Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[InvincibleAgent]

Ice Climbers should be considered to be in the same window as Kirby, seriously...

 

[flyinfilipino]

Sorry if it's already been said, but in the delay update, it seemed like Sakurai was making Sonic a playable character prematurely in the demo. It sounded like he was supposed to be unlockable. I understand that revealing Sonic is major hype, but it's possible that he planned to reveal him anyway but still keep him unlockable.

 

[axemangx]

How do we know if this is the demo that the developers used to test the games handling?


Dont jump to conclusions, SamuraiPanda.

Sonic is going to be unlockable =.=

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

How do we know if this is the demo that the developers used to test the games handling?


Dont jump to conclusions, SamuraiPanda.

Sonic is going to be unlockable =.=

It's a theory. No one knows anything for sure, so this isn't really jumping to conclusions.

 

[Chepe]

That character and stage screen were both screenshotted at a different time/trial than the later screenshots you know... Proof? Zelda, Snake, and the Ice Climbers were present in later screenshots!

My theory revolves around this scenario: Sakurai did screenshots of the different parts of "With Anyone/Basic Brawl" in one go, but used the final roster screen to select Snake, Zelda, and Ice Climbers. Since he obviously cant use a screen of the final roster on the update, he pondered... The starting roster might still have one character that hasnt been profiled, so the safest choice would be the demo select screen which only has revealed characters on it. Voila, Sakurai and company load up the demo and take the needed screenies and use them for Friday's update.

This is much likelier than Kirby, Zelda, and such all being unlockable and Sonic being default. Sakurai struggled with himself to put Sonic in the demo as apparent by the notice...

 

[freeman123]

Well here's why this entire theory is completely wrong. Why would he show something as major as the starting roster on an update without even acknowledging it? Don't you think that he would have identified it as the starting roster if that's what it was?

Also, Wario, Kirby, and Pokemon Trainer are all on the box art. I doubt that they'd put hidden characters on the front of the box.

I don't even think that they would show any hidden characters until they've shown all of the starting characters. I've never known any game to have hidden content revealed before all of the starting content was even revealed.

Sakurai even warns people to play Subspace first before going online if they don't want hidden characters to be spoiled for them. Why would he bother saying that if he's been showing us the hidden characters anyway?

I don't think that any of the characters that have been shown so far are hidden characters. I think that if/when they start showing hidden characters they'll tell us that they're hidden. If they have over 40 characters, then there will probably be 20 something starting characters.

 

[Boofer]

I don't think I'll ever be convinced that Metaknight's a starter, but not Kirby. "Coolness" is subjective, being the main character is not. The main character from every other series with at least 2 known characters is on this select screen. Consider us having Jigglypuff and no Pikachu, or Luigi and no Mario...

The choice between mario and kirby in SSE also seems to knock that possibility out of the water. If we choose Kirby, then how are we going to fight him to unlock him? For Zelda, if we save her, how are we going to fight her to unlock her?

It seems odd that we'd be given a choice between playing as an unlockable and a starter, or choosing to save an unlockable or a starter. For the latter, why would anyone even bother with the starter? I must admit, that this choice would be a pretty cool feature, but there really isn't any reason for the choice at all if only one option unlocks a character.

Honestly, I think the select screen will be similar to this, but it will have at least 2 more characters, and those will be Kirby and Zelda. This is based on the melee demo, in which those two were left out but ended up being starters on the real game. Hell, why not get rid of that unnecessary random box and go for 4 more starters to finish that row?

 

[Xsyven]

What a strange time to post a theoracy, when CoroCoro comics is unveiling the roster a week later.

 

[orintemple]

What a strange time to post a theoracy, when CoroCoro comics is unveiling the roster a week later.

I can't wait to see that.

Maybe the starting roster will be Mario and Kirby....and everyone else will be unlockable

 

[Fanewgie]

I can't wait to see that.

Maybe the starting roster will be Mario and Kirby....and everyone else will be unlockable

I'd love to see the starting roster as nothing but the original 8 characters. I'm all for tons of unlockables, as long as they make sense. Kirby, unlockable? lol.

 

[RikyuXz.~]

Oh, I have a semi-counterback argument for the conspiracy thoracy!

I believe everything SP said is totally valid. However, I believe they only used all the facts SP stated with the demo release ONLY. Think about it, of course the first character you want to play is sonic when you see his video or hear about him, but i think they oonly put it on the demo release so that people can play as those characters right away.. Of course the real starting roster could possibily be the same due to the fact of rapidly unlocking characters making the game fun, but this is easily still be implemented even when adding a FEW more characters. In conclusion, SP could be right but I believe they only used that roster for the demo for those reasons and the real starting roster will include the same characters but with just a few more added. I could be REALLY REALLY wrong on this so dont bash me. Of course this isn't a big bad comeback as most of it is agreement but I'm just saying those facts could've been used a differen t way but is possible they could use the "original" method for these facts but switch it up a bit by adding a few more characters or even possibly removing a few? o_O?

Your thoughts?

(Accidently posted this on the blog comments thread.. i'm pretty sure this is where it really belongs..)

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

While I very much like the theory, and I even thought it possible before SamuraiPanda said it, I have found something that contradicts it.

Go check out Names in Game Modes (second one on the list). The second photo has been digitally-scribbled out at the top, and it says the Character Selection Screen is still a secret...

Now recall when the Screenshot (Game Modes as well) was released. The "Submit" button was blurred out, and we were told it was a secret for then. When the Stage Builder update was announced, as well as Submitting stages, the Screenshot topic was updated but unannounced. Anyone who went back to Screenshot would have realized the picture had been uncensored, and we saw it was Submit, just like Stage Builder.

If the picture of the starting roster we just saw is the true starting roster, why is the picture in Names still censored?

 

[RikyuXz.~]

@magmar: maybe they were too lazy and figured that there was no point in going thru all that touble to do so..? not to rain n your parade or prove you wrong.. just answering your question

 

[EarthHero]

Someone did their homework. Nice observation. I agree. As much as I am looking forward to using sonic, I hope he is unlockable. If he were a starter, I would lose respect for him. You can't have amazing characters like Ganon, Mewtwo, Falco, Marth/Roy, and Sonic as starters. It's just not natural.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

@magmar: maybe they were too lazy and figured that there was no point in going thru all that touble to do so..? not to rain n your parade or prove you wrong.. just answering your question

I dunno, they went through the trouble of doing it for something as simple as screenshots. The starting roster is much more important. Lazy is also not really the first word that comes to mind when I think of the Dojo, since it's 5+ updates a week, with pictures and written explanations.

 

[SenorPresidente]

Well in the first trailer they showed Kirby, Mario, Link and Pikachu so it just makes sense for all four being the i guess "main star" be on the starting roster. If they had to make space wouldn't they just push DK aside. There is no way to know how popular they all are but from experience no one really seems to care for DK so i could easily see him being pushed to the side instead of Kirby.

Diddy kong seems to be more liked and too me has the most "cool" feel then DK. Yes this all could just be my taste on what i think is cool but it can also be argued the same for metaknight. So it just seems like they would go Kirby, Metaknight and Diddy instead of pushing away kirby and having DK.

 

[EarthHero]

I dunno, they went through the trouble of doing it for something as simple as screenshots. The starting roster is much more important. Lazy is also not really the first word that comes to mind when I think of the Dojo, since it's 5+ updates a week, with pictures and written explanations.

Exactly. When has Sakurai been lazy, other than that whole release date business. lol.

 

[Erimir]

having Sonic in the game is a HUGE selling and advertising point. It only makes sense that he’s playable from the very beginning.

If your idea is that Sonic must be in the starting roster because he's going to be a big draw for people to buy the game - then why wouldn't he be on the box art? I mean, you're talking about people who didn't go to E4All (or read about it) as if that's the general video game audience. Doesn't it occur to you that people who constantly check the Dojo aren't exactly the general video game audience either?

I mean, Sakurai told everyone on the Dojo about E4All - it's not like Dojo readers aren't aware that there is a demo version out there. Maybe they didn't play the demo, maybe they didn't read about it, but they definitely know that there are demo versions, and that Sonic was in the demo (but it was strongly implied that he would not be a starter at the same time). I think if you've only been reading the Dojo and you are remembering what was said, you would be able to realize that this might just be the demo character select screen.

So, like I said, the box art is the best place to put Sonic if they want to use him purely to sell games in that way. I don't think he'll be in the starting roster, because there's really no reason to put him in the starting roster as a way to get people to buy the game if you're not going to advertise him right on the front.

Not to mention that well, people are gonna buy the game even if they have to unlock Sonic. Sonic is a draw even if you have to unlock him. I don't care if I have to play a while, the fact that he's in there is enough for me. But I don't expect him to be one of the most difficult to unlock either (probably midway through SSE, I'd say). It'll be that much more exciting when I do unlock him. Why waste the biggest prize by having him available at the beginning? I'd prefer him to be unlockable.

And how sweet will it be if we unlocked 26 characters instead of just 14? Can you imagine how fast we’d be unlocking stuff in the subspace emissary? It would be awesome.

I do agree here - I don't want the starting roster to be 22 characters (Samus+Zamus = 1, same for Zelda/Sheik if applicable). But I figure that it'll be a little larger than Melee's (maybe 16, with some Melee starters being unlockable).

 

[EarthHero]

i def prefer him to be unlockable. he is my prize.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

Okay, so I can accept how Kirby isn't available from the start, but instead is unlocked in the very first battle in SSE...

But besides missing Kirby, the only really odd thing about that character select screen is having both Donkey and Diddy Kony as starters. Does Diddy fall in the same category as Sonic? That it has a big fanbase and thus people want to play these new popular characters from the start?

That's about the only reason I can come up with for having Diddy a starter. If that's not the case, then I seriously doubt that's the final starting roster.

 

[SmashZ]

First of all, we aren’t “supposed” to have known about the character selection screen. The Dojo is NOT tailored for people who broke down and analyzsed everything in the E4All demo, it is tailored for everyone else. So the normal response to that screenshot would be “Oh, that’s the starting roster.” Not, “Oh, that’s from the demo so it can’t be real.” They aren’t going to change up the character select screen all of a sudden. Also, it isn’t strange at all for the demo to use the starting roster.

The Dojo did have an update that commented on Sakurai's doubts about including Sonic in the demo, so it hasn't completely ignored the existence of E4All.

In the same update that revealed that selection screen, Sakurai talked about hidden characters and how they're going to be unavoidably revealed thanks to the internet and players might be spoiled due to online battles. If he was "spoiling" players already, that kind of consideration would be contradictory. If anything, I thought that update almost confirmed that every character in the Dojo is a starter, especially considering how Sakurai speaks about "revealing hidden characters" like a future event.

Besides, the official name for unlockable characters in Smash is "Hidden characters" (at least, in the American games, I don't know if that's a direct translation from Japanese) and that name seemed reconfirmed by the update. Characters featured on the cover and videos aren't very "hidden", are they?

And how sweet will it be if we unlocked 26 characters instead of just 14? Can you imagine how fast we’d be unlocking stuff in the subspace emissary? It would be awesome.

Huh... that would completely miss the point of unlockable stuff, I think. It's like all those anime fighting games. They often have many characters that are unlockable just because they wanted, rather than having any real reason behind it.

"Unlockables" are supposed to be some kind of achievement, something special. Beating the first match in Adventure mode (which can even be played between two human players, apparently) to get a starter from the previous game is hardly anything special.

 

[TaurToph]

Hey dude is that podcast so good?
I don't listen because i cant understand a thing.

I can write, read and talk in english, but i can't listen - its too fast for me to understand.

 

[A New England Winter]

December 15th, January 26th, and February 10 can't come any quicker...

Hopefully Red and Wario don't take forever to unlock, if unlockable.

 

[Bowserlick]

I have a feeling that Kirby is going to play differently. Metaknight took his throws. And now his hammer works differently. And his dash is different from the videos of him in Subspace with Peach.

So Kirby as an unlockable does kinda make sense. His B ability which will have over 20, maybe over 30 various uses is always fun to test out.

I am not completely sold on the theory only because of Sakurai's unpredictability.

 

[M.K]

Well, the only reason I hold this unto any credit is the face that Kirby (Sakurai's little baby) is missing. Maybe the fact that if...MARIO was missing, I would completely debunk this theory, but Sakurai is the person who created Kirby, thus he probably wanted him to have a greater influence.

Still, no Lucas, Wario, Dedede, Zelda, Pokemon Trainer, OR Kirby? A little much, really.
I don't buy it, sorry SamuraiPanda

 

[A New England Winter]

Well, this just give you more incentive to play through the SSE, now doesn't it?

 

[IsmaR]

Well, this just give you more incentive to play through the SSE, now doesn't it?

I wonder how long the SSE would take to beat??
Plus, do you have to beat it at certain difficulties to unlock characters??

As for the conspiracy, I believe this until proven false.

 

[Vadorojo]

Excellent read, SamuraiPanda.

I particularly like the Sonic reasoning: I was a member of the "he must be unlockable" crowd, but after reading your reasoning, I've switched sides. As you point out, he's too big a name NOT to be a starter: he has all kinds of fan-appeal and that alone will make people want to play him ASAP.

Sakurai himself might have hinted at his position as a starter before E4All when he said (in typical vague style) "The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable." Perhaps Sakurai was debating making Sonic a starter or not at the time, and the response at E4All helped convince him?

-----
Some added bang to your argument come December 15th?
If Sakurai has indeed revealed the starting roster by showing us the character selection screen, wouldn't it make perfect sense that CoroCoro comics would "reveal" the starting roster on December 15th? Perhaps Sakurai let them know that they'd be clear to reveal the starting roster by then because he knew he would have already posted the screenshot. We'll find out on December 15th, I suppose!

 

[flyinfilipino]

Sakurai himself might have hinted at his position as a starter before E4All when he said (in typical vague style) "The problem is Sonic. What to do... I suppose if we’re going to all this trouble, perhaps we should make him playable." Perhaps Sakurai was debating making Sonic a starter or not at the time, and the response at E4All helped convince him?

Some added bang to your argument come December 15th?
If Sakurai has indeed revealed the starting roster by showing us the character selection screen, wouldn't it make perfect sense that CoroCoro comics would "reveal" the starting roster on December 15th? Perhaps Sakurai let them know that they'd be clear to reveal the starting roster by then because he knew he would have already posted the screenshot. We'll find out on December 15th, I suppose!

Curses, you're probably right with all of that.

 

[Uchiha.Sanosuke]

I wouldn't mind if the theoracy was true. I love unlocking stuff, and I intend on beating Subspace before doing anything else.

Starting roster works for me.

 

[MajinSweet]

I think we are reading into things too much. If you will take a step back and look at this page...

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/index.html

Wouldn' those characters make the most sense for a starting roster? The amount of characters sounds about right with 22, (Samus+Zamus=1) and it just wouldn't make sense for them to be unlockable would it? We already have had updates for them and we know they are in the game. The point of unlockables is that they are a secret, the suprise factor. Think back to SSBM, did anyone expect Mewtwo? Marth? Falco or Mr. Game and Watch? Sure people probably made theory's and speculated/hoped they would be there. But did we know for a fact before the game came out? If there ends up being around 40 characters that still leaves a good 20 characters to unlock, it seems to fit if you ask me.

 

[IsmaR]

I wouldn't mind if the theoracy was true. I love unlocking stuff, and I intend on beating Subspace before doing anything else.

Starting roster works for me.

QFT!

Spoiler

10 char

 

[InvincibleAgent]

If your idea is that Sonic must be in the starting roster because he's going to be a big draw for people to buy the game - then why wouldn't he be on the box art?

We haven't seen the back, have we?

 

[Silent_X]

I think people are taking the boxart to seriously.

I'm still not even sure where the boxart came from,
and there's a great chance it won't be the final art on the box.

Also too many people are expecting everything in brawl to be like it was in Melee. Maybe you won't have to fight the characters to unlock them?(and by fight I mean the "warning character approaching!" fight)

 

[Kelexo]

ARGUMENT: Looks to me like the Subspace battle arena where Kirby and Mario duke it out is at the very beginning of the game, and you can obviously choose characters as we've seen. So, why would we be able to play Kirby from the very beginning of the SSE yet not have him unlockable? Same thing goes with Dedede and his event match.

Though I can see that being counterable, keep it in mind.

 

[00Elf]

The one thing that bothers me is the lack of question marks. In 64, all of the unlockables had question marks and in Melee, most of them did. I find it unlikely that there won't be any sort of estimation as to how many unlockables you have to go, especially with the removal of blatant clones.

 

[mattram08]

You make a lot of sense, but I'm still not crazy about this starting roster. Your points about unlocking characters very quickly make me feel better about it though. Interesting stuff here.

 

[PaperLink]

ok, so then this means he's already revealed unlockable characters? that's my only problem here. other than someone being able to predict Sakurai

 

[Flaminglink]

Yeah this theoracy cant really be debated it makes so much sense.

This theory is also right because Sakarai wouln't be using a demo version to show off online play, or the subspace embassary features. The demo was only made for e for all, in order to not show everything the game had offered. Why would he go out of his way to show a different character selection screen?

 

[NukeA6]

Metaknight before Kirby makes no sense. It doesn't matter if he is noob friendly. Kirby is the one who represents the series. It would be the same as making Mario the secret character with Wario taking his place.

I am 100% sure that we are looking at a placeholder roster and I think this theory is ridiculous.

Are you really serious about this? It is so obvious that this won't be the starting roster. Why is Pokemon Trainer, Wario, and Kirby on the boxart? You know any other game where they show hidden characters on the box or instruction manuel?