Stand Alone Characters

[Demenise]

We know that most characters need a secondary. Bottom tiers, such as Falcon, need it badly. There are other higher tiers, such as Wario, who have pretty good matchups overall and one terrible one, making a secondary necessary.

So, in your opinion, which characters don't need a secondary? It doesn't matter if their matchups aren't ideal or all in their favor; just characters that can hold their own in any match.

 

[SuSa]

Meta Knight Snake

Ohshi-....................................... yah thats all I can think of. Everyone else at least needs 1 counterpick for 1-3 matchups, Snake can hold his own in his bad matchups...

 

[_Phloat_]

I second what Havokk is saying...

Meta Knight, Snake.

And I think Marth, he has some bad ones, but overall they are good and the bad ones *can* be overcome with great skill. Marth would really like a secondary though, but it isn't "required" persay.

Also, Lucario last I remember has the same situation. He has some bad ones, but his traits make him viable in every matchup

 

[BurningCrusader777]

And I also agree with the very obvious MK, Snake.

Marth and Lucario, as pointed out above me, don't require secondaries either.

Uh...

Maybe G&W? Not sure.

 

[Mmac]

Actually, Game & Watch, Falco, Lucario, ROB, Marth, Kirby, and Yoshi (Yes, Seriously) you can solely main by themselves too due to few only a few bad matchups which they can hold their own well by putting effort into the matchup

It just depends on what you are looking for. If you mean like only having 0-2 Bad Matchups, then it's pretty much MetaKnight, Snake, G&W, and Marth

Spoiler

Yes, I am serious about Yoshi holding his own, he is so vastly underrated, it's not funny anymore

 

[JOE!]

people really gotta starts learning that yoshi just has a differenet feel/playstyle, and isnt just bad
*thumbsup to Mmac*

I think Peach could join the list, if played well

same with Sonic*

*sonic is like yoshi in that he just has a very odd playstyle/feel. That and many people dont know how to deal with a well played sonic, giving hims an advantage in alot of instances

 

[M@v]

Snake gets screwed by DDD dont forget....


MK, marth and Lucario are the guys that dont need a secondary.

 

[_Phloat_]

No to the Game and Watch thing..

A Snake that has a B button on his controller gives GaW HUGE trouble.

 

[SuSa]

Snake gets screwed by DDD dont forget....


MK, marth and Lucario are the guys that dont need a secondary.

He can easily handle DeDeDe however.

Stage control >>> DeDeDE

Placing Mines on platforms at Battlefield >>>> DeDeDE's CG (he rises slightly, making him hit the mine)

He has to be frame perfect to CG us. one mistake, and we get a grenade out.

His recovery is so predictable, a good Snake should get Nair out on it, OFTEN.

 

[8AngeL8]

The DDD matchup isn't as bad for Snake as people make it out to be. I'd say 60/40 DDD, which can be easily overcome with smart Snake play. Play it like the Ice Climbers, with loads of shield dropped 'nades and mortars to stop grabs and you'll be fine. DDD will have trouble killing unless it's a gimp kill, and he can't get Snake off stage without the chain grab. If Snake doesn't get grabbed, he doesn't get gimped.

As far as who doesn't need a secondary, I'd say it's MK, Snake, DDD, GaW, and Marth.

 

[rm88]

^ This, Dedede is not nearly as bad for Snake as some people say. Try to defeat G&W with Jigglypuff and think again. Anyway, I don't think any other character besides MK and Snake could be a "stand alone" character.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

MK is the only character without any bad matchups, debatably. Snake, Marth, and Lucario all have very few bad matchups, and those that are bad are 6-4 at worst. I may be biased but I also think that if you live in an area where the infinite is banned, DK is a good choice too. Aside from an infiniting DDD his only bad matchups are Wario and Luigi both 6-4.

 

[Napilopez]

I agree with most of the chars mentioned here.

MK, Snake Marth, G&W, Yoshi, Sonic all can do well as standalone chars. I dunno enough about peach to judge her, but it seems like she can be added to this list too.

 

[deepseadiva]

I think Peach could join the list, if played well

Honestly, and realistically speaking, yes. Peach really does well on her own.

What's her worst matchup? Marth? MK? Ha.

 

[Kinzer]

What about Olimar?

I'm kind of skeptical, but perhaps Sonic could be a stand-alone character even if nobody but three people (me included) do it. It's just so much work you have to put into his bad matchups, but I guess once you get it down it can be possible.

 

[Iris]

Does Zelda/Sheik count as a standalone character?

 

[M@v]

Does Zelda/Sheik count as a standalone character?

How did I forget about that one? Thats MY second for goodness sakes ;_:

You still have to watch out for Marth,MK, and G&W though. They beat both Zelda and sheik up pretty good.

 

[Luigi player]

Don't forget Diddy Kong.

 

[Iris]

How did I forget about that one? Thats MY second for goodness sakes ;_:

You still have to watch out for Marth,MK, and G&W though. They beat both Zelda and sheik up pretty good.

This is true, but other than that the combination of the two have fairly good match ups. Besides those three, there's no one particularly debilitating to them.

Hell, even those three aren't as bad when using them both in tandem. Sheik's noticeable lack of kill power on characters with amazing recoveries is pretty much null once Zelda's brought in.

 

[Ace Of Flames]

Only one. Metaknight. He has 50:50 match-ups at worst.

 

[8AngeL8]

Diddy gets destroyed by Falco.

 

[Illomatic]

I agree with most of the chars mentioned here.

MK, Snake Marth, G&W, Yoshi, Sonic all can do well as standalone chars. I dunno enough about peach to judge her, but it seems like she can be added to this list too.

yeah i agree, especially with peach, if played well she is really good

 

[Count]

Diddy gets destroyed by Falco.

It's like 6-4 falco maybe 65-35. Diddy has TONS of bad matchups, but none that are IMPOSSIBLE. Thus making him not necessarily require a secondary, just a lot of matchup knowledge and slightly more skill than most opponents.

 

[rm88]

Peach? Well, I do pretty good against MK and Marth, but Snake is my (not Peach's) counter, so I don't know...

 

[M@v]

Don't forget Diddy Kong.

No. Just because diddy is good vs mk doesn't mean hes is a standalone character and amazing, get over it.

 

[Kitamerby]

Lucario gets seriously screwed by DDD. <<

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAPFFUMOJAM

Boy, I'll say.



Is it possible Toon Link can hold his own ground, or who beats him?

 

[Kraryo]

Meta Knight
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Falco
Snake
Donkey Kong (only if D3's infinite is banned)
Kirby

The three Ms all have disjointed hitboxes, good range, and most of the cast have trouble dealing with them. Falco is a well balanced character and he has a chaingrab. Snake is deadly. DK and Kirby also don't suffer from any **** matchups (assuming that D3's infinite is banned).

 

[Brinzy]

How did I forget about that one? Thats MY second for goodness sakes ;_:

You still have to watch out for Marth,MK, and G&W though. They beat both Zelda and sheik up pretty good.

I dunno, Marth doesn't really seem to be a huge threat to Zelda/Sheik, and by "huge threat" I mean a necessity to CP.

 

[SothE700k]

I'm kind of skeptical, but perhaps Sonic could be a stand-alone character even if nobody but three people (me included) do it. It's just so much work you have to put into his bad matchups, but I guess once you get it down it can be possible.

Sorry man, but this just can't be true. Sonic NEEDS back up or he's toast. 90% of the cast having quite a big advantage on you doesn't mean you can stand out...

This is coming from an ex-Sonic main.

 

[Kinzer]

Whatc'ya mean 90% matchups, you would be right if you said Sonic has little advantageous matchups, but Sonic's worst matchup is arguably 65:35, and so far only Marth/G&W/Wario/MK fill those spots, but with enough practice can't it be worked out?

I know MK and G&W don't give me too much trouble anymore, I don't fight too many good Marth's too often, and I probably need more Wario matchup experience.

There's that, and I was just half-agreeing to somebody else, I don't know why you quoted me.

 

[Neenja13]

Diddy is also a solid character.

 

[Sosuke]

MK mains usually second DDD.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

MK mains usually second DDD.

Not because they have to though. Its more because between the two of them they have a 6-4 matchup at worst with pretty much every character in the game.

 

[Brinzy]

On a somewhat related note, before Brawl came out, I was sincerely hoping that Pokemon Trainer would be able to completely stand on his own, but alas, that is not the case...

 

[Endless Nightmares]

No. Just because diddy is good vs mk doesn't mean hes is a standalone character and amazing, get over it.

lol i sense bitterness in this post

Diddy gets destroyed by Falco.

surely you jest.


what's with the diddy hate? lol diddy came to mind for me as soon as i read the title, he is definitely a standalone character.

 

[dawgbowl]

MK and Snake for sure.

Diddy, Marth, and Lucario maybe.

3 broken hitboxes, 2 banana's from diddy and some tipper/grab release-ing. (on mothers boys)
(Xmas song much?)

No one else.
if they are so great as stand alone, they'd be doing much better.
You guys have mentioned like 10 characters as stand alones from all area's of the tier list, its probably only snake and MK solidly... everyone else has a glaring weakness.

 

[Mmac]

I think we need a basis of what makes a character able to compete without secondary help.

My basis is anyone who has:

- 8 Bad Matchups or less
- A Minimum of Two 35:65's
- No Hard Counters

Even if the character has weaknesses, everyone does (Except MetaKnight). It just depends if they need another character to cover it. If your character only has a few Bad Matchups with no Hard Counters, there is really no reason for a secondary

 

[Brinzy]

Define "bad match-ups."

Zelda, in my opinion, only experiences a match that bad vs. Olimar and G&W... so maybe she can be standalone? ... Maybe?

Eh, doubtful.

 

[Mmac]

Define "bad match-ups."

40:60 or worst?