stage discussion *currently discussing Halberd and Delfino Plaza*

[Tewx2]

On YI avoid, DK, Snake, Sonic, Lucario.

CP: Peach, Falco, Diddy.

Edit: Smashville is Sheik's second worst neutral in all of her MUs vs tournament viable characters. 1st is yoshi's imo

 

[Judo777]

On YI avoid, DK, Snake, Sonic, Lucario.

CP: Peach, Falco, Diddy.

Edit: Smashville is Sheik's second worst neutral in all of her MUs vs tournament viable characters. 1st is yoshi's imo

This may be true however sheik is pretty good on every neutral except yoshis so i feel that saying SV is worse is negligible compared to lylat BF and FD where they are all pretty good.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*updated*

If no one else has an input I would love to be able to move onto more controversial stages like Brinstar, Norfair, Green Greens and PS1 (her best neutral IMO).

 

[Tewx2]

I think you should save the more controversial stages for last, because they will be run less frequently in tournaments than non-controversial ones.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If someone takes a match from me I am taking them to Norfair, Brinstar or Green Greens.
So if I lose at least once in a set I will be using one of those 3 stages. That's enough to discuss it.
I'm also going to be striking SV and YI every time more than likely. So I will either be going to BF or FD. People that know Sheik seem to always strike BF and it is usually a toss up between FD or PS1.

 

[Luxor]

Oh, btw for vertical kill %'s, the only two stages with SIGNIFICANTLY short vertical blastzones (measured from the main floor to the roof) are YI:M and Green Greens. Apart from those two, really the only things that SIGNIFICANTLY impact vertical kill % are the platforms you may or may not kill from.

.02

 

[Judo777]

If someone takes a match from me I am taking them to Norfair, Brinstar or Green Greens.
So if I lose at least once in a set I will be using one of those 3 stages. That's enough to discuss it.
I'm also going to be striking SV and YI every time more than likely. So I will either be going to BF or FD. People that know Sheik seem to always strike BF and it is usually a toss up between FD or PS1.

People know that sheik strikes BF first? i dont strike BF infact thats her best neutral imo. Again shes good everywhere but BF is so good for sheik why would you strike it? Also be careful who u cp to brinstar and norfair ALOT of characters are good on those stages and some are better than sheik there.

Norfair: Dont cp MK, Marth, DK, Wario, GW there while they may not be better than you there (even tho many are) per say its a bad cp cause its one of their best stages.

Brinstar: Don't cp MK, DK, Luigi, Wario, Gw, Snake or anyone else you you need to run from. They will massacre you there if you arent way better.

 

[clowsui]

Judo CP'd Steel Samurai to Norfair once...that was bad news bears
Also, don't CP Brinstar vs Marth either.

 

[saviorslegacy]

People know that sheik strikes BF first? i dont strike BF infact thats her best neutral imo. Again shes good everywhere but BF is so good for sheik why would you strike it? Also be careful who u cp to brinstar and norfair ALOT of characters are good on those stages and some are better than sheik there.

Norfair: Dont cp MK, Marth, DK, Wario, GW there while they may not be better than you there (even tho many are) per say its a bad cp cause its one of their best stages.

Brinstar: Don't cp MK, DK, Luigi, Wario, Gw, Snake or anyone else you you need to run from. They will massacre you there if you arent way better.

No dude, you read it wrong. The opponents that know Sheik strike BF.
If a Sheik main strikes BF you know they're a n00b.

That is why we need to discuss them. We need to know who are good there and who aren't and good a round about idea of good counter picks for Sheik.

Judo CP'd Steel Samurai to Norfair once...that was bad news bears
Also, don't CP Brinstar vs Marth either.

I would probably try and take Marth to Green Greens since I figure Norfair would also be a bad idea.

 

[Tewx2]

If someone takes a match from me I am taking them to Norfair, Brinstar or Green Greens.
So if I lose at least once in a set I will be using one of those 3 stages. That's enough to discuss it.
I'm also going to be striking SV and YI every time more than likely. So I will either be going to BF or FD. People that know Sheik seem to always strike BF and it is usually a toss up between FD or PS1.

Oh yeah you live in OH, we should discuss custom stages as well.

 

[Judo777]

No dude, you read it wrong. The opponents that know Sheik strike BF.
If a Sheik main strikes BF you know they're a n00b.

That is why we need to discuss them. We need to know who are good there and who aren't and good a round about idea of good counter picks for Sheik.


I would probably try and take Marth to Green Greens since I figure Norfair would also be a bad idea.

Oh ok yea ur right i mis read my bad. A typically CP marth to FD honestly. Marth and sheik are like identical with stages. Its just that marth is a MU where you want to camp more so FD is good choice. If you like Green Greens go for it.

Im just saying the rule for marth is this. Pick a stage you like that they dont like, and if none of those exist pick a stage where you can camp and try to avoid stages you cant. Thats about it. Marth and sheik are like literally identical in stage choices.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*updated
Opinions?


Also, since we are out of neutrals I'll be taking requests on CP stages.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Wake the f*ck up and help. At least agree with the OP.

 

[<π]

norfair is sheiks best stage... utilt and usmash hit through the plats. chain ***** as a recovery tool and for mix ups on teh plats and stuff. needles wreck as ussual.

 

[saviorslegacy]

We aren't discussing Norfair. Did you bother to read the OP?

 

[Tewx2]

This is late but Sheik ***** sonic at BF.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If you tell me how so I'll add him to the CP list at BF.

 

[Tewx2]

Camping under the platform with needles and chain shuts down all of Sonic's approches, he has to go around the platform to hit you which gives ample time to retract the chain. Platforms negate any spring mindgames, He can't effectively approach with ASC, making spin dash virtually his only option, which he can be f-tilted out of, needled out of, pivot grabbed, jabbed, etc.

Sheik can effectively time Sonic out on stages with platforms, excluding YI and Picto due to him gaining invincibility.

 

[-Mars-]

I tried to do that to X before on BF, close match but lost.

 

[Tewx2]

I timed speed out on lylat, he banned bf vs me.

So I only have friendly MU exp here. But it should still apply

 

[Judo777]

I timed speed out on lylat, he banned bf vs me.

So I only have friendly MU exp here. But it should still apply

you timed someone out in friendlies? thats so mean lol

 

[Tewx2]

I haven't but I forced an unsafe approach and punished it.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*updated
We are now discussing Norfair.

 

[Tewx2]

I disagree with Yoshi, JigglyPuff, ROB
And Falco. The first 3 can all super plank us on this stage, and Falco can go to town phantasming away from us with the top platforms. If he gets the lead, he's going to time us out hard, not to mention the tiny platforms make it really easy to tech chase us up to 80% off of one grab, if he stays on the bottom platform our u-Smash isn't going to kill him out of f-tilt lock, and he has 6 safe options for recovery(Top ledge, Top platform, Middle Ledge, Middle platform, bottom ledge, bottom platform.) making it near impossible for us to gimp him. He can also camp the bottom with bair, and when we're above Falco we have little say in the matter.

Personally I wouldn't take D3 here either, for one of the same reason as Falco. He can tech chase his d-throw incredibly well here, and can hard bair camp the bottom once he has the lead. And killing him became much much harder unless you can somehow force him onto the top platform.

JigglyPuff is like a mini Metaknight on this stage, there's so much air that it's near impossible for us to challenge him.

Pretty much the same with Yoshi, platforms give him an escape, we can't florr trap him and from the middle platforms(in height) he can egg camp us hard.

RoB once again can hard plank us here though I don't feel it's that bad of a MU here I heavily disagree with it being a cp.

The same applies to Link and Captain Falcon. This is actually one of their best stages, Link can recover here, and can zair camp the hell out of the bottom platform, and projectile camp the top/middle ones. Captain Falcon platform traps us a hell lot better than we platform trap him.

The rest of these I don't feel like have anything to do with Sheik being good on this stage, it's more they were bad here to begin with.

 

[Judo777]

I disagree with Yoshi, JigglyPuff, ROB
And Falco. The first 3 can all super plank us on this stage, and Falco can go to town phantasming away from us with the top platforms. If he gets the lead, he's going to time us out hard, not to mention the tiny platforms make it really easy to tech chase us up to 80% off of one grab, if he stays on the bottom platform our u-Smash isn't going to kill him out of f-tilt lock, and he has 6 safe options for recovery(Top ledge, Top platform, Middle Ledge, Middle platform, bottom ledge, bottom platform.) making it near impossible for us to gimp him. He can also camp the bottom with bair, and when we're above Falco we have little say in the matter.

Personally I wouldn't take D3 here either, for one of the same reason as Falco. He can tech chase his d-throw incredibly well here, and can hard bair camp the bottom once he has the lead. And killing him became much much harder unless you can somehow force him onto the top platform.

JigglyPuff is like a mini Metaknight on this stage, there's so much air that it's near impossible for us to challenge him.

Pretty much the same with Yoshi, platforms give him an escape, we can't florr trap him and from the middle platforms(in height) he can egg camp us hard.

RoB once again can hard plank us here though I don't feel it's that bad of a MU here I heavily disagree with it being a cp.

The same applies to Link and Captain Falcon. This is actually one of their best stages, Link can recover here, and can zair camp the hell out of the bottom platform, and projectile camp the top/middle ones. Captain Falcon platform traps us a hell lot better than we platform trap him.

The rest of these I don't feel like have anything to do with Sheik being good on this stage, it's more they were bad here to begin with.

Just to mention yoshi can't really plank incase thats what you were saying. Also yoshi shouldn't be getting floor trapped very often if they know what they are doing.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You can't camp here or time out all of the time BTW
Since Jiggs dies at such a low percent and lava destroys her I think this is a good stage to take her to. When I play Mike and on the occasion katakiri and they go Jiggs I am almost always at a lower percent then they are... Sheik is just that way. So jiggs needs to approach to win.

 

[Tewx2]

Just to mention yoshi can't really plank incase thats what you were saying. Also yoshi shouldn't be getting floor trapped very often if they know what they are doing.

He can makeshift plank with dropback on the ledge> egg toss. It's not frame safe, but its annoying as hell.

The floor trap thing, is my bad habit of thinking the default for every matchud is FD.

 

[<π]

real jiggs don't die to lava............

P.S. I'm a real jiggs...

 

[Judo777]

He can makeshift plank with dropback on the ledge> egg toss. It's not frame safe, but its annoying as hell.

The floor trap thing, is my bad habit of thinking the default for every matchud is FD.

yoshi can only throw 5 eggs while on the ledge before he has to get back on stage. Just block 5 times then wait cause he doesn't have very good get up options.

And even on FD yoshi is way too fast in the air not to mention by b-reversing egg lays you should never even be very close to where he is gonna land for the most part. Its like snake plucking grenades to juke you while falling only make it about twice as fast lol.

 

[-Mars-]

If he's b-reversing egg lays before he touches the ground shouldn't you just be giving him a nice needle storm?

 

[Judo777]

If he's b-reversing egg lays before he touches the ground shouldn't you just be giving him a nice needle storm?

no not before he hits the ground much earlier in the air. Like just if he sees you committing to hes previous landing spot then he'll b reverse. And yea needles are pretty free.

 

[Tewx2]

Floor trapping with needles was what I was thinking about. But he only gets 5 eggs? I didn't know that before, thx.

Also SL on norfair it's easier to time someone out than most stages, the hazards are useful for this. If you have good air mobility, you can camp the top and middle, and if you can control the bottom platform then really the only hazard that has the chance of messing you up are the fire pillars, which are avoidable.

 

[saviorslegacy]

So far pretty much every time I update the main discussion is over the CP's and disadvantages.
We need to think like a Reb!!!!!! (Critique what I say in "mindset..." and "control!".)

 

[-Mars-]

WTF. Don't ever compare Sheik to the Confederates. WTF man.

I do not know what goes through that head of yours sometimes.....ignorance I guess.

 

[Tewx2]

The confederates got their ***** whooped. Horrible analogy.

 

[Judo777]

yea saviours i wouldn't ever make that comparison again if i were you. Infact you might want to consider editing that post seriously that crap is mad offensive to alot of people.

@ tutu yea he only gets 5 eggs because 5 eggs are all he gets when hes recovering to give him lift. His egg tosses only refesh when he touches the ground. So if yoshi is planking just block a maximum of 5 eggs (although i dont think the 5th egg will even make it on stage) then wait bcause he has to get off. If they try to throw another he will miss the ledge and have to recover with only his double jump. The lag from the egg toss however makes him have to grab the ledge from the double jump. So if they do try and throw a 6th egg grab the ledge and yoshi dies.

Also just to comment on your norfair post i would think the rising lava would actually be the worst hazard when trying to control the bottom plat lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

How the heck can that be offensive?
The Union was oppressing the South with taxes and the threat of increased power over the people.
Long story short..... watch Of Gods and Generals.
And in case you didn't know the war wasn't a war against slavery. The history books number 1, don't give enough information and 2, capitalize on the wrong things.

TBH, I love the CSA. I hate slavery, but the CSA wasn't about slavery.
I even bought a Civil War revolver because I love it so much. Heck, I even have the flags hanging up in my room.

BTW, I is not racist. If any of you think that, you got it wrong.

ps Ignorance does go through my head. Just look at the Saltus combo! xD
But the Civil War is something that I have studied for a very long time. Mainly because of grandpa who was a stonch yankee. He died in September, so I guess I win the arguement on the fact that the opposing party has left.

@tutu If the South did not lose so many of their strategic minds then they would have won. The South was winning at the beginning of the war. I betcha if Thomas Jackson wasn't killed by friendly fire that he would have marched all of the way to DC.

 

[-Mars-]

How the heck can that be offensive?
The Union was oppressing the South with taxes and the threat of increased power over the people.
Long story short..... watch Of Gods and Generals.
And in case you didn't know the war wasn't a war against slavery. The history books number 1, don't give enough information and 2, capitalize on the wrong things.

TBH, I love the CSA. I hate slavery, but the CSA wasn't about slavery.
I even bought a Civil War revolver because I love it so much. Heck, I even have the flags hanging up in my room.

BTW, I is not racist. If any of you think that, you got it wrong.

ps Ignorance does go through my head. Just look at the Saltus combo! xD
But the Civil War is something that I have studied for a very long time. Mainly because of grandpa who was a stonch yankee. He died in September, so I guess I win the arguement on the fact that the opposing party has left.

@tutu If the South did not lose so many of their strategic minds then they would have won. The South was winning at the beginning of the war. I betcha if Thomas Jackson wasn't killed by friendly fire that he would have marched all of the way to DC.

If you don't see how that can be offensive than you truly are ignorant.

Civil War was over States' Rights....with the main issue about those rights being the issue of having slaves.

You have a confederate flag hanging in your room?? Kill yourself.

SOuth wouldn't have won anyways. Not enough men and resources the North was far larger. Also once Sherman took over ripping through Georgia and burning everything it was pretty much game over.

 

[Kisamealex3]

If you don't see how that can be offensive than you truly are ignorant.

Civil War was over States' Rights....with the main issue about those rights being the issue of having slaves.

You have a confederate flag hanging in your room?? Kill yourself.

SOuth wouldn't have won anyways. Not enough men and resources the North was far larger. Also once Sherman took over ripping through Georgia and burning everything it was pretty much game over.

popcorn.gif

 

[Judo777]

Why does it matter if they would have, could have, or should have won? they didn't so who cares. Regardless of whether it was the main reason for the war, that was A reason for the war which is more than enough for people to take offense.

Also saviours for someone who isn't racist you sure have no issues referring to Ankoku as yellow.

Regardless of all of this ONE of the issues during the civil war was over slavery. The confederacy was on the side that was OK with slavery and the Union was not. Slavery is wrong so its a very simple correlation and alot of people can easily take offense. If Crash came in here and read it he would rip you a new one on the forums. I would edit the post dude for real.