scizor lost 69% of its health.
Scizor used Superpower.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 144% of its health.
tennisswmmr's Tyranitar fainted.
Scizor's attack was lowered.
Scizor's defence was lowered.
The sandstorm rages.


Against a defensive variant of Scizor. Assuming you both switch in at the same time. you dont OHKO with Fire Punch, and in return get OHKOed.


---
c3gill switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
tennisswmmr switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Tyranitar used Dragon Dance.
Tyranitar's attack was raised.
Tyranitar's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 16% of its health.
The Babiri Berry weakened Bullet Punch's power!
Tyranitar used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Scizor lost 108% of its health.
tennisswmmr's Scizor fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---

Your ideal situation. Best possible use of this item, as you shrug off the damage and OHKO.

I am of the opinion that the item is just too situational to use.

Might just be me, but I am staying on this one. I dont think it would ever be the main set used, but situationally this set is great. I would suggest you add it to the pokedex, but also note the reason for the item, and the specific conditions upon which it should be used- especially that a defensive Scizor will take your hit and OHKO you.

As for me, Im either switching in my weavile or dugtrio into your Tar. especially after seeing that weavile outspeeds and OHKOs, even after you DD.

 

[A_man13]

While I agree with you, no one with 1/2 a brain would let TTar stay in against anything with a fighting move and has a somewhat threatening speed stat. Even if you had a berry to cushon the hit, almost every fighting move (or at least the common ones) has high power (Close combat, Focus Punch, Superpower, Focus Blast, Cross chop, Dynamicpunch. Only somewhat common weak one is brick break, but very rarely is that used) and assuming no DDing most pokes that know a move like that are faster or defensivly minded (one way you can't scrape a 2HKO if you somehow survive the hit and the other ensures that you will have to be hitting hard to KO). To be honest it is a gimicky set, but it does its purpose (counter Scizor) and does it well.

One last bit of info you need to consider is the fact that hardly anyone uses non CB or SD scizor. They are just too good to give out on and from personal experience the bulkier the scizor the less and less it can do.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yes, Im aware that pokemon that Tyranitar CAN'T OUTSPEED AFTER A SINGLE DD OUTSPEED IT AFTER A SINGLE DD.

Spoilers, Scarf Heracross outspeeds it too, guess how much that matters?

Also, for that matter, has anyone, ever, in their ENTIRE life, decided it would be a good idea to max Scizor's HP/Def? Seriously? You'd do that?

c3gill switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
tennisswmmr switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Tyranitar used Dragon Dance.
Tyranitar's attack was raised.
Tyranitar's speed was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Scizor used Bullet Punch.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 16% of its health.
The Babiri Berry weakened Bullet Punch's power!
Tyranitar used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Scizor lost 108% of its health.
tennisswmmr's Scizor fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Your ideal situation. Best possible use of this item, as you shrug off the damage and OHKO.

Maybe you're not fully aware of this, but THIS(well, not this particularly since you're still obviously running Max/Max) is still the most common thing that will happen. You don't have to use this set, if fact you SHOULDN'T use this, or any other DD set unless you already know what you're going to outspeed. Max Speed TTar is made to outspeed +Natured Base 115's after a DD, Weavile, being base 125 is faster.

Once again, the reason I chose to make this set is because it's one of THE MOST LIKELY things to happen. I don't prepare for stupid **** that wouldn't really work because honestly, Im not all that afraid of a no attack Scizor.

 

[c3gill]

Maybe you're not fully aware of this, but THIS(well, not this particularly since you're still obviously running Max/Max) is still the most common thing that will happen. You don't have to use this set, if fact you SHOULDN'T use this, or any other DD set unless you already know what you're going to outspeed. Max Speed TTar is made to outspeed +Natured Base 115's after a DD, Weavile, being base 125 is faster.

Once again, the reason I chose to make this set is because it's one of THE MOST LIKELY things to happen. I don't prepare for stupid **** that wouldn't really work because honestly, Im not all that afraid of a no attack Scizor.

As for being the most likely thing to happen, well below 50% of all teams carry Scizor in the current meatgame, which means that Scizor switching into your Ttar is NOT the most likely situation(Simple math will show that an event happening >50% of the time is not the majority of the time, and therefore not the most likely situation). Actually, throwing Metagross in the mix with Scizor, less than 38% of all teams used them, in January 2009.

Your Tyranitar is going to encounter a Scizor much less than that stated 38% of the time, as you may win a match without needing to pull out Ttar, or you might kill Scizor before Ttar comes in, or your opponent may sweep you with another pokemon that you didnt expect. This is an extremely situational berry. Extremely situational. If you want to waste your item on assuming that Scizor is going to be switching in to you, then do it. But you need to recognize that people are generally going to be attacking your biggest weakness- fighting, which isnt an uncommon type in the current metagame.

And as for me switching in my Weavile- who would have thought I would switch in a pokemon that outspeeds you and can OHKO you? Obviously no one would ever do that in a real game.

Unlike YacheChomp, you arent covering your only 4x weakness, and your STAB doesnt cover every other weakness. (ideal item useage)

Statistics were taken from Smogons Shoddy records

 

[Niiro]

Could you please read what I was posting and read that I was busy doing that god****it as well as read further and read as I posted, post constructive criticism. I don't know what to fix for a few things.

Common sense is just functional.

And I'll post this again:

STOP POSTING THINGS LIKE 'FIX IT, NOW!!!!11. POST CONSTRUCTIVELY. POST INTELLIGENTLY. SAY WHAT I HAVE TO FIX. DON'T FLAME. OR ELSE JUST SHUT THE **** UP. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS FOR YOU IF YOU JUST KEEP GOING ON LIKE THAT.
Seriously, one more flaming post and I'm out of here.

*flames* gtfo now. ^^
But seriously, your the one that posted those sets, at least add some more calcs to your information, such as what outspeeds it, what are target speeds, and more in depth anylysis. Some actual calcs and numbers would be nice. I mean, come on, look at 0RLy's submissions, look how much longer they are than yours.

 

[A_man13]

As for being the most likely thing to happen, well below 50% of all teams carry Scizor in the current meatgame, which means that Scizor switching into your Ttar is NOT the most likely situation(Simple math will show that an event happening >50% of the time is not the majority of the time, and therefore not the most likely situation). Actually, throwing Metagross in the mix with Scizor, less than 38% of all teams used them, in January 2009.

Your Tyranitar is going to encounter a Scizor much less than that stated 38% of the time, as you may win a match without needing to pull out Ttar, or you might kill Scizor before Ttar comes in, or your opponent may sweep you with another pokemon that you didnt expect. This is an extremely situational berry. Extremely situational. If you want to waste your item on assuming that Scizor is going to be switching in to you, then do it. But you need to recognize that people are generally going to be attacking your biggest weakness- fighting, which isnt an uncommon type in the current metagame.

And as for me switching in my Weavile- who would have thought I would switch in a pokemon that outspeeds you and can OHKO you? Obviously no one would ever do that in a real game.

Unlike YacheChomp, you arent covering your only 4x weakness, and your STAB doesnt cover every other weakness. (ideal item useage)

Statistics were taken from Smogons Shoddy records

You certainly are getting pasionate...

If you looked further in smogon, you'd realize that scizor is the most commonly used poke on teams. Does that mean every team have it (no) but does every team need to have an action plan for it (yes). With Reaper's set, Tyranitar is running max speed and jolly, meaning that unless you are running a positive nature and near max speed (which scizor always runs adament) Tyranitar is faster. This is even faster if you you switch to scizor giving Tyran a free DD. You use a fighting move and you are baisicly a sitting duck, but using BP you get priority but you fall into the trap and die. And remember this is a special set for scizor only; don't bring other pokes in the discusion that aren't scizor unless you have a way the set can be improved while scizor is still at check.

 

[c3gill]

And remember this is a special set for scizor only; don't bring other pokes in the discusion that aren't scizor unless you have a way the set can be improved while scizor is still at check.

A special set for Scizor only? I am not going to start on how this shows why Scizor is Uber, ill go with the other, better arguement.

To honesly rate any Gimmick set, you have to base it on the needs of a team. More, The Gimmick pokemon's set must act as a filler for what the team is lacking, and what type coverages your team is lacking. This isnt the first time I have argued against Babi Ttar- check out Gimmick site- notice it under the "Gimmicks I have used"? This isnt the first time I have seen this set, and it isnt the first time I have argued against it. This was the first time I bothered to get on shoddy to run numbers on it- but i still think its a bad idea. Show me the team your using it on, maybe then I will understand your using it(PM it, id like to see it). barring a complete surprise, I just dont see Babi-Tar as a viable set.

 

[A_man13]

I haven't and honestly it is a bad general set. It's a counter set and it isn't efficient at killing at what it was ment to. It is a gimick and it will remain that.

 

[Niiro]

wow, quick attack scizor *****. somebody needs to make a decent set o.O

 

[A_man13]

You will still be facing the same old story unless you can negate the ability somehow. Too bad the only poke who can negate a scizor's technitian is *gulp* Rampardos.

 

[Zook]

You will still be facing the same old story unless you can negate the ability somehow. Too bad the only poke who can negate a scizor's technitian is *gulp* Rampardos.

Pinsir says "HEY! I got Mold Breaker AND I'm not a glass cannon weak to Bullet Punch!"

 

[A_man13]

Oh yeah, forgot about Pinsir. I was looking at rampardos for the laughs this morning, so yeah.

 

[c3gill]

Oh yeah, forgot about Pinsir. I was looking at rampardos for the laughs this morning, so yeah.

Rampardos + Focus Sash= 1 dead pokemon.

pity he can only use focus sash once :/

 

[A_man13]

True, but with speed investment and Rock polish it can become fast fast (and assuming no entry hazards or priority). Plus on a no Def scizor and max attack it does 1100 damage minimum on scizor with fire punch.

 

[Niiro]

rock polishes and laughs as scizor bullet punches. cries as scizor bullet punches again.

 

[A_man13]

Then don't waste the turn to set up then...

Are there truley anything that counters scizor 100% of the time? Technitian boosted stab priority hurts like sticking your hand into a wasp nest and almost every fire user will just love to boost heatran's flash fire.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Moltres could, if Stealth Rocks didn't exist.

 

[A_man13]

I actually was thinking of that moltres set from a long long time ago while posting. It's the only thing that can resists 100% of everything it can throw at it and Ko while it can't. With that you'd really need a spinner or wish support, though.

 

[Lemonwater]

Heatran is a very good Scizor counter. It will resist Scizor's STAB attacks and hit back with STAB Flamethrower or Magma Storm for OHKO (unless they switch, then you get a free hit). It has better typing than Moltres so it has a more useful place on teams.

If you worry about enemy Heatrans, use Earth Power on the switch lol

Brick Break can be a problem, but it's not a priority move.

 

[Niiro]

Heatran is a very good Scizor counter. It will resist Scizor's STAB attacks and hit back with STAB Flamethrower or Magma Storm for OHKO (unless they switch, then you get a free hit). It has better typing than Moltres so it has a more useful place on teams.

If you worry about enemy Heatrans, use Earth Power on the switch lol

Brick Break can be a problem, but it's not a priority move.

but if it comes in on a superpower, it is in trouble ^^
prediction ftw

Moltres could, if Stealth Rocks didn't exist.

quick attack **** you ^^ lol

 

[Pink Reaper]

A +2 LO Quick Attack will never 2HKO a 248 HP/148 Bold Moltres. Never.

 

[Niiro]

D=. no need to be so rude. what if i crit both times?

 

[WouW]

Then you're a god**** lucky *******.