Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[Darkfur]

3rd event you play as Kirby too...

I HIGHLY doubt it's the starting roster without Kirby

You play as Metaknight.

 

[WeeklyJumpman]

Nintendo questioned whether or not they should include Sonic at E4all, and they wouldn't have done that if he were a starter. It's not the starting roster.

 

[The Director]

I'm almost positive this theory is false.

Look at the event match mode. The FIRST event has King Dedede in it. If he was a secret character, then event mode would have to be unlocked and I find that very unlikely.

A lot of people would say that you could unlock DeDeDe in the very first event match, but come on. Really? The very first event match? Also, you fight against Kirby in event match 3, so I guess you would have to unlock him in SSE before playing that match?

Here's another reason why this theory is completely wrong: I guess when you start the very first event match, the first thing you see is 'WARNING! CHALLENGER APPROACHING!' and it's DeDeDe? Then the same thing happens for event 3 with Kirby? Way too early to be unlocking characters.

The whole point of unlockable characters is that they're special. They're out of the ordinary from the norm of Nintendo lore. You won't be unlocking characters in SSE until halfway through atleast, and the same goes with event matches. There will be over 50 events, I would assume you'd start unlocking characters into the 30's or 40's.

Nintendo questioned whether or not they should include Sonic at E4all, and they wouldn't have done that if he were a starter. It's not the starting roster.

Finally, some rational logic. Thank you!

 

[flyinfilipino]

A lot of people would say that you could unlock DeDeDe in the very first event match, but come on. Really? The very first event match? Also, you fight against Kirby in event match 3, so I guess you would have to unlock him in SSE before playing that match?

Here's another reason why this theory is completely wrong: I guess when you start the very first event match, the first thing you see is 'WARNING! CHALLENGER APPROACHING!' and it's DeDeDe? Then the same thing happens for event 3 with Kirby? Way too early to be unlocking characters.

The whole point of unlockable characters is that they're special. They're out of the ordinary from the norm of Nintendo lore. You won't be unlocking characters in SSE until halfway through atleast, and the same goes with event matches. There will be over 50 events, I would assume you'd start unlocking characters into the 30's or 40's.



Finally, some rational logic. Thank you!

Jigglypuff unlocked by completing Classic mode just once in Melee?

 

[The Adder]

Can you imagine fighting against Pokemon Trainer? How could they twist the story to do that? I find it much more plausible that when you get to a certain part in the story, you see a cutscene with PT fighting, say, Bowser or something, and then you have to play WITH PT to beat Bowser.

I was listening to you (though I disagreed) up until here.

How would they work in fighting PT?

THE most evil being to ever grace Nintendoland with his presence.

How could they find a way for you to fight him?

Better question, how could any other character hope to survive that fight?!

 

[EggBomb]

grrrrr....I edited my post, but I guess not soon enough...lol. Here's what I wrote.

I know that you mentioned this, but look at the event match mode. The FIRST event has King Dedede in it. Sakurai said most characters are unlocked in SSE and if Dedede was a secret character, then event mode would have to be unlocked and I find that very unlikely. It also doesn't seem very plausible to unlock a character after completing the first event or first level in adventure mode...that's just really annoying.

I think SSE will kind of work similiar to how Event mode did last time, obviously the farther you get into it the more characters you get. Sakurai just reused the image from the demo because he didn't want to reveal the roster and needed a picture for the update. He said it himself that the internet ruins secrets and why would he ruin what he is trying to keep secret by posting the actual roster?

Think about it. Once the real roster screen comes out we are going to know how many starters and maybe even how many unlockables there are.

 

[Vadorojo]

The whole point of unlockable characters is that they're special. They're out of the ordinary from the norm of Nintendo lore. You won't be unlocking characters in SSE until halfway through atleast, and the same goes with event matches. There will be over 50 events, I would assume you'd start unlocking characters into the 30's or 40's.

Really?! Imagine this: you've got a starting roster of 12 characters and it turns out the final roster is 42. That's -30- characters to unlock. It doesn't have to be a super-special "I'm freaking out because I got a CHALLENGER APPROACHING" event any more. Sakurai can put DeDeDe as an unlockable character in the first event if he wants, and he may want to do just that if he knows that there's 29 more characters to unlock down the road.

It's particularly plausible that if DeDeDe is missing from the starting roster that he would be one of the earliest unlockables because we know about him from the Dojo. I would expect the same for characters like Ice Climbers, Zelda, Wario, etc. if they're not on the starting roster because we know about them. The only potentially difficult character to unlock I can imagine from the Dojo so far would be Snake since he's a special, 3rd-party case.

I think we've got the starting roster and a couple unlockables already on the Dojo, but I don't think Sakurai will reveal the entire roster, so that when we get the game and actually run into a NEW CHALLENGER that we haven't seen announced on the Dojo, it'll result in that special feeling everyone is so eager to keep. =P I can see it now ... "WOAH ¡NO ME DIGAS! YIKES I'm fighting Ridley in the SSE after 8.5 hours BOMBSORZ!!!"

Should we expect that special NEW CHALLENGER feeling 30 times? No. Some of them won't be super-exciting, like expected unlockables Jigglypuff and Luigi. So why not have 1st-Event or First-SSE-Match unlockables?

----
Note: for people hung up on the Zelda/Peach choice, check back on page 6 for my argument. =P

 

[Izaw]

Seriously does it matter if the STARTING roost looks like that or not^^? this doesnt "deconfirm" kirby or any1 . Theres nothin bad with that starting roster, will be funnier to unlock more characters lol.

I think Samuraipandas right tbh, but it's nothing big.

 

[SvartWolf]

Here in my land ther is a saying...

"Le estas buscando la quinta pata al gato"

translated would be something like "you are searching for the fifth leg of the cat" and it means that you are trying to discover something that doesnt ever exist.

I mean, would be the first demo of a game that actually showed the full starting roster .. i remember that when i played the demo of soul calibur II, you could only choose Nightmare and Sophitia, and another time i played the demo of a star wars fighting game for playstation where you could only play with luke skywalker and boba fett..

nintendo knows that the information of the demo of E for all has psreaded through the internet, and the really should be some idiots if they didin't thought something like that would happens, and actually, it was trough internet that one can see the daily updates of teh dojo, so it can be asumed that if you are interested enough in teh game to see the updates in dojo, you could also search information in other sites, and actually access to at least some basic information of the E for all demo.

Also, sakurai (or at least the translator in dojo, be cause i don't know japanese) stated long ago that the roster won't be showed at least not until near the release date (i'm not quite sure in where update) and if sakurai would show the starting roster, he will make an update for that, believe me! he has made updates for less! and probably will be something like this:

Update: starter roster/unlockable characters
(starter roster screenshoot)
look there is the starter roster blah blah blah blah

but wait, there si more, through the game you will be unlocking characters and having a bigger roster, you will suddenly see this screen:

(Screenshoot of the warning challanger aproaches with the shadow of a puffball with ears and a curly hair )

that means that you will have to fight that character in a stock match, and if you beat it, you will be able to play with him!

also, Snake (and maybe sonic) will be unlockable, thats why he isn't in the starting roster

I think that except for the 3rd parties, he will not be updating secret characters at least until the japanese release date, that could be why he hasn't updated more characters, ,maybe we already have the starting roster in the character section. (or if it isn't already complete, there are like one or two characteres more to be added...

the reason why that roster was put there was because it was used as an example for the online update, for nothing more. in fact, if you analyze that roster you could get to some interesting conclusion why some characters weren't included at teh time for e for all:

Kirby: some issue with the hats
Dedede: wasn't intrduced by the time of E for All
IC: maybe some issues respect the second IC A.I.
Zelda: maybe some issues respect sheik character
Snake: it's supposed to be unlockable, ,but sonic was added because it was recently announced and probably "everyone" wanted to play with sonic.
Pokemon Trainer: maybe some issues respect Stamina or what happens with PT in hazardous or moving stages
Wario and Lucas: Who knows why, maybe there was some issues with something (maybe their Final Smashes) or maybe because they didin't wanted t show everyone that was ready and this two wasnt so pupoluar like the others...

What i'm trying to say is that really that it IS the selection screen of the demo and yu are a bit paranoic or have overrreacted.

another saying:
"Estas haciendo una tormenta en un vaso de agua" TS: You are making a storm in a glass of water...

PD:wow, what a big post

 

[GreenKirby]

People are agreeing with SamruaiPanda because he's a mod.

If an ordinary member came up with this conclusion, he would be flamed.

 

[The Director]

Jigglypuff unlocked by completing Classic mode just once in Melee?

Note how you said 'completing'. Completing means you have to do more work than say, one event. Jigglypuff is the easiest character to unlock in both Smash games, and I don't think it will be any different in Brawl.

 

[blayde_axel]

People are agreeing with SamruaiPanda because he's a mod.

If an ordinary member came up with this conclusion, he would be flamed.

Couldn't have said it better myself. No. Literally. I couldn't. Tried, but I almost got flamed for it. lol.

 

[EarthHero]

Your right. It's really nothin big. But some people like to talk about it. So relax. I don't think this is the starting roster cause I don't think they would put a third party character as a starter. He has to be unlockable. The starter is most likely going to be a lot of returning members. It's only natural.

 

[KrystalRules]

i dont know about ya'll but i would love to unlock a character on the first event is SSE! and Kirby, as he said on first page, is unlocked in that event.

 

[The Director]

People are agreeing with SamruaiPanda because he's a mod.

If an ordinary member came up with this conclusion, he would be flamed.

No, I couldn't have said it better myself!

Oh wait...actually...I could!

Forget about just flaming. What really bugs me is that if regular Joe SWF user posted a thread with the exact same thing Panda just said, it would be Youko punched within minutes.

 

[blayde_axel]

No, I couldn't have said it better myself!

Oh wait...actually...I could!

Forget about just flaming. What really bugs me is that if regular Joe SWF user posted a thread with the exact same thing Panda just said, it would be Youko punched within minutes.

Well, actually, a lot of people agreed with the silly 3-0-3-0 theory... so maybe it would have lasted for a while...

 

[Izaw]

Btw did the Smash Melee Demo have all the starting characters as in the normal game?

 

[blayde_axel]

Btw did the Smash Melee Demo have all the starting characters as in the normal game?

Nope. No where near, actually.

 

[EarthHero]

It doesn't matter who said it. It's just a hypothesis. I am almost positive this is not the starting roster.

 

[Darkfur]

People are agreeing with SamruaiPanda because he's a mod.

If an ordinary member came up with this conclusion, he would be flamed.

Some may be, but you do know that he hasn't been a mod for long right? He's built up his own respect and made a name for himself as the offical smash boards translator long before his mod-hood.

And he makes a very good debate here, though I don't agree with it, I can still see his point. Instead of making allegations, why not discuss why you feel it is not true like the majority of us?

Also, I think we should give him a chance to respond to many of the points we have raised. Especially since a few are just repeated over and over.

 

[The Director]

Kirby wasn't in the Melee demo either, I believe.

 

[Izaw]

What is the very first battle in the Subspace Emissary? Mario vs Kirby. You unlock him in the very beginning of the mode.

By the way, I can't really agree with that, cause it shows clearly in that "SSE beggining movie" that you can CHOOSE between playing as Mario or Kirby. And I doubt that by playing as KIRBY that u'll unlock him.

 

[EarthHero]

Good point. We will just have to see about that. There's no way to really tell as of now.

 

[Spellman]

Kirby using the copy ability on Meta-Knight is going to be weird, mangs.

 

[The Director]

Kirby using the copy ability on Meta-Knight is going to be weird, mangs.

I hope he puts on a little MK mask when he does. Aww, cute.

 

[Eight Sage]

It could be the starting rooster, my only doubt is Diddy, he seems out of place there.

 

[EarthHero]

Yeah. What do you think he'll look like? Probably just as weird as when Kirby copied Mewtwo. lol.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

regarding "I believe it cause a mod posts" umm actually I am much more enclined to listen to Samurai Panda because of his previous assistance to the community, not cause he's a mod. there are some mods I purposely don't read LOL just saying...

I really hope Captain Falcon is among the confirmed soon.

 

[VisetheStompy]

Straight from the Show Me Your News podcast is my “conspiracy theoracy” (typo on purpose) that the screenshot we got of the character selection screen on Friday is the actual starting roster. I’m just making this into a thread for those of you who don’t listen to the podcast (but should) and where we can keep the discussion. I know I've locked a few threads in the past for saying what I'm about to try and prove because they never convinced me (mostly because they never gave reasons). Sorry about that. But at least feel happy that this thread will stick around.

As a disclaimer: I personally don’t want this to be true. But I think that the majority of the facts prove that it may indeed be close to the final starting roster, if not the actual one. The points I make are counterpoints to the reasons people use to “prove” that this isn’t the starting roster. Without further ado, here are arguments often made by people, and my counter arguments:

1. This is the same character selection screen from the demo. Its obviously for demonstration purposes only.

First of all, we aren’t “supposed” to have known about the character selection screen. The Dojo is NOT tailored for people who broke down and analyzsed everything in the E4All demo, it is tailored for everyone else. So the normal response to that screenshot would be “Oh, that’s the starting roster.” Not, “Oh, that’s from the demo so it can’t be real.” Also, it isn’t strange at all for the demo to use the starting roster. They aren’t going to change up the character select screen all of a sudden.

EDIT: When I said that, I meant that they won't drastically change the initial character select screen before the game comes out because now every casual player and non-American (remember, the demo update only on the American version) thinks they have seen the character select screen.


2. There is a blatant lack of Kirby...

I direct you to this quote from the Dojo that came with the update:

“But even without this mode, given the proliferation of the Internet these days, the existence of hidden characters is going to get exposed anyway.
So, this time I’m moving in the direction of not being too hung up on hidden characters.
You can earn most characters by playing through Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary. For those of you who look forward to those encounters, I recommend you clear this mode before playing Basic Brawl.”

What is the very first battle in the Subspace Emissary? Mario vs Kirby. You unlock him in the very beginning of the mode. Next match? Petey Piranha with Zelda and Peach in a cage. Save Zelda to unlock her. Sakurai is making the subspace emissary much more enjoyable for people to play by letting you rapidly unlock characters. Don’t you think its more fun if you unlock a bunch of characters while playing through it, instead of one every 2 hours? It’ll really make you want to play that mode, probably before you do anything else in the game. Also, think of the event mode. The very first event, which was already revealed, is DeDeDe and Bowser vs Mario. Beat that and you unlock DeDeDe. Sakurai is encouraging people to play all these different single player modes by having you unlock characters really easy/early/frequently, so that you play the whole thing through. In Melee, there were really obscure ways to unlock a lot of characters that most people would, and should, have taken a long time to figure out. But, because of the internet, we unlocked them all as soon as humanly possible, so there is no point in making unlockable characters so hard to obtain anymore (although there will invariably be a few that are very difficult to unlock).

Edit: This point is where most people have trouble, so I figured I would expand it a bit. By the way, keep in mind that Kirby COULD be on the final starting roster. When Melee's "starting roster" was revealed (via demo), it didn't have Kirby or Zelda, which became starters when the game was released. So this point could be moot.

2.5a You can select Kirby in the first battle in the subspace emissary instead of fighting against him

As others have already pointed out, this game is not 64, nor is it Melee. This is 6 years after the originals were made. So why do you assume you have to battle against the person you're about to unlock? I could easily see you having to win this battle with either Mario or Kirby (who could go on to fight Petey?) to unlock Kirby. Can you imagine fighting against Pokemon Trainer? How could they twist the story to do that? I find it much more plausible that when you get to a certain part in the story, you see a cutscene with PT fighting, say, Bowser or something, and then you have to play WITH PT to beat Bowser. PT could be unlocked as soon as you play with him, or he could be unlocked when you beat that match.

Also, remember that SSE is Co-Op. I think it would be boring for the second player if only the first player could fight every time there is a 1v1. So how do you get the second player involved? You can't just make the 1v1 a 2v1 whenever you're playing Co-Op, so maybe Sakurai just wanted 2 players to be able to play at the same time throughout most of the SSE (remember, you get your second teammate really early in the game, as Kirby gets one after beating Petey, and Mario meets Pit immediately). But the only way to do let 2 players play in the first match is by letting the players choose who they want.

2.5b Peach is on the starting roster, so why not Zelda?

This may be a bit tough for people to get, but it makes perfect sense to me. When you are going to battle Petey Piranah, do you know which princess you want to save? Do you even care? Frankly, I think most people (like myself) don't care which princess they save. It simply doesn't matter either way. But wait, what if you could unlock them? Well, it still wouldn't matter since you'll have to do both at some time or the other. But what if only ONE was unlockable? That is more than enough incentive for me to want that unlockable one. Badly. And honestly, I think it would be alot more fun if you actually cared which cage you opened.


3. No Kirby, but Metaknight? Yeah right.
There is no way you can have only veterans in the starting roster, that’s ridiculous. You have to include newcomers. So who do you include? Well, if I were Sakurai, I would try to include at least one really cool, fun to play, unique, and noob-friendly character. One person that fits this perfectly is Metaknight. He is freaking awesome. How many people, who didn’t know/care about Metaknight before SSBB have fallen in love with how cool he is? Including him in the starting roster would make sense. Especially since its so easy to unlock Kirby anyways. Plus, you may meet him much later in the emissary, which is a good reason to have him unlocked from the start since he is so appealing to new players.

EDIT: Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying he would be a starter because he is popular. I'm saying he would be a starter because he has alot of "WOW" factor, meaning people who are looking forward to really different characters from Melee would enjoy playing Metaknight alot because of his originality, overall coolness, etc.


4. Sonic? Sakurai said he’ll be an unlockable! And why is there no Snake?!?
Yes, I know. I did the translation where he said 3rd party characters will be unlockable. But probably one of the reasons they never officially translated the blog into English was because everything he said is subject to change. Whenever I talk to casual smashers (and many hardcore ones too) about SSBB, and I mention Sonic is in the game, you know what they say? “Oh man, that is the FIRST character I’m playing with.” I’ve gotten that response incredibly often. Plus, having Sonic in the game is a HUGE selling and advertising point. It only makes sense that he’s playable from the very beginning. Snake, on the other hand, is not nearly as “huge” to the SSBB series, or to fans worldwide as Sonic. Comparing the two would be silly.


5. There is no way they can fit many more characters on that select screen.
Same with the stage selection screen. But is it really that difficult to imagine it zooming out when you unlock a certain amount? Do you think they can’t simply make the icons move places or rearrange? There are hundreds of things they can do besides the silly idea of squeezing everything into the available space there. That argument doesn’t mean anything. And how sweet will it be if we unlocked 26 characters instead of just 14? Can you imagine how fast we’d be unlocking stuff in the subspace emissary? It would be awesome.



Try to be open minded with this, and don’t just say “you’re wrong because I don’t want this to be true although I can’t prove you wrong.” I don’t want it to be true just as much as you guys do, but I don’t see any gaping flaws in what I’ve said. If someone can try to prove me wrong through logic and reasoning, then by all means go ahead (keep in mind, it may take me awhile to answer you guys as I have my finals this week). Until that happens, it looks like we may already have our starting roster.


-------------------------------


Some new counterpoints were stated after the podcast was released. I don’t believe any of them are strong enough to counter my argument, but they are worth point out:





Actually, Pikachu was in the middle of Mario and Bowser before you unlocked secret characters in Melee. So rearranging the character select screen has been already done in Melee. I guess that actually strengthens my argument ^_^''





Other than the counter points you already stated yourself, newcomers are the selling point of SSBB. If the game had exactly the same characters as Melee, not nearly as many people would care about it. If they want to sell the game even better than it already will, then advertising their newcomers are a great way to do it. And yes, I agree, nothing is truly confirmed until the Dojo announces it.





Well, that is just opinion, and I can’t really prove opinion wrong :D But I can say that it has been 6 years since Melee came out. Maybe Sakurai wants to give us a new experience at first. I know that I’d enjoy that.





Agreed.





Easy, he can just say “then you go straight to the character selection screen!” There is no reason to show it. He does that often in Dojo updates, which makes me think he purposefully wanted to reveal the starting roster (plus, I don’t think he can justify a whole update for the starting roster).

EDIT: I think many of you are focusing on details that are too small. I misstated an aside comment I made above and was torn apart for it. What I meant to say was more along the lines of "plus, this is the best kind of update to show us the starting roster, because the update would be much harder to understand without actually seeing what they're talking about."




I agree that the little details are aimed towards us. Things like attacks, taunts, etc. But something like the character selection screen is a BIG detail that even the least analytical Dojo reader will be able to catch.



True. But what other starting roster is “reasonable,” other than all the characters currently revealed being starters?

So if I am understanding your thinking here correctly, those who see this screen on the Dojo who did not know about the demo will logically assume this is close to the starter roster.

Then logically those who saw this screen shot will assume this is icon screen you will have when going online for friends mode

Now personally I don't want thos to be true, but the majority of the facts say this may indeed be the starting friends mode icon screen, if not close to it. Now Im not saying it couldn't change, it just won't change dramatically.

No wonder Sakurai doesn't want people going online, 8 hidden charachters are spoiled off the bat even before starting. Now granted the Mii's will be different for other people. Also, some of the starting roster is also missing in the icon screen, but Im sure Sakurai has a reason to keep them hidden.

 

[Rx-]

I agree that Samurai Panda has irrefutable evidence, but I still don't believe this would be the starting roster. It's so unusual-looking. I might sound like a troll, but even if Sakurai knocked on my door to come tell me that Sonic was part of the starting roster, I'd have to see it for myself to believe it.

 

[Super Smash Master]

They probably haven't reveiled all the starters yet. That's why they used the demo screen. Keep in mind, they didn't have Zelda, Kirby or the Ice Climbers in the melee demo. Sound familiar? It's because they all have special qualities. This is the same most likely with Red. I dunno why Lucas or Wario weren't in the demo though.

 

[KrystalRules]

because Lucas has alot of unique qualites! (most of them i dont like at all) and Wario is an odd character

 

[Masque]

Kirby wasn't in the Melee demo either, I believe.

Correct, sir.

Then logically those who saw this screen shot will assume this is icon screen you will have when going online for friends mode

Now personally I don't want this to be true, but the majority of the facts say this may indeed be the starting friends mode icon screen, if not close to it. Now Im not saying it couldn't change, it just won't change dramatically.

No wonder Sakurai doesn't want people going online, 8 hidden charachters are spoiled off the bat even before starting. Now granted the Mii's will be different for other people. Also, some of the starting roster is also missing in the icon screen, but Im sure Sakurai has a reason to keep them hidden.

Or maybe you just found a nice piece of pictorial evidence that could refute the "theoracy."

(That was for Mic. )

Wario, IC, Zelda, Kirby, etc. are on the picture that you posted, all of whom are absent from the E4All select screen. Likewise, Sonic--a key figure on said select screen--is absent from that list of icons. Granted, the date of the "icons picture" precedes Sonic's announcement, but they could just as easily have blurred his icon out, or filled it in with a color, etc. The fact remains, though, that there is a direct discrepancy between the characters shown on these to pictures.

because Lucas has alot of unique qualites! (most of them i dont like at all) and Wario is an odd character

Or maybe because people would realize that Lucas' Special Moves are almost the same as Ness's and would immediately conclude that Ness is out before Sakurai et al. wanted them to know.

 

[Loranga]

i think the starting rooster is the characters on the game cover. seems likley, in ssbm it was. think there were an additional extra two characters or so.......thats what i think

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/SSBB_Cover.jpg

 

[blayde_axel]

i think the starting rooster is the characters on the game cover. seems likley, in ssbm it was. think there were an additional extra two characters or so.......thats what i think

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/SSBB_Cover.jpg

Sorry to be a stickler, but it's roster, not rooster. lol. But yeah, I'm sure the people on the cover will be part of the starters.

 

[Kendra]

Isn't that the beta roster though?
And ofcourse; weren't all 3rd party unlockable?

 

[KrystalRules]

Or maybe because people would realize that Lucas' Special Moves are almost the same as Ness's and would immediately conclude that Ness is out before Sakurai et al. wanted them to know.

yeah i got what i want(Ness out) and got what i didnt want it(Another Ness kinda player)

 

[Chi's Finest]

People are agreeing with SamruaiPanda because he's a mod.

If an ordinary member came up with this conclusion, he would be flamed.

That's actually kind of true....

I think the icon screen has the whole starting roster right there. With maybe Lucas included. And MAYBE 3D.

 

[Frogla]

i think Panda's evidence is so so. IT cant be correct until they announce it, but does sound good in theory.

 

[Mario161]

Intresting theory. It is more plausible then other theories I have heard/read.