Meta Stage Legality Discussion Thread:

[Routa]

More Wuhu stuff

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— Scott (@TheTantalus) October 29, 2015

It is kinda hard to vote when you don't have a twitter account. Very poor way to get peoples opinions.

 

[Yikarur]

Get a twitter account then. Things like this are standard nowadays.
I miss the "both" option because it gives me the feeling that either Delfino or Wuhu Island are going to be accepted, but not both parallel. (which would be non-sense)

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Get a twitter account then. Things like this are standard nowadays.
I miss the "both" option because it gives me the feeling that either Delfino or Wuhu Island are going to be accepted, but not both parallel. (which would be non-sense)

I could see that potentially happening if the meta decides that a stage with large boundaries is necessary on the list, but a stage with smaller boundaries (like Delfino) isn't. Delfino's ceilings are so absurdly low for a few seconds in the transition that it's almost a glitch. And we already have three stages that benefit characters who like low ceilings, and two of them are starters. (Dreamland, Halberd, T&C) So for a better stagelist that covers all the different qualities that players like for their characters, Wuhu is necessary and Delfino is redundant. That would be the logic behind replacing delfino entirely with Wuhu.

 

[Kaladin]

wrong thread lol

 

[Xeze]

Get a twitter account then. Things like this are standard nowadays.
I miss the "both" option because it gives me the feeling that either Delfino or Wuhu Island are going to be accepted, but not both parallel. (which would be non-sense)

I miss the "neither of them" option too.

 

[Dagon97]

Neither Whuhu or Delfino should be legal.

One could be content with a conservative stagelist:
-Starter:
BF
FD
Smashville
Town & City
Dreamland 64

-Counterpick:
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt

First off Delfino Plaza:

After the first platform, the platforms are randomized. Could this not decide a tournament set? I would hope that it wouldn't take something like that heavily manipulate the results of a major tournament to see that it would have an impact. Second the stops are randomized albeit to a small extent but still randomized. Combing island tour stops and platform variations there are 331776 possibilities going around Delfino. On Bianco Square, there are no ledges, and it is like having a Smashville platform level to the stage as close as it can get to both of the side blast zones for the eighteen seconds the transformation lasts. On East Island, there are no grabbable ledges and it highly encourages campy play almost to the extent of Pilotwings. The Docks are walkoffs therefore have no grabbable ledges. The pillar transformation provides an awkward playing field and encourages campy play, I myself can admit to doing it many times. The West Island is not as bad as East Island but there are no grabbable ledges and the shore of the island ventures obnoxiously close to the horizontal blast zones. On the rooftops, there is a walk off on the left side and no grabbable ledges on the right side and encourages camping on the center of the transformation. Noki bay encourages campy play and has walkoffs on both sides. The shine gate is the best transformation in terms of competitive play but, obnoxiously close to the side blast zones and encourage camping in the center of the transformation.

Now Whuhu,

Whuhu's platforms are not randomized but the transformations are totally randomized. The platforms are very big and as a fast character it is very easy to run away for the six minutes that the match lasts. All of the platforms encourage very campy play. The bridge is an awkward playing field and contains walkoffs on both sides. The Jet Ski Race encourages campy play towards the bottom of the stage. The rocks have no gabbable ledges and an extremely awkward and campy playing field. Offstage on the boat above 100% results in instant death, below the lip on the boat is a camping spot better than Pilotwings. The beach is a walkoff transition, simple. The volcano is very campy and has zero competitive merit whatsoever. The fountain is extraordinarily campy and a walkoff transition. The cliff contains a hazard in the balloon and a walkoff. The arena is the only competitively viable part of the stage.

 

[Ajimi]

A lot of things are random in the game. For example the spawn points of each player on the map are random, and it can have a huge impact on Smashville because the platform always starts moving in the same direction. Randomness in itself is not a problem, and I don't think it is one for Delfino or Wuhu.

Anyway, conservative or not it baffles me how much the established system is always applied without a second thought. Dude, if you have only 7 stages, go for FLSS. It never caused any problem to have Lylat or DH in "starters" before DL came out ; and having both DL and BF with only 5 stages means you have almost half of your stages with the same layout for the first match. And even with more stages, 7-stage-striking should be the minimal norm.

 

[Ghostbone]

Delfino's platform layout isn't random, or more specifically, it's not an extra random factor on top of where you land. The platform layout is completely dependent on where you're taking off from.
(someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 99% sure that's the case)

Randomness isn't the reason the stage deserves to be banned though. Pokemon Stadium 1 was legal in both Brawl and Melee despite having random transformation. The randomness in these cases averages out over the course of a game as you got each transition at about the same proportion as the others.

 

[Yikarur]

First off Delfino Plaza:

I have the feeling you didn't even play 10 matches on this stage in your smash lifespan. Because most things you've sad are just theory but not the praxis.

After the first platform, the platforms are randomized. Could this not decide a tournament set? I would hope that it wouldn't take something like that heavily manipulate the results of a major tournament to see that it would have an impact. Second the stops are randomized albeit to a small extent but still randomized. Combing island tour stops and platform variations there are 331776 possibilities going around Delfino.

There are not 331776 possibilities, because it's not completely randomized. For each stop you have a 25-50% Chance on getting the transformation right, because you only have 2-3 possible transformations which might come next.

On Bianco Square, there are no ledges, and it is like having a Smashville platform level to the stage as close as it can get to both of the side blast zones for the eighteen seconds the transformation lasts.

It's not Smashville Level Plattform to the side blastzones. Maybe "Smashville level" but not plattform level.

On East Island, there are no grabbable ledges and it highly encourages campy play almost to the extent of Pilotwings.

Pilot Wing's camping is circle and non approachable under plattform-camping. How is this comparable to an island with no plattforms and no circles?

The Docks are walkoffs therefore have no grabbable ledges.

true

The pillar transformation provides an awkward playing field and encourages campy play, I myself can admit to doing it many times.

Campy play is not a problem if it's just that temporary. I've seen very strategic combat on that transformation so you can camp but it might not be the best strategy.

The West Island is not as bad as East Island but there are no grabbable ledges and the shore of the island ventures obnoxiously close to the horizontal blast zones.

On the rooftops, there is a walk off on the left side and no grabbable ledges on the right side and encourages camping on the center of the transformation.

Noki bay encourages campy play and has walkoffs on both sides.

Why are you always throwing arround "Campy play" without any evidence to back that up? How are you supposed to camp on a plattform-less transformation with walk offs? how are you camping in the center which is a worse position because it's higher-leveled?

The shine gate is the best transformation in terms of competitive play but, obnoxiously close to the side blast zones and encourage camping in the center of the transformation.

Same as rooftoops.
I see a correlation between "ledges and no walk-offs" and "best for competitive play". I think the shine gate is one of the worse transformations for competitive play because of the difference in levels.

This is one of my favorite stages in this game, because it encourages alternate gameplay while still being really competitive.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

To be honest, I actually think Delfino could be perfectly legal if it didn't have transformations that dramatically change what players can do. Like the dock transformation, for example; that has a perfectly good walkoff that's just begging to be abused. Stuff like that cripples Delfino in a tournament sense, even as a counterpick option.

If the stage was starting position -> plaza -> pillars -> bay -> building -> loop to start and it had consistent blastzones, I think it'd be legal, if maybe as a counterpick. But the way it is now, it's just not all that viable.

Since some of the transformations can encourage degenerative gameplay, it's really just easier on everyone to just avoid the issue entirely by banning Delfino than having to pull hairs about the stage because a small minority think it should be perfectly legal.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Delfino's platform layout isn't random, or more specifically, it's not an extra random factor on top of where you land. The platform layout is completely dependent on where you're taking off from.
(someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 99% sure that's the case)

Randomness isn't the reason the stage deserves to be banned though. Pokemon Stadium 1 was legal in both Brawl and Melee despite having random transformation. The randomness in these cases averages out over the course of a game as you got each transition at about the same proportion as the others.

Delfino's moving platform actually is random. There's only a few specific possibilities, but unlike Wuhu and Skyloft there's no set order to which one will pick you up at any given time.

EDIT: There are 4 specific platforms that can move you around, although I can't remember offhand if the first one is always the same or not. There are 9 total locations the stage can drop you off at, broken into a 2/2/3/2 pattern where the first stop is one of the two, the second is one of a different two, the third is one of three, and the last is one of another set of two. 2 * 2 * 3 * 2 = 24 possible permutations. Multiply that by 4^4 for the four different platforms that can carry you around four times per cycle (assuming the starting one is also random, for worst case) and that's 6144 unique orderings. Which sounds like a lot until one remembers that these orderings are all made up of the same 9 + 4 = 13 static elements, and the only thing that changes is what order they crop up in.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

So my tournament Tech or Treat has come and gone, and people had a really good time. These were the full stages, full stage striking.

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Town & City
Lylat Cruise
Mushroom Kingdom U
Gamer
Luigi's Mansion
Kongo's Jungle

As a Halloween event, I figured it would be a good chance to let others experience different stages in a competitive setting. Our side of the states best attended and the results did not change; the best still placed the best while the lower level players still placed low. Our best players, to my delight, would take people to stages such as the likes of plentiful Gamer, some Luigi's Mansion, and even Gamer. As far as I know, nobody went to Kongo.

In spite of the randomization of Gamers layout, as well as the Cave of Life, I saw some really good high level play come from that and nobody complained about being "janked out", as they acknowledged when they were caught in a bad situation where they were caught by the mother that it was their fault for being in such a precarious situation.

We ran these stages for both singles and doubles, and Luigi's Mansion seemed to have been a particular favorite even for singles to my surprise (we'll have video footage of the entire events matches soon). Luigi's Mansion has never been tried in a competitive format, and it was nice to see what creative ways people would go about their combos in relation to where they were on the stage and such.

There was some slight salt with Mushroom Kingdom U here and there, but people went here very often game one. There were instances I'll show later where Nabbit would appear, and me and my opponent would instinctively decide to team up against and body him before proceeding with our matches. I saw a lot of others do that off stream, too. People really appreciated the interesting layouts of the main stages, and not a single person had a problem with the few hazards like the ice given how mostly easy it was to see coming.

Have nothing to say regarding Kongo. We used to run it for doubles before it was inevitably cut, so I figured it would be good to bring it back for data, but nobody really went here.

Everyone had a really good time it seemed, and honestly I'd welcome Mushroom Kingdom U more often into our stagelist given how much people enjoyed its competitive value. And most here in the state are as conservative as it gets.

 

[teluoborg]

It's nice that people played the game, I'm waiting for the replays. Did anyone try to abuse the circle camping and other degenerate stuff on the stage or did a soft ban get created (= no explicit rule but everyone agreed not to) ?

 

[MrGame&Rock]

If there's more of a push for MKU, would a gentleman's agreement to destroy nabbit first, similar to the gentleman's agreement to never chaingrab in a melee sheik ditto, help it along? Because without nabbit I'd certainly use that stage

 

[RIP|Merrick]

If there's more of a push for MKU, would a gentleman's agreement to destroy nabbit first, similar to the gentleman's agreement to never chaingrab in a melee sheik ditto, help it along? Because without nabbit I'd certainly use that stage

It wasn't a written rule, but I did recommend to those who played this stage to get rid of him immediately without harming your opponent, yeah. From what I've seen and in my own time playing on and experimenting with the stage I personally have never had a problem with Nabbit, mostly being weary when he'd do a leap when you're near a stage to effectively KO you from the lowest blastzone regardless of mashing. Will have to test further, but I know even at higher percentages when you're snagged by him I was able to rapidly mash out. I never really had a problem with him regardless given how pathetically he takes hits, and how you can grab, jab lock him, and more just like any character. It's interesting really.

It's nice that people played the game, I'm waiting for the replays. Did anyone try to abuse the circle camping and other degenerate stuff on the stage or did a soft ban get created (= no explicit rule but everyone agreed not to) ?

One of our best Sheik players Miloni decided to take someone to Gamer as a character he didn't even play as, which was Zero Suit Samus. I don't recall if it was recorded off or on stream, but I remember watching him jumping laps around a Mario with a particular layout that had a solid platform above (I'll find a pic soon of this particular layout) and generally trying to avoid contact. There was a few times he was being careless and he was in a position where mother caught him in his tracks, lol. Once more of the singles videos are uploaded I'll let you all know, mostly just doubles as of right now.

 

[Krysco]

Guess I'll share here that I've finished the Miiverse video:

Did what I could to fix the audio issues that were present in the Battlefield video.

As I've said, Dream Land 64 is next after this though I haven't even begun recording for it yet, only have notes down for what I want to record. After that, it's a toss up. I want to cover the obviously legal stages first and I'm personally leaning towards Smashville next but I could end up covering Lylat Cruise, Town and City, Final Destination and Omegas or Duck Hunt next. Pretty sure every other stage has at least some people wanting it banned if it's not already. After the ones listed above, I'll probably cover Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Skyloft, Wuhu Island aaand I guess Mario Circuit and Pokemon Stadium 2. No idea what order yet though.

 

[Froggy]

They need to import Yoshis Island from the DS the sameway they did DuckHunt form the WiiU so we can have another legal stage to play on.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So my tournament Tech or Treat has come and gone, and people had a really good time. These were the full stages, full stage striking.

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Town & City
Lylat Cruise
Mushroom Kingdom U
Gamer
Luigi's Mansion
Kongo's Jungle

As a Halloween event, I figured it would be a good chance to let others experience different stages in a competitive setting. Our side of the states best attended and the results did not change; the best still placed the best while the lower level players still placed low. Our best players, to my delight, would take people to stages such as the likes of plentiful Gamer, some Luigi's Mansion, and even Gamer. As far as I know, nobody went to Kongo.

In spite of the randomization of Gamers layout, as well as the Cave of Life, I saw some really good high level play come from that and nobody complained about being "janked out", as they acknowledged when they were caught in a bad situation where they were caught by the mother that it was their fault for being in such a precarious situation.

We ran these stages for both singles and doubles, and Luigi's Mansion seemed to have been a particular favorite even for singles to my surprise (we'll have video footage of the entire events matches soon). Luigi's Mansion has never been tried in a competitive format, and it was nice to see what creative ways people would go about their combos in relation to where they were on the stage and such.

There was some slight salt with Mushroom Kingdom U here and there, but people went here very often game one. There were instances I'll show later where Nabbit would appear, and me and my opponent would instinctively decide to team up against and body him before proceeding with our matches. I saw a lot of others do that off stream, too. People really appreciated the interesting layouts of the main stages, and not a single person had a problem with the few hazards like the ice given how mostly easy it was to see coming.

Have nothing to say regarding Kongo. We used to run it for doubles before it was inevitably cut, so I figured it would be good to bring it back for data, but nobody really went here.

Everyone had a really good time it seemed, and honestly I'd welcome Mushroom Kingdom U more often into our stagelist given how much people enjoyed its competitive value. And most here in the state are as conservative as it gets.

This is really encouraging news. Could you post here again once the videos are up? I'd be super interested in watching matches on Gamer, Luigi's, and Mushroom U.

Out of the non-standard stages, did you get the impression that anyone would be amenable to playing on them in more serious contexts than a Halloween themed event?

 

[Ansou]

Guess I'll share here that I've finished the Miiverse video:

Did what I could to fix the audio issues that were present in the Battlefield video.

As I've said, Dream Land 64 is next after this though I haven't even begun recording for it yet, only have notes down for what I want to record. After that, it's a toss up. I want to cover the obviously legal stages first and I'm personally leaning towards Smashville next but I could end up covering Lylat Cruise, Town and City, Final Destination and Omegas or Duck Hunt next. Pretty sure every other stage has at least some people wanting it banned if it's not already. After the ones listed above, I'll probably cover Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Skyloft, Wuhu Island aaand I guess Mario Circuit and Pokemon Stadium 2. No idea what order yet though.

The audio change really made a big difference. I like the video in general. The only thing I didn't really like was how long time it takes for you to demonstrate kill percentages and how what you said in that part wasn't synced to the video footage. Good work otherwise!

 

[Krysco]

The audio change really made a big difference. I like the video in general. The only thing I didn't really like was how long time it takes for you to demonstrate kill percentages and how what you said in that part wasn't synced to the video footage. Good work otherwise!

Thanks for the feedback! The audio fix was simple to figure out and I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it as an improvement. The kill percent demonstrations take a while since I show that they work at the percents I mention and not a single percent lower and I have to do the test on each platform. This'll only get longer on stages such as Delfino. The syncing is largely just me being lazy, something I should probably work on. I could see about speeding up the kill percent footage since I doubt many people want to see Marth charging his up smash for an entire minute on certain stages.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Thanks for the feedback! The audio fix was simple to figure out and I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it as an improvement. The kill percent demonstrations take a while since I show that they work at the percents I mention and not a single percent lower and I have to do the test on each platform. This'll only get longer on stages such as Delfino. The syncing is largely just me being lazy, something I should probably work on. I could see about speeding up the kill percent footage since I doubt many people want to see Marth charging his up smash for an entire minute on certain stages.

Consider maybe doing a split-screen of the kill and not-kill %s, at the moment the attack first hits? It'll take some video editing though.

 

[Krysco]

Consider maybe doing a split-screen of the kill and not-kill %s, at the moment the attack first hits? It'll take some video editing though.

I've never done that before so I'd have to learn how to but that's a good idea!

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I've never done that before so I'd have to learn how to but that's a good idea!

What do you use to record? Maybe I could help in some way since I make overlays and such for my own channel and other streams.

This is really encouraging news. Could you post here again once the videos are up? I'd be super interested in watching matches on Gamer, Luigi's, and Mushroom U.

Out of the non-standard stages, did you get the impression that anyone would be amenable to playing on them in more serious contexts than a Halloween themed event?

That tournament did get Mushroom Kingdom U buzzing for awhile in our Facebook group which surprised me, and I've personally talked to some of our players of their thoughts and they said in general their only real problem with it was Nabbit, and we started brainstorming a potential clause to eliminate him if he shows up. I'd like to see more of it since it was deemed banned by the community at large initially if I recall correctly.

Sorry I haven't had the time to scrunch down the base videos to smaller, individual ones yet from Tech or Treat, I'll probably just post the second half of the video feed which was all singles since I know that has plenty of Gamer, Luigi's Mansion, and I believe a few instances of Mushroom Kingdom U on it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

That tournament did get Mushroom Kingdom U buzzing for awhile in our Facebook group which surprised me, and I've personally talked to some of our players of their thoughts and they said in general their only real problem with it was Nabbit, and we started brainstorming a potential clause to eliminate him if he shows up. I'd like to see more of it since it was deemed banned by the community at large initially if I recall correctly.

Sorry I haven't had the time to scrunch down the base videos to smaller, individual ones yet from Tech or Treat, I'll probably just post the second half of the video feed which was all singles since I know that has plenty of Gamer, Luigi's Mansion, and I believe a few instances of Mushroom Kingdom U on it.

A video feed would be quite satisfactory.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Here's our playlist with doubles matches uploaded individually and most all of singles. Mushroom Kingdom U, Gamer, and Luigi's Mansion got some good matches in. Enjoy.

 

[Krysco]

What do you use to record? Maybe I could help in some way since I make overlays and such for my own channel and other streams.

I use my HD capture card which has to have a usb plugged in to save the recordings to and then I just use Windows Movie Maker and cut out parts I don't want. I use Audacity to record my voice and then add it as 'music' to where I need it in WMM. Very basic.

 

[clydeaker]

Temple's not that big, I think it should be legal.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dg7aBf78A.

 

[evmaxy54]

Temple's not that big, I think it should be legal.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dg7aBf78A.

 

[clydeaker]

 

[Xeze]

This thread lately...

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Is there any way we can test the approximate percentage or time it takes to mash out of a Nabbit grab on Mushroom Kingdom U? Because if you could theoretically mash out of one at like 180% or something high without being lifted off to the very top of the blast zone then I think that could make Nabbit less of an issue.

Edit: Repeatedly got "nabbed" at 200% seven times, one of those times he took a little time to run to one end of the stage before lifting off, and the other he wasted no time setting off. I just alternated fairly quickly between the a+b buttons and I got out right before I died each time. Only once so far at that percentage was I too late to mash out of it with the elevation increase, and even then I feel I might have gotten out of it by a hair.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Is there any way we can test the approximate percentage or time it takes to mash out of a Nabbit grab on Mushroom Kingdom U? Because if you could theoretically mash out of one at like 180% or something high without being lifted off to the very top of the blast zone then I think that could make Nabbit less of an issue.

Edit: Repeatedly got "nabbed" at 200% seven times, one of those times he took a little time to run to one end of the stage before lifting off, and the other he wasted no time setting off. I just alternated fairly quickly between the a+b buttons and I got out right before I died each time. Only once so far at that percentage was I too late to mash out of it with the elevation increase, and even then I feel I might have gotten out of it by a hair.

I haven't played on MKU in a while, but I recall Nabbit being fairly easy to mash out of back when I was testing the stage out.

At the risk of derailing the topic, I think MKU would be a prime candidate for a legal stage in the event of a PM-esque mod. Get rid of Nabbit (and maybe the icicles and urchins) and you have a very dynamic, yet also completely harmless stage.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I haven't played on MKU in a while, but I recall Nabbit being fairly easy to mash out of back when I was testing the stage out.

At the risk of derailing the topic, I think MKU would be a prime candidate for a legal stage in the event of a PM-esque mod. Get rid of Nabbit (and maybe the icicles and urchins) and you have a very dynamic, yet also completely harmless stage.

MKU and Port Town. Port Town - Cars = Legal Stage

 

[ぱみゅ]

Port Town's problem is not the cars (which while strong, are fairly avoidable), is the fact the main platform does not have ledges. Sure, there are no tether-only recoveries anymore in this game, but is still a free punish. It can be played out, but the disadvantage is a bit too extreme now (and unlike in Brawl, getting hit by the road leads to easy combos for your opponent).
MKU's has (had?) glitches in which characters suddenly died. Its karts are laughably slow and weak, getting hit by them only leads to self-shame.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It's interesting how a lot of stages with interesting mechanics go just that little bit too far and end up unliked for competitive play. I think there's a balance to be had between hazard fest and flat + plat that's still competitive quality. Wii Fit Studio and Coliseum, for instance, have nothing wrong with them beyond the fact that they're both walkoffs. If their platforms were transplanted onto the Omega form, they'd probably become legal overnight. (Woolly World is probably in a similar boat, if you shrink or remove some of the platforms.) If you nerfed Mom on Gamer so that she only stuns players instead of damaging and killing them, she'd become an interesting way of extending combos and rewarding pressure (remember that she breaks shields) that's heavily reliant on stage positioning. Standardize the layout and it would be perfect.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Port Town's problem is not the cars (which while strong, are fairly avoidable), is the fact the main platform does not have ledges. Sure, there are no tether-only recoveries anymore in this game, but is still a free punish. It can be played out, but the disadvantage is a bit too extreme now (and unlike in Brawl, getting hit by the road leads to easy combos for your opponent).
MKU's has (had?) glitches in which characters suddenly died. Its karts are laughably slow and weak, getting hit by them only leads to self-shame.

That is unfortunently true. So remvove the cars and add ledges to the main platform... I'm just kinda salty because I really like the actual transformations on this stage, and the FD-like nature of the main form helps characters who don't like platforms

 

[Ulevo]

Port Town's problem is not the cars (which while strong, are fairly avoidable), is the fact the main platform does not have ledges. Sure, there are no tether-only recoveries anymore in this game, but is still a free punish. It can be played out, but the disadvantage is a bit too extreme now (and unlike in Brawl, getting hit by the road leads to easy combos for your opponent).
MKU's has (had?) glitches in which characters suddenly died. Its karts are laughably slow and weak, getting hit by them only leads to self-shame.

The main problem with MKU is actually that the stage itself would entirely glitch out. The floors would become invisible and the screen would change spontaneously, and we are not sure what triggers it. I am unsure if this has been patched by this point.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That is unfortunently true. So remvove the cars and add ledges to the main platform... I'm just kinda salty because I really like the actual transformations on this stage, and the FD-like nature of the main form helps characters who don't like platforms

The cars are powerful but pretty easy to avoid. Just ledges would make it an amazing stage.
But in order to be broadly accepted, yes, it would need to remove the cars. But then it would not make sense, design-wise.

The main problem with MKU is actually that the stage itself would entirely glitch out. The floors would become invisible and the screen would change spontaneously, and we are not sure what triggers it. I am unsure if this has been patched by this point.

More or less what I implied but you detailed it greatly. Truly a shame the stage has this.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I've been playing quite a bit on MKU and have not been able to trigger any glitch there. I don't see why it should be seen as any different from, say, the fall-through-the-floor glitches on Delfino and Pokemon Stadium 1 in Brawl - something that occasionally happens but doesn't disqualify an otherwise amazing stage.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

The cars are powerful but pretty easy to avoid. Just ledges would make it an amazing stage.
But in order to be broadly accepted, yes, it would need to remove the cars. But then it would not make sense, design-wise.

More or less what I implied but you detailed it greatly. Truly a shame the stage has this.

Maybe to make the aesthetic work, make the ledged, no-cars version take place at night, so the fighters are on this racetrack when nobody's on it. And the reason why I'm so adamant about the cars being removed is that while they're easy to avoid, they one-hit kill and basiclally halt gameplay for the fe seconds they're on screen. It breaks up the pace of a match and I really don't like that on a potentially legal stage.