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Starcraft Discussion

choknater

choknater

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choknater
Do you guys use bwchart or programs like that to take objective/numerical looks at your replays? What do you guys think of APM as a measure of skill? Much like tech skill in smash, I've faced players with high APM's but terrible macro/decision making, but efficient use of a high APM is very scary to face.

When I look at replays, the higher APM players generally tend to do better and I want to somehow improve my use of hotkeys... I'm not very good at hotkeying units to micro them. Haha, I should probably go to some Starcraft forums for better help but can you guys help me on some tips on microing units and armies with hotkeys?
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
most important thing about hotkeys IMO is to have a schema you stick to. I play zerg, and I always have 6-0 as hatcheries, 5 as my first OL, 4 as my second OL, and then after the early game, 1-5 as unit. Devise a schema that fits your play style, stick to it and learn to use it as effectively as possible. Also, teamliquid.net.
 
Pakman

Pakman

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choknater said:
Do you guys use bwchart or programs like that to take objective/numerical looks at your replays? What do you guys think of APM as a measure of skill? Much like tech skill in smash, I've faced players with high APM's but terrible macro/decision making, but efficient use of a high APM is very scary to face.

When I look at replays, the higher APM players generally tend to do better and I want to somehow improve my use of hotkeys... I'm not very good at hotkeying units to micro them. Haha, I should probably go to some Starcraft forums for better help but can you guys help me on some tips on microing units and armies with hotkeys?
Click to expand...
APM is like my biggest hurtle. Well APM and being stubborn and trying to make my own strategy.
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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I am sure we've had the apm discussion before. My position is pretty grounded though. Although you can be just as good with a 120 apm or even 100 apm, having a 200+ apm means you can preform more difficult things, such as proper micro, faster macro, decent hotkeys, and just just in general you are a faster player. Players like flash and stork who only have like what? A 240 apm? Not even? Are professionals, and they are special cases, the are so precise it's nasty. Most progamers will have a 300+ apm average, since there is a need for it. I don't think apm = skill, because spamming is always an option, but I do think if you are good, you are going to have a higher apm.
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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Flash? I thought they said his APM was through the ****ing roof, like 400ish, like, right up there with Jaedong's. I might be wrong though, I've never bwcharted a flash replay or anything, but I could've sworn that Tasteless said he frequently plays around 400.
 
KevinM

KevinM

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My APM hovered right around 200 by the time i finished playing, btw Mogwai I now have a laptop so I can now dedicate it to starcraft

Just the mouse to go.
 
Winston

Winston

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Mogwai said:
Flash? I thought they said his APM was through the ****ing roof, like 400ish, like, right up there with Jaedong's. I might be wrong though, I've never bwcharted a flash replay or anything, but I could've sworn that Tasteless said he frequently plays around 400.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Flash is one of the high APM guys, as is Bisu and etc. The highest profile low-apm player (not counting vintage Boxer of course) was Savior in his prime.

to the original question:

APM to Tech Skill is really a perfect analogy. Tech skill doesn't determine who wins in a match of smash, but having the tech skill will give you more options and if you know how to use those options then you definitely will benefit. Replace the instances of tech skill in that sentence and smash with starcraft and it still holds. (also lol guys Terran = Fox and Protoss = Marth)

Just getting that number up with spamming obviously won't help you, just as doing random tech stuff in smash wouldn't help either. But yeah apm is good though not a direct measure of skill etc. etc.

as far as tips go, are you asking about how to hotkey your unit groups or how to micro them when they're hotkeyed? >.>
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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No flash does not have a high apm, I know this.

I used to think terran = fox and protoss = marth, but it's incomparable, so don't say that.
 
unknownPresence

unknownPresence

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any1 feel like explaining hotkeys more, i have my own system, but i make a transition where i hotkey my army, and sometimes my army gets to big for only 5 hotkeys, and having more than that for armies gets to chaotic.
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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whoa whoa whoa... What race do you play? Over 5 hotkeys? Dude.... That's 60 units, which is like 120 psi, or like 80-100 psi for zerg, worth of units. 5 hotkeys is probably the max you should have anyways. 1-4 for units and 5 for special. Or #-# for units 5 for special. Either way, have 5 for special.
 
unknownPresence

unknownPresence

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w/e ill switch to terran then, i just got back into it, and im way off in my build orders. terran allows for some on the spot BO's as long as u follow some of the basic steps. IMO
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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Terran build orders are all very precise. Protoss and zerg have precise bo's, but terran's bo's are so similar, so obviously they don't vary much except for the little details. Then there are special bo's that cut scvs and such. When watching pro terrans casually you won't ever notice the difference, so make sure you over analyze everything.
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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I find watching superstar terrans are harder to learn from, because most of the time they are doing too much to keep track of. Obviously you can learn some really good stuff, but just watch random gosu matches that you can get from gosu gamers. Berzerker is cool to watch, and I also like Mind a lot. Ghanzi from averatec season 1 was very fun to watch as well.
 
SloT

SloT

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Well, i'm sorta back :p
I havent played in a while... but like im willing to learn again cuz i suck. alphican is prolly like B+ iccup by now, and i'm probably D
 
P

Plairnkk

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**** i wonder if hes that good, he would wreck me. im sooo rusty and slow on this laptop, i dont think i can pass C
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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As much as I would like to say, "yeah I am B+" and then not play any of you, I can't :p. I am not THAT good, but I am pretty good :p. I think I am still C+ level.
 
P

Plairnkk

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we should play sometime when i have time, my girlfriend is almost always over at night and so i cant usually play then -_-
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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unknownPresence said:
any1 feel like explaining hotkeys more, i have my own system, but i make a transition where i hotkey my army, and sometimes my army gets to big for only 5 hotkeys, and having more than that for armies gets to chaotic.
Click to expand...
as zerg, you pass 5 hotkeys really fast if you're hotkeying lings, but once I start getting other units, I typically just use ctrl clicks to use my lings since I really require the hatchery hotkeys to keep up unit production.
 
P

Plairnkk

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really? when i was z i found hotkeying units so much more important than hatcheries for flanking and such. you can always control+click laarva too XD. but to each his own
 
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