~ Stage Counterpicking List ~

[Kashakunaki]

Why is Corneria an obvious ban for Ness? Just curious.

I'm not sure... I think Mute City seems like a good stage against Fox. What with his easily guardable recovery and close quarters. It doesn't give him room to run circles around you.

 

[Gea]

Why is Corneria an obvious ban for Ness? Just curious.

I'm not sure... I think Mute City seems like a good stage against Fox. What with his easily guardable recovery and close quarters. It doesn't give him room to run circles around you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daoLcPGxeyA

While he can't stall during a tourny, he can still use the regular ships to heal, he doesn't have to worry about recovering, can kill off the top/sides. All around a solid Ness stage.

 

[Kashakunaki]

That was ridiculous though the Pikachu could've done a lot better... like, I don't know, teching the ****ing throw.

Point proven, however. I'll be sure to ban Corneria if playing Ness, haha.

 

[BAMN]

Wondering about the Samus matchup:
Is taking Samus to Corneria a good idea?

 

[Kashakunaki]

Hmm. Not sure. Look at Smashmac's guide.

 

[Bullet Bill]

sadly enough, MKII is baned over here, so i dont play it -> no experience, and my experience against ness is close to non-existent

oh well, i just tried to type something for ness, but realized i´d just be guessing Oo

sry

LOL. I can't believe MKII is legal in America. Backthrow ftw

 

[Gea]

LOL. I can't believe MKII is legal in America. Backthrow ftw

Only as doubles.

 

[Dogysamich]

um.. no, counterpicks like that are kinda region dependant.

MKII is perfectly legal all around down here.

I hate it though. XD

 

[Bullet Bill]

Only as doubles.

Banner = too **** good

 

[HiIH]

Well I main Link... but second Doc.

In light of that I'll list some good stages to go against Link on. Alot of Link's play is heightened from platform tricks, so you'd probably want to ban the battlefield and FoD, and probably Yoshi's story.

Hmm, for counterpicks I'm personally unsure. Probably a stage that doesn't have a long fall. It's alot harder for a link to get back if he can't get under the ledge to far, since it'd be near impossible for him to sweetspot with his spin attack and be dangerous to fall tethered with his hook shot that wasn't sweet spotted.

 

[Gea]

I think Link does better in this matchup on flat ground, personally. His strengths against Doc are amplified by Doc's lack of approach... though Doc has things like grab-pwnage. Hmmm. I'd want other opinions on the matter.

Bullet Bill: I KNOSS! Its too good.

 

[HiIH]

Link controls a stage with platforms much better than a flat stage, where doc could pill spam and essentially shut down Link's projectile spam better, not to mention cape boomerangs and bombs (and against a slightly more noobish Link) charged arrows much easier?

I'm curious why you think Link would be at a greater advantage on flat ground?

 

[Gea]

He can actually camp better there. I have a MUCH harder time approaching a flatground Link because of my range v his and his hookshot. It kills a ground approach basically and forces me into the air where he can easily out-spam me.

That sounds alot worse than it is, because once I get to him its ****, but it definitely gives me more problems than platforms where I can generally follow him easier and hookshot is less of a threat.

 

[Bullet Bill]

links grab is avoidable approcahing or not. I think DK 64 should be a good pick against link as he can't hookshot the edge. but then I think yoshi's story would be good as well. FD is all well and good but it just turns into spam war

 

[Bullet Bill]

hmmmm. Doc has no lack of approach. Most of link's attacks are slow including his sheildgrab so IMO Doc has no problem with approaching link.

 

[Dogysamich]

Well I main Link... but second Doc.

In light of that I'll list some good stages to go against Link on. Alot of Link's play is heightened from platform tricks, so you'd probably want to ban the battlefield and FoD, and probably Yoshi's story.

Hmm, for counterpicks I'm personally unsure. Probably a stage that doesn't have a long fall. It's alot harder for a link to get back if he can't get under the ledge to far, since it'd be near impossible for him to sweetspot with his spin attack and be dangerous to fall tethered with his hook shot that wasn't sweet spotted.

Albany, GA; eh?

I might be able to play you sometimes if you ever get a hold of JX31. I'm gunna be keeping him company this semester since he's not with CDE.

 

[Gea]

hmmmm. Doc has no lack of approach. Most of link's attacks are slow including his sheildgrab so IMO Doc has no problem with approaching link.

Finally I can respond. Stupid SWF are so messed up sometimes. Alright. See, I think its different. On platforms you get the nifty way of being able to pressure with uairs and stay relatively close, cutting down on spam. Yes, there are more uair/dair setups for Link but...

On FD I find they usually just wanna plat cat and mouse. If you try to DD or wavedash in their grab range, they will just grab you out. Yeah, its a risky move that you can force them to miss and abuse the lag... but they aren't gonna grab you like that with platforms. Besides that it allows you to edgeguard easier by sliding off and bairing from above.

I see it as twofold. You get your throwgame amp'd via flatground and they have less setups, but at the same time it can be a frustrating match on FD.

I find myself doing better on FoD and Yoshi's. That's me, which is why I ask for varying opinions.

 

[Chris7x]

I find myself doing better on FoD and Yoshi's. That's me, which is why I ask for varying opinions.

I love taking links to Yoshi Story. I don't really have a technical reason but Its still a good place for me. I guess edgeguarding's easier for me on that stage.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Sorry for the sorta double post >_> But im starting to really like playing marths in Yoshis Story. Yeah I know it sounds pretty crazy, But its just the fact that I can gimp there pretty easily with ledgedropped bairs. The edges make it really easy to waveland into the stage and put your shield up to protect whatever marth has. If you guys wanna see a video of me playing on Yoshis Story vs marth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyDerv_lFEg

I know marth's range is pretty gay there sometimes, but its just a good stage for me. I know I still sound crazy even after an explanation xD I guess im just so used to the stage.

 

[Dogysamich]

um... play a marth that actually spaces well and has a good grab approach/grab game and you wont say that. >.>

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Yeah the videos a bad example, but I have had to go there alot vs marths in tournaments, and I'd have to say i've beat some pretty decent marths there. Its just my preference, nobody should really follow it lol. Maybe possibly If I go to my next tournament soon i'll see if I can get a match recorded.

 

[pockyD]

most players don't have problems WD-ing onto the stage on any stage

i'd love to hear what good marths are in your area, because as far as i remember, easton, pa is devoid of real smash

edit: also wtf at doc picking mute city or brinstar... BAD IDEA

 

[Dogysamich]

most players don't have problems WD-ing onto the stage on any stage

i'd love to hear what good marths are in your area, because as far as i remember, easton, pa is devoid of real smash

edit: also wtf at doc picking mute city or brinstar... BAD IDEA

In general, yes it's bad.

But against a space animal, both are good choices.

Against a CF, Mute City is a ****ing amazing stage.

Mute City works wonders if your opponent is running away from you and you cant catch them. It takes away their running option while still giving you a flat stage to CG.

__

However, if YOu are the one trying to get away, then yeah, mute city is bad. XD

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

i'd love to hear what good marths are in your area, because as far as i remember, easton, pa is devoid of real smash

Well there aren't too many of us, but its basically a doc, samus, marth, and falco. I've seen you before at a Lancaster tournament during the summer, I knew it was you because you had a pockyd shirt on xD

Well I try hard to attend spoc often, But I don't think I've seen you in any of them yet/missed you. Im gonna try hard to make it to the next one but I have no ride as of now :x

On topic: I'm gonna try those two stages next time my crew gets together (tomorrow) I'm curious to see how good brinstar is for doc.

 

[pockyD]

i don't live on the east coast anymore -_-

but you should talk to velocity (from philly) - best doc player (well, main - m2k lives there too) in the area, and hates brinstar with a passion

i just think doc gains very little from weird terrain, while his edgeguarding definitely suffers there

it's just really too bad there aren't 5 FD's so it can't be banned/DSR'd away

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Yeah, he gave me some useful advice, he also ***** me in dittos a while back lol. He got me dthrowing usmashing at early percents rather than utilting. I don't really like the counterpick stages with doc lol.

 

[Dogysamich]

On topic: I'm gonna try those two stages next time my crew gets together (tomorrow) I'm curious to see how good brinstar is for doc.

but you should talk to velocity (from philly) - best doc player (well, main - m2k lives there too) in the area, and hates brinstar with a passion

i just think doc gains very little from weird terrain, while his edgeguarding definitely suffers there

it's just really too bad there aren't 5 FD's so it can't be banned/DSR'd away

It's not that doc gains anything from counterpicks as much as your opponent loses something.

And ****, i wish i had enough sense to ban FD against some people. >.>

 

[Gea]

I should probably update this, shouldn't I?

 

[Dogysamich]

yeah.

lets see.

add Rainbow Cruise to the ban list against Capfal
add KJ64 to the CP list against Samus
add KJ64 to the CP list against Link
add YS to the CP list against Ness

 

[Gea]

Alright, done with that. I should really try out Mute on Falcon more. I usually go FoD or Japes. Hmm...

 

[Dogysamich]

Its bad for you (doc), but it's soooooooooooooooo much worse for capfal.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Wait... Rainbow Cruise is good for Falcon? Since when? @_@

FoD SUCKS for Falcon. If I had a nickel for every time my stomps or knees got eaten by the stupid platforms...

I'd prolly have like a dollar. But still.

Hmmm... generally though, when I'm playing against Falcon as an unfamiliar char (or if I'm feeling lame and gimpy) I just sit on one end of the platform and wait (or spam a projectile if I have it). It makes it harder for them, I think, because they actually have to concentrate on shffl'ing so that they don't fly off the stage and get edgeguarded and also not get shieldgrabbed.

 

[Dogysamich]

Wait... Rainbow Cruise is good for Falcon? Since when? @_@

its not amazing for them, but i've seen and known plenty of falcons to CP moving stages.

Some do like it, some dont.

 

[otg]

I'm curious about a few of the bans.

Falco: Why ban FoD? Final D I can understand, even though it's chainthrow city.

Sheik: Battlefield? Again why?

Other than that, fantastic list though.

 

[Dogysamich]

I'm curious about a few of the bans.

Falco: Why ban FoD? Final D I can understand, even though it's chainthrow city.

Sheik: Battlefield? Again why?

Other than that, fantastic list though.

if you play a falco who's big into combos and platform tricks, Fod is a nightmare. It's small enough that he doesnt get abused by his recovery, it's small enough that you cant really run from him, and you have to deal with the platforms, which HELP his combos.

as for sheik and battlefield; i some peopele a while ago about sheik and battlefield and they say sheik does ridiculously well on battlefield, so i just always banned it.

--shrug-- I dunno beyond that. I mean, if you actually LIKE battlefield go for it, but i personally dont like it.

 

[Gea]

They can gimp you extra well on BF because of how it forces you to recover. Once you're off, its a free stock there if they are any good. I mean if you're needled near the edge it can suck you under or you have to immediately up + B and just land on the stage, plenty of her stuff can go through the lip, etc.

 

[Neverender]

It seems like i always get gayed at BF against fox. Should i go for the ban for that?

 

[otg]

It seems like i always get gayed at BF against fox. Should i go for the ban for that?

If you really feel like you do poorly against him on BF than ban away, in the end it's about your comfort in CPing. Fox's Usmash and Uair **** on Yoshi's though, so that might be your safest bet overall, but once again it's all up to you.

He'll probably ban FD on you, so bring him to MKII if you can, that stage is ****.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik: Battlefield? Again why?

I'd think it's because Sheik jews Doc's recovery extra hard there, and that the 3-platform arrangement is too good for her because mostly what owns Doc is her amazing range fighting his crappy range, and the platforms there are very conducive to Bair/Fair/Needle spam by Sheik (none of those are particularly ccable either). They dead zones are also somewhat far, which means she has more time to recover and DI and make it back and stuff so you don't even have the gimpy walls of Yoshi's or FoD to look forward to when you're edgeguarding her (remember; you have to make her actually die outright when you edgeguard). The high platforms also give her more places to go when she's being edgeguarded, which sucks.

 

[otg]

I'd think it's because Sheik jews Doc's recovery extra hard there, and that the 3-platform arrangement is too good for her because mostly what owns Doc is her amazing range fighting his crappy range, and the platforms there are very conducive to Bair/Fair/Needle spam by Sheik (none of those are particularly ccable either). They dead zones are also somewhat far, which means she has more time to recover and DI and make it back and stuff so you don't even have the gimpy walls of Yoshi's or FoD to look forward to when you're edgeguarding her (remember; you have to make her actually die outright when you edgeguard). The high platforms also give her more places to go when she's being edgeguarded, which sucks.

Very true, I'll definitely take that into consideration from now on, although my experience with Sheik on pretty much any level is ****