Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Zankoku]

For a really powerful race, they've been getting their numbers cut down pretty hard in GSL. Code S's Ro8 has 3 Terran, 4 Protoss, and 1 Zerg.

 

[Lazzarrath]

Zerg overall right now is REALLY powerful as a race (inb4 nah man qq zerg sucks)

the hardest matchup i would think would be ZvT for zerg players considering ghost play is so powerful.
Even though zerg players still destroy at the matchup.

well blizz is looking at ghosts it would seem :/
honestly I think zvt is pretty good as it is, the only major issue is scouting early game for zerg still. statistically after like 20 minutes terran win percentages in tvp and tvz both drop to around 40% and with blizz's current ghosts changes in mind it seems like terrans will just die to brood, festor queen again

 

[sakuraZaKi]

So I'm looking at 3 gate robo, and it has 13 gateway, 15 gas, and the usual 9/12 moved up by 1 supply.

Is there a reason for this? I don't see why I can't do 12 gateway.

 

[Zankoku]

From my experience, laying down a Gateway anywhere between 12-14 is mostly a matter of preference, with minor changes in probe delays and economy. I think 13 allows for no delay in probe production even with an early scout, but can't say for sure.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah 12 gate usually makes you delay a probe by a few seconds, whereas a 13 gate is on the other side of that 50 mineral gap; you make the probe before the gateway. In PvP i do 12 gate since warp gate timings by fractions of seconds can change the early game, but in PvT i go for the econ. I never did 14 gate since I don't see the point.

For the gas, if you do a 12 gate and hold your chrono until 14 you can get a 13 gas without delaying a probe. Same thing for a 13 gate but its a 14 gas.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Okay, earlier someone said I should just keep making stuff to use my resources...

What are the best things to spend on for a Protoss?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Anything but carriers.

 

[Zankoku]

I dunno, that Carrier/High Templar/Mothership composition's pretty fierce lol.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

What does it mean 'to inject'?

When do you guys start expanding to your 1st/2nd/3rd/etc.?

 

[Zankoku]

inject larva, it's the Queen's best ability because it basically gives Zerg its strong production speed without needing too many additional hatcheries.

 

[Allied]

well blizz is looking at ghosts it would seem :/
honestly I think zvt is pretty good as it is, the only major issue is scouting early game for zerg still. statistically after like 20 minutes terran win percentages in tvp and tvz both drop to around 40% and with blizz's current ghosts changes in mind it seems like terrans will just die to brood, festor queen again

well its not that broodlord infestor kills terran, thats really easy to deal with. Ghosts overall make it really easy as a terran player to deal with sudden transition switches (aka late late game). When its late game and you just survived 2 attacks in a row and zerg reinforces 15 corrupters and makes alot of broodlords after dealing with ultras. Its really hard to have the vikings already churned out at the reinforcement rate zerg has. Ghosts make dealing with this easier as a universal counter (killing broodlords really quick while emping infestors, Snipe ignores Ultras Armor making focus fire on them really effective). With the damage nerf though besides using them to emp infestors its going to be a guessing game again when TvZ late game means preemptively make vikings which doesnt bother me but apparently its the QQ of terran right now.

 

[Allied]

http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS

edit- i take back my previous post. Its the international thats approaching the 60-40 threshold. Korean server has it pretty even actually.

For a really powerful race, they've been getting their numbers cut down pretty hard in GSL. Code S's Ro8 has 3 Terran, 4 Protoss, and 1 Zerg.

check the above image

right now that includes all major tournaments, etc. Zerg is dominating at least internationally.

Korea server has them pretty even. I think its about time zerg stop crying and leave that to the protoss for a bit.

 

[Lazzarrath]

well its not that broodlord infestor kills terran, thats really easy to deal with. Ghosts overall make it really easy as a terran player to deal with sudden transition switches (aka late late game). When its late game and you just survived 2 attacks in a row and zerg reinforces 15 corrupters and makes alot of broodlords after dealing with ultras. Its really hard to have the vikings already churned out at the reinforcement rate zerg has. Ghosts make dealing with this easier as a universal counter (killing broodlords really quick while emping infestors, Snipe ignores Ultras Armor making focus fire on them really effective). With the damage nerf though besides using them to emp infestors its going to be a guessing game again when TvZ late game means preemptively make vikings which doesnt bother me but apparently its the QQ of terran right now.

I think that is the first time I have ever heard another terran say that broodlord, infestor, queen is easy to deal with lol. the only positive of this patch is just that now you don't have any infestors surviving two snipes thanks to zerg regen, so it is like a high temp now in that regard, except that most zergs still can't split infestors so emping can still be somewhat effective.

 

[Zankoku]

Let's talk about something more interesting, like the Phoenix range upgrade. I'm still not sure exactly how big of an impact that'll cause.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

can someone link me to these patch notes? id like to read

 

[Zankoku]

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4448820/Situation_Report_Patch_143-2_10_2012#blog

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

omg thats great! Is the patch released yet? (not at home)

 

[Allied]

I think that is the first time I have ever heard another terran say that broodlord, infestor, queen is easy to deal with lol. the only positive of this patch is just that now you don't have any infestors surviving two snipes thanks to zerg regen, so it is like a high temp now in that regard, except that most zergs still can't split infestors so emping can still be somewhat effective.

most terrans can't play late game. It all comes down to how well you micro and split your vikings up. theres a whole method and how to deal with it but it depends on how well you control zerg all game long.

i just hope ghosts aren't completely useless.

Let's talk about something more interesting, like the Phoenix range upgrade. I'm still not sure exactly how big of an impact that'll cause.

I think its gonna be a little.. broken but idk thats me. +2 range is big on a unit that already outranged mutas.

i don't think it will affect other matchups though

omg thats great! Is the patch released yet? (not at home)

no

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I watched state of the game today where iNcontroL, CatZ and QXC discussed the patch notes. They all pretty much agreed the ghost nerf was too severe but that snipe is slightly too powerful. Going from 11 snipes to 21 snipes is way too severe, and it also removes basically every other use for snipe in other match-ups (such as 1 shotting marines, sniping banelings and zealots, etc). They suggested a much better solution: adding a "-X damage to massive" on snipe.

 

[Lazzarrath]

qxc also made a blog post about the ghost issue, where he covered how their nerf would change things in both tvp and tvz
http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/entry.php?b=1992
fairly good read

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah he basically said the same thing on SotG

 

[Allied]

tbh i'm just gonna end the game before it gets late game vs zerg now. ghost change really sucks but w/e son. gotta improvise

 

[Lazzarrath]

yeah luckily more terrans are developing pushes to punish zerg early while staying on 1 gas. been using builds by demuslim and puma that do just that. Of course I could always just go to Sc style against zerg and do massive 2 base pushes as well I spose. out of curiosity anyone else watch the showmatch between idra and alive?

 

[Allied]

yeah luckily more terrans are developing pushes to punish zerg early while staying on 1 gas. been using builds by demuslim and puma that do just that. Of course I could always just go to Sc style against zerg and do massive 2 base pushes as well I spose. out of curiosity anyone else watch the showmatch between idra and alive?

i sadly haven't , yeah i mean as long as you harass and control zerg all game long. You should be able to handle them well late game. If you let zerg macro without any pressure. its gg

 

[Pyronic_Star]

So I've been out a while, what changes with zergs to make them good? And what made protoss bad?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

People figured out a lot of common timings and counters, so zergs live until the late game more. Broodlord corruptor infestor is probably the strongest army composition in the game, too.

 

[M@v]

Hey all, starting to get back into sc2 again

Due to me not laddering in 9 or so months i got demoted into platinum 1v1. However I'm pretty sure I already got my mmr high enough that ill go diamond again once the new season starts.

Still see terran is getting nerfs :3

The only serious issues I'm having are TvP as usual, but nowhere near as bad as I used to be. Pretty sure I'm either at an even record with p now or barely losing(used to win like 1 game in maybe 10 lol).

The other problem I have is against Z on the very large maps, like tal'darim altar. How do you guys go about it?
I usually do a heavy mech style in tvz, but on the large maps, im always afraid to push because of how easy it is to get surrounds, and once they get really good creep spread, im damn near petrified to move my army up because he's gonna see me a mile away and hit me with my tanks out of position. And if I try to leapfrog up on the big maps, it takes far too long to get there and he has everything he needs to stop the push.

Halp >_>

 

[Lazzarrath]

Hey all, starting to get back into sc2 again

Due to me not laddering in 9 or so months i got demoted into platinum 1v1. However I'm pretty sure I already got my mmr high enough that ill go diamond again once the new season starts.

Still see terran is getting nerfs :3

The only serious issues I'm having are TvP as usual, but nowhere near as bad as I used to be. Pretty sure I'm either at an even record with p now or barely losing(used to win like 1 game in maybe 10 lol).

The other problem I have is against Z on the very large maps, like tal'darim altar. How do you guys go about it?
I usually do a heavy mech style in tvz, but on the large maps, im always afraid to push because of how easy it is to get surrounds, and once they get really good creep spread, im damn near petrified to move my army up because he's gonna see me a mile away and hit me with my tanks out of position. And if I try to leapfrog up on the big maps, it takes far too long to get there and he has everything he needs to stop the push.

Halp >_>

on tal darim the most stable and probably best all around build is reactor hellion. you can easily force at least two spines, plenty of lings and you should be able to halt almost all creep spread and delay their third tremendously. from there you can hit them with a 2 base timing or just take a quick third (or both!). as far as mech goes it can be really strong early on for tal darim, with 2 base pushes and the like, thanks to the cliff on the natural, but later on it can be a total pain as its such a huge map that a lot of zergs will just go crazy with counter attacks or set up massive flanks etc. thats mostly assuming its cross positions though. I don't play mech on most maps, but on close pos tal darim I see no reason why it couldnt be pretty effective, especially if you get the super imba positions where you can siege under their natural and hold the tower with the same control group.

I have actually started doing a lot better in tvp as of late, just thanks to scouting toss early game more efficiently and adjusting my unit composition late game more, which means lots of scanning.

 

[Allied]

So I've been out a while, what changes with zergs to make them good? And what made protoss bad?

People figured out a lot of common timings and counters, so zergs live until the late game more. Broodlord corruptor infestor is probably the strongest army composition in the game, too.

basically that. Zerg is good people! idk why no believes me!

on tal darim the most stable and probably best all around build is reactor hellion. you can easily force at least two spines, plenty of lings and you should be able to halt almost all creep spread and delay their third tremendously. from there you can hit them with a 2 base timing or just take a quick third (or both!). as far as mech goes it can be really strong early on for tal darim, with 2 base pushes and the like, thanks to the cliff on the natural, but later on it can be a total pain as its such a huge map that a lot of zergs will just go crazy with counter attacks or set up massive flanks etc. thats mostly assuming its cross positions though. I don't play mech on most maps, but on close pos tal darim I see no reason why it couldnt be pretty effective, especially if you get the super imba positions where you can siege under their natural and hold the tower with the same control group.

I have actually started doing a lot better in tvp as of late, just thanks to scouting toss early game more efficiently and adjusting my unit composition late game more, which means lots of scanning.

^ he nailed it basically. Mech is really strong early. Later you have to have REALLY strong game sense and positions if you plan on going late game on the map. its extremely hard but doable but one mess up and its gg #thelifeofmech.

I suggest learning marine tank, alot more consistent and more forgiving if you mess up. You gain drops, more consistent map control, deal with all universal compositions etc etc. Just the go to build in TvZ right now. I used to use mech but i realized it doesnt work past like diamond really and really depends on the map and what kind of build yoru going for.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I love marine tank.

I matched up vs a random player on shattered temple today. I figured "oh hes gonna abuse his R advantage and not scout early" so i did CC first (its a gamble but i was feeling risky). He ends up being terran and does a 1/1/1 (marine tank banshee) and I stomp him with marine maruader only

 

[Allied]

i'm officially top masters i guess? actually no still mid masters but i'm rank 11. almost top 8. just need 100 points i think i'm like 850 iirc.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

So who here is Protoss?

I'm getting a feeling I'm outnumbered (other than outskilled) here.

 

[Allied]

So who here is Protoss?

I'm getting a feeling I'm outnumbered (other than outskilled) here.

sveet used to be.

 

[F1SHY]

Im plat toss
should start laddering more, think I could get into diamond.


Should laddering consist of just a few (2-3) safe builds?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Protoss is still my best race, by far, even though I don't play them. In practice, im around low masters with protoss. My zerg used to be low/mid diamond and my terran appears to be low diamond for the moment.


@f1shy, laddering should be practice. Don't look forward to winning, only learning. Don't say "I want to beat my opponent", say "I want to do reactor hellion expand while making sure to watch the minimap, keep good scouting and transition into a marine tank mid game" or whatever the situation is for you. You will advance in leagues MUCH faster if you focus on learning instead of winning, i guarantee you.

 

[Zankoku]

I was Platinum Terran at the time I stopped playing ladder, which might be inaccurate because I placed directly into Platinum and stopped laddering two months afterward. I'm decent practice for anyone in lower metal leagues looking to improve in simple macro, though, lol.

 

[Allied]

finished 12th in Masters, Now i'm like 40th. Gonna try laddering most of the day to hit top masters. Gotta try grandmaster

 

[Lazzarrath]

well I finished the season with a losing streak on na putting me at around 1000 points -.-
hopefully this season I can at least make masters on korea

 

[M@v]

Well as I suspected, I got placed back into diamond this season. I am partly surprised it happened though considering I went 3-9 yesterday and lost my placement match. lul. Oh well. Just gonna iron out my problems in custom games then re hit the ladder so I stay diamond.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Omg ladder reset! Im gonna play after dinner