Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread

[Piford]

After watching the footage, I've given up on Wrecking Crew. It seemed like a cool idea, but I can see its problems in real matches. I do hope an idea like this is tried again in a smaller stage.



Dude; I think that Robin was just careless. For starters anyone could see the wall was coming if you just paid attention to the background. It was his fault more than the state's. This isn't poke floats where this stuff comes out of nowhere.

Pokefloats is 100% predictable. The stuff comes out of the same place every single time. Pokefloats main problem was abusing floats that got close to the blastzone, the fact that the stage was kinda broken (like falling through the floats for no reason), and the lack of grabbable edges.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Pokefloats is 100% predictable. The stuff comes out of the same place every single time. Pokefloats main problem was abusing floats that got close to the blastzone, the fact that the stage was kinda broken (like falling through the floats for no reason), and the lack of grabbable edges.

Was Waboufett predictable? I can't remember but wasn't he the unpredictable one.

 

[Piford]

Was Waboufett predictable? I can't remember but wasn't he the unpredictable one.

He's 100% perdictable, but he comes out with no warning.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

He's 100% perdictable, but he comes out with no warning.

Well, my point is, is that that issue with the wall was entirely on the players, not the stage being against them.

I bet you that someone who truly practices this stage would be able to know where to be with just a slight glance at their surroundings.

 

[SonicZeroX]

So as pretty as the new FD is, it's kinda eye-searing with all of the glowing that goes on. If we're gonna separate FD from the omegas for counterpicking, I think Omega-Battlefield should be the neutral stage and FD should actually be grouped with the other omegas.

 

[guedes the brawler]

So, Day 1 testing from NS turned up some pretty great reasons to definitively ban Mario Circuit and Mushroomy Kingdom U (if for some reason you were still on the fence about Nabbit)

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=14m37s

http://youtu.be/Z23EfOqfURM?t=54m23s

List I'm running at tournament tomorrow:

3 stage bans
Starter (7)

Battlefield
Smashville
Wuhu Island
Kongo 64
Lylat Cruise
Final Destination
Halberd

Counter
City & Town
Castle Siege
Skyloft
Delfino Plaza
Pilot Wings
Big BF
Windy Hill
Wooly World
Coliseum
Wii Fit Studio
Mario Galaxy
Duck Hunt

um. couldn't robin have teched during the landing?

 

[Das Koopa]

After watching the footage, I've given up on Wrecking Crew. It seemed like a cool idea, but I can see its problems in real matches. I do hope an idea like this is tried again in a smaller stage.



Dude; I think that Robin was just careless. For starters anyone could see the wall was coming if you just paid attention to the background. It was his fault more than the state's. This isn't poke floats where this stuff comes out of nowhere.

There's pretty much no way to have guess that the stage would've tilted in a manner where the road was above him. The road did around 100% from just bouncing.

He wasn't even being careless. If a stage makes it where "Carelessness" = "Getting hit after a short hop into 100%", then the stage ought to be banned. It was already on the edge anyway - car hazards historically screw players over during grabs and can completely change the outcome of a match with little-to-no warning. I'd support it being banned purely off of that.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

There's pretty much no way to have guess that the stage would've tilted in a manner where the road was above him. The road did around 100% from just bouncing.

He wasn't even being careless. If a stage makes it where "Carelessness" = "Getting hit after a short hop into 100%", then the stage ought to be banned. It was already on the edge anyway - car hazards historically screw players over during grabs and can completely change the outcome of a match with little-to-no warning. I'd support it being banned purely off of that.

Just look at the background and study which parts of the stage becomes a bloody wall. It's easy when you just take a glance at the stage. If he practiced, he would've watched his step knowing that the wall above him would be harmful.

Pfft, those cars have had next to no impact in any match I've seen thus far, and what little they do is negligible. And they are slower than any of the car hazards from previous titles.

 

[Das Koopa]

Pfft, those cars have had next to no impact in any match I've seen thus far, and what little they do is negligible. And they are slower than any of the car hazards from previous titles.

It doesn't really matter. Mute City's were fairly predictable, but this happened;

Prime example of why stage hazards are usually not okay, and at the absolute top levels of play at that. Predictability means nothing if the hazards are intruding at a critical moment (ex; Grab/combo) or otherwise drastically change the match.

The stage will be banned. The wall is a minor example in comparison to the cars, but it presents a bigger issue. Ex; What if you're grabbed and thrown up into the wall? It disproportionately rewards the player who can get an upwards-momentum hit on their opponent.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

It doesn't really matter. Mute City's were fairly predictable, but this happened;

Prime example of why stage hazards are usually not okay, and at the absolute top levels of play at that. Predictability means nothing if the hazards are intruding at a critical moment (ex; Grab/combo) or otherwise drastically change the match.

The stage will be banned. The wall is a minor example in comparison to the cars, but it presents a bigger issue. Ex; What if you're grabbed and thrown up into the wall? It disproportionately rewards the player who can get an upwards-momentum hit on their opponent.

One Ken combo interrupted because of the floor in that section seems more like just a normal Counter pick decision. The worst was when those cars juggled PC which I haven't seen happen in MK8 stage nor have I seen the MK8 cars actually get so tightly spaced like that. Either way, I felt that match was won fairly if not for that section of car juggling.

The thing is though, this stage walls appear on every angle. It benefits pretty much every character evenly seeing as there's no preference on a side. And they can still tech walls.

 

[Piford]

So after playing a bunch on each stage, here's a ranking about how I feel how fit for competitive play they are.

1. Smashville
2. Battlefield
3. Town and City
4. Lylat Cruise
5. Final Destination
6. Duck Hunt
7. Pilot Wings
8. Skyloft
9. Halberd
10. Kongo Jungle 64
11. Castle Siege
12. Wuhu Island
13. Delphino Plaza
14. Windy Hill Zone
15. Pokemon Stadium 2
16. Big Battlefield
17. Orbital Gate Assault
18. Coliseum
19. Wii Fit Studio
20. Mario Galaxy
21. Norfair
22. Luigi's Mansion
23. Wooly World
---------------------------------
24. Mario Circuit (Wii U)
25. Port Town Aero Dive
26. Garden Of Hope
27. Onett
28. Gamer
29. Kalos Pokemon League
30. Skyworld
31. Yoshi's Island
32. Mushroom Kingdom U
33. Wrecking Crew
34. Mario Circuit (Brawl)
35. Pac-Land
36. Jungle Hijinx
37. Bridge of Eldin
38. Boxing Ring
39. Wily Castle
40. 75m
41. Temple
42. Pyrosphere
43. Flatzone X
44. Palutena's Temple
45. Gaur Plains
46. Great Cave Offensive

The dashed line is where the stage kinda gets to be too much. Some of the stages right after the dashed line could still work (probably up to 33), but probably aren't worth fighting for and they all have problems.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

So after playing a bunch on each stage, here's a ranking about how I feel how fit for competitive play they are.

1. Smashville
2. Battlefield
3. Town and City
4. Lylat Cruise
5. Final Destination
6. Duck Hunt
7. Pilot Wings
8. Skyloft
9. Halberd
10. Kongo Jungle 64
11. Castle Siege
12. Wuhu Island
13. Delphino Plaza
14. Windy Hill Zone
15. Pokemon Stadium 2
16. Big Battlefield
17. Orbital Gate Assault
18. Coliseum
19. Wii Fit Studio
20. Mario Galaxy
21. Norfair
22. Luigi's Mansion
23. Wooly World
---------------------------------
24. Mario Circuit (Wii U)
25. Port Town Aero Dive
26. Garden Of Hope
27. Onett
28. Gamer
29. Kalos Pokemon League
30. Skyworld
31. Yoshi's Island
32. Mushroom Kingdom U
33. Wrecking Crew
34. Mario Circuit (Brawl)
35. Pac-Land
36. Jungle Hijinx
37. Bridge of Eldin
38. Boxing Ring
39. Wily Castle
40. 75m
41. Temple
42. Pyrosphere
43. Flatzone X
44. Palutena's Temple
45. Gaur Plains
46. Great Cave Offensive

The dashed line is where the stage kinda gets to be too much. Some of the stages right after the dashed line could still work (probably up to 33), but probably aren't worth fighting for and they all have problems.

23 legal stages though if we only get those. Of course, looking at the list, that also assumes that we are actually able to fight for walk offs.

I've given up on Wrecking Crew being legal. While it's fun to play on, it isn't really that fair.

I've seen a lot of people suspicious of Pilotwings. I do hope that does become legal. It's one of my favorite stages in the wii u version to play on. I don't think the walls cause too much of a problem. The only questionable thing to me is the temporary floor between the volcano and the swordfighting arena. But even then, everything is both predictable, and can be seen coming.

 

[Slyphoria]

I will say, if the walkoffs on Pac-Land weren't the main issue, then everything else is. I more than anything don't want it legal. I want to relock it and never have it on the stage select ever again. Too bad the medleys are so cool because the stage is the worst. It's worse than 75m. I'd rather play on Palutena's Temple or Great Cave Offensive. I'd rather play on Icicle Mountain. It's that bad. (I experienced the worst of it with the 2-player Event where Pacman and Link need to get to the fairy while fighting off 4 Kirbys. It's terrible.)

Also, yup, I give up on Jungle Hijinx too. It's a cool stage but HORRIBLE for competitive. Not a stage for 1v1 at all.

I've seen a lot of people suspicious of Pilotwings. I do hope that does become legal. It's one of my favorite stages in the wii u version to play on. I don't think the walls cause too much of a problem. The only questionable thing to me is the temporary floor between the volcano and the swordfighting arena. But even then, everything is both predictable, and can be seen coming.

Yeah. It's a counterpick for now, but there's a pretty good chance that down the line it'll get banned for something. It's too bad, because it's really a beautiful stage. Those walls can be killer though.

When the plane goes through that short cave, I hit my friend up to the top right, he hit that wall, then hit the left wall, and died off the top. I imagine that'll get crazy at tournaments, and people will probably end up hating it.

 

[Raziek]

How does Little mac and probably Ganondorf stop 33% of the cast from circle camping him on Kongo Jungle.
R.I.P jungle.

You..... Really don't understand how things work.

Half the cast can do that to Mac on BATTLEFIELD.

You don't ban a perfectly good stage because ONE character is bad on it.

 

[LiteralGrill]

How does Little mac and probably Ganondorf stop 33% of the cast from circle camping him on Kongo Jungle.
R.I.P jungle.

In the case of Little Mac: "Too bad". Every time someone says a stage is bad for him that will always be my responce. He's a gimicky character, we CAN'T destroy out stagelist to cater to him.

In Ganon's case: can he still get camped? We have two options. Use your ban on that stage or face the consequences, or since you pick stages first, CP to a secondary.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Also, sorry for the double post but didn't want this to be lost in my last response. This is what we ended up going with for the first /r/smashbros tournament. I'd love to get to hear any thoughts on it.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Pretty reasonable list I'd say. Aside from any list containing Norfair or Orbital Gate Assault, it's probably the most liberal I expect the Smash Wii U list to get. (Actually judging by some reactions of MK8, that looks like it has worse chances than Norfair.)

 

[Piford]

Also, sorry for the double post but didn't want this to be lost in my last response. This is what we ended up going with for the first /r/smashbros tournament. I'd love to get to hear any thoughts on it.

That list is great. I'm still not a huge fan of putting Mario Circuit over Orbital Gate Assault or Norfair, but I hope this can show people that stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 are fine.

Speaking of Orbital Gate Assault, I wrote up an analysis of it on the subreddit. What do you guy's think and did I miss anything?

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

That list is great. I'm still not a huge fan of putting Mario Circuit over Orbital Gate Assault or Norfair, but I hope this can show people that stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 are fine.

Speaking of Orbital Gate Assault, I wrote up an analysis of it on the subreddit. What do you guy's think and did I miss anything?

From a formatting point of view, no reddit user will look at this word block without groaning. I suggest trying to space some paragraphs a bit more so it's not as intimidating looking and probably format some of this as a list instead of even paragraphs.

You also forgot to mention that the missile pushes into the shield slightly.

Other than that, solid analysis.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Pretty reasonable list I'd say. Aside from any list containing Norfair or Orbital Gate Assault, it's probably the most liberal I expect the Smash Wii U list to get. (Actually judging by some reactions of MK8, that looks like it has worse chances than Norfair.)

I will not be surprised if a few stages leave this list over time like our 3DS list did. I still think if we stick to our guns and make sure proper stage knowledge is out there we might be able to save more.

With this list, we probably will not have a science event now though, so few stages left to consider in the end. Still, this may change in the future depending.

We still don't have a doubles list yet, but I doubt there will honestly be many changes.

I am curious on the starter selection. Is Castle Siege too far? I remember it being a starter on larger Brawl lists, and we wanted a larger selection. I don't think we could reasonably make it up to 9 though.

 

[wildvine47]

Is the consensus on Woolly World that it's dead then? I think it's a really nice stage for competitive play and there's very little on it that makes it unfair, but I'm seeing it on very very few stagelists.

Any reason why people are against it? The fact that it transitions to the aerial version rather quickly prevents walkoff camping from being a big deal, and the platform layout makes for some really interesting strategies.

 

[Piford]

I will not be surprised if a few stages leave this list over time like our 3DS list did. I still think if we stick to our guns and make sure proper stage knowledge is out there we might be able to save more.

With this list, we probably will not have a science event now though, so few stages left to consider in the end. Still, this may change in the future depending.

We still don't have a doubles list yet, but I doubt there will honestly be many changes.

I am curious on the starter selection. Is Castle Siege too far? I remember it being a starter on larger Brawl lists, and we wanted a larger selection. I don't think we could reasonably make it up to 9 though.

Castle Siege definitely isn't too far on a starter stage list. Shouldn't the starter list feature a wide variety of stages as to not give some characters an advantage. I think only putting stages that are nearly static would actually make the game imbalanced because it hurts the characters who are better on transforming stages.

 

[C-stick Gaming]

Here is just a stage list we might be able to use
Starters
Battlefield
FD
Smashville
Town and city
Lylat
Counter picks
Halberd

 

[cardboardowl]

I really like the mario circuit. The walls add an interesting aspect to the match and you can just tech it when you get hit. It's not random either.

 

[aethermaster]

So I've been looking at the Duck Hunt stage for a good hour or so and testing its mechanics so excuse me if this has been said already by another poster:

Spoiler

• The stage functions as a working version of NES Duck Hunt (obviously). Each round 1 or 2 ducks come out, if you hit them the dog comes out and shows the ducks. If not, he laughs at you. Pretty standard. Hitting all the ducks in a round will get you a perfect, but no items or bonuses will appear from what I have tested (All 9 rounds when it restarts to 1).
• The dog is a platform when he comes up. If below him, characters will lift upHe comes up and leaves very quickly (only staying and then going for about 2 or 3 seconds)
• The ducks are not platforms
• The dog will only appear between the tree on the left to the bush on the right. It will NOT go farther than that. I've tried knocking down the ducks on the ends of both sides and it just stays between.
• The tree on the left and the bush on the right are both platforms. The tree has five platforms and the bush is only one.
• At its base, the stage has walls on the side similar to others seen in omega mode
• Grass will show up randomly and when behind it you can't see your character. They will show up for about 10 seconds before disappearing. Unlike the dog, these patches of grass will appear anywhere, including beyond the bush and tree.
• Ness's PK thunder will stop if it hits the ducks. Obviously the ducks will not go offstage so his recovery isn't hindered. The ducks will also go down if the tail of PK thunder hits them.

Verdict: I know this stage has been heavily agreed upon for starting status and I agree with it. I was just curious for myself if there was anything that made this stage broken, but no, there doesn't seem to be anything. There's nothing glaringly wrong with this stage and the things that happen only come up for max ten seconds. There are no bonuses hitting the ducks. Its just a game within a game really. At the VERY least, this stage should be counter pick but it'd be really stupid not to see this stage as a starter IMO. If Halberd and Castle Siege were a counter picks, this should be starter easily.

That's all I have about this stage. If anybody wants to add anything to this, be my guest.

 

[-Kagato-]

After playing for a while, this is my general thoughts:


Neutral Starters

All of these stages have little to no hazards with decent sizes for 1v1 play and few situations where the stage becomes too obstructive (walls and ceilings),

Battlefield - Standard

Final Destination and all Omega Stages - Standard

Kongo Jungle 64 - Big blast zones and a barrel under the stage, but otherwise a very neutral stage.

Lylat Cruise - Slanted sides and dat lip, but otherwise a fine stage.

Smashville - FD with a floating platform.

Town and City - FD with lots of floating platforms.

Duck Hunt - FD with a few tiny stationary platforms, and a dog!



Counterpicks

These stages are close to being completely competitive, but may have minor stage hazards, small obstructive pieces of the environment, or various stage transitions.

Halberd - Retardedly easy hazards.

Delfino Plaza - No hazards, but has water elements and a few walls and walk-offs. Nothing permanent or major.

Skyloft - Like delfino plaza, there's a few stage elements that are a hindrance, but they don't last long and is otherwise a fine stage. Things of note are the recovery-hurting waterfalls, but you'd need to be hit down there to really have it affect you for the 10 seconds that transition is there. Also, there are some rare moments while flying around that a piece of the landscape can hit a player for minor damage and send them flying back in the other direction. These moments are rare and are only available for a split second. I spiked Luigi right into one, preventing him from dying. Feels more like Brinstar Acid than a full-on stage kill. I still feel this stage is counterpick-worthy despite all this. After all, if Halberd and it's hazards are legal, the minor hazards here should be no trouble at all.

Castle Siege - Only the 2nd transition is the place that turns this from a neutral to a counterpick. The statues and walk-offs, but they're not major.

Wuhu Island - There's water elements no different than delfino. The only true hazardous and questionable parts are the speedboat that kills similarly to Pirate Ship's from Brawl (and faster), as well as the beach, which is massive. However, transitions last only 10-12 seconds each and most of the stage is harmless with tons of variety. Also, the boat really only harms people with a bad horizontal recovery since they need to recover straight up and down, though if they land in the water far enough away, they can recover without worry.

Pilotwings - Sometimes there's a wall element and a short freefall element, but otherwise a harmless tilting stage.



Questionable

These are stages that I believe have the potential to be made into counterpicks, but there are some instances in the stage that can really screw things up, whether it's certain hazards, stage obstructions, or other problems.

Mushroom Kingdom U - The hazards and stage transitions honestly are not bad. However, there is one thing about this stage that turns it from a possible counterpick to something more debatable: Nabbit. Though mash the buttons enough and you'll escape just fine, he's just there to be a pest with a chance of actually killing someone. He's easy to kill and against good players, he probably wont have a chance at grabbing anyone, let alone killing anyone. The icicles and blowfish are stupid easy to avoid though, unless you get the secret surprise blowfish pop-up from underneath.

Pokemon Stadium 2 - The only thing truly bad about this stage are the transitions that mess with the physics of the stage, whether you're slipping around or floating, or jumping over treadmills.



Possible, but should be banned

These are stages that have a lot of the elements to be a legal stage, but has either one or more major problems that ruin the entire thing.

Big Battlefield - Just too big for 1v1. Even too big for teams.

Mario Circuit - Almost considered this a counterpick, but then I examined it more closely. Cars aren't NEARLY as deadly as Port Town's and are easily dodged, but the fact they're even there means that they could ruin the flow. Also, there is a single moment where, if timed perfectly, you can kill an opponent by throwing them up into the ceiling as the stage begins it's transition to lock them into an instant-death situation.

Luigi's Mansion - Ceiling shenanigans.

Kalos Pokemon League - Lots of hazards, but many of them are easily avoidable, but the fact there's so many make this place likely to be banned, but still something worth discussing. But with all the other possible stages, it's not worth it. The sword portion is what makes this most likely to be banned rather than 'questionable.'

-Windy Hill Zone - Huge, but the biggest problem are the springs on the sides. Otherwise it's just big.



Definitely should be banned

Everything else.

 

[Thinkaman]

My quick list, after a night of playing 1v1s with limited commentary.

1. Smashville
2. Town and City
3. Battlefield
4. Final Destination
5. Lylat Cruise
6. Skyloft Great stage, fantastic.
7. Pilot Wings
8. Duck Hunt Personally, I found it somewhat unenjoyable to play on. I also worry about the high platforms being polarizing.
9. Halberd
10. Delphino Plaza
11. Castle Siege
12. Mushroom Kingdom U GREAT stage. Nabbit is hilarious and not really a lethal threat. I can mash out at very high %s.
13. Wuhu Island More disruptive than other transforming stages.
14. Mario Circuit (Wii U) Why is everyone up in arms over this stage?
15. Norfair Don't tread on my dreams. Best stage of all time.
16. Pokemon Stadium 2
17. Kongo Jungle 64 Seems pretty campable still... unsure on this one.
---------------------------------
18. Windy Hill Zone Ditto, but currently more pessimistic here. Needs more testing.
19. Big Battlefield ^^^^^
20. Orbital Gate Assault To my surprise, I actually found the stage layouts, movements, and transformations genuinely disruptive and obnoxious.
21. Luigi's Mansion
22. Gamer Surprisingly, not that bad. Not quite legal-worthy, but not that bad.
23. Port Town Aero Dive I still like this stage, but it's still too disruptive and polarizing. Imo the cars are still problematic.
24. Kalos Pokemon League
25. Garden Of Hope Also not actually that bad, like Gamer. But the crab was still problematic.
26. Jungle Hijinx Like Gamer, not actually that bad in practice.
27. Wooly World This was the only stage we played that really degenerated. The platforms are just too obnoxious in many matchups.
28. Skyworld Not awful, but you know the drill.
29. Coliseum Walk-offs did prove problematic, to the surprise of no one.
30. Wii Fit Studio
31. Wrecking Crew Was not a disaster in practice, but we did turn it off pretty quick--even by my liberal standards.
32. Mario Circuit (Brawl)
33. Mario Galaxy
34. Wily Castle I still insist Wily's/Yellow Devil isn't THAT bad.
35. Bridge of Eldin
36. Onett
37. Boxing Ring
38. Pyrosphere
39. Yoshi's Island
40. Pac-Land
41. Flatzone X
42. 75m
43. Gaur Plains
44. Temple
45. Palutena's Temple
46. Great Cave Offensive

The real winner of the night was Mushroomy Kingdom U. It's great, everyone loved it, people requested to play on it additional times explicitly. Nabbit is extremely hateable and hilarious. He never once killed anyone, or even came close. Even at high %s (130%+) I could always break out with "ok" mash skills.

The real losers were Wrecking Crew and Wooly World, which seemed to have their runaway and camp fears proven true decisively. Also Orbital Gate Assault, which was (to my surprise) every bit as disruptive as it looks. We palyed on it multiple times because I thought we'd learn it and get used to it, but seemingly no progress was made. It really does feel a more disruptive, less exploitable and campy Pokefloats.

 

[StripedNinja]

Im sure someone else has brought this up but what do you guys think of the idea or recreating legal stages via stage builder?

 

[GamerGuy09]

What is the general consensus for Omega forms of stages?

Will they not be played because its complicated?

 

[Thinkaman]

Im sure someone else has brought this up but what do you guys think of the idea or recreating legal stages via stage builder?

To be blunt, this is an impossible solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

We are still freaking out over what to do with this many (good) stages.

What is the general consensus for Omega forms of stages?

Will they not be played because its complicated?

They will be allowed under some form of sub-slection criteria, as different options for FD. (But all "one stage" for all legality purposes)

 

[Slyphoria]

For Port Town: Aero Dive, I'm not sure about you guys, but getting hit by a car while on a platform is a No-No to me. Ruined my Crazy Orders run from like 40%.
----
Gamer is interesting. In my many times on it, the only time anyone's got hit by Mom's gaze was when they were thrown into it or the CPU acted like a moron and stood out there. What's also interesting is that the stage has the same tells as the Gamer minigame. Maybe it could be legal if you used the Gamer music only? The audio has a ton of tells.
----
I like Orbital Gate Assault, but it's still a bit iffy. Even if it's not that hazardous, the platforms are a bit janky. I need to play it more, though.

I played a Little Mac ditto against a friend on it. It was hilarious.
----
Jungle Hijinx is a big no. Way too campy and huge, especially on the back plane. Might be fine for doubles, but I'm not sure even then. If 3v3 matches become a thing, then definitely.
----
Kongo Jungle 64 is fine. I played on it as Ganondorf with not really any problems. If you're worried about it, use a stage ban on it.
----
I still really like Windy Hill Zone. It's probably one of my favorite new stages.
----
After playing on Norfair more, I quite like it. It needs to be a part of more stage lists.

 

[ZHMT]

Edit: Sorry, I posted this in the general stage discussion but thought it would be more applicable here.

As much as I want Kongo Jungle to be legal in singles, I can't see it happening unfortunately. Its my favorite stage in Smash and a good one for my character but being unbiased I have to say he stage is borderline broken for certain characters. The biggest problem I'm facing here is the barrel. How exactly does it work in this game? It seems like when launched, you are invincible and become a temporary hitbox. If it wasn't for the barrel I can see it being fine. Right now I can literally not touch solid ground for 5 minutes if I wanted to with Jigglypuff and shark under the floor. Pound makes waiting for the barrel easy as well. Someone please find a flaw in my logic so it can be legal <<.

In teams I don't see it being a huge issue and most characters can't fully abuse the stage, but Kirby, Puff, MK, and most characters with multiple jumps can stall and stall. Maybe a scrooging rule can fix it but if that's the case we may as well ban the stage instead.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Edit: Sorry, I posted this in the general stage discussion but thought it would be more applicable here.

As much as I want Kongo Jungle to be legal in singles, I can't see it happening unfortunately. Its my favorite stage in Smash and a good one for my character but being unbiased I have to say he stage is borderline broken for certain characters. The biggest problem I'm facing here is the barrel. How exactly does it work in this game? It seems like when launched, you are invincible and become a temporary hitbox. If it wasn't for the barrel I can see it being fine. Right now I can literally not touch solid ground for 5 minutes if I wanted to with Jigglypuff and shark under the floor. Pound makes waiting for the barrel easy as well. Someone please find a flaw in my logic so it can be legal <<.

In teams I don't see it being a huge issue and most characters can't fully abuse the stage, but Kirby, Puff, MK, and most characters with multiple jumps can stall and stall. Maybe a scrooging rule can fix it but if that's the case we may as well ban the stage instead.

No one I have seen has brought this up. This is a seriously worthy thought. I wonder if any characters have moves that can still sorta hit under the stage. That, or I wonder if you could just jump up top so the player couldn't use it. Either way testing this is worth a shot.

On that note, you can stand on the engine on Pilot Wings on the yellow plane. It's not easy to get there, but some characters can and there is like NO safe way to approach them there and they can shark too. That along with the plane being a wall for camping may turn out to be too big an issue.

 

[ZHMT]

Sharking is very good but due to new ledge mechanics doesn't completely break stages. Also yes, moves can go through floors of stages. The issue isn't that, its the barrel. I hope that you are vunerable at the end of it perhaps? The barrel may have set knockback, didn't test it, so you can easily punish it if it had vunerable frames when launched and it was set kb. I've combo'd someone into a rest because they tried hitting me at the apex of the barrel launch >>

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

No one I have seen has brought this up. This is a seriously worthy thought. I wonder if any characters have moves that can still sorta hit under the stage. That, or I wonder if you could just jump up top so the player couldn't use it. Either way testing this is worth a shot.

On that note, you can stand on the engine on Pilot Wings on the yellow plane. It's not easy to get there, but some characters can and there is like NO safe way to approach them there and they can shark too. That along with the plane being a wall for camping may turn out to be too big an issue.

Sharking is very good but due to new ledge mechanics doesn't completely break stages. Also yes, moves can go through floors of stages. The issue isn't that, its the barrel. I hope that you are vunerable at the end of it perhaps? The barrel may have set knockback, didn't test it, so you can easily punish it if it had vunerable frames when launched and it was set kb. I've combo'd someone into a rest because they tried hitting me at the apex of the barrel launch >>

*Sigh* Really? Two good looking stages might be ruined by such simple things? Especially Pilotwings, thats actually my favorite stage to play on. :/ (And the omega version looks atrocious.)

I do hope further testing can solve the issue...

 

[LiteralGrill]

*Sigh* Really? Two good looking stages might be ruined by such simple things? Especially Pilotwings, thats actually my favorite stage to play on. :/ (And the omega version looks atrocious.)

I do hope further testing can solve the issue...

I hope so too. I'm not sold that Kongo is going to be an issue, but if you could try to camp the red plane AND the yellow plane too? it would be tough to have a good match there

 

[Piford]

I hope so too. I'm not sold that Kongo is going to be an issue, but if you could try to camp the red plane AND the yellow plane too? it would be tough to have a good match there

Where exactly on the yellow plain can you camp? I can't seem to find it.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Where exactly on the yellow plain can you camp? I can't seem to find it.

The little yellow engine thing under the wing. Try to pick someone like Jigglypuff and just hop up on there. I can do it with Olimar super easy.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Where exactly on the yellow plain can you camp? I can't seem to find it.

Here I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Shoutouts to MS Paint.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Here I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Shoutouts to MS Paint.

Yes that is EXACTLY it.