Meta Stage Legality Discussion Thread:

[MysteriousSilver]

It's interesting how a lot of stages with interesting mechanics go just that little bit too far and end up unliked for competitive play. I think there's a balance to be had between hazard fest and flat + plat that's still competitive quality. Wii Fit Studio and Coliseum, for instance, have nothing wrong with them beyond the fact that they're both walkoffs. If their platforms were transplanted onto the Omega form, they'd probably become legal overnight. (Woolly World is probably in a similar boat, if you shrink or remove some of the platforms.) If you nerfed Mom on Gamer so that she only stuns players instead of damaging and killing them, she'd become an interesting way of extending combos and rewarding pressure (remember that she breaks shields) that's heavily reliant on stage positioning. Standardize the layout and it would be perfect.

I honestly think there was an intention to make a number of stages noncompetitive. There are so few "middle of the road" ones, and 3DS Japes no longer has Claptrap on a timer (I believe he now appears at random) pushing it decidedly outside of legal status. It's frustrating.

And man oh man does this game need a small neutral stage like Yoshi's.

 

[Ghostbone]

I thought we figured out the PTAD was broken back in Brawl since the transition with the racetrack as a wall to the left and 3 platform has nowhere to stand that can avoid cars (certain cars can jump up to the 3rd platform)
A little bit fuzzy on that but yea, cars definitely need to be removed for the stage to be competitive.

 

[Krysco]

I thought we figured out the PTAD was broken back in Brawl since the transition with the racetrack as a wall to the left and 3 platform has nowhere to stand that can avoid cars (certain cars can jump up to the 3rd platform)
A little bit fuzzy on that but yea, cars definitely need to be removed for the stage to be competitive.

Is there video proof of this? I thought the point of the third, higher platform was to be the safe spot, making the match become a deadly 'king of the hill' kinda deal. I rarely went to the stage in Brawl and still rarely go to it so I'm not experienced with it but whenever I get around to making a video for the stage (it'll be a while) that'd be a good thing for me to remember.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I thought we figured out the PTAD was broken back in Brawl since the transition with the racetrack as a wall to the left and 3 platform has nowhere to stand that can avoid cars (certain cars can jump up to the 3rd platform)
A little bit fuzzy on that but yea, cars definitely need to be removed for the stage to be competitive.

I'm like 90% sure the top platform there is safe but PTAD is in like the bottom 25% of stages I care about so...yeah.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I honestly think there was an intention to make a number of stages noncompetitive. There are so few "middle of the road" ones, and 3DS Japes no longer has Claptrap on a timer (I believe he now appears at random) pushing it decidedly outside of legal status. It's frustrating.

And man oh man does this game need a small neutral stage like Yoshi's.

You mean Yoshi's Island Brawl, right? T&C is a good counterpart to Yoshi's story

 

[ParanoidDrone]

You mean Yoshi's Island Brawl, right? T&C is a good counterpart to Yoshi's story

As long as it's not Yoshi's Island Melee, I'm fine.

(Seriously, screw that stage. I always feel cramped there.)

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I feel someone like Donkey Kong would benefit overly greatly with Melee Yoshi's Island cramped stage and low ceiling and side blast zones. Shoot, they would have to make some revisions I feel to expand the blast zones somewhat while staying true to the original.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I feel someone like Donkey Kong would benefit overly greatly with Melee Yoshi's Island cramped stage and low ceiling and side blast zones. Shoot, they would have to make some revisions I feel to expand the blast zones somewhat while staying true to the original.

Even the ceiling is pretty low. The entire stage is just small in every way you could measure it.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I wonder how a stage like that would be accepted if it was found to be perhaps polarizing in regards to something like its size (which obviously would only come from having it played in tournament settings) but otherwise being a tame stage. I'd welcome it, though I'm probably getting my hopes too high up for its return with the coming direct.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

but it has the battlefield layout, and there are already a ton of low-ceiling stages. I'm REALLY hoping for Brawl Yoshi's Island because it offers a new platform layout that no other stage has.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Why not both?

I'm surprised Brawl Yoshi's Island isn't already in, though I'm kind of meh on shelling out more money on a stage I essentially already have for free on 3DS...eh.

Also, where the heck is Pictochat 2, Arena Ferox, and Prism Tower when you need 'em? Granted, I bet most of the public would just scream "ban" without having even played around with and (re)learning how they work, but I'd love to try all of these again now on a system and controller I can actually play on.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Why not both?

I'm surprised Brawl Yoshi's Island isn't already in, though I'm kind of meh on shelling out more money on a stage I essentially already have for free on 3DS...eh.

Also, where the heck is Pictochat 2, Arena Ferox, and Prism Tower when you need 'em? Granted, I bet most of the public would just scream "ban" without having even played around with and (re)learning how they work, but I'd love to try all of these again now on a system and controller I can actually play on.

I'll take both! :D but in a pinch I'd rather have the Brawl version.

And I'd rather have Melee Pokemon Stadium, Meta Crystal 64, and Prism Tower than Melee Yoshi's tbh

 

[Ghostbone]

I'm like 90% sure the top platform there is safe but PTAD is in like the bottom 25% of stages I care about so...yeah.

Ok so the cars can hit you on the very first transition (flat with two platforms slightly above the ground) even if you're standing on the platforms.

The can also hit you during the transition where there's a gap in the middle of the track and 3 platforms (the middle one lower than the other two) if you're standing on the middle platform.

Haven't been able to replicate cars hitting you on the top platform of the other segment so maybe i was wrong about that, but yea cars are lethal and hit you where you don't expect.

Like you can force players to have to go all the way to the edge of the track to be safe from cars, but then you're just asking for ridiculously early KOs off the side, so really there's no winning.

 

[FullMoon]

Duck Hunt came for free in the 3DS version IIRC. If they port any stages from the 3DS to Wii U they probably will be for free as well.

Prism Tower and Yoshi Island pls

 

[MysteriousSilver]

You mean Yoshi's Island Brawl, right? T&C is a good counterpart to Yoshi's story

Yeah, that was my intention. Apologies for not specifying.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

The only thing against Meta Crystal to my eyes is that, beyond the obvious hacks and mods that include it, it has never appeared beyond the single player mode of N64. Granted I would welcome this stage with the greatest hug I could muster, but its chances realistically aren't that great, unless there's some huge god-like demand for it that makes the dev team fall to their news and give in.

...I hope they do a ballet for past stages someday.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

The only thing against Meta Crystal to my eyes is that, beyond the obvious hacks and mods that include it, it has never appeared beyond the single player mode of N64. Granted I would welcome this stage with the greatest hug I could muster, but its chances realistically aren't that great, unless there's some huge god-like demand for it that makes the dev team fall to their news and give in.

...I hope they do a ballet for past stages someday.

that is EXACTLY why it should be in this game. It's i the category of simple, special, original stages with BF and FD, and while those 2 got the multiplayer treatment in Melee, this one didn't. I'd love to finally play this stage in multiplayer for once in this series' life

 

[Myed]

Any opinions about the FF7 stage?

Only 7 seconds were shown, so take the words below with a grain of salt.

From what I personally can gather, its a stage that changes form while keeping the layout mostly intact throughout a'la PS2

All have a Battlefield-esque layout

Default (Calling it this because it has no associated element) may split in two.

Water is unknown. Despite the appearence of offstage having water, Meta Knight fell through and didnt go into the swimming animation.

Thunder has electrified platforms that stun.

Fire tilts very exaggeratedly.

Dragon shoots out a telegraphed (both audibly and visually) beam that is very large (from the edge of the stage to about a third of the way across the mid platform).

Of course, judgement will be reserved until we get a chance to test, but it's nice to discuss.

 

[Routa]

Reggie: "Bill I want you to build new stage that is as good as DL64."

Bill: "Sure. Hmm... What makes DL64 so good..? Oh I know! The wind hazard! So to make better DL64 I should add more hazards!"

*couple days later*

Reggie: "Now show me that new stage."

*watches the trailer*

Reggie: "Bill... Bill. BILL!!!"

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It probably goes without saying at this point, but I'll be doing a thread on the stage once it's released. I have no idea what most of the summons are called though. Might bring in a friend who's played FF VII.

 

[Ulevo]

As far as stages are concerned I think the best we can hope for is Brawl Yoshi's Story and to have the bugs on Mario Kart U fixed.

 

[teluoborg]

Lightning : Ramuh
Water : Leviathan
Fire : Ifrit
Stage split : Odin
Dragon : Bahamut
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Summon_Materia_(Final_Fantasy_VII)

I'm hoping for an ice version on top of that (and why not a choco mog one lmao).

 

[IvanQuote]

From what I've seen, I feel Midgar will be very similar to Kalos League in terms of Legality. The summons appear to be very devastating, but have a huge telegraph. Depending on the existence of ledges and the laser's duration, Odin and Bahamut will not be a problem. The biggest wrench I see is Ramuh's thing (didn't see whether stun occurs by passing thru them or landing).

 

[RIP|Merrick]

That Battlefield variation is very interesting to me. When I first saw that unveiled in Cloud's trailer, I thought many things. Alpha variations of stages as many people have speculated and talked about, where instead of Final Destination, every stage gets the exact same Battlefield layout, with varying degrees of elements like grass on some and maybe walls? Then the stage split apart and I thought "ooh this looks interesting." Then I saw all sorts of insane explosions and lasers and I immediately thought of otherwise legal stages with hazards in Brawl Minus if people played that before (Specifically Lavaville, which is literally the Smashville layout with Norfair hazards and Final Frustration which is FD but tilts).

I'll be interested to see how exactly this stage works and how strong the hazards are. Sadly no percentages shown, so I can't get a rough indication of how much these roughly do, but I'm going to play the crap out of it regardless.

Also to those few I saw who were saying they liked it 'till things got "weird" as they put it, it's not jank if you know how it works. Though I do wish they would do away with the Battlefield-esque layouts, I think it's absolutely hilarious we have this as a stage. I have a strong feeling data and blast zone wise it's going to be near identical, and it looks like absolute fun.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

After a bit of thought, I realized my initial impressions of the Midgar stage can be summarized by a Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged quote.

"I thought my dreams had finally come true. But then you exploded again. You really need to stop doing that."

 

[FullMoon]

I mean, without the hazards it's basically a fourth Battlefield.

Do we really need a fourth Battlefield.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I mean, without the hazards it's basically a fourth Battlefield.

Do we really need a fourth Battlefield.

No, admittedly. But when I first watched the trailer it was on my phone so it wasn't really obvious that the layout was Battlefield v4.

 

[teluoborg]

The real question is do we need anything but the battlefield layout ?

 

[Routa]

The real question is do we need anything but the battlefield layout ?

By need you mean "need", need or Need need?

Anyways as I have stated before Smash Bros is a fighting game that is heavily based around plathforming along with the normal fighting. If normal fighting games are 2D... Well the plathform elements adds the depth to that 2D and by this we gain 3D fighting game (wtf have I been eating?). So forcing to use only one stage is not a good idea. It removes the very depth of Smash when you narrow the stage list into 1 type of stage.

 

[teluoborg]

That was a joke.

I like this idea of stage list though :
-Battlefield
-Not Battlefield
-Windy Battlefield
-Flat Tilting Battlefield
-Dangerous Battlefield

 

[Routa]

That was a joke.

I like this idea of stage list though :
-Battlefield
-Not Battlefield
-Windy Battlefield
-Flat Tilting Battlefield
-Dangerous Battlefield

Oh... Oh. OH!

And I thought I was good at understanding jokes :S

Well the rope of shame it is once again. It is good to be a cat. 7 lives left after this one.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

That was a joke.

I like this idea of stage list though :
-Battlefield
-Not Battlefield
-Windy Battlefield
-Flat Tilting Battlefield
-Dangerous Battlefield

The Melee list is Battlefield, Not Battlefield, Small Battlefield, Sometimes Battlefield, Large-n'-Windy Battlefield, and Pokemon Stadium. So there's precedent.

I'd prefer greater variety in stage structure though.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

The Melee list is Battlefield, Not Battlefield, Small Battlefield, Sometimes Battlefield, Large-n'-Windy Battlefield, and Pokemon Stadium. So there's precedent.

I'd prefer greater variety in stage structure though.

Yeah, that's one of my big issues with Melee. Though I've been told that beyond the surface level, these stages are actually very different. Even if they probably would act the same under smash 4's engine.

 

[epicnights]

With Xanadu dropping the three traveling stages, it seems more places are going in favor of the conservative. What is your local area's opinion/rule set in regards to them? I know SFL currently still has them legal.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

With Xanadu dropping the three traveling stages, it seems more places are going in favor of the conservative. What is your local area's opinion/rule set in regards to them? I know SFL currently still has them legal.

A local today still has Delfino and Castle Siege on the stage list. But no Duck Hunt. (Why?)

 

[ぱみゅ]

What truly saddens me is that popular LOCALS (and I must emphasize on the fact they are locals: catered to the like 15-20 people that attend them, but it looks way more important than it actually is because they're hosted by one of the most iconic stream teams, VGBC) heavily influence on stage legality rather than any kind of argument to be posted anywhere on the internet.
I'm seriously sick of debating stages because it always hit a brickwall and influential TOs (and Nintendo) simply ban stages for no reason anyway, and others blindly follow despite not having a reason to.

 

[Yikarur]

There is no reason to ban Delfino. Castle Siege is a bit more controversial but I don't see it not legal as well.
7 Stages Stage Lists are terrible...

 

[teluoborg]

Please elaborate on why you think 7 stages lists are terrible.
Bonus points if you avoid using subjective adjectives like "boring".

The only thing that would need fixing on 7s is eventually the presence of DL because it ressembles BF too much.

 

[Cheap Shot]

Not sure if I've posted in the right place but I'm going to run some 3DS tournaments using a 9 stage FLSS system. I made a post about it here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/3ds-legal-stages.402593/page-5#post-20459237

Would you guys mind providing some feedback, either here or in that thread?

 

[epicnights]

Please elaborate on why you think 7 stages lists are terrible.
Bonus points if you avoid using subjective adjectives like "boring".

As of current, 7 stage lists aren't that bad. 3 of the stages promote characters that prefer large surfaces with little platform interference (Duck Hunt, Final Destination, and Town &City), 3 promote SH platform play (Smashville, Lylat, and Battlefield), and three promote FH/DJ platform play (T&C, BF, and Dreamland).

That said, the stagelist is severely lacking in regards to blast zone variance. The stages FD, SV, DL, Lylat, and DH all share the same top blast zone height; the stages FD, SV, T&C, DH, and Lylat all share the same side blast zone width from the ledge. Battlefield is the only stage with non-negligible blast zone differences; T&C, although heralded as the low ceiling stage, is only 3 ft shorter than its animal crossing counterpart, SV. (Much thanks to Ulevo for the blast zone data thread)

The three transforming stages (Delfino Plaza, Halberd, and Castle Seige) all provide noticeably different blast zone sizes. DP alternates between smaller blast zones during transformations and more standardized blast zones in the transitions between. Halberd is infamously known for its low ceiling blastzones. CS has three distinct transformations that differ in blastzones noticeably: the first transformation has average ceiling height and smaller horizontal blastzones, the second transformation having the highest ceiling blastzones and walk offs, and the third transformation having standardized blastzones.

Of course, even this stagelist is lacking in stages that favor horizontal killers, I.E. stages with higher ceilings and closer side blastzones. I'll leave it up to those that have more information on stages such as Skyloft, Wuhu Island, and other more liberal stages to share that information. Overall, the 7 stage lists can be seen as lacking, while the 10 stage list can be seen as passable, however the overall goal is to have a diversity that gives a multitude of play styles reasonable counterpick stages.