Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

[CatRaccoonBL]

Here I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Shoutouts to MS Paint.

Yep, thats exactly it. I went on top of those engines as Rosalina.
'ed

 

[Piford]

The little yellow engine thing under the wing. Try to pick someone like Jigglypuff and just hop up on there. I can do it with Olimar super easy.

Okay I see now (I really question how I was able to miss landing before) It seems like trying to reach there makes you vulnerable though, but when you get there its pretty good. I'm not really sure how this could play out in an actual match though.

 

[ZHMT]

Alright better yet, tell me what you can do to stop Jigglypuff from running the clock on Kongo Jungle when they have percent lead? If there are legitimate answers then the stage could be fine as a cp.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Alright better yet, tell me what you can do to stop Jigglypuff from running the clock on Kongo Jungle when they have percent lead? If there are legitimate answers then the stage could be fine as a cp.

Can't people be attacked a bit after the get hit out of the cannon?

That, or you just sit on the top platform?

 

[Piford]

Alright better yet, tell me what you can do to stop Jigglypuff from running the clock on Kongo Jungle when they have percent lead? If there are legitimate answers then the stage could be fine as a cp.

Attack Jigglypuff before she into the barrel? Dodge the blast from the barrel and punish? Use a character with a counter?

 

[D-idara]

So after playing a bunch on each stage, here's a ranking about how I feel how fit for competitive play they are.

1. Smashville
2. Battlefield
3. Town and City
4. Lylat Cruise
5. Final Destination
6. Duck Hunt
7. Pilot Wings
8. Skyloft
9. Halberd
10. Kongo Jungle 64
11. Castle Siege
12. Wuhu Island
13. Delphino Plaza
14. Windy Hill Zone
15. Pokemon Stadium 2
16. Big Battlefield
17. Orbital Gate Assault
18. Coliseum
19. Wii Fit Studio
20. Mario Galaxy
21. Norfair
22. Luigi's Mansion
23. Wooly World
---------------------------------
24. Mario Circuit (Wii U)
25. Port Town Aero Dive
26. Garden Of Hope
27. Onett
28. Gamer
29. Kalos Pokemon League
30. Skyworld
31. Yoshi's Island
32. Mushroom Kingdom U
33. Wrecking Crew
34. Mario Circuit (Brawl)
35. Pac-Land
36. Jungle Hijinx
37. Bridge of Eldin
38. Boxing Ring
39. Wily Castle
40. 75m
41. Temple
42. Pyrosphere
43. Flatzone X
44. Palutena's Temple
45. Gaur Plains
46. Great Cave Offensive

The dashed line is where the stage kinda gets to be too much. Some of the stages right after the dashed line could still work (probably up to 33), but probably aren't worth fighting for and they all have problems.

I don't see how Kalos Pokemon League, Mushroom Kingdom U, Jungle Hijinx and Mario Circuit 8 aren't perfectly playable.

 

[ZHMT]

Attack her before she gets into the barrel? Ill be floating slowly far away from the stage and using my fast mobility to glide into the barrel using few jumps, enough to have a backup to recover. If the only way to deal with it is to put yourself in an awful position that isn't a reliable way of dealing with a strategy. Look at planking with MK in Brawl, you can hit him too and chase him offstage, doesn't make it a non-valid issue.

Also the barrel refreshes your jumps and it seems like you are invunerable during the period when you launch, most of it anyway. Its not like in the other games where you can hit them with no risk.

 

[SonicZeroX]

I don't see how Kalos Pokemon League, Mushroom Kingdom U, Jungle Hijinx and Mario Circuit 8 aren't perfectly playable.

You can get free metal boxes from Kalos even with items turned off. It's pretty silly.

 

[Piford]

I don't see how Kalos Pokemon League, Mushroom Kingdom U, Jungle Hijinx and Mario Circuit 8 aren't perfectly playable.

Kalos Pokemon League isn't too bad, but Registeel does take up the entire stage with his attacks. The other hazards are not really that bad, but all stacked up with registeel makes it a little much. Mushroom Kingdom U has the random Urchins that can come up and nabbit which is really annnoying. Jungle Hijinx makes the characters extremely hard to see if there in the back, and theres a lot of opportunities to camp on top of that. Mario Circuit 8 isn't bad, but the part where the stage is moving with the roof that does like 50% moves from being utilizable to abusable. I'm fine with Kalos, Mushroom Kingdom, and Mario Kart 8 being legel, but they're not worth fighting for.

Attack her before she gets into the barrel? Ill be floating slowly far away from the stage and using my fast mobility to glide into the barrel using few jumps, enough to have a backup to recover. If the only way to deal with it is to put yourself in an awful position that isn't a reliable way of dealing with a strategy. Look at planking with MK in Brawl, you can hit him too and chase him offstage, doesn't make it a non-valid issue.

Also the barrel refreshes your jumps and it seems like you are invunerable during the period when you launch, most of it anyway. Its not like in the other games where you can hit them with no risk.

But Jigglypuff only gets 6 jumps and rising pound has been removed. And if jigglypuff is in the barrel, then I know she's trying to hit me. I can just shield, roll, spot dodge, or air dodge and then punish.

 

[LiteralGrill]

BIG QUESTION​

On the subreddit we're not sure there are enough questionable stages to run a proper science stagelist tournament this time. This is our current stagelist. Is there anything not on there people think are worth testing? Please keep it realistic though. Don't have me trying out stages you know will never be accepted by the public ever. Keep it to the reasonable on the fringe please.

 

[Piford]

BIG QUESTION​

On the subreddit we're not sure there are enough questionable stages to run a proper science stagelist tournament this time. This is our current stagelist. Is there anything not on there people think are worth testing? Please keep it realistic though. Don't have me trying out stages you know will never be accepted by the public ever. Keep it to the reasonable on the fringe please.

You did six stages last time right (or was it seven)? Orbital Gate Assault, Luigi's Mansion (from what I can tell you can't tech the pillars anymore so that's not really an issue), Wooly World, the walk-off stages (Coliseum, Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit Studio), stages like Gamer, Garden of Hope, Kalos Pokemon League, and Mushroom Kingdom U could be tested even if they are unlikely (I mean you tested Jungle Japes last time). That's 10 possible stages you could test from, and you could eliminate 3 or 4 if you need too. If you wanted to do a specific Walk-off testing tournament you could throw Coliseum, Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit Studio, Onett, and Yoshi's Island together.

 

[ZHMT]

Okay first off, 6 jumps plus possibly lowest fall speed/fastest air speed is being greatly underestimated. Second off, if I'm using the barrel, who said I intend on attacking with it? I'm using it to get all 6 of my jumps back and to launch intangibly into a hard to reach area. What makes people think you can hit/punish someone who is invincible? Spot dodging/countering an invincible move and "punishing" it does nothing if I take no knockback or damage.

If the barrel launch has knockback resistance or another property please let me know because to my knowledge it is invincible from launch until the point where I stop and can make an action.

 

[LiteralGrill]

You did six stages last time right (or was it seven)? Orbital Gate Assault, Luigi's Mansion (from what I can tell you can't tech the pillars anymore so that's not really an issue), Wooly World, the walk-off stages (Coliseum, Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit Studio), stages like Gamer, Garden of Hope, Kalos Pokemon League, and Mushroom Kingdom U could be tested even if they are unlikely (I mean you tested Jungle Japes last time). That's 10 possible stages you could test from, and you could eliminate 3 or 4 if you need too. If you wanted to do a specific Walk-off testing tournament you could throw Coliseum, Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit Studio, Onett, and Yoshi's Island together.

I can say easily Gamer stands no chance at all. Kalos is probably in the same boat. Wooly World also has bad public opinion, plus playing on it personally I can't blame people. It's honestly kinds huge and just a big annoyance the entire time. Orbital Gate, Luigi's Mansion, Wii Fit Studio, MAYBE Mushroom Kingdom U (just because it's so liked).

A walkoff only tournament sounds like a much more interesting concept. People say reevaluate walkoffs... Hrm...

 

[Piford]

Okay first off, 6 jumps plus possibly lowest fall speed/fastest air speed is being greatly underestimated. Second off, if I'm using the barrel, who said I intend on attacking with it? I'm using it to get all 6 of my jumps back and to launch intangibly into a hard to reach area. What makes people think you can hit/punish someone who is invincible? Spot dodging/countering an invincible move and "punishing" it does nothing if I take no knockback or damage.

If the barrel launch has knockback resistance or another property please let me know because to my knowledge it is invincible from launch until the point where I stop and can make an action.

From what I can gather, the barrel shoots almost exclusively up, so unless you hit me, your above me (assuming your abusing the barrel against me). Being above someone is almost always a disadvantageous position. Plus you always have to return to the barrel, which again leaves you open for an attack. It seems like against an educated player, abusing this tactic would be impossible. If you could show multiple tournament matches where this happens against good players, then it makes sense to ban it, but until then it doesn't seem like an issue to me.

I can say easily Gamer stands no chance at all. Kalos is probably in the same boat. Wooly World also has bad public opinion, plus playing on it personally I can't blame people. It's honestly kinds huge and just a big annoyance the entire time. Orbital Gate, Luigi's Mansion, Wii Fit Studio, MAYBE Mushroom Kingdom U (just because it's so liked).

A walkoff only tournament sounds like a much more interesting concept. People say reevaluate walkoffs... Hrm...

I also forgot to mention Norfair, which is another stage which is split and the only major problem is the public not liking it. But possibly playing on those stages in tournaments would make them seem not so bad, which is the point of testing them right?

 

[LiteralGrill]

I also forgot to mention Norfair, which is another stage which is split and the only major problem is the public not liking it. But possibly playing on those stages in tournaments would make them seem not so bad, which is the point of testing them right?

Norfair I could see as well.

The stages that are too far out aren't worth putting in a tournament setting at all. those on the fringe might prove to be actually good, so that's why I want to give them a shot.

 

[Piford]

Norfair I could see as well.

The stages that are too far out aren't worth putting in a tournament setting at all. those on the fringe might prove to be actually good, so that's why I want to give them a shot.

Well you could just try adding stages like norfair and orbital gate assault to your list and see how it goes. The only issue I could see is that people who aren't really prepared might get overwhelmed and think they deserve to be banned. Maybe having analysis of these stages before the tournament could help, like citing how you can dodge the lava wave in Norfair. Also, Port Town Aero Dive is one that isn't too bad either, but will still likely end up banned.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Alright time for some images because everybody loves pictures.

So this is going mostly by Thinkaman's list. The 7 stages with a question mark: Mushroom Kingdom U, Mario Circuit 8, Kongo Jungle 64, Norfair, Pokemon Stadium 2, Pilotwings, and Wuhu Island seem to be the most heavily debated right now (plus a few of the marked banned ones). Here are my own thoughts on them:

Mushroom Kingdom U: Quite a number of hazards on this stage such as Nabbit, Icicles, and the Spiky Fish. Individually none of them are that bad, but all together they make for a rather disruptive stage. I haven't personally played on this stage yet though so I'm not really sure.

Mario Circuit 8: Similar to Mushroom Kingdom, it has a number of hazards which aren't strong by themselves but altogether are pretty annoying. Main ones are the ceiling wall and the shy guy karts. Also haven't played on this stage personally.

Kongo Jungle 64: Biggest issue is camping. Not only are the platforms high up and easy to jump back and forth from, you can also choose to drop below the stage to the barrel. Seems great for teams at least.

Norfair: Even with the planking nerf I think you can still stall pretty well on all of those ledges. You just have so many get away options while hanging from one of the ledges.

Pokemon Stadium 2: This was one of the most debated stages in Brawl and now that it's toned down I think it should have a good chance. The un-transformed layout is still great and one of the most neutral layouts. With no tripping the ice layout might actually be interesting allowing for long range sliding upsmashes and with the new physics the air stage might allow some crazy air combos or something. Only the electric stage is really disruptive to actual fighting, but it's also tamer than Brawl's version.

Pilotwings: Really close to neutral/CP, but the under wing camping concerns are valid and possibly degenerative. Also personally I've been killed by the stage tilting away from my up b before which was disheartening

Wuhu Island: Seems okay other than the boat glitch and a few of the landing spots including the same boat. Sakurai pls patch.


Also here's a template for you guys to make your own stagelist graphics with only the most obvious stages marked (unless you think Yoshi's Island should be legal lol)

 

[Starbound]

The cars on Mario Circuit 8 aren't that big of a deal in my opinion. There's a few transformations where you don't have to deal with them either because the transformation isn't on the race course or the cars are underneath the main fighting area. The cave of life is a much bigger deal imo.

Gonna also give props to Gamer for mom not being nearly as intrusive as I thought. Yeah she hits hard but she's like the most telegraphed hazard in the game which makes her so easy to avoid.

 

[SonicZeroX]

She's basically like a harder hitting but non homing Haliberd cannon. Too bad the base stage itself is both randomized and can contain caves of life.

 

[Das Koopa]

Norfair? It has multiple, wide-reaching stage hazards that heavily disrupt gameplay and the layout has no large stable platforms. You get mid-sized ones that aren't good for fighting and arguably give too much advantage to agile fighters that work mainly with aerials.

I can see MK8 being debated (even if I really disagree about its legitimacy as a stage...) but nothing about Norfair (or Kalos) suggests they're going to be tournament legal. Kalos especially, since it has numerous stage hazards that heavily afflict gameplay like the registeel swords, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, whirlpool, water that makes the ground like Big Blue's road, etc.

 

[Piford]

Norfair? It has multiple, wide-reaching stage hazards that heavily disrupt gameplay and the layout has no large stable platforms. You get mid-sized ones that aren't good for fighting and arguably give too much advantage to agile fighters that work mainly with aerials.

The lava doesn't really disrupt the game that much, its all easily avoidable plus it helps cause conflict which leads to more offensive play. Plus the lava can't even kill till really high percents and it can be utilized by smart players to give them an advantage.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Here I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Shoutouts to MS Paint.

That's bull! Why should you be allowed to stand on those tiny things? What a bloody load! Please tell me that there are consistent tactics to stop that happening.

 

[LiteralGrill]

That's bull! Why should you be allowed to stand on those tiny things? What a bloody load! Please tell me that there are consistent tactics to stop that happening.

It needs testing. But a Kirby/Jigglypuff/Olimar could easily abuse that being so small so you couldn't get them within reason.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am laughing at the idea that the actual Final Destination is banned.

Also, what is CP?

 

[Piford]

I am laughing at the idea that the actual Final Destination is banned.

Also, what is CP?

Counterpick. And banning FD because of its background could make sense, as some people do have really sensitive eyes (although I would say Gaur Plains FD should replace it not Battlefield FD).

 

[Halfhead]

Castle Seige. I've heard banned, counterpick, and starter for Castle Seige. I'm not sure where I stand, but it is a bit odd.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I am laughing at the idea that the actual Final Destination is banned.

Also, what is CP?

"CP" = "Counterpick," a term in this context used to refer to a stage that can only be chosen during the counterpick phase of a set. I personally disagree with the distinction and prefer a simple legal/banned separation but that's a separate topic.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

I spent the weekend playing some matches of varying seriousness with friends and was able to experience most of the new and not-obviously-bad stages. Here are my initial impressions now that I have firsthand experience:

"Why are we debating these?" Tier: None of these stages have damaging hazards, which right there is a major point in their favor. Although some may appeal more than others to one's sense of style, in general I can't think of a good reason to ban any of them.

• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Delfino Plaza
• Skyloft
• Lylat Cruise
• Castle Siege
• Town & City
• Smashville
• Wuhu Island

"This stage is weird..." Tier: Here we find the stages that aren't inherently dangerous, but have a layout that can make some characters' lives difficult. Alternatively, opponents may be able to exploit some feature or other, such as platform arrangement, sheer size, or what-have-you, with the same end result of making some matchups more troublesome.

• Big Battlefield
• Luigi's Mansion
• Jungle Hijinxs
• Kongo Jungle 64
• Woolly World
• Orbital Gate Assault
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Duck Hunt
• Pilotwings
• Windy Hill

"Honk if you love stage hazards." Tier: This group of stages has one or more damaging stage hazards. Although it remains to be seen exactly how much of an impact some of these hazards are, in the short term it will probably affect how much they're accepted regardless of any other factors.

• Mushroom Kingdom U
• Mario Circuit
• Norfair
• Port Town Aero Dive
• Halberd
• Kalos Pokemon League
• Gamer
• Garden of Hope

"Walkoffs are icky!" Tier: These stages have exactly nothing wrong with them...except for the fact that they're walkoffs. The most exciting thing going on layout-wise is changing platform arrangement. On top of that, they all feel a bit smaller in practice than screenshots may suggest. I'm curious how they'd work in doubles, where camping in general is much less effective. If not for the walkoffs, these would all be shoo-ins for the "Why are we debating these?" tier.

• Coliseum
• Wii Fit Studio
• Mario Galaxy

Some of these stages have a bit of overlap. For instance, Jungle Hijinxs could conceivably fit in the "Honk if you love stage hazards." tier since one half or the other does sometimes fall away and force a hasty retreat to the other side. However, the only way the stage can actually hurt you is if you take the barrels too often and the safety barrels provided when the stage breaks down seem unaffected by this, so I left it in the "This stage is weird..." tier.

I can elaborate further if anyone wants but this post is getting long enough as it is.

 

[Das Koopa]

The lava doesn't really disrupt the game that much, its all easily avoidable plus it helps cause conflict which leads to more offensive play. Plus the lava can't even kill till really high percents and it can be utilized by smart players to give them an advantage.

The problem is that stages that can give an advantage to a player on the basis of an unpredictable hazard (see; Lava) probably shouldn't be legal. Gameplay shouldn't have to shift to focus on innovating to fight against a stage hazard your opponent could utilize. It gives unfair amounts of punishment for a player caught in a certain situation.

It's not like playing off stage where a player should be aware of the risks of getting spiked in some manner or pushed too low/too far out in the air, the danger of being gimped or put into an incredibly disadvantaged situation (like taking a 30% from lava/combos off of it) simply comes from being on the stage itself.

Even if it's a predictable hazard, that still doesn't convey with the flow of a match. If you're in the middle of a combo and have to stop because of the stage, then the stage still disrupted gameplay, even if it didn't do any damage. Both players being potentially able to abuse the broken stage hazard doesn't make it balanced or fair. At all.

I think this is the most likely stage list with a rough tiering: (Singles-only)

Starter:
1: Battlefield/Miiverse
2: Smashville
3: Town and City
4: Final Destination/Omega Forms (Pillar Omegas may be separated as counterpicks or treated as a different neutral option)
5: Lylat Cruise

Starter/Counterpick:
6: Castle Siege
7: Duck Hunt
8: Kongo Jungle 64? (Depending on how camping tests go.)

Counterpick:
9: Skyloft
10: Halberd
11: Delfino Plaza
12: Wuhu Island (Assuming boat bug is patched...)
13: Pilotwings? (See KJ64)

Counterpick/Banned/Heavily disputed:
14: Woolly World
15: Orbital Gate Assault
16: Mario Circuit 8
17: Pokemon Stadium 2

Disputed, but inevitably banned:
18: Garden of Hope
19-21: Neutral Walkoffs (Studio, Galaxy, Coliseum)
22: Luigi's Mansion
23: Port Town Aero Dive
24: Wrecking Crew
25: Gamer
26: Jungle Hijinxs
27: Windy Hill Zone
28: Mushroom Kingdom U
29: Norfair
30: Kalos Pokemon League

Universally banned:
31: Yoshi's Island
32: Skyworld
33: Onett
34: Mario Circuit
35: Big Battlefield
36: Bridge of Eldin

Bottom 10:

37: Boxing Ring
38: Pac-Land
39: Dr. Wily's Castle
40: Pyrosphere
42: Flat Zone X
42: Temple
43: Palutena's Temple
44: 75m
45: Gaur Plain
46: Great Cave Offensive

 

[-Kagato-]

So during the waterfall portion of Skyloft, I was able to grab-release someone directly into the waterfall and cripple their recovery, sending them to their death.

Food for thought.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

If the FD background is an issue - which it can be - then the players should go to an agreed-upon FD alternate. SMG FD is practically Melee FD, albeit not as wide. No crazy background.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

This is the stage list that's going to be used in our first few locals here.

17 stage striking from the following legal stages:

Battlefield
Big Battlefield
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Kongo Jungle 64
Skyloft
Woolly World
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Town and City
Smashville
Duck Hunt
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Windy Hill

This list isn't precisely what I would have chosen, but Lux and I compromised a bit while also going a bit conservative so we could keep the stage list in feasible striking territory (our first draft had 33 legal stages, wasn't going to be strikeable and was very experimental). He wanted Luigi's Mansion over Halberd because he's not a fan of any kind of hazards, and I wanted Mario Circuit over Woolly World because I don't like those kinds of goofy lay-outs but love dynamic stages. I think overall it's a pretty good and pretty tame list; there's room to tweak it in the future as we get further tournament data (both ways, we could add in a few stages to replace any we might take away), but I think this is quite a workable set for this game. I'll be posting here as the events go down to keep you guys posted on how these play out in real tournament sets; I have some ideas about these stages from preliminary play of course, but I think tournament will be a good proving ground for this stage list.

 

[Slyphoria]

Counterpick. And banning FD because of its background could make sense, as some people do have really sensitive eyes (although I would say Gaur Plains FD should replace it not Battlefield FD).

Putting in a vote for Omega Flat Zone X. Omega Gaur Plains is cool too though.

 

[Thinkaman]

But but but but Mushroomy Kingdom U!

And Norfair...

But seriously, MKU is a SUPER good stage. It's continued to be popular on my setup.

 

[Slyphoria]

So, I just sat and watched the landing zones for Skyloft, Mario Circuit and Wuhu and tested Nabbit.

Mushroom Kingdom U: Nabbit is seriously not that bad. I was able to mash out at 140% in Training Mode with G&W, if the character matters for it. He did get me once, and it is quite a bit of mashing, but let's be honest, at 140% you're living on borrowed time anyways.
----------------
Mario Circuit: As I've thought before, it's completely fine. There are kills that normally wouldn't kill but do because they rebounded off the ceiling, but that's just part of the stage honestly, and fine in my book. One of the landing spots is the starting line, and when Shy Guys were coming I was able to easily dodge-roll out of the way of them with G&W. As far as I'm concerned, Mario Circuit is probably more legal than Wuhu Island, but they both should be.
----------------
Wuhu Island: This is the one I spent the most time on. I still like it, but there's some interesting hazards and oddities I haven't seen mentioned all that much. One thing I noticed is that there's certain cycles the platform goes to. It's not completely random. It seems that there's 2 main paths with optional spots along those. These start at the big shot of the island with the blimp proudly displayed. The 2 main paths are skimming the water, going left to the stadium, beach, and some others, while the one right goes to the bridge and others. I didn't write down all the stages on each list.

So, when the main platform skims the water before going to the left, and to the stadium, the water acts like a very weak Mute City road, doing 5% and completely vertical knockback. It's not much at 0, just a tiny bit more than you'd need to get back on the platform.

One other thing about Wuhu though. The landing spot with the cliff on the left and open on the right, there's a really fast red balloon. If you hit it it does 10% iirc. Kind of interesting that such a side thing does a bit of damage, but whatever. Not a big issue.
---------------
Last one of the set, Skyloft: This is the one I watched the 2nd most. I haven't done many matches on it, so I figured I should check out the landing spots. Most of them are great and really interesting. The only one that I've heard brought up is the waterfalls. They do do quite a bit of pushing downwards, but it only starts about 1/3-1/2 the way down. Considering how crazily short the stops are (they're easily the shortest in the game), it's not an issue.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

But but but but Mushroomy Kingdom U!

And Norfair...

But seriously, MKU is a SUPER good stage. It's continued to be popular on my setup.

I mean, to be clear, that's not just my stage list. If I were writing the rules by myself, we'd have more than 17 legal and some different procedure to handle way more legal stages, but like most things born of compromise, I think it will work out mostly okay. When Woolly World predictably doesn't work out (not to be pessimistic, but I'm not a believer), I'll probably suggest MKU to take its place, especially if it works out well elsewhere. Whether that happens or not we'll have to see.

 

[Piford]

This is the stage list that's going to be used in our first few locals here.

17 stage striking from the following legal stages:

Battlefield
Big Battlefield
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Kongo Jungle 64
Skyloft
Woolly World
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Town and City
Smashville
Duck Hunt
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Windy Hill

This list isn't precisely what I would have chosen, but Lux and I compromised a bit while also going a bit conservative so we could keep the stage list in feasible striking territory (our first draft had 33 legal stages, wasn't going to be strikeable and was very experimental). He wanted Luigi's Mansion over Halberd because he's not a fan of any kind of hazards, and I wanted Mario Circuit over Woolly World because I don't like those kinds of goofy lay-outs but love dynamic stages. I think overall it's a pretty good and pretty tame list; there's room to tweak it in the future as we get further tournament data (both ways, we could add in a few stages to replace any we might take away), but I think this is quite a workable set for this game. I'll be posting here as the events go down to keep you guys posted on how these play out in real tournament sets; I have some ideas about these stages from preliminary play of course, but I think tournament will be a good proving ground for this stage list.

So why couldn't you put all 4 stages on instead of just 2? Also I'd think Luigi's Mansion is much better than Wooly World.

 

[infomon]

I love Pilot Wings but I think it's easily the plainest (no hazards, simple layout) stage that will need to be given the boot. It's theory at this point, I'd like us to see it played out and have examples where it degenerates.... but it's.... so obviously going to degenerate.

Red Plane: Who's going to cross the wall? Noone's going to cross the wall. It's the wall transformation from PS1 except it's 50% of the stage, and the platform layout is hilarious.

Yellow Plane: Even worse A handful of characters can easily and reliably get to the bottom platforms, and hang out there forever. Many characters will be hopeless against that, it's downright silly.

Again, just theory, so it deserves to be tested.

Edit: Oh yeah, this stage does have hazards (hazard-floor and hazard-wall at some parts of the flight) but they're so obvious and telegraphed and not-KO'ing that they're fine by probably anyone's standards. They're not the problem here by any means. In fact, they probably help.

 

[Terotrous]

Honestly, I think people need to try Mario Circuit U and actually try to play the stage to their advantage rather than just treating it like an FD that sometimes blocks your kills. The wall is in a consistent position on each side of the stage, and it doesn't move from one side to the other all that fast. If you have stage control you can definitely work it to your advantage.

 

[Thinkaman]

Some slight re-ordering:

1. Smashville
2. Town and City
3. Battlefield
4. Final Destination
5. Skyloft
6. Lylat Cruise
7. Halberd
8. Duck Hunt
9. Delphino Plaza
10. Mushroom Kingdom U
11. Castle Siege
12. Wuhu Island
13. Mario Circuit (Wii U)
14. Pokemon Stadium 2
15. Pilot Wings
16. Norfair
17. Kongo Jungle 64
---------------------------------
18. Orbital Gate Assault
19. Big Battlefield
20. Windy Hill Zone
21. Luigi's Mansion
22. Gamer
23. Garden Of Hope
24. Port Town Aero Dive
25. Kalos Pokemon League
26. Jungle Hijinx
27. Wooly World
28. Skyworld
29. Coliseum
30. Wii Fit Studio
31. Wrecking Crew
32. Mario Circuit (Brawl)
33. Mario Galaxy
34. Wily Castle
35. Bridge of Eldin
36. Onett
37. Boxing Ring
38. Pyrosphere
39. Yoshi's Island
40. Pac-Land
41. Flatzone X
42. 75m
43. Gaur Plains
44. Temple
45. Palutena's Temple
46. Great Cave Offensive

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Now that I've gotten over my initial weekend of messing around, I'm starting up my stage research threads again. The first Wii U stage I'm covering is Mario Circuit, so go check that thread out. Hopefully this sort of focused topic will lead to more productive discussion; I try and limit the OP to objective fact but there's nothing wrong with healthy debate and conversation over possible exploits, legality, and whatever else in the replies.

On a related note, I am officially soliciting ideas and requests for what stages I should cover next. I have my own vaguely-ordered list but if one stage in particular is getting a lot of discussion then it's probably a good idea to suss it out sooner rather than later. (Apparently Mushroom Kingdom U is back on the table? That surprised me.)