Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[Darkurai]

There's one big problem I have with your third point: Kirby is the star of his series. Not Meta Knight, but Kirby. Why start with an enemy from a series, but not the character for which the series is named?

 

[xbrinkx]

MetaKnight's in because he's way too cool to be left out of the action early XD. Btw, don't you think unlocking a character at the beginning of SSE or Event mode would seem like a hook to start playing and getting more into it? Just seems logical that they'd do that. And since Sakurai's character is Kirby then they put them in the first parts. I mean c'mon, who doesn't like Metaknight better than Kirby? He's just too cool. Oh yah, btw, did anyone read SP's part about him telling non-smashers about Sonic in Brawl, then they said they wanted to play as him first? If not, re-read first post b4 saying something about none-sonic. If you're saying this isn't the starting roster cuz of a quote about unlockable 3rd party characters and Sonic in this starting roster, then I have two words to say for you. December. Third.

 

[Frogla]

The thing also wrong with this is what if you choose to play as kirby and dont defeat him. Not unlocking him, or what if you save peach and not zelda saving someone already playable. the game wouldnt force you to play as someone you dont want too. Really since there giving you a choice it should actaully be a choice.

 

[Flaminglink]

Kirby sucks thats why he isnt in the starting roster XD

 

[Gilgamesh]

I have another question to bring up (i haven't read all pages, so i apologize if it's been asked already)...

So, Subspace Emissary is supposed to be a somewhat medium to long game, kind of like playing through all of Kirby Superstar, right? The theory of fast character unlocking proposes that you enable Kirby right away, and could unlock Zelda if you save her instead of Peach. What's the reward for saving Peach then? She's already playable.

You might say "but Gilgamesh, you can probably just replay it and save zelda!", well, but if it really is a long game, you probably won't finish it in one sitting, and if it has story-changing sequences (such as choosing which princess to save) i don't think it'd be that easy to replay the same event, in the same file, and save Zelda instead. I think you will be able to go back to cleared stages, but you'll probably have to start over if you want to fight bosses again and face alternatives like the mentioned choice between princesses. Maybe it'd be awkward to start a new SSE file just to save Zelda this time.

Then again, all of this can be countered with "you probably get an option to unlock her later in the same file, if you miss it the first time"

But still, i don't think this will be exactly the starting roster. Don't have much to back it up though.

 

[Kooichi]

Awesome Theory, SamuraiPanda. I wouldnt mind having the roster that small, but I do have something I'd like to bring up.

"And it appears that this event will display the first ever public playable version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl! I am planning on having people play the game—but with limited character selection.

The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable."

1.When he says limited character selection, doesn't that mean it isnt the starting roster? It's a limited version =O

2. We he mentions Sonic it sounds like he is defiantly an unlockable. He could have changed his mind but I just wanted to point that out.


If someone pointed this out already then sorry XD

 

[heety9]

I'm almost positive this theory is false.

I know that you mentioned this, but look at the event match mode. The FIRST event has King Dedede in it. Sakurai said most characters are unlocked in SSE and if Dedede was a secret character, then event mode would have to be unlocked and I find that very unlikely. It also doesn't seem very plausible to unlock a character after completing the first event or first level in adventure mode...that's just really annoying.

I think SSE will kind of work similiar to how Event mode did last time, obviously the farther you get into it the more characters you get. I honestly think sakurai just reused the image from the demo because he didn't want to reveal the roster at this point in time and needed a picture. He knows about the internet and how they ruin things, so why would he post the actual roster and speed that up himself?

Ahem...most characters. That doesn't mean all characters.

And to the guy who posted the Simpsons picture, I got a spam warning for that kind of stuff.

 

[Zek]

I'm sorry but I think this theory is ridiculous. Your entire argument is pretty much based on the idea that we're not supposed to know who was in the demo and so Sakurai wouldn't show the demo roster, but in this very post he was just talking about how quickly information spreads throughout the internet. You really think he wasn't expecting the roster from the demo to be known by pretty much everybody? Even if the no-videos rule were followed, word of mouth would have told us who was playable. Sakurai knows that this is public knowledge. The demo roster was a limited selection so as not to reveal too much about the game, and it was re-used in this update because he probably wants to make a separate update for the starting character/stage select screens or they might not all be announced yet(Captain Falcon where are you?).

Yes, you can construct a complex argument to explain why theoretically there is some chance of this happening. But that certainly doesn't make it likely. There just isn't any plausible reason to believe that Sakurai would take the most basic of characters from the previous games and turn them into unlockables. Kirby was one of the original four characters shown. It would just be silly to force players to play SSE before they can have even the most rudimentary character selection in the other modes. Sakurai makes no hint that he's fundamentally changed the scope of unlockables, he simply says that most of them are found in SSE. I agree with you that some characters will be unlocked upon encountering them, but to say that about Kirby from the very first stage is going too far. I won't say that your theory is impossible but it's a pretty huge stretch with no solid evidence to support it.

 

[Shock the Hedgehog]

Where's the question mark character/stage slots?

 

[Brawler1432]

Sorry SamuraiPanda, you just don't have enough evidence to counter the evidence against that being the starting roster, I truly am 80 percent sure it isn't the real starting roster, using a piece of evidence given to me stating that they would not use the same roster as the demo can almost disprove your theory and to top that off if Sakurai has a starter character left to release then he wouldn't just show him in a pic, without introducing him, and thats just plain not Sakurais style. So I would say Sakurai would have good reason to use the Demo roster in the demonstrations on dojo, giving the theory against this a chance at least. But hey, I guess the real thing to make or break your theory is the upcoming announcement by Coro Coro.

Of course that thing u said about rapidly unlcoking would be awsome, but with stages and other stuff mixed in cause u'd unlock the whole roster in 10 minutes if they did that.

 

[Frogla]

I'm sorry but I think this theory is ridiculous. Your entire argument is pretty much based on the idea that we're not supposed to know who was in the demo and so Sakurai wouldn't show the demo roster, but in this very post he was just talking about how quickly information spreads throughout the internet. You really think he wasn't expecting the roster from the demo to be known by pretty much everybody? Even if the no-videos rule were followed, word of mouth would have told us who was playable. Sakurai knows that this is public knowledge. The demo roster was a limited selection so as not to reveal too much about the game, and it was re-used in this update because he probably wants to make a separate update for the starting character/stage select screens or they might not all be announced yet(Captain Falcon where are you?).

Yes, you can construct a complex argument to explain why theoretically there is some chance of this happening. But that certainly doesn't make it likely. There just isn't any plausible reason to believe that Sakurai would take the most basic of characters from the previous games and turn them into unlockables. Kirby was one of the original four characters shown. It would just be silly to force players to play SSE before they can have even the most rudimentary character selection in the other modes. Sakurai makes no hint that he's fundamentally changed the scope of unlockables, he simply says that most of them are found in SSE. I agree with you that some characters will be unlocked upon encountering them, but to say that about Kirby from the very first stage is going too far. I won't say that your theory is impossible but it's a pretty huge stretch with no solid evidence to support it.

Woah... this guy Wins the debate, the internet and a bonsly.

 

[IsmaR]

I say more unlockables=more reason to play!
Awesome theory SP.

 

[Llumys]

After some though, I personally think everyone on the dojo will be a starter.

The newcomers for hype, the veterans to please people (to make them feel familiar with the game.) Snake and Sonic should be starters for sales.

I really doubt that will be the starting roster.

 

[DekuBoy]

I don't care who is a starter. I CRAVE UNLOCKABLES

 

[EPX2]

I'm sorry but I think this theory is ridiculous. Your entire argument is pretty much based on the idea that we're not supposed to know who was in the demo and so Sakurai wouldn't show the demo roster, but in this very post he was just talking about how quickly information spreads throughout the internet. You really think he wasn't expecting the roster from the demo to be known by pretty much everybody? Even if the no-videos rule were followed, word of mouth would have told us who was playable. Sakurai knows that this is public knowledge. The demo roster was a limited selection so as not to reveal too much about the game, and it was re-used in this update because he probably wants to make a separate update for the starting character/stage select screens or they might not all be announced yet(Captain Falcon where are you?).

Yes, you can construct a complex argument to explain why theoretically there is some chance of this happening. But that certainly doesn't make it likely. There just isn't any plausible reason to believe that Sakurai would take the most basic of characters from the previous games and turn them into unlockables. Kirby was one of the original four characters shown. It would just be silly to force players to play SSE before they can have even the most rudimentary character selection in the other modes. Sakurai makes no hint that he's fundamentally changed the scope of unlockables, he simply says that most of them are found in SSE. I agree with you that some characters will be unlocked upon encountering them, but to say that about Kirby from the very first stage is going too far. I won't say that your theory is impossible but it's a pretty huge stretch with no solid evidence to support it.

For the most part, I completely agree with you. It really seems like you (SP) didn't use any concrete evidence to arrive at this conclusion. There are just far too many leaps in logic (I seriously cannot comprehend how you went from "Most characters will be unlockable via the SSE" to "Kirby will unlockable") for me to accept this as having even an iota of validity. I see no reason at all to make basic characters from the previous installments unlockable - while people may prefer seeing new characters on the default roster over veterans, I'd imagine they feel the same way in regards to unlocking characters.

 

[Santini]

Hmm... it's definitely possible.

And nice job putting the pieces together.

 

[GreenKirby]

Some may be, but you do know that he hasn't been a mod for long right? He's built up his own respect and made a name for himself as the offical smash boards translator long before his mod-hood.

And he makes a very good debate here, though I don't agree with it, I can still see his point. Instead of making allegations, why not discuss why you feel it is not true like the majority of us?

Also, I think we should give him a chance to respond to many of the points we have raised. Especially since a few are just repeated over and over.

I admit he does has good points, and he's a respected member as well, but his authority and power as a mod will means he won't get as much backlash.

Ax example would be the 'stop complaining about the updates' topics. When an average joe creates one, he's flamed. When a mod created one (MookieRah, I think) everybody was agreeing with him.

Anyway, I don't agree with his theory for reasons already said. (Kirby and Zelda being lockable, Sonic and Meta-Knight aren't. It's a demo screen. Nintendo put Sonic as a playable character on the demo to attract people)

 

[Big-Cat]

I think I have a good reason for the roster shown. The only reason we've been shown the E4All roster is because there are probably unconfirmed veterans in the starting roster along with possible newcomers like Krystal and the Animal Crossing character.

 

[Hejiru]

That can't be that starting roster, I thought Sakurai said third parties would be unlockable.

 

[BenB]

I remember a while back...in fact, one of the first few updates on the DOJO if i remember correctly, Sakurai said something about the character select screen. It was something along the lines of, "The character select screen comes later." This just screams, there will be a character select screen update IMO. In the actual update, he made it sound like it was going to be something interesting...not just the boring, white background, demo-like screen.
Sakurai CLEARLY takes pride in all of his work, and i highly doubt he would have something so boring, and unlike the previous games, for the character select screen. It just doesn't seem like something that he would do.
If anyone wants me to find his exact quote, I will try to find it. However, you should just trust me...and I'm sure many of you also remember this.
Good character select screen FTW

 

[Conner]

Personally, I don't think there'll be an Animal Crossing character, KumaOso.

SamuraiPanda, I wouldn't doubt that your theory is right. I think very logically, and I can't see 1 thing
that doesn't make sense in your theory. i just don't get why its called a Conspiracy Theocracy theory
though. If that was the starting roster i wouldn't mind, especially if we start with Sonic !!!

 

[The Director]

I agree that Samurai Panda has irrefutable evidence

Irrefutable evidence? Really? One of his arguments is 'a lot of people want to play as Sonic'.

I'm not aiming anything negative toward you, you actually agree with me on this subject!

And to the guy who posted the Simpsons picture, I got a spam warning for that kind of stuff.

LOL, that was me. I love that episode. Homer failed so hard.

I'm done arguing this. It's wrong. Hands down. Don't everybody be so quick to agree with him just because he can translate Japanese and he's on a podcast every week.

 

[Kevvviiinnn]

Why NOT make Kirby an unlockable? It's been done before. Captain Falcon is an unlockable in Smash 64, but he is a veteran in Melee. Making Kirby an unlockable is more like a "Welcome to SSE!" thing to encourage you to play the SSE mode they poured their soul into.

EDIT: Bah! I was thinking backwards on the Captain Falcon thing! Silly me.

 

[Ginger9001]

Meh. Still think that that is only the demo roster. :/

 

[NES n00b]

Ax example would be the 'stop complaining about the updates' topics. When an average joe creates one, he's flamed. When a mod created one (MookieRah, I think) everybody was agreeing with him.

I just have to say that was Ryokosaka. Not Mookie. Mookie does not abuse his p0w3rZ. >=[

lol, I am just biased, but it was Ryoko.

 

[Frogla]

I'm done arguing this. It's wrong. Hands down. Don't everybody be so quick to agree with him just because he can translate Japanese and he's on a podcast every week.

Yes i agree with these guy. If Panda were not a mod would everyone be so quick to be bandwagon, if a person with the title smash noob came up with this theory would we be agreeing or would we be flaming him.

Im going to define Panda's theory as Youko defines Gordo "it sucks". Its rather half baked and not thought thru.

Making Kirby unlockable is just not Smash like. Really im serious even if you do get him right off the bat from SSE Kirby will not be unlockable.

 

[Kevvviiinnn]

Well, Sakurai has been making a turn for the unexpected. I mean POKEMON TRAINER and freaking STAGE BUILDER. Who expected that? He's definitely changing the flavor of this Smash Bros. game, and for the better, too.

 

[Ginger9001]

Yes i agree with these guy. If Panda were not a mod would everyone be so quick to be bandwagon, if a person with the title smash noob came up with this theory would we be agreeing or would we be flaming him.

Im going to define Panda's theory as Youko defines Gordo "it sucks". Its rather half baked and not thought thru.

Making Kirby unlockable is just not Smash like. Really im serious even if you do get him right off the bat from SSE Kirby will not be unlockable.

I agree.

 

[Boofer]

Ahh... After looking at everyone else's opinions I honestly don't think there is enough to support your theory.

For some reason, this picture really stands out to me:

It's true that this is a new game and it might not necessarily be like Melee, but come on. The fact that Sakurai himself said that the roster will be limited, coupled with that melee demo screenshot nearly proves to me that the E 4 All select screen is not the starting roster.

And yes, I did consider that limited could just mean a limited version of the Full roster, but I HIGHLY doubt that for a couple of reasons: 1. It's obvious that a demo would have a limited version of the complete roster and 2. the melee demo also had a limited version of the starting roster.

 

[Nietendodude]

"And it appears that this event will display the first ever public playable version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl! I am planning on having people play the game—but with limited character selection.

The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable.

Oh, yes. And for those of you who come to play, please remember—you tap the Control Stick to do Smash attacks.

Have fun!"

Sakurai said this himself that is not the character selection screen.

 

[gigasteve]

"And it appears that this event will display the first ever public playable version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl! I am planning on having people play the game—but with limited character selection.

The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable.

Oh, yes. And for those of you who come to play, please remember—you tap the Control Stick to do Smash attacks.

Have fun!"

Sakurai said this himself that is not the character selection screen.

You proved Samuraipanda wrong. I believe this means a definite roster. ALSO, I found a pattern.
SSB-8 starters SSBM-14 starters SSBB-20 (this without unlocks and ZSS!!!)

 

[miztavcruz17]

this is a really well thought out theory and it makes perfect sense..but the thing is that i read somewhere that when you begin the subspace you have to pick either mario OR kirby..so that would defeat the purpose of having to unlock him.. this would be a good character select at the start of the game, but personally i dont think this is it..

 

[Flaming_Wuzzle]

"And it appears that this event will display the first ever public playable version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl! I am planning on having people play the game—but with limited character selection.

The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable.

Oh, yes. And for those of you who come to play, please remember—you tap the Control Stick to do Smash attacks.

Have fun!"

Sakurai said this himself that is not the character selection screen.

He could have meant limited as in not every character in the game would be in the demo. You never know with Sakurai, he's said tons of stuff in the past that had ambiguous meanings...

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Dictionary.com:

No results found for theoracy.
Did you mean theocracy (in dictionary) or Theocracy (in encyclopedia)?

 

[Kevvviiinnn]

... 1. It's obvious that a demo would have a limited version of the complete roster...

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/basic03.html

Sakurai has been known to state the obvious

 

[Boofer]

He could have meant limited as in not every character in the game would be in the demo. You never know with Sakurai, he's said tons of stuff in the past that had ambiguous meanings...

True, but don't you think "limited" hints at what he did for the melee demo roster? As in being a limited version of the starting roster?

 

[xbrinkx]

The Rumor Zoomer Theory... (Give me a better name if you can.)

You proved Samuraipanda wrong. I believe this means a definite roster. ALSO, I found a pattern.
SSB-8 starters SSBM-14 starters SSBB-20 (this without unlocks and ZSS!!!)

Ok, this is the last straw. I will not go unheard about this and I will make it clear. This is the Rumor Zoomer Theory. (I know sounds lame, but I wanted a name for my theory. THERE WILL NOT BE A BAZILLION CHARACTERS IN BRAWL! I assure you that there will not be over 40 characters in Brawl. I think MAYBE 35 AT MOST, 30 IS WHERE I THINK IT WOULD STOP, but I think that even the characters announced now would work. Here's the list that goes so far...

Brawl- 25 characters announced for brawl so far, that's including all the pokemon from Red and Zamus. If Shiek is confirmed than this would match Melee.

Melee- 26 characters

SSB64- 12 characters in 64

Now Sakurai has said in an interview that he wanted to get rid of the clones in Brawl. You get a lot less characters in Melee when you take away the clones. I think it's a bit less than 20. See what I mean? Brawl has all original characters and no clones making it more original and less excess of unnecissary characters. Don't you think that Brawl has a big roster now? If not then I'll go even further. For those of you who say there's a so-called "pattern" in character increase then you must've been tricked, either that or are just plain Smash illiterate. There has only been 2 games. Just because one game came out with a double increase of characters (not exactly if you rule out clones) does not mean that Brawl will have 62 characters or whatever! Unless, of course, you want clones everywhere. Lol, what a tier list that would make.

Oh yah, and as for the original twelve... It saddens me to say this but I'm not sure about all of them returning. The reason they were all added in Melee was because they were rushing the release. Hence the excess in clones. (Which makes me glad they moved the release date.) I'm sure Melee would've been a lot better if they weren't rushed. Anyways, back to my point. I think maybe a few may come back, if not at least one. (Hope for C. Falcon for Youko's sake.) And as for Luigi...

Well, to tell you straight up, I'm a huge Luigi fan. I love his appearances and his personality in games. But if he can't get an original moveset in Brawl then... He may be removed. (*Gasp* :O) I know he has like one move, but it's just not enough. Also with C. Falcon and Ganondorf. Ganondorf needs an original moveset or else he's gone or he's in and CF's gone, maybe both of them are even gone. 0.0 I hope for both in, Ganon with original moveset. Btw, if Shiek makes it in then that means Melee's been matched in characters.

 

[WaterToFire]

Ok, this is the last straw. I will not go unheard about this and I will make it clear. This is the Rumor Zoomer Theory. (I know sounds lame, but I wanted a name for my theory. THERE WILL NOT BE A BAZILLION CHARACTERS IN BRAWL! I assure you that there will not be over 40 characters in Brawl. I think MAYBE 35 AT MOST, 30 IS WHERE I THINK IT WOULD STOP, but I think that even the characters announced now would work. Here's the list that goes so far...

Brawl- 25 characters announced for brawl so far, that's including all the pokemon from Red and Zamus. If Shiek is confirmed than this would match Melee.

Melee- 26 characters

SSB64- 12 characters in 64

Now Sakurai has said in an interview that he wanted to get rid of the clones in Brawl. You get a lot less characters in Melee when you take away the clones. I think it's a bit less than 20. See what I mean? Brawl has all original characters and no clones making it more original and less excess of unnecissary characters. Don't you think that Brawl has a big roster now? If not then I'll go even further. For those of you who say there's a so-called "pattern" in character increase then you must've been tricked, either that or are just plain Smash illiterate. There has only been 2 games. Just because one game came out with a double increase of characters (not exactly if you rule out clones) does not mean that Brawl will have 62 characters or whatever! Unless, of course, you want clones everywhere. Lol, what a tier list that would make.

Oh yah, and as for the original twelve... It saddens me to say this but I'm not sure about all of them returning. The reason they were all added in Melee was because they were rushing the release. Hence the excess in clones. (Which makes me glad they moved the release date.) I'm sure Melee would've been a lot better if they weren't rushed. Anyways, back to my point. I think maybe a few may come back, if not at least one. (Hope for C. Falcon for Youko's sake.) And as for Luigi...

Well, to tell you straight up, I'm a huge Luigi fan. I love his appearances and his personality in games. But if he can't get an original moveset in Brawl then... He may be removed. (*Gasp* :O) I know he has like one move, but it's just not enough. Also with C. Falcon and Ganondorf. Ganondorf needs an original moveset or else he's or he's in and CF's gone, maybe both of them are even gone. 0.0 I hope for both in, Ganon with original moveset. Btw, if Shiek makes it in then that means Melee's been matched in characters.

I hate your theory with the fire of a thousand suns.

 

[JJJ.Brawler]

Ok, this is the last straw. I will not go unheard about this and I will make it clear. This is the Rumor Zoomer Theory. (I know sounds lame, but I wanted a name for my theory. THERE WILL NOT BE A BAZILLION CHARACTERS IN BRAWL! I assure you that there will not be over 40 characters in Brawl. I think MAYBE 35 AT MOST, 30 IS WHERE I THINK IT WOULD STOP, but I think that even the characters announced now would work. Here's the list that goes so far...

Brawl- 25 characters announced for brawl so far, that's including all the pokemon from Red and Zamus. If Shiek is confirmed than this would match Melee.

Melee- 26 characters

SSB64- 12 characters in 64

Now Sakurai has said in an interview that he wanted to get rid of the clones in Brawl. You get a lot less characters in Melee when you take away the clones. I think it's a bit less than 20. See what I mean? Brawl has all original characters and no clones making it more original and less excess of unnecissary characters. Don't you think that Brawl has a big roster now? If not then I'll go even further. For those of you who say there's a so-called "pattern" in character increase then you must've been tricked, either that or are just plain Smash illiterate. There has only been 2 games. Just because one game came out with a double increase of characters (not exactly if you rule out clones) does not mean that Brawl will have 62 characters or whatever! Unless, of course, you want clones everywhere. Lol, what a tier list that would make.

Oh yah, and as for the original twelve... It saddens me to say this but I'm not sure about all of them returning. The reason they were all added in Melee was because they were rushing the release. Hence the excess in clones. (Which makes me glad they moved the release date.) I'm sure Melee would've been a lot better if they weren't rushed. Anyways, back to my point. I think maybe a few may come back, if not at least one. (Hope for C. Falcon for Youko's sake.) And as for Luigi...

Well, to tell you straight up, I'm a huge Luigi fan. I love his appearances and his personality in games. But if he can't get an original moveset in Brawl then... He may be removed. (*Gasp* :O) I know he has like one move, but it's just not enough. Also with C. Falcon and Ganondorf. Ganondorf needs an original moveset or else he's or he's in and CF's gone, maybe both of them are even gone. 0.0 I hope for both in, Ganon with original moveset. Btw, if Shiek makes it in then that means Melee's been matched in characters.

I.. disagree with you to some point. I do not think there will be a "bazillion" characters, but there will probably be at least 40. I'm not saying there's a pattern... but if he really cares about what people want.. he would have MORE than 35.

 

[Boofer]

ehh...I doubt that Rumor Zumer theory...I think 30 characters is about as unlikely as 50, to be honest. That theory sounds like nothing more than pure pessimism.