SSBB Tier List v3.0- What do u think of TL's new placing?

[Shadow Moth]

lulwut. Projectile won't kill at 999% damage... I've tried it.

 

[Omnipik]

Middle tiers fair its really how you play with your character(except MK)

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

I'm not satisfied at his new position. Only moved up cause DK moved down. I won't be satisfied till he is at least in the top 10! :D C'mon guys! Rep the Toon!

 

[Kewkky]

I'm not satisfied at his new position. Only moved up cause DK moved down. I won't be satisfied till he is at least in the top 10! :D C'mon guys! Rep the Toon!

Yeah, top 10... Good luck with that.

 

[fezzmaster]

Toon link can do it he has a ton of potential. he can be an offensive god or a deffensive tank. just how we are playing him isnt paying off as much as is should. i think we need to think of all the characters we fight and have a different plan for each, be cause just project spamming isnt really enough for all the close fighters yea it works but we have to be smarter then that. we dont want to become predictable.

and we can make top 10 easy!

 

[Shadow Moth]

Toon link can do it he has a ton of potential. he can be an offensive god or a deffensive tank. just how we are playing him isnt paying off as much as is should. i think we need to think of all the characters we fight and have a different plan for each, be cause just project spamming isnt really enough for all the close fighters yea it works but we have to be smarter then that. we dont want to become predictable.

and we can make top 10 easy!

Well he can be rather defensive with all the projectiles but TL is seriously lacking some killing power. He really isn't very good at taking the offensive. He does much better at camping and rushing the opponent but if you don't retreat after you rush them you're going to get punished... no exceptions.

 

[Sosuke]

TL is good offensive if you know how to do it.

 

[fezzmaster]

I think its all on how we handle are opponent. we can be very offensive if we just stick to lagless moves like Zair into jabs or grabs and trying to stay unpredictable and by putting alot of pressure on them we can be. but all im trying to say and we will be top ten.

 

[Kewkky]

"Staying unpredictable" is way easier said than done, honestly. TL's downside is that, as soon as we hit high%, his moves are pretty much easily telegraphed: he'll be going in for the kill with a kill move whenever he gets close, so all anyone has to do is bait it with his character's tools (if he has any) and punish TL for it (or just stay evading). That's what I think TL's biggest weakness is: his predictability at higher percentages. If Brawl was just a 1-stock-per-match game this wouldn't even be a weakness since it's not as hard as it seems to catch opponents off guard every once in a while, but in a game where they might have 2 stocks to analize your killing methods and still be in the same match, this can mean that a huge comeback is on the way.

That's probably one of the reasons he's not as high yet: few killing options, meaning less effort thinking about what you guys will do to kill your opponents.

 

[fezzmaster]

Yea i guess but just look at MK he pretty much only kills with SL or Dsmash and hes at the top.

The thing that we have that ppl are starting to use more and more is that we can set you up for are kill moves. like if i get in a Zair i can try to up smash you or i can hit you with a bomb and up smash you, we should be fast enough to be able to hit you with a set up move and go for a finisher. the unpredictable part is are set up moves.

 

[Shadow Moth]

TL is good offensive if you know how to do it.

Indeed, but "an offensive god" is going too far. Like I said, it's more of an approach and retreat offense than raw power and range.

I think its all on how we handle are opponent. we can be very offensive if we just stick to lagless moves like Zair into jabs or grabs and trying to stay unpredictable and by putting alot of pressure on them we can be. but all im trying to say and we will be top ten.

Zair is our best approach in conjunction with a projectile or two but it's not much of an "offensive" move.

However Zair into other a good follow is what fill the space between the time that we're approaching and when we are retreating.

There really aren't many characters we can be totally aggressive against. Either because the risk is too high if we take a hit or because we are terribly out-ranged. Our main problem is mid-range combat. Even though we have a sword it barely brings us past the close-ranged attacks of other characters.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Yea i guess but just look at MK he pretty much only kills with SL or Dsmash and hes at the top.

What you're forgetting about MK is that his attacks are lagless. He is practically unpunishable with his kill moves (except fsmash) and his SL is quick, fast, and puts him in a good position to go for a glide attack, or if you press a right before you land you can land with no lag and go for a dsmash, that's practically unpunishable. Or you can cancel his SL by pressing b. ANd his dsmash is.....dsmash. It is practically unpunishable. It is superfast and it kills at high percents. And if you try to roll dodge you will get hit by the back slash and it kills even better than the first slash. He deserves to be at the top.

 

[fezzmaster]

ok well im sorry for the god thing and i know why MK is the best. im just saying that everything is predictible over a long enough time line. i just want to see Toon Link in the top.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Toony is perfect where he is.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Yeah, it's better if their expectations are low. Then we catch 'em off guard!

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Yeah, it's better if their expectations are low. Then we catch 'em off guard!

I like this guy, take his advice.

 

[xRikux]

Toon should be alot higher then he is now he should at least be in A Tier dont you think? right behind kirby don't you agree?

 

[Shadow Moth]

No not really ATM. We are still pretty far behind. I agree he could be at the top of B tier but right now I can't really see him as a high tier character. Maybe if we find a combo that almost guarantees an utilt (or even ftilt). Then he'll definitely be high tier.

 

[Power of Slash]

Why a guaranteed utilt though? O_o

high high percent guaranteed utilt, and I'd agree.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Because it juggles at low percents, racks up damage at medium percents, and kills at high percents.

And when I said guarantee I meant at all percents but just at high percents would be okay too. But just think if we had a way of starting every one of the opponent's stocks by juggling them to 30-40 percent.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Bair.
10bairs

 

[Power of Slash]

man Bairs get boring.

Shadow Moth has a point. Utilt -> Bair -> bair -> 10bairs. is cool.

Bair -> bair -> bair -> 10bairs isn't as cool.

 

[Shadow Moth]

man Bairs get boring.

Shadow Moth has a point. Utilt -> Bair -> bair -> 10bairs. is cool.

Bair -> bair -> bair -> 10bairs isn't as cool.

Well I was kinda thinking about something that would lead INTO utilt, not out of it.

 

[fezzmaster]

something like Zair -> Nair -> Utilte -> Bair -> bair

is what i think hes going for.

 

[Shadow Moth]

That is sorta what I'm going for (except the bairs aren't necessary) but zair to nair won't work because it pushes the opponent away. We should probably all do some research on this. If you find something it's definitely worth making a thread.

I didn't have access to my Wii at all today but I'll be able to use it all week after tonight.

 

[Power of Slash]

Well I was kinda thinking about something that would lead INTO utilt, not out of it.

I know you were talking about that,

I'm just saying once we get in that guaranteed Utilt lol

I have no idea of anything that'd lead into it that's pretty easy to land. maybe iBomb -> Utilt.

 

[Shadow Moth]

That's possible but if we land in time to do an utilt then we'll have to shield the bomb. This means the opponent has some time to recover unless we do one OoS but then we'd be ignoring the knockback we get from the bomb's explosion on our shield.

I have my Wii almost all day so I'll do some testing on this.

Edit: This discussion is being moved to the AT thread where it belongs. Please continue this discussion there

 

[Sosuke]

Utilt to Bair can be escaped if they have good DI and a move that comes out fast.

=/

But its still pretty legit. Nothing new though.

 

[TLMSheikant]

utilt bair is march 08 stuff...oh and badly spaced zair can combo to utilt if they DI up lol.

 

[Jash]

Step up your game guys.

 

[Gnes]

**** jash....

 

[Shadow Moth]

Hey man, the Bronx is hardcore.

Don't mess with NY.

 

[demonictoonlink]

NY sucks. We left ^^

 

[Sosuke]

Wow stop making useless posts.

 

[chaos11011]

I like TL low D: But oh wells....as long as he doesnt move into SS (which wont happen anytime soon )

 

[Shadow Moth]

He definitely has the potential for top tier.

We just have to find more setups for some of our more difficult techs (100% spike for example).

 

[Sosuke]

Moth little techs can't make up for game breaking character flaws.

 

[VietGeek]

Moth little techs can't make up for game breaking character flaws.

This is what I keep trying to say. TL isn't going to move up unless MK gets banned, and even then the fact that every S tier and A tier is out for some toon blood (he has barebones advantages, even, or uphill battles with all of them and barely "*****" ANYTHING).

Sasuke instead waits months to make the same statement I do so he can snag the credit because

"I leik emo girls and pregnant Hinata, and I am a DL and still play Barlw ho ho."

Josh is going to go emo again once he loses to some no name MK.

Just wait.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

VietGeek you shouldn't be so optimistic o_o

I agree though, the TL boards are slowly transforming into the Pit boards, endlessly focusing on a huge list of completely situational techs and completely ignoring his big weaknesses. If you guys need to focus on techs all the time, at least work on something that could be practical.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Fine then. Toon Links biggest weakness is probably getting the kill.

Now why don't we work on an easier way to get a kill?

>_>