Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

[ParanoidDrone]

Anybody have trouble recovering on Omega Lylat Cruise? Well, on most stages you can slide up the underside with a recovery, but not there. Pit is highly dependent on sliding up the sides, although I wouldn't know if anybody else is. Plz ban

It is harder to sweetspot the ledge there, it seems. There's no real sides to speak of to help nudge your recovery the right way so you need to aim it perfectly.

 

[erico9001]

wii u list is looking sweet. Are people still in talks of making a few generic custom stages that could be tourney viable?

A thread about this opened up and we've already recreated a few stages. They aren't final - would need to be tested - but yeah there's so much potential here. The stage builder gives us so many options we didn't have in Brawl. I just wish there was more options for moving platforms, but oh well. It's a little difficult to create a stage, but once a stage is created it will just be shared online so it only has to be made once.

 

[LiteralGrill]

The biggest question on custom stages is: why should we use them when we already have enough excellent stages? You'll end up just making it even more difficult to pick what stage to play on (The "Project M Problem")

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

Can someone confirm on Gamer if the blocks used for platforms and to hide from Mum are 100% random or if it just certain variations.

 

[Zzuxon]

Can someone confirm on Gamer if the blocks used for platforms and to hide from Mum are 100% random or if it just certain variations.

There are certain recurring setups.
Speaking of which, it is possible for a handheld game console which looks a bit like a Game and Watch to appear on this stage. Mom can come out of this.

EDIT: I will now talk about what I came here to say.
Garden of Hope has a glitch where people fighting near a bowl can shrink spontaneously, see the last 2 pages of this thread for more info:
http://smashboards.com/threads/colony-6-constantly-growing-social.368257/page-47

 

[erico9001]

^Continuing this (so you don't need to read what I said in Shulk's social thread)
The glitch comes from how people who get stuck in the pot in Garden of Hope are shrunk in size. When the pot is destroyed the person grows. There are ways to get the person out of the pot without breaking it, at which point they stay mini until the pot is destroyed. Zzuxon discovered this by accident when a Shulk he was facing BThrowed him while on top of the pot. Somehow Little Mac became small. I believe somehow Little Mac was temporarily inside the pot during the Bthrow causing this.

I've tested a few methods of getting the person out and also some methods to try to make them stay small even when the pot is destroyed. None of my attempts to make them stay small have worked though.
Using Shulk's finalsmash and Ike's final smash on the person who is in the pot while you are outside brings the person out. Im sure it would work with C.Falcon's and Robin's final smashes but I have not tried these. I wonder if Bowser's side B works.. nope

edit: I got it to work just by standing on it and hitting Little Mac before sending him away. I wonder what other characters it works for.
edit2: It's all characters ^_^!! Two pummels and a Bthrow
You can also do it by simply bthrowing them into the pot. Once a part of their body goes in they shrink.

Doesn't only work for Shulk, Mario's Bthrow and Dthrow (if on top) also work.

 

[Dragoomba]

Kongo Jungle is smaller now and that solves the problem in melee.

I'm looking at both of them and they seem very similar in size. I'm not completely sure though, is there an accurate comparison of this?

Duck hunt has like 6 platforms, nothing at all like Final destination.

It's an omega stage with five tiny platforms on the top left of the stage. This stage would be completely fine if it wasn't in that disgusting fixed camera mode. Why would people complain about Omega WarioWare in the 3DS version because of the fixed camera, yet be perfectly fine with this one?

Janky is never a reason to ban a stage (nor is it a word). Water is also not a reason.

Water has certainly helped the decision to ban a stage, though. Pirate ship wasn't banned just because of the occasional cannonball and lever. If that were the case, Halberd would have been banned in Brawl long ago. Swimming is really just a tedious gimmick.

Tons of stages were banned in brawl because of Meta Knight (Delphino and Luigi's Mansion), plus stages have had problems fixed through either actually being fixed or through engine changes (See Pokemon Stadium 2 and Norfair). Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise are often legal in Meta Knight Banned tournies in Brawl, but there banned in Melee. Stages and mechanic change between games.

Luigi's Mansion was definitely NOT banned just because of Metaknight. The problems with the solid floors and destructible pillars causing extended hitlag still persist.

Norfair still has all of those ******** lava gimmicks, so you're still fighting against the stage as much as you're fighting your opponent. And how do these "engine changes" fix Pokemon Stadium 2 at all? You still slide everywhere in the ice transformation, you still float around in the air transformation, and the electric transformation is still as annoying as it was with the conveyor belts.

The only problem with Castle Siege (chain grabbing with walk-offs) and Halberd (Sharking with glides, specifically Meta Knight) have been fixed, so why ban them at all?

Chaingrabbing isn't the only reason walk-off stages are problematic. Wii Fit Studio and Coliseum would be great stages if they weren't walk-offs (which is why I'm surprised you suggested Woolly World as legal and not those two). Also, like with Luigi's Mansion, Meta Knight definitely wasn't the only problem with Halberd. One can even argue that the hazards are worse, now that you can't DI out of the beam. Again, I'm only considering these stages banworthy if Custom Stages somehow make their way into a tournament setting.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm looking at both of them and they seem very similar in size. I'm not completely sure though, is there an accurate comparison of this?


It's an omega stage with five tiny platforms on the top left of the stage. This stage would be completely fine if it wasn't in that disgusting fixed camera mode. Why would people complain about Omega WarioWare in the 3DS version because of the fixed camera, yet be perfectly fine with this one?


Water has certainly helped the decision to ban a stage, though. Pirate ship wasn't banned just because of the occasional cannonball and lever. If that were the case, Halberd would have been banned in Brawl long ago. Swimming is really just a tedious gimmick.


Luigi's Mansion was definitely NOT banned just because of Metaknight. The problems with the solid floors and destructible pillars causing extended hitlag still persist.

Norfair still has all of those ******** lava gimmicks, and how do these "engine changes" fix Pokemon Stadium 2 at all? You still slide everywhere in the ice transformation, you still float around in the air transformation, and the electric transformation is still as annoying as it was with the conveyor belts.


Chaingrabbing isn't the only reason walk-off stages are problematic. Wii Fit Studio and Coliseum would be great stages if they weren't walk-offs (which is why I'm surprised you suggested Woolly World as legal and not those two). Again, I'm only considering these stages banworthy if Custom Stages somehow make their way into a tournament setting.

Duck Hunt also has a bush on the right side that acts as a platform and personally I've never taken complaints about Warioware's camera seriously since the physical parameters of the stage (size, blast lines, etc.) are all the same as other Omegas. (Seriously, complaining about the camera of all things sounds like a really bad john.)

I was under the impression that Pirate Ship was banned because some characters could stall in the water somehow. I'm unclear on the details.

I'll grant the cave of life in Luigi's Mansion, but the fact that it's destructible is a point in its favor since it promotes stage control for both parties.

Norfair's lava can be shielded or spotdodged for what that's worth. Pokemon Stadium 2 was fixed in several ways. Removed wall infinites fixes the ground transformation. Higher fall speed in general makes the flying transformation less annoying. No random tripping solves the major issue with the ice transformation. And the conveyor belts in the electric transformation have been slowed down.

The biggest issue with walkoffs is that camping the edge is a volatile position for both players where a mistake can lead to an early KO. At the same time there's an argument to be made that it's the camping player who's at a disadvantage since they're the one closest to the blast zone. It basically boils down to whether or not you think this sort of play should be acceptable. The reason Woolly World's walkoff isn't a big deal is because it's temporary. More specifically, a camper who tries to get back onto the platforms once the floor is about to leave is in a very bad position, so it's a better idea not to camp the walkoff in the first place.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Why would people complain about Omega WarioWare in the 3DS version because of the fixed camera, yet be perfectly fine with this one?

Because it's an Omega, and people expect it to behave the same as all the other Omegas do. No such expectation exists for Duck Hunt since it is a separate stage. (Also, its Omega has a normal camera)

 

[SuzuTitor]

So I know this has probably been discussed a couple times before, but can we please separate different Omega Mode forms from Final Destination?

When it comes to recovery, there's a big difference between these three situations (especially the third), even though they are categorized as the same stage.

In order for Ness to recover in the first two, he can hit any point near the ledge to grab it. Meanwhile for the third he would need to sweetspot it or else he'll simply bounce right off and SD.

I know that the 3DS has roughly three forms for Omega Form, while the Wii U version has a few other variations. Can we please think about these situations before grouping them all together?

 

[David_give]

I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting it's not just fairness, or lack of degenerate gameplay that determines a stages legality, it's also popularity. If 95% of players hate playing on Norfair and think it should be banned, then tournaments are gonna ban Norfair. The liberal stage lists presented in this topic are far from the popular opinion of smash players. On the KTAR stream, juiceDoom, one of the commentators, said that Halberd should be banned, and that stages with hazards should be banned on principle. (Its around 8:34:30 in the vod, I can't link it cause I'm new to posting here.). I don't agree with him, but you'd be surprised how commonplace such opinions are. With this in mind I think a good number of legal stages to aim for is around 13. Something like:

Batllefield/Miiverse
Fd/Omega
Skyloft
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Town and CIty
Smashville
Duck Hunt
Wuhu Island
Castle Seige
Delfino
Kongo Jungle 64
Pokemon Stadium 2

Stages like Norfair and Mario Circuit could work, but I imagine it'd be quite unpopular with the player base at large.

 

[David_give]

Sorry I accidentally double posted when trying to edit -_-

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

It's an omega stage with five tiny platforms on the top left of the stage. This stage would be completely fine if it wasn't in that disgusting fixed camera mode. Why would people complain about Omega WarioWare in the 3DS version because of the fixed camera, yet be perfectly fine with this one?

The only reason I had a problem with WarioWare's fixed camera was because the 3DS screen was small and it was hard to see. Not a problem on Wii U.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So I know this has probably been discussed a couple times before, but can we please separate different Omega Mode forms from Final Destination?

When it comes to recovery, there's a big difference between these three situations (especially the third), even though they are categorized as the same stage.

In order for Ness to recover in the first two, he can hit any point near the ledge to grab it. Meanwhile for the third he would need to sweetspot it or else he'll simply bounce right off and SD.

I know that the 3DS has roughly three forms for Omega Form, while the Wii U version has a few other variations. Can we please think about these situations before grouping them all together?

I'm against separating Omegas because then you have 3 copies of Final Destination on the stage list. I don't care what the underside looks like, Little Mac loves the top of all 3. (To use the most obvious example.)

IMO the best way to handle it is to group FD and Omegas together for striking purposes and DSR, so if you strike/ban FD then Omegas are off the table as well and if you win on FD or an Omega then you can't pick FD or an Omega again. Game 1 always goes to FD itself since that's the closest we have to a standard. If you counterpick FD, then you can pick an Omega instead at your discretion.

 

[LancerStaff]

It is harder to sweetspot the ledge there, it seems. There's no real sides to speak of to help nudge your recovery the right way so you need to aim it perfectly.

It isn't really a simple "nudge," it's basically required for characters with straight recoveries to, well, recover from underneath the stage. Maybe this isn't common knowledge, but the sides and undersides of most stages guide recoveries quite strongly. Pick Pit and fly straight up into the underside of Omega Brinstar sometime. Even hitting the side of Omega 3D Land at the lowest angle with Pit's recovery will have him slide right up and grab ahold.

Basically, hitting the "slant zone" on a stage with a recovery means you only have to worry about the vertical portion of your recovery. And many character's recoveries are effected in the same fashion, such as Little Mac. Go back to Omega Brinstar again and hit the underside of the stage with his Uspecial, you'll make it to the ledge. Lylat Cruise, normal and Omega, hurts many recoveries from what I've seen. We can't just leave Lylat with the other Omegas at least.

 

[Ben Holt]

People really need to give Mushroom Kingdom U another chance. The only thing that makes the stage questionable is Nabbit. However, Nabbit is, at worst, a minor nuisance. As long as you are moving or attacking, Nabbit can't really do much. He's nothing like Flying Man in Magicant. Plus, his attacks are extremely predictable, and all he needs is a light tap to be neutralized.

I encourage everyone to try out Mushroom Kingdom U and look at it objectively rather than theoretically. Nabbit is extremely easy to play around.

 

[ChemicalExperiment]

It's an omega stage with five tiny platforms on the top left of the stage. This stage would be completely fine if it wasn't in that disgusting fixed camera mode. Why would people complain about Omega WarioWare in the 3DS version because of the fixed camera, yet be perfectly fine with this one?

I don't see why camera angle should be a problem. As long as it doesn't hinder using and seeing the stage, I think a fixed camera angle would be fine.

Water has certainly helped the decision to ban a stage, though. Pirate ship wasn't banned just because of the occasional cannonball and lever. If that were the case, Halberd would have been banned in Brawl long ago. Swimming is really just a tedious gimmick.

I agree with you there. However, it's more than just a gimmick. It limits possibilities on the stage. Because of water, all bottom screen KOs are impossible. With water, spikes are useless, and characters with bad recoveries have no problem getting back to the stage.

Norfair still has all of those ******** lava gimmicks, so you're still fighting against the stage as much as you're fighting your opponent. And how do these "engine changes" fix Pokemon Stadium 2 at all? You still slide everywhere in the ice transformation, you still float around in the air transformation, and the electric transformation is still as annoying as it was with the conveyor belts.

I agree that Norfair isn't viable with the lava, but Pokemon Stadium 2 might work for the same reasons @ ParanoidDrone lists.

Chaingrabbing isn't the only reason walk-off stages are problematic. Wii Fit Studio and Coliseum would be great stages if they weren't walk-offs (which is why I'm surprised you suggested Woolly World as legal and not those two). Also, like with Luigi's Mansion, Meta Knight definitely wasn't the only problem with Halberd. One can even argue that the hazards are worse, now that you can't DI out of the beam. Again, I'm only considering these stages banworthy if Custom Stages somehow make their way into a tournament setting.

As for walk offs, for me they are pretty cheap, mostly because you only have limited sight of your character. But @ ParanoidDrone makes a good argument for them. As for Halberd, it seems pretty balanced because of the ample amount of time that is given to prepare for the lazer and canon. However, I haven't played this stage very much, so I would have to use it a bit more to get the feel of how it transitions to Sm4sh.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I agree with you there. However, it's more than just a gimmick. It limits possibilities on the stage. Because of water, all bottom screen KOs are impossible. With water, spikes are useless, and characters with bad recoveries have no problem getting back to the stage.

You can spike people through water and KO them off the bottom screen. If you don't have a spike then them landing in the water is a free aerial.

 

[ChemicalExperiment]

You can spike people through water and KO them off the bottom screen. If you don't have a spike then them landing in the water is a free aerial.

Spikes go through water? That's interesting. I haven't played much on stages with water, so I had no idea. But I guess you're right about the aerial though. I probably should have thought of that. Water looks like it can actually diversify a stage to create some interesting situations.

 

[Dragoomba]

(Seriously, complaining about the camera of all things sounds like a really bad john.)

Am I just crazy? Am I insane for wanting the camera to behave normally when playing the game? It honestly feels like I'm playing the 3ds version when I'm on this stage, I don't see how this doesn't annoy people.

I was under the impression that Pirate Ship was banned because some characters could stall in the water somehow. I'm unclear on the details.

Either way, water still causes problems in these stages.

Norfair's lava can be shielded or spotdodged for what that's worth.

I still would rather not play the whole lava mini-game.

I'm sure tournaments are going to allow stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 with the impression that they're fine now, but are going to eventually ban them, the cycle of every Smash game.

 

[smashmachine]

I'm sure tournaments are going to allow stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 with the impression that they're fine now, but are going to eventually ban them, the cycle of every Smash game.

as far as I can tell Wuhu Island is gone almost everywhere already, so they're one step ahead

speaking of which, you guys really need to look at what tournaments are actually doing and trying to combat that

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

So I recently came across this list someone made and here are my thoughts on it (plus general thoughts):
I'm guessing someone posted this before me though.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2n78tw/smash_bros_wii_u_legal_stage_list/

Big Battelfield - I really think this stage is great for doubles. That extra space really opens up the crowded feeling of regular Battefield (just think of the combos and setup potential!). I can also see this stage fine for singles, but I don't think it will be picked as much (maybe by floaty characters since they could possibly survive longer).

Mario Circuit - Compared to the other traveling stages, this one will have a very hard time trying to get accepted. People will really see the walls as an issue since it's a lot more prominent in this stage (especially the damage they cause). For now, I think I'd leave it as a counter-pick. A very annoying one I might add.

Kalos Pokémon League - I heavily put this towards banned. The stage hazards are too much and your character is able to "get" an "item". You can turn metal and it'll last for a longer time than the regular Metal Box, and Rayquaza also appears as a stage hazard (going across the screen). I don't think the transformations are predictable either.

Orbital Gate Assault - This one is a bit of 85/15 (good/bad). What's good about it is that it has a very predictable fashion that anyone can latch onto. You can pretty much stand still and get through the whole stage. The missile that explodes doesn't cause damage and it's set knockback. My main gripe with this stage is that after the first missile explodes and you get to the 3 Arwings, you can easily fall under it and have a very difficult time to recover since there are no ledges (especially those with poor recoveries). Another thing is that there's the chance of falling through a solid platform (the portion with the 3 Arwings going home/to base). This happened to me a couple of time and it could be fixed through another patch to make it more stable.

Wuhu Island - After this video:

People have been labeling it as banned (pretty ridiculous if you ask me). The boat part is not even that long to begin with and it hasn't been tested with other characters yet. Plus, it can be patched out. (I hope they are joking around when throwing the term ban like that.)

I'd say more, but I'm too tired at the moment (it's 3:03 AM in NY). Let me know what you guys think of this person's list.

P.S. What's going on with Walk-Offs now? I hear people are considering some stages with walk-offs to be okay.

P.P.S. If walk-offs get an okay, I wanna say I really like the Wii Fit Studio because the mirror reveals some of what's going on at the edge of the stage. I really like that.

 

[Slyphoria]

There are certain recurring setups.
Speaking of which, it is possible for a handheld game console which looks a bit like a Game and Watch to appear on this stage. Mom can come out of this.

Yeah, the Balloon Fighter handheld. I had it happen to me yesterday.

It's uh, interesting.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I actually did test Wuhu Island in that exact match-up a few pages back. I wasn't able to reproduce that behavior; it's a freak glitch that just as likely will never come up again. We just had a tournament here today with Wuu Island legal; it was a total non-issue as the stage is fantastic in general.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I actually did test Wuhu Island in that exact match-up a few pages back. I wasn't able to reproduce that behavior; it's a freak glitch that just as likely will never come up again. We just had a tournament here today with Wuu Island legal; it was a total non-issue as the stage is fantastic in general.

Well, at the very least one Wuhu stage should make it out of this.


Btw, I was watching a doubles tournament, and that got me thinking we haven't really been discussing doubles stages. Any perceived stage differences between Singles and Doubles? Like is one stage iffy in singles, but would work fine in doubles?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Wuhu Island - After this video:

People have been labeling it as banned (pretty ridiculous if you ask me). The boat part is not even that long to begin with and it hasn't been tested with other characters yet. Plus, it can be patched out. (I hope they are joking around when throwing the term ban like that.)

We have Wuhu legal at our /r/smashbros tournaments still. I've tested tat stage and tried to replicate myself, it's so difficult to do it's not funny. People who are banning the stage because of that glitch are kneejerking badly, and you should straight up call them out on it. "I saw this one video and banned it without questioning it or testing it." Is just plain lazy and dare I say scrubish. Yes, I'm calling out top players and TOs on that one. Stop acting like idiots and actually test things before you ban them, or take a second to at least learn about them.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

We have Wuhu legal at our /r/smashbros tournaments still. I've tested tat stage and tried to replicate myself, it's so difficult to do it's not funny. People who are banning the stage because of that glitch are kneejerking badly, and you should straight up call them out on it. "I saw this one video and banned it without questioning it or testing it." Is just plain lazy and dare I say scrubish. Yes, I'm calling out top players and TOs on that one. Stop acting like idiots and actually test things before you ban them, or take a second to at least learn about them.

Which is why I'm doing my research series.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to decide between Wuhu Island and Mushroom Kingdom U for my next one. Both are getting a bit of discussion lately.

 

[Piford]

Which is why I'm doing my research series.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to decide between Wuhu Island and Mushroom Kingdom U for my next one. Both are getting a bit of discussion lately.

Mushroom Kingdom U has more to show and talk about probably; I'd suggest that.

 

[smashmachine]

Which is why I'm doing my research series.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to decide between Wuhu Island and Mushroom Kingdom U for my next one. Both are getting a bit of discussion lately.

do Wuhu Island so you can maybe convince some of the people who had a kneejerk reaction on it to change their mind

 

[LiteralGrill]

Which is why I'm doing my research series.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to decide between Wuhu Island and Mushroom Kingdom U for my next one. Both are getting a bit of discussion lately.

I beg of you to do Wuhu. This stage is having to be fought for to even be legal right now at a lot of tournaments. While Mushroom Kingdom U I'm not even hearing suggestions to make legal from most people. I wanna focus on keeping something that's good in.

 

[ChemicalExperiment]

Which is why I'm doing my research series.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to decide between Wuhu Island and Mushroom Kingdom U for my next one. Both are getting a bit of discussion lately.

Please do Wuhu! The sooner we get people wanting to legalize it, the better.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The majority says Wuhu Island so that'll be the next one; expect a topic late tonight or sometime tomorrow, depending on how fast I get it done.

I'll do Mushroom Kingdom U after that.

 

[Uniit]

I'm not quite sure why Pokémon stadium 2 is still in, and stages like Mario Circuit (MK8) and Woolly World aren't. I can understand that PS2 effect have been mitigated from Brawl, but it still promote idle or heavily switch matchups.

3/4 effect change the gameplay in a way that is no coherent with "normal" play. It's like making a track in Mario Kart were no one can drift, thus taking out a good part of the gameplay for some reason. I feel like i have to play on this just to get how it work, and don't be screwed if i ever fight on this, or just ban it every game.

I was in thought of a pretty large stage list (like 9 starter + 9-11 couterpicks), but it'll surely result in complicated stage striking, or wierd counterpicks (like number of ban for 18-20 stages, or forgeting which stage is in).

We're surely going to run Apex 2015 rules and stage list anyway, probably like in KTAR XI :

Neutrals:
Town and City
Battlefield
Final Destination

Counter-picks:
Battleship Halberd
Kongo Jungle
Skyloft
Delfino
Pilot Wings
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege

Thus we can surely take in Smashville and DuckHunt for the neutral list (5 is a good number), and 2-3 more stages in CPs.

 

[Piford]

I'm not quite sure why Pokémon stadium 2 is still in, and stages like Mario Circuit (MK8) and Woolly World aren't. I can understand that PS2 effect have been mitigated from Brawl, but it still promote idle or heavily switch matchups.

3/4 effect change the gameplay in a way that is no coherent with "normal" play. It's like making a track in Mario Kart were no one can drift, thus taking out a good part of the gameplay for some reason. I feel like i have to play on this just to get how it work, and don't be screwed if i ever fight on this, or just ban it every game.

I was in thought of a pretty large stage list (like 9 starter + 9-11 couterpicks), but it'll surely result in complicated stage striking, or wierd counterpicks (like number of ban for 18-20 stages, or forgeting which stage is in).

We're surely going to run Apex 2015 rules and stage list anyway, probably like in KTAR XI :

Neutrals:
Town and City
Battlefield
Final Destination

Counter-picks:
Battleship Halberd
Kongo Jungle
Skyloft
Delfino
Pilot Wings
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege

Thus we can surely take in Smashville and DuckHunt for the neutral list (5 is a good number), and 2-3 more stages in CPs.

So Pokemon Stadium 2 is actually a really great stage this time around. You still got the great starting layout for the majority of the match, and now you have a bunch of transformations that really don't interfere with the battle. They're all better than both the Fire and Rock transformations from the original and they don't effect the game too much. Plus they can add a lot of options which is always good.

Also there's no stage called Battleship Halberd. It's just Halberd and it's never been Battleship Halberd. Also the official name in this game is Kongo Jungle 64.

Edit:
I made a post on the subreddit about banning stages.
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2nip8v/why_we_should_be_careful_when_banning_stages/

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Wuhu Island's research is done, and the stage is much simpler to get a grasp on than I expected. Check it out, leave a like, etc.

 

[LunarDistortion]

Is there a definite answer to whether Walkoff's are good or bad yet? Because if they are okay, I think Coliseum and Wii Fit Studio would be good Neutral/CP choices. I would also say Mario Galaxy, but I don't know how the gravity affects gameplay.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Well it's far from unanimous, but I for one hate the idea of a stage not having all four blast lines. Recovery and edgeguarding is practically the heart and soul of Smash IMO, taking those mechanics out feels criminal.

 

[Piford]

Is there a definite answer to whether Walkoff's are good or bad yet? Because if they are okay, I think Coliseum and Wii Fit Studio would be good Neutral/CP choices. I would also say Mario Galaxy, but I don't know how the gravity affects gameplay.

No there's no data at all on whether walk-offs are good or bad.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I was reading over a thread on /r/smashbros today (that was posted by @ Piford you should totally read it) and it gave me a massive realization.

"I don't WANT to play on a stage with hazards,"

"I don't WANT to play on stages with water."

"I don't WANT to deal with the stage, just with my opponent."

Guys, the reasons most people are using to ban stages are scrub logic. Self imposed rules on what the game should be vs what the game actually is. This blew my mind a bit. When you see people saying things like "want" and not providing actual reasons to warrant a ban (irrefutable evidence a stage is busted) the only response should be "you can play it that way, but please don't suggest we do so in a competitive setting. I don't want scrubish rules effecting the competitive arena."

Anyways, with that off my chest...

Why don't you look at the new Hypest Ruleset!!!​

Any feedback on the stagelist would be totally appreciated guys!

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I was reading over a thread on /r/smashbros today (that was posted by @ Piford you should totally read it) and it gave me a massive realization.

"I don't WANT to play on a stage with hazards,"

"I don't WANT to play on stages with water."

"I don't WANT to deal with the stage, just with my opponent."

Guys, the reasons most people are using to ban stages are scrub logic. Self imposed rules on what the game should be vs what the game actually is. This blew my mind a bit. When you see people saying things like "want" and not providing actual reasons to warrant a ban (irrefutable evidence a stage is busted) the only response should be "you can play it that way, but please don't suggest we do so in a competitive setting. I don't want scrubish rules effecting the competitive arena."

Anyways, with that off my chest...

Why don't you look at the new Hypest Ruleset!!!​

Any feedback on the stagelist would be totally appreciated guys!

That stage list is fantastic!...With that said, you are putting Pilotwings as a starter knowing full well people could potentially camp on it? I would love for it to be legal...but starter? I'm curious at your reasoning.