Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

[KlefkiHolder]

I'm not sure why it matters if we have zero, one, or nine N64 stages since a stage is a stage and it's about how many good stages we have and not where they came from (and honestly, this was by far the best choice for an N64 stage).

Whoa whoa whoa.

How dare you say such blasphemy?! Don't you know that DL64 is the best stage ever?!

(After FoD ofc... Sakurai, bring back FoD!)

But yeah this stage list is really amazing. We have at least 15 legal stages if you're going by more conservative lists.

15 is a lot, especially when the most popular game in the series competitively right now only supports 6 (which is actually my favorite stage list out of the 5 games in the series, but that's a different discusion for a different day)

 

[Piford]

No new F-Zero or Earthbound stage? I mean I know we got new ones in the 3DS version but still

Anyways let's see what we got.

Certainly legal are: Battlefield, FD, Lylat, Smashville, Town and City, Haliberd, Castle Siege
These were all legal in Brawl (+town) and assuming nothing drastic has somehow changed about any of them they should be fine now too.

Very likely legal: Duck Hunt, Pilotwings, Delfino Plaza
Delfino was a fringe case in Brawl due to Metaknight. The other two are hazardless but new so it's hard to be 100% sure on them but it's pretty likely.

Likely legal: Skyloft, Wuhu Island
These stages look good but are brand new so a bit of playtesting would be nice just to be sure. Even if every stage below this isn't used, we still have 12 stages.

Possibly legal: Big Battlefield, Kongo 64, Pokemon Stadium 2, Norfair, Windy Hill
These stages possibly might not be legal due to the possibility of circle camping or maybe the hazards are too disruptive, but they don't seem so bad that they can be written off yet. Definitely needs testing to make sure.

Neutral Walkoffs: Mario Galaxy, Coliseum, Wii Fit
These stages are totally neutral, but are walkoffs which are always controversial. They're worth giving a good look at now especially since there are no chaingrabs and projectiles have mostly been tuned down in this game.

Maybe: Mario World (gotta test nabbit firsthand), Mario Circuit 8, Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Hijinx, Port Town, Wooly World, Orbital Gate, Kalos, Skyworld, Gamer, Garden of Hope, Wrecking Crew
These stages are probably controversial enough that if they are legal they won't be more than counterpicks. Still worth testing though for sure.

Not so neutral walkoffs: Mario Circuit Brawl, Bridge of Eldin, Boxing Ring, Onett
Very likely to be ignored, abut the hazards on these stages aren't actually that bad, and if it weren't for the walkoffs these stages would probably have a better chance.

No: Temple, Ridleyland, Yoshi's Island, Great Cave, Flatzone X, Palutena's, Gaur Plains, 75m, Wiliy's Castle, MS Paint land
Just no.

This is pretty good, except I'd switch Delphino and Skyloft, as Skyloft seems to have the best transformations.

I'd also split Maybe, because there's the ones that are likely legal there and the ones that are likely banned. I'd split it like this (also in order from most likely to least likely on the list),

More Likely Legal: Orbital Gate Assault, Mario Circuit (Wii U), Luigi's Mansion, Wooly World

More Likely Banned: Jungle Hijinx, Wrecking Crew, Garden of Hope, Port Town Aero Dive, Kalos Pokemon League, Skyworld, Gamer

 

[Thinkaman]

I continue to have complete pessimism on walkoffs. Even the possibility of walk-off camping is an experience-ruining poison.

Like there is no situation where someone gets walk-off camped, and anyone involved says "Yes, this is the quality competitive experience I came here for today."


To avoid being a negative nancy, I will otherwise echo sentiments of "Holy crap, this stage list looks both huge and wonderful!"

 

[guedes the brawler]

Here is my analysis, which i posted on Gfaqs. you guys sure helped me form an opinion, too...

Final Destination, Battlefiled, Miiverse, Town and City, Smashville - all 100% Legal AND neutral; no question.

Big Battlefield - Might be big enough to make Camping and Circle Camping problems, and while this could be CP's, some characters with ledge/platform ATs might get ridiculous here (Pikachu and Palutena in particular) and it might be banned... but Obviously legal for Doubles

Mario Galaxy, Coliseum, Wii Fit Studio - Camping has been weakened and chaingrabs are gone, so Walk-offs are MUCH more fair this time around; but they might still be too bad for competitive play. These require testing but it's doubtable the community will ever accept them. the first two might be too big for Singles.

Mushroom Kingdom U and Kalos Pokemon League - We once though these stages were fine but there is just too much going on at once in both, Nabbit and Registeel in particular ruin these stages almost by themselves. Banned.

Mario Circuit 8 and Orbital Gate Assault - These look like a mess, but THEY ARE NOT!, they are predictable, and reward knowing the stage without being obtuse. wall jumping and teching solve the problems with the areas that block a blast line in MK8, a small missile that deals 10% is the only true hazard in OGA.

Delfino Plaza, Norfair, Castle and Halberd - These stages were a problem in brawl due to Meta Shark and ledge mechanics, should be obvious counterpicks with those problems solved. some were that in Brawl already.

Luigi's Mansion - Some of it's problems are solved by the change in mechanics, such as jab locks being gone, but the first floor still is incredibly wonky and it takes some time to effectively get rid of a circle camper here, so this might be just like brawl - Banned, or given a chance and banned either way.

Mario Circuit (brawl) - it's already unlikely that the 3 passive walk-off stages will ever get a change, imagine this one which has hazards? might actually be ok, but the community will probably not accept it.

Jungle Hijinx - Has potential for Circle Camping, but needs testing to see if the barrel exploding on you won't deal witht hat problem. Background area is a bit wonky, especially the left part, so it ALSO has camping potential. Neeeds testing, but is probably banned; but might be CP in doubles.

75M, Temple, Great Cave Offensive, Boxing Ring and Palutena's temple - lol

Kongo Jungle - Circle Camping now might not be a problem anymore due to the characters being bigger and the rotating platforms going higher. This stage could even be neutral! undoubtedly so for doubles.

Skyloft and Wuhu Island - Kinda like Delfino Plaza, no reason not to ban those as of now, but definitely not neutral. Actually, i can see Skyloft being neutral in doubles, but maybe not.

Pyrosphere, Gaur Plains and Wily castle - Disruptive Boss. a pity, because besides Gaur, they were really Legal material, and Gaur actually could work for doubles. Oh, er, i heard Metal Face doesn't appear if we have 8 people, it might stall matches for a minute but Gaur has a shot in doubles if this is true

Wolly World - Might be a bit too big, and the layout is a bit awkward when flying, and it has walk-offs otherwise. i see this as another maybe-fair stage that won't be accepted anyways

Yoshi's Island, Onnet and Skyworld - Still have the same problems as in the previous games, still banned, not that they'd be accepted if fair anyways.

Lylat Cruise and Pilotwings - These tilt a bit, but are otherwise fine. Legal for sure, but Lylat has more of a chance of being neutral.

Pokemon Stadium 2 - Each form had problems in brawl and they are all gone or mitigated here: Electric's conveyor belts are slower, Flying's wind is less disruptive due to changes in gravity, Ice previously increased the chance of tripping and, lastly, the wall infinites on Ground are no more. Could end up being CP, but the stigma of Banned it had might make it hard to be accepted, so i don't see much hope for it.

Port Town - If the cars are weaker, this could be cP just like Mute City once was in Melee, i don't see hope for it though. unless ledges can be grabbed...

Flat Zone X - both 1 and 2 were messes in previous games, so yeah. Banned

Gamer - Mom's actually not that bad, but it's a decently big hazard, has random layouts and one of those has a cave of life. not much hope for it.

Garden of Hope - Aristocrab is actually predictable enough, but the stage is a bit large. might not make it for singles, but is a yes for doubles!

Windy Hill - windmill cna't be camped on, and the springs won't really affect any match-ups besides mac's, so yeah... it's decently big tho, might not make it into singles but will in doubles.

Pac land - Looks mostly fine, but it Is a scrolling stage... banned...

Duck Hunt - Tree could bring camping witha few specific characters (Mario) but i don't really see it being banned, it has a shot at legal but i think CP is where it will be.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Pilotwings could create problems in the Red plane with the passable wings on the sides leading to the lower wings. Could encourage camping under them, a la Venom from Melee. It's at least only a temporary stage layout though, and the layout isn't as bad as Venom from Melee.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I won't have a Wii u for a while could someone test if Wrecking Crew does run out eventually in a normal match, or that was just an event fibbing.

 

[Piford]

Here is my analysis, which i posted on Gfaqs. you guys sure helped me form an opinion, too...

Final Destination, Battlefiled, Miiverse, Town and City, Smashville - all 100% Legal AND neutral; no question.

Big Battlefield - Might be big enough to make Camping and Circle Camping problems, and while this could be CP's, some characters with ledge/platform ATs might get ridiculous here (Pikachu and Palutena in particular) and it might be banned... but Obviously legal for Doubles

Mario Galaxy, Coliseum, Wii Fit Studio - Camping has been weakened and chaingrabs are gone, so Walk-offs are MUCH more fair this time around; but they might still be too bad for competitive play. These require testing but it's doubtable the community will ever accept them. the first two might be too big for Singles.

Mushroom Kingdom U and Kalos Pokemon League - We once though these stages were fine but there is just too much going on at once in both, Nabbit and Registeel in particular ruin these stages almost by themselves. Banned.

Mario Circuit 8 and Orbital Gate Assault - These look like a mess, but THEY ARE NOT!, they are predictable, and reward knowing the stage without being obtuse. wall jumping and teching solve the problems with the areas that block a blast line in MK8, a small missile that deals 10% is the only true hazard in OGA.

Delfino Plaza, Norfair, Castle and Halberd - These stages were a problem in brawl due to Meta Shark and ledge mechanics, should be obvious counterpicks with those problems solved. some were that in Brawl already.

Luigi's Mansion - Some of it's problems are solved by the change in mechanics, such as jab locks being gone, but the first floor still is incredibly wonky and it takes some time to effectively get rid of a circle camper here, so this might be just like brawl - Banned, or given a chance and banned either way.

Mario Circuit (brawl) - it's already unlikely that the 3 passive walk-off stages will ever get a change, imagine this one which has hazards? might actually be ok, but the community will probably not accept it.

Jungle Hijinx - Has potential for Circle Camping, but needs testing to see if the barrel exploding on you won't deal witht hat problem. Background area is a bit wonky, especially the left part, so it ALSO has camping potential. Neeeds testing, but is probably banned; but might be CP in doubles.

75M, Temple, Great Cave Offensive, Boxing Ring and Palutena's temple - lol

Kongo Jungle - Circle Camping now might not be a problem anymore due to the characters being bigger and the rotating platforms going higher. This stage could even be neutral! undoubtedly so for doubles.

Skyloft and Wuhu Island - Kinda like Delfino Plaza, no reason not to ban those as of now, but definitely not neutral. Actually, i can see Skyloft being neutral in doubles, but maybe not.

Pyrosphere, Gaur Plains and Wily castle - Disruptive Boss. a pity, because besides Gaur, they were really Legal material, and Gaur actually could work for doubles. Oh, er, i heard Metal Face doesn't appear if we have 8 people, it might stall matches for a minute but Gaur has a shot in doubles if this is true

Wolly World - Might be a bit too big, and the layout is a bit awkward when flying, and it has walk-offs otherwise. i see this as another maybe-fair stage that won't be accepted anyways

Yoshi's Island, Onnet and Skyworld - Still have the same problems as in the previous games, still banned, not that they'd be accepted if fair anyways.

Lylat Cruise and Pilotwings - These tilt a bit, but are otherwise fine. Legal for sure, but Lylat has more of a chance of being neutral.

Pokemon Stadium 2 - Each form had problems in brawl and they are all gone or mitigated here: Electric's conveyor belts are slower, Flying's wind is less disruptive due to changes in gravity, Ice previously increased the chance of tripping and, lastly, the wall infinites on Ground are no more. Could end up being CP, but the stigma of Banned it had might make it hard to be accepted, so i don't see much hope for it.

Port Town - If the cars are weaker, this could be cP just like Mute City once was in Melee, i don't see hope for it though. unless ledges can be grabbed...

Flat Zone X - both 1 and 2 were messes in previous games, so yeah. Banned

Gamer - Mom's actually not that bad, but it's a decently big hazard, has random layouts and one of those has a cave of life. not much hope for it.

Garden of Hope - Aristocrab is actually predictable enough, but the stage is a bit large. might not make it for singles, but is a yes for doubles!

Windy Hill - windmill cna't be camped on, and the springs won't really affect any match-ups besides mac's, so yeah... it's decently big tho, might not make it into singles but will in doubles.

Pac land - Looks mostly fine, but it Is a scrolling stage... banned...

Duck Hunt - Tree could bring camping witha few specific characters (Mario) but i don't really see it being banned, it has a shot at legal but i think CP is where it will be.

Some Slight criticism. Castle Siege was never a problem in Brawl. The only issue was the walk-offs, which is now completely solved. Nothing having to do with Sharking, Meta Knight, or Ledge mechanics.

You can't really say stages are neutral or counterpick without playing on them first. It should be proven that the stage gives an advantage to a large number or characters or a specific style before saying "Oh yeah that's definitely a counterpick." You can't really say Skyloft is a neutral or a counterpick because we haven't really played on it and tested everything, same goes for every other stage. Also say starter not neutral.

For Pokemon Stadium 2 don't say "I don't see much hope for it" say "there's nothing majorly wrong with it so we should make sure it isn't banned"

 

[smashmachine]

I won't have a Wii u for a while could someone test if Wrecking Crew does run out eventually in a normal match, or that was just an event fibbing.

just an event, I believe

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

just an event, I believe

I don't want an "I believe." I want a straight yes or no. No one has really tried it yet so hey, why not?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Some Slight criticism. Castle Siege was never a problem in Brawl. The only issue was the walk-offs, which is now completely solved. Nothing having to do with Sharking, Meta Knight, or Ledge mechanics.

You can't really say stages are neutral or counterpick without playing on them first. It should be proven that the stage gives an advantage to a large number or characters or a specific style before saying "Oh yeah that's definitely a counterpick." You can't really say Skyloft is a neutral or a counterpick because we haven't really played on it and tested everything, same goes for every other stage. Also say starter not neutral.

For Pokemon Stadium 2 don't say "I don't see much hope for it" say "there's nothing majorly wrong with it so we should make sure it isn't banned"

i don't get what happened with castle siede, iw orte stuff about ti. i guess i accidentally deleted it and did some wierd stuff when i ran out of characters to write with on Gfaqs.

as for the neutral/starter thing, sorry, i generally use neutral here. Starter doesn't really translate well to Portuguese, it's a personal thing.

as for the CP/Starter one, i'm just guessing from what i saw and from what we alreayd know on 3DS, i think it's enough material to deduce this. i'm not saying i'm 100% right, mind you.

lastly, on PS2, i am being sincere, it's jus tlike on walk-offs, i'm sure people will flame the stage because brawl and stuff and not actually bother to try to make it legal. or play it when it's legal unless the match-up advantage is great...

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

So...I know this pretty much doesn't matter anymore but:

Ho-oh is the fire stage hazard.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm madly curious to see what Ho-oh does. Sacred Fire?

 

[LiteralGrill]

I will have the game preloaded and will be playing it all night into the next day. use @ LiteralGrill to give me questions you want answered on stages and I'll try my best!

 

[SonicZeroX]

I just saw some more footage of Nabbit.

You can break out of his sack, but if you do he just comes back and tries to grab someone else.


Wow on Kalos on the Metal transformation, there's a puddle of liquid metal that gives you the metal box effect. This stage just does NOT want to be legal.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

@ LiteralGrill
How are things like Kirby's Up throw in Wrecking crew? Is it bad or can we work with it? I won't be able to play it until later on tonight.

 

[Ghoti]

Here are my thoughts on stage legality:

Definite Neutrals:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Possible Neutrals:
Lylat Cruise
Big Battlefield

Counterpicks:
Wuhu Island
Pilotwings
Skyloft
Town and City
Delfino Plaza

Stages to be considered for legality:
Halberd
Windy Hill
Wooly World

 

[LiteralGrill]

@ LiteralGrill
How are things like Kirby's Up throw in Wrecking crew? Is it bad or can we work with it? I won't be able to play it until later on tonight.

Kirby could probably abuse this, and in all honesty the stage is just really huge. Even with collapsing walls since more constantly replace them circle camping will probably be a thing here.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Kirby could probably abuse this, and in all honesty the stage is just really huge. Even with collapsing walls since more constantly replace them circle camping will probably be a thing here.

Did you take it in mind that the format and spacing of platforms will always be different?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Did you take it in mind that the format and spacing of platforms will always be different?

I did. I still honestly feel the stage is just much too massive and run away is quite strong there. It may be because my wife likes to play as Samus that I got it particularly bad, but running away there is just a very real and easy possibility from the matches we played.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Okay so yeah having played Big Battlefield it really is WAY too big and SUPER easy to run away forever in a 1v1. Unfortunately Duck Hunt and Kongo Jungle might have these problems too.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Informal straw poll or something, tag me in your response or whatever IDK.

What stage(s) are in the position of "may or may not be legal pending hard data on hazards or transformations"? I plan to start up my stage research threads again and I already have Mario Circuit lined up for the first one but I'd like to make sure I'm not wasting my time on stages no one cares about, at least early on. (I'll still want to do Gamer, etc. for completion's sake eventually.)

 

[SonicZeroX]

Double check to see if they aren't changed: Haliberd, Castle Siege, Delfino

Probably good but they're new so give them analysis just for clarity: Town and City, Duck Hunt, Pilotwings, Skyloft, Wuhu Island

These all need some serious analysis: Kongo 64, Pokemon Stadium 2, Norfair, Windy Hill, Mario World, Mario Circuit 8, Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Hijinx, Port Town, Wooly World, Orbital Gate, Kalos, Skyworld, Gamer, Garden of Hope, Wrecking Crew

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Double check to see if they aren't changed: Haliberd, Castle Siege, Delfino

Probably good but they're new so give them analysis just for clarity: Town and City, Duck Hunt, Pilotwings, Skyloft, Wuhu Island

These all need some serious analysis: Kongo 64, Pokemon Stadium 2, Norfair, Windy Hill, Mario World, Mario Circuit 8, Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Hijinx, Port Town, Wooly World, Orbital Gate, Kalos, Skyworld, Gamer, Garden of Hope, Wrecking Crew

I'm not sure how much I can do for Town & City and Kongo Jungle 64 other than show a screenshot or two and say "here's the layout, have fun." They...just don't have much going on. Maybe I can see how long each phase lasts in Town & City.

The list is much appreciated either way.

 

[Raziek]

So, Day 1 testing from NS turned up some pretty great reasons to definitively ban Mario Circuit and Mushroomy Kingdom U (if for some reason you were still on the fence about Nabbit)

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=14m37s

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=54m23s

List I'm running at tournament tomorrow:

3 stage bans
Starter (7)

Battlefield
Smashville
Wuhu Island
Kongo 64
Lylat Cruise
Final Destination
Halberd

Counter
City & Town
Castle Siege
Skyloft
Delfino Plaza
Pilot Wings
Big BF
Windy Hill
Wooly World
Coliseum
Wii Fit Studio
Mario Galaxy
Duck Hunt

 

[Dre89]

Are people banning Kongo Jungle 64 or is it legit

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So I haven't really gotten the testing rolling yet, but I will drop the preliminary impression on Wrecking Crew. I've had this one come up a lot in the single player, and it's just an awful stage. Not only is the lay-out just awful and awkward to fight on (and transparently super enabling of run-away), but the barrels are actually a ridiculously dangerous hazard. If one falls on you, you are stuck for a very long time; mashing gets you out faster, but it's still a long time either way. Your time in the barrel can also be shortened by you getting hit as well, but you can take an incredible beating in there. Even worse, if the barrel is actually broken by enemy attacks, you come out in shield break state! It seems to be a very brief shield break state, but it's long enough to easily get hit by a smash. So basically, if a barrel lands on you, you're going to eat a few smashes worth of damage and then get hit by your opponent's most powerful kill move. We could argue about whether this incredibly powerful hazard is worth tolerating due to being controllable/predictable, but given that the stage's basic lay-out just sucks, I'm not seeing the merit in trying to save this one.

I also noted that Garden of Hope's hazard (the crab) can hit multiple times and, if he hits you right, he seems to hit quite hard, maybe too hard but I don't know precisely how hard. The little pikmin constructions are also way more obnoxious than I originally imagined, but I am far from ready to say this stage definitely needs the old ban hammer already so much as I'm just apprehensive. Damage/kill percent on hazards should probably be an early priority as that would really clarify the picture here.

Otherwise, I still feel like most of these stages are going to be pretty easy for us to sort out; this game generously made about half of the stages awesome and the other half awful. Thanks Sakurai!

 

[Slyphoria]

I also noted that Garden of Hope's hazard (the crab) can hit multiple times and, if he hits you right, he seems to hit quite hard, maybe too hard but I don't know precisely how hard. The little pikmin constructions are also way more obnoxious than I originally imagined, but I am far from ready to say this stage definitely needs the old ban hammer already so much as I'm just apprehensive. Damage/kill percent on hazards should probably be an early priority as that would really clarify the picture here.

I didn't take footage of it yet, but my friend somehow managed to get stuck in the white dish thing when it built around him. He couldn't get out until it was broken (I let the crab break it).

I have a replay if that'd be helpful.

-------------------
Side Note: On Wuhu Island, when you're on the boat, if you get hit by the front of the boat it spikes you so hard. It's hardly a reason to ban it, though.

I was kind of surprised with how much of the stuff you can hit people on on Pilotwings. The ferry, the bridge, the cave... I wonder if it's too much.

Edit: Oh. Well. I hope this gets patched.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

That video's position is not very impressive. I don't even know if it's supposed to be a joke; if it is, it's a pretty poorly executed one, but I don't even know what to say if they're being serious with their argument.

For those unaware, similar glitches exist in Melee and Brawl. In Melee that happens at the very least on Kongo Jungle, Brinstar Depth, and Poke Floats (I think more but those are the ones I remember) which are probably no one's favorite stages, but in Brawl, it can happen on Pokemon Stadium and Castle Siege (I've heard rumors of others but those are the ones I've actually seen and the ones on which it happens the most) which are common tournament legal stages. In both games, it's not random just absurdly picky to the point that it's very hard to reproduce, but if you understand the gist of it, it's not very likely to be a problem for you. In this case, we can probably work out the sort of situation that causes that clip, and then it will be on the players to avoid it or cause it at their leisure with it most likely not proving very significant to the overall game. This sort of glitch has long been an interesting obscurity, and I would be legitiamtely surprised if it turned out to be anything but an obscurity here.

So yeah, we'll have to poke around with that to see if we can even reproduce it and if we can to figure out what actually causes it. That will not be a fast process due to how many landing zones Wuhu Island has, but it was a stage we probably wanted to thoroughly document in the next week or two anyway since it seems like a shoe-in for one of our legal stages.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So, Day 1 testing from NS turned up some pretty great reasons to definitively ban Mario Circuit and Mushroomy Kingdom U (if for some reason you were still on the fence about Nabbit)

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=14m37s

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=54m23s

List I'm running at tournament tomorrow:

3 stage bans
Starter (7)

Battlefield
Smashville
Wuhu Island
Kongo 64
Lylat Cruise
Final Destination
Halberd

Counter
City & Town
Castle Siege
Skyloft
Delfino Plaza
Pilot Wings
Big BF
Windy Hill
Wooly World
Coliseum
Wii Fit Studio
Mario Galaxy
Duck Hunt

I don't think any of us were holding out for Mushroom Kingdom U after seeing Nabbit, but although Mario Circuit was very unfortunate for Robin, the movement along the track is very predictable and I'm forced to wonder if it would have happened had he been aware of the danger.

 

[Protom]

I played a few maches with mt brother on mushroom kingdom u. Notes:
-Most transformations are very tame.
-Mario has a semi-infinite with his uptilt on the transformation that goes inside the foretress. If u get up next to a wall and uptilt, the wall will keep pushing your opponent into your uptilt, meaning you can keep using up tilt till the wall pushes you off.
-Nabbit isnt that hard to dodge. In our 4 maches, none of us got caught by him once, and I find he takes a lot of hitstun from just about anything. Can be K.O.d just like any fighter. I have yet to test out how mashing out of the bag works.
I still have a bit of hope for this stage.
EDIT (excuse my spelling and grammer. I am using a very clunky keybord for the time being)

 

[Piford]

So, Day 1 testing from NS turned up some pretty great reasons to definitively ban Mario Circuit and Mushroomy Kingdom U (if for some reason you were still on the fence about Nabbit)

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=14m37s

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=54m23s

List I'm running at tournament tomorrow:

3 stage bans
Starter (7)

Battlefield
Smashville
Wuhu Island
Kongo 64
Lylat Cruise
Final Destination
Halberd

Counter
City & Town
Castle Siege
Skyloft
Delfino Plaza
Pilot Wings
Big BF
Windy Hill
Wooly World
Coliseum
Wii Fit Studio
Mario Galaxy
Duck Hunt

So why only have 7 starters? And why make Wuhu Island a starter and not Skyloft? To me, Skyloft seemed to be more fit for starters.

 

[Das Koopa]

Walk-off stages just aren't okay. Too much gimping, and too much playing close to the edge of the stage that promotes gimping. This stage in particular also has a pretty low ceiling.

 

[Starbound]

Isn't the boat on Wuhu Island performing similar to the Pirate Ship, where you die if you're in front of the boat?

That being said, I think Wuhu Island definitely requires further analysis along with Pilotwings. imo those are the highest priority stages as they are so close to being legal.

 

[smashmachine]

you guys should probably stop wasting time on Wrecking Crew/Woolly World/etc. unless you want to watch stages like Wuhu Island slip out of stagelists because nobody bothered

 

[Das Koopa]

you guys should probably stop wasting time on Wrecking Crew/Woolly World/etc. unless you want to watch stages like Wuhu Island slip out of stagelists because nobody bothered

There's nothing preventing us from focusing on all of them.

 

[TLMSheikant]

What i'm thinking should be used at this point for our ruleset in Puerto Rico:

Neutral:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Miiverse
Smashville
Town and City

Striking would be 1-2-2-1. I'm honestly iffy still on Halberd as a neutral and 2 similar stages (the Smashvilles) around. Might change Town and City and Halberd to Counterpick for 5 stages. In that case, striking would be 1-1-1-1.

Counterpick:
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Kongo Jungle 64
Norfair
Skyloft
Omega Stages*

*Final Destination and Omega Stages count as the same stage for the purpose of banning stages.

2 stage bans.

I'm waiting on more research on Wuhu Island, Circuit and Pilot wings at the moment. Though I'm also iffy on there being 4 transition stages like Delfino. If they're legal, do they have enough differences to warrant all of them being split? Should banning one ban the others just so there's a purpose to banning one of them at all?

Doubles-only:
Big Battlefield

 

[popsofctown]

So why only have 7 starters? And why make Wuhu Island a starter and not Skyloft? To me, Skyloft seemed to be more fit for starters.

What makes any stage more of a starter than another stage

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Okay so yeah having played Big Battlefield it really is WAY too big and SUPER easy to run away forever in a 1v1. Unfortunately Duck Hunt and Kongo Jungle might have these problems too.

How does Little mac and probably Ganondorf stop 33% of the cast from circle camping him on Kongo Jungle.
R.I.P jungle.

 

[Piford]

What i'm thinking should be used at this point for our ruleset in Puerto Rico:

Neutral:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Miiverse
Smashville
Town and City

Striking would be 1-2-2-1. I'm honestly iffy still on Halberd as a neutral and 2 similar stages (the Smashvilles) around. Might change Town and City and Halberd to Counterpick for 5 stages. In that case, striking would be 1-1-1-1.

Counterpick:
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Kongo Jungle 64
Norfair
Skyloft
Omega Stages*

*Final Destination and Omega Stages count as the same stage for the purpose of banning stages.

2 stage bans.

I'm waiting on more research on Wuhu Island, Circuit and Pilot wings at the moment. Though I'm also iffy on there being 4 transition stages like Delfino. If they're legal, do they have enough differences to warrant all of them being split? Should banning one ban the others just so there's a purpose to banning one of them at all?

Doubles-only:
Big Battlefield

The differences between Delphino Plaza, Wuhu Island, and Skyloft are huge. They all have different layouts and landing points and whatnot. It's like if we banned Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story, and Dreamland in Melee for being too much like Battlefield.

What makes any stage more of a starter than another stage

Good point.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

After watching the footage, I've given up on Wrecking Crew. It seemed like a cool idea, but I can see its problems in real matches. I do hope an idea like this is tried again in a smaller stage.

So, Day 1 testing from NS turned up some pretty great reasons to definitively ban Mario Circuit and Mushroomy Kingdom U (if for some reason you were still on the fence about Nabbit)


http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=14m37s


http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=54m23s


List I'm running at tournament tomorrow:


3 stage bans

Starter (7)


Battlefield

Smashville

Wuhu Island

Kongo 64

Lylat Cruise

Final Destination

Halberd


Counter

City & Town

Castle Siege

Skyloft

Delfino Plaza

Pilot Wings

Big BF

Windy Hill

Wooly World

Coliseum

Wii Fit Studio

Mario Galaxy

Duck Hunt

Dude; I think that Robin was just careless. For starters anyone could see the wall was coming if you just paid attention to the background. It was his fault more than the state's. This isn't poke floats where this stuff comes out of nowhere.