SSBB Tier List v3.0- What do u think of TL's new placing?

[GTR!]

Toon Link's projectiles are nothing but annoyances to a seasoned player. While useful, they still do not cover his weaknesses. Toon Link will only move up due to great players, his qualities as a character are not superior to those above him currently.

All the ATs in the world mean nothing if they don't set-up safe kills, allow TL to dish out the same amount of damage he may likely receive, and relieve him of being pressured (no blowing yourself in the face does NOT do this unless you're at...90%).

He's a mediocre character with outstanding characteristics on paper. In the field, he falls short.

Viet, why are you so **** smart.

On topic: He will stay right where he is, i mean no one has really had oustanding consistant tournament placings with him (correct me if im wrong) and also i mean there are just better characters. Don't get me wrong I love toon link. I love him as a character and everything; I wish he was higher i really do, but sadly i just dont see it happening.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

"TL is not gonna go up. He doesn't even get discussed. Needs more rep I guess."

This exactly

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

Tl wont be going anywhwere the reason being I'm not at the tourneys....lmaoo

THEN GO TO SOME NOW.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

lol TL's camping game isn't THAT good, stop playing online
Someone who's good at shielding is pretty much safe from pure projectile spam, you have to be really creative with them to get any use out of it

Also.....ROFLMAO, how does TL get outcamped by ROB but not Falco? What game are you playing?

On topic: TL isn't going to go up... whether he's improved or not doesn't matter much because the people making the tier list haven't recognized it

 

[TheJerm]

Viet, why are you so **** smart.

On topic: He will stay right where he is, i mean no one has really had oustanding consistant tournament placings with him (correct me if im wrong) and also i mean there are just better characters. Don't get me wrong I love toon link. I love him as a character and everything; I wish he was higher i really do, but sadly i just dont see it happening.

Veit is pretty wrong on that one. TL has everything he needs. There isnt one character who can shut down our options completely. TL has 1 or 2 bad match ups. TL is a veryy viable character. The reason he isnt ranked that high is because we only a minimal amount of representation for him. He is VERY underrated.

Also, I've won a few houston small tournaments. Just this past saturday I split in grand finals. That same weekend, quivo got 5th/70 and jash got 4th out of I dont know how many. But it can be done, and we are still improving. The top toon links know the true potential of TL, and people saying things like what VG just said is the reason he isnt as high on the tier list as some people want.

 

[Corpsecreate]

On topic: He will stay right where he is, i mean no one has really had oustanding consistant tournament placings with him (correct me if im wrong).

I've won about 10 tourneys with the little boy so far.

 

[GTR!]

Veit is pretty wrong on that one. TL has everything he needs. There isnt one character who can shut down our options completely. TL has 1 or 2 bad match ups. TL is a veryy viable character. The reason he isnt ranked that high is because we only a minimal amount of representation for him. He is VERY underrated.

Also, I've won a few houston small tournaments. Just this past saturday I split in grand finals. That same weekend, quivo got 5th/70 and jash got 4th out of I dont know how many. But it can be done, and we are still improving. The top toon links know the true potential of TL, and people saying things like what VG just said is the reason he isnt as high on the tier list as some people want.

I never said that TL wasnt a viable character sorry for the misunderstanding. In so many aspects your right, I love TL and because he has so many options that you can use based on matchups to make it so that your opponent can't shut you down.

And what veit said was that "TL will only move up due to great players." From what i know based on these boards etc. you seem to be one of if not the best TL out there as well as Jash and Quivo. So I wont debate the fact if it can/cant be done, in fact i congratulate you. because i would love to see Toon Link move up in the Tiers.

So im gonna stop ranting because i mean really this whole thing just goes down to opinion. I respect yours, honestly, but I just dont see TL moving up in the tiers because it takes the person handling TL to be great and in other cases like snake, you just have to be above average.

 

[BRLNK88]

TL doesn't have a "win button" like some of the high/top tiers do, and that'll prevent him from moving up much. He's either at a disadvantage or even with most of them too.
Having mained TL since before the game came out in the US, I'd like to see him bottom-high tier, but he just doesn't have the tournament presence other high tiers do. Snakeee picked up ZSS and look how far up she moved, someone needs to do that with TL. Azen is literally the only top pro I've seen use him in tournaments, and thats a rarity.
Although NL's TL is pretty ****ing awesome, maybe he can start a trend.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228712
this thread, this thread right here shows hope for toonlink. as this thread continues to grow toonlink's potential continues to rise. i have faith that toonlink will rise.
the main thing like others have been saying is we need more toonlinks and the toonlinks we have need to realize more of their personal potential.

i dont want toonlink to move up just because of all the noobs that would come =P

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Thanks Toondiddy! In a way, it's really just a continuation of your thread.
I owe a lot of what I know to your thread and the time you took to explain stuff to me when I first started. It's nice to hear from you again.

 

[Mota]

Toon Link can and deserves to move up on the Tier list.

I admit that most of his "ATs" are situaional/plain stupid but some have merit. Most TL Mainers have the most useful ATs burnt into their brains, B-Reversals, SHDA, bomb drop/invicibombing.

A couple ATs I find useful but arent being implemented in to Toon Links game are using areials whilst catching/still holding a bomb, SMS arrows & bomb fakeouts.
The learning curve puts people off, but these ATs would surely place TL higher, even without them TL should be higher then where is currently is.

 

[Pho]

Toon Link can and deserves to move up on the Tier list.

I admit that most of his "ATs" are situaional/plain stupid but some have merit. Most TL Mainers have the most useful ATs burnt into their brains, B-Reversals, SHDA, bomb drop/invicibombing.

A couple ATs I find useful but arent being implemented in to Toon Links game are using areials whilst catching/still holding a bomb, SMS arrows & bomb fakeouts.
The learning curve puts people off, but these ATs would surely place TL higher, even without them TL should be higher then where is currently is.

When you compare other people's advanced techniques, plus overall structure of each character, Toon Link will stay where he is.

 

[oOJaseOo]

@BRLNK88: Ness's back throw is a "win button" i dont see him goin very far up, Gannon's dair is considered a "win button" and he's considered the worst character by alot of ppl, and ninjalink's and azen's toons will never be as good as santi's or chip's because they dont main them just wanna throw that in there

 

[Santi]

I'm not gonna say anything

 

[copacetic]

Ness's back throw is a "win button" i dont see him goin very far up, Gannon's dair is considered a "win button" and he's considered the worst character by alot of ppl

Those are just good kill/damage moves, like our u-smash and back air. He means moves more like DDD's and Falco's chaingrabs which if you start them get you an automatic 40% or more, lead into other attacks, and are fairly easy to pull off. And MK.

TL doesn't have anything that he can do that guarantees something more on opponents. Almost every chain or "combo" that we have can be DI'd out of, and our projectile game, while versatile, is fairly slow and many seasoned players can just powershield them. Which is why we have to be smarter than them and mix up our game unpredictably, otherwise it won't work.

We don't have safe kill moves or setups for them, and our gimp game isn't all that great on most characters.

We do rack up damage pretty well and we have a ton of options for everything. We don't really have a move that's bad in any sense (even d-tilt can be useful), we just don't have anything that's amazing. So TL's skill is more up to what the player can do with all his options than any general win-button the character has. Hence him staying where he is on the list, even if some people are incredible with him

/rant

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Thanks Toondiddy! In a way, it's really just a continuation of your thread.
I owe a lot of what I know to your thread and the time you took to explain stuff to me when I first started. It's nice to hear from you again.

yea, your thread started off with just projectiles and then expanded into so much more. im glad that even though my thread died the content is still easy to find in yours. no problem explaining the grey areas we were all once in that position.
lol after my thread died i didnt have much reasob to come to the charcter boards so that explains my absence.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Veit is pretty wrong on that one. TL has everything he needs. There isnt one character who can shut down our options completely. TL has 1 or 2 bad match ups. TL is a veryy viable character. The reason he isnt ranked that high is because we only a minimal amount of representation for him. He is VERY underrated.

Also, I've won a few houston small tournaments. Just this past saturday I split in grand finals. That same weekend, quivo got 5th/70 and jash got 4th out of I dont know how many. But it can be done, and we are still improving. The top toon links know the true potential of TL, and people saying things like what VG just said is the reason he isnt as high on the tier list as some people want.

I agree with EVERYTHING you said. Coming from one of the best Toon Link's, I have a feeling he will move up 2 spots. Thanks Jerm. You and HyRo, and Santi are the best Toon Link's.

He will move up 2 spots hopefully.

 

[Lobos]

Jerm - That same weekend there was like 6-7 tinks in top 5 for singles.....LOL I need to go to more stuff

 

[CaliburChamp]

I think T. Link will finally make it into high tier. People discovered many good strategies which helped a lot, and I see T. Link been placing better in tournaments.

 

[Ashraf23]

I dont think toon will be going anywhere. Other then the fact that I'm not at every tourny (LOL) toon is just a predictable character. We have to types of playstyles campy or not. Camping for too long can be stop and toon is just average close up. Getting a balance between camp and close combat is very deficult against those dominant tourny characters you usually see (snake,mk,Falco,etc) I think maybe later down the road our young hero could sneek into high tier.

 

[TheJerm]

Jerm - That same weekend there was like 6-7 tinks in top 5 for singles.....LOL I need to go to more stuff

haha yea, we owned that weekend.

 

[oOJaseOo]

Those are just good kill/damage moves, like our u-smash and back air. He means moves more like DDD's and Falco's chaingrabs which if you start them get you an automatic 40% or more, lead into other attacks, and are fairly easy to pull off. And MK.

TL doesn't have anything that he can do that guarantees something more on opponents. Almost every chain or "combo" that we have can be DI'd out of, and our projectile game, while versatile, is fairly slow and many seasoned players can just powershield them. Which is why we have to be smarter than them and mix up our game unpredictably, otherwise it won't work.

We don't have safe kill moves or setups for them, and our gimp game isn't all that great on most characters.

We do rack up damage pretty well and we have a ton of options for everything. We don't really have a move that's bad in any sense (even d-tilt can be useful), we just don't have anything that's amazing. So TL's skill is more up to what the player can do with all his options than any general win-button the character has. Hence him staying where he is on the list, even if some people are incredible with him

/rant

Gunna have to admit that you got me thar dude i hardly play tlink anymore so im not up to snuff ',:/

 

[Omnipik]

Toons Fair is a great killing move and with relentless projectiles and Bair you can rack up the damage so you only need to land it once. Toon has so many possibilities and variables so players can constantly change their style. Toon Link wont hold you back he can fight any character and hes prepared. Toon should be higher in the tiers but not much higher.

 

[Nehemiah]

I agree that toon link is very versatle and can be played completely different for every different character, it's just some characters are very hard matchups as they shut down many options.

Falco's reflecter takes out all 3 projectiles and makes using the chain hard, but DIing out of his chain grab is easy

metaknight is very hard once he's close cause his fighting ability way surpasses ours, and he's just too fast to keep away with projectiles for long.

snake imo, is not hard to fight against, the only thing to really look out for is the mortar slide(which is easily avoidable) and keeping away from his ftilt and utilit

 

[Pho]

Toons Fair is a great killing move and with relentless projectiles and Bair you can rack up the damage so you only need to land it once.

You could say the same thing about all kill moves... Kill moves are meant to be land once for the kill. Problem with the fair is that there's few set ups and opportunities to land the fair than the up smash. The only true combo I use is bomb throw to fair at high percent, but even then they block the bomb, making the combo unreliable. I've been working on my nair kills, but it's annoying to land 10 other hits that are not nairs. Or, if you rack up enough percent, just kill them with an up tilt. It's only 20% more, which is honestly not that hard if you manage to get your opponent at kill percentage with the up smash.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

I'd like to ask something...

Many people are saying TL has good match-ups and that nobody really hinders him. The TL match-ups directory thread says differently though... he has a disadvantage against characters like DDD, Falco, Marth, Olimar, a BIG disadvantage against MK... the only notable advantages he has are against Diddy, DK and ICs (again, this is going by the stickied match-up directory)

How can someone who's weak vs all the influential characters (especially MK) become high tier? Have any of these match-ups even changed since they were originally discussed?

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ Yes theyve changed. Falco is still bad tho . The mk matchup is not as bad as it seemed at first tho its still clearly in his favor. Marth is even tho few ppl want to believe so. Only jerm and I think so. >_> DDD is hard for both players. I personally think its even or 55:45 DDD.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

What's changed about the MK match-up? It still feels like it's 3:7 to me

 

[Shadow Moth]

*walks in*

...

*looks around*
*clears throat*

God tier.

*humbly bows*


*leaves*

In all seriousness the MK matchup is not that bad in comparison to other peoples. At least we can knock him out of his 'nado. IMO Snake is a much worse matchup. =/

 

[GodMeowMix]

Metaknight is much tougher, you just need to stay away from the edges and stay away from MKs ****** zone.. Its like playing the final boss of a really tough video game (Ghouls n' Ghosts anyone?), ESPECIALLY if its someone like Dojo or M2K.

 

[Rawrness]

I REALLY hate MK's ftilt

 

[Pho]

Metaknight is much tougher, you just need to stay away from the edges and stay away from MKs ****** zone...

Which happens to be everywhere, since he's always in our faces like a good MK should be.

 

[Ashraf23]

Which happens to be everywhere, since he's always in our faces like a good MK should be.

Ya, that comment wasn't very helpful. MK can **** us anywhere on any stage, nothing much we can do.

 

[Power of Slash]

One more day, last opinion.

TL's not moving up.

if TL were to move up, there would have to be some huge change in which the people above him suddenly start sucking, but other folk are definately moving up. Just not. Us.

I moved off the "trust Jerm" ship. I'm sorreh D:

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

How much longer is it going to take? I'm going away for the weekend soon and I wanna know what happened before I leave.

 

[TLMSheikant]

About 40 minutes approximately. Get hyped. toon for toon tier!

 

[Silver Swordsman]

^That depends what timezone you live in.
Plus I doubt they're going to release it at midnight exactly, lol

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

so 2 pm? (acording to over here, you said '40 minutes' at exactly 1:19 pm). Thats cool then, I'm leaving in a few hours so, I think I'll be right somehow. About 15 more minutes.
I'm still with Jerm on this one. He's rising.

 

[Sosuke]

Just wait until after school on that day and it'll probably be up. ^_^

Just relax guys. Its no big deal, really.

 

[TLMSheikant]

He has better tourney results than ever. Surely that must count for something. And only 10 minutes left. Get even more hyped ppl! ^_^