SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[Fenrir VII]

Yes but Smash bros doesn't like slender characters.

No Waluigi
No Ridley


I'm sensing a trend.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Well the reason Waluigi is not in because he is never in any games unless he is in a spin off, lack of a personality, and a lack off personality. I like Waluigi. Nintendo gives him enough quirks to be somewhat memorable, but not enough to be liked by majority of the community and that is why Waluigi is not in the game.

 

[Hoots]

"Slender", "Gangly", whatever... Does anybody ever care to notice that Ridley's body shape is actually quite human-like outside of his head, neck, and obvious non-human parts? Not trying to say that makes him even or diminishes the difficulty of properly implementing him. But people seriously overstate his body shape like it would be some bizarre anomaly among the cast. Charizard's body shape is more unusual. Ivysaur as a quadruped with vines is a bit more unusual. Then there's Donkey Kong whose overall frame technically makes him the biggest character in the cast, yet he's able to look roughly Bowser's size. Point is Ridley is simply not some major exception that makes him a vastly more difficult subject to approach. He's just unique like many other non-conforming characters currently in the cast are.

As for how Ridley is supposed to be, do we need to look at other characters that are supposed to play or act a certain way yet do not? It's great when a character can achieve a near-perfect simulation of their canon self in Smash, but it doesn't always happen, and more often not it simply does not occur even where there's no reason that character can't be all they can be.

I'm all for looking at the Ridley situation as objectively as possible. I only ask others try and do the same, instead of always making Ridley out to be some sort of exceptionally complicated case. He's a complex problem, yes. He's a uniquely complex problem, NO.

My main point is not that his body shape is unusual. It's that his body shape would be difficult to implement in a Smash Bros setting, since he is designed to be very large and unencumbered by 2D limitations or gravity. Granted, the Ridley as seen in the Melee opening would work incredibly well, but Ridley has since changed drastically from Prime to Brawl to Other M.

Personally, I agree with you that Sakurai should just say "**** it" and go to any lengths of sacrificing the "simulation of their canon self" to make Ridley playable. However, you need to think like Sakurai, not a fan. That's what has me the most worried about Ridley's chances. But I really, really hope I'm wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Well the reason Waluigi is not in because he is never in any games unless he is in a spin off, lack of a personality, and a lack off personality. I like Waluigi. Nintendo gives him enough quirks to be somewhat memorable, but not enough to be liked by majority of the community and that is why Waluigi is not in the game.

Say what you will about only appearing in sports, kart racing, and party games, but lack of a personality?
He has far more personality than Mario.

 

[yoonb]

Hey guys, regarding release date leaks. Sakurai confirmed on Twitter that a spring release is not going to happen.

There seems to be a new rumor "Smash Bros." is called out in the spring of next year something, but this is misinformation. De-moto is like Germany, but such as he is not even the fact that you speak. It is common misinformation like that ... Well.

But he did say once again that it's planned for release in 2014.

And somewhere in the 2014 officially! I can not answer the question, but there is a place that incorporates in desperate every day.

Mind the terrible English, I just had google translate do everything for me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

He must be aware of the Little-Pac-Mii leak, if he knows about the Spring release controversy.

 

[yoonb]

He must be aware of the Little-Pac-Mii leak, if he knows about the Spring release controversy.

Most likely. Knowing how unpredictable Sakurai is, he could've done the ballsy move of cutting one of them from the game during development to screw with us

But the chances of that even happening is pretty close to zero. To my dissatisfaction.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Say what you will about only appearing in sports, kart racing, and party games, but lack of a personality?
He has far more personality than Mario.

OK, well I meant lack of origin instead of mentioning lack personality twice. Look at the majority of heroes in franchises, they don't have personalities for the blank face theory. Though I like Waluigi, he is not well established enough to be in SSB4.

 

[Deleted member]

Lack of origin?
.....as compared to anyone else in the Mario franchise?

I mean technically, we see Mario's, Luigi's, Peach's, Bowser's, Donkey Kong's (whether it is modern DK or Cranky remains to be seen) and Wario's origin through the Yoshi's Island series, but still.

 

[Anomilus]

Personally, I agree with you that Sakurai should just say "**** it" and go to any lengths of sacrificing the "simulation of their canon self" to make Ridley playable. However, you need to think like Sakurai, not a fan. That's what has me the most worried about Ridley's chances. But I really, really hope I'm wrong.

That's not what I said OR implied. I'm saying the pursuit of exceptionally canonical characters (think Mega Man) has not always occurred within the Smash cast, so that does allow some leniency for a character like Ridley. Reckless sacrifice of canon is an extreme and should not be pursued. There's a difference.

In any case, thinking like Sakurai and thinking with self-placed restrictions is not the same thing. I didn't conjure up my own ideals when I made my previous post. It's all based on what I've already seen of the Smash series's rosters. Mis-sized characters, characters with unique and complex parts, characters that lack a great deal of canonical references or hardly have any at all outside of their looks. Of course Sakurai does seek excellence, and he demonstrates this with his words and actions. But even Sakurai isn't above pleasing the crowd if he feels it can be done without betraying his own inner values.

As you said, we can only hope Ridley passes his tests. But if I didn't feel Ridley had that chance, I would have never joined or continue in my own crusade for playable Ridley.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Lack of origin?
.....as compared to anyone else in the Mario franchise?

I mean technically, we see Mario's, Luigi's, Peach's, Bowser's, Donkey Kong's (whether it is modern DK or Cranky remains to be seen) and Wario's origin through the Yoshi's Island series, but still.

You answered my and your own questions.

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't really answer anything.
Not being seen as a baby in the Yoshi's Island games doesn't mean there is no origin.

Toads really have no origin, yet they're considered "established enough". Bowser Jr. has an unknown origin given that the origin that he was led to believe (Peach being his mother) wasn't real. And so on and so forth.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Doesn't really answer anything.
Not being seen as a baby in the Yoshi's Island games doesn't mean there is no origin.

Toads really have no origin, yet they're considered "established enough". Bowser Jr. has an unknown origin given that the origin that he was led to believe (Peach being his mother) wasn't real. And so on and so forth.

Toads are citizens of Mushroom Kingdom. A Toad is an average joe, no backstory really needed (as there are so many). I am arguing about Waluigi, not some turtle who has played major roles in games with a paint brush. As aforementioned, Nintendo did give WL quirks, but not enough and has not appeared in any major games.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

"Ridley won't be in because he is too slender."

And to think, I thought the Ridley arguments were already all scrapped from the bottom of the barrel...

 

[BKupa666]

Whether or not Ridley is difficult to develop (I get the impression that he is, based on the Nintendo Power quote, but lolSakuraiquote), if he's not in this game, I'll be ridiculing the Smash team for its inability (or refusal, if they're toobigots) to make the character work when he has no issues whatsoever in countless mods and in SSB Crusade, all of which have far fewer resources at their disposal.

 

[majora_787]

"Ridley won't be in because he is too slender."

And to think, I thought the Ridley arguments were already all scrapped from the bottom of the barrel...

So he's... horizontally speaking... too small? This is new.

 

[Kamikazek]

Whether or not Ridley is difficult to develop (I get the impression that he is, based on the Nintendo Power quote, but lolSakuraiquote), if he's not in this game, I'll be ridiculing the Smash team for its inability (or refusal, if they're toobigots) to make the character work when he has no issues whatsoever in countless mods and in SSB Crusade, all of which have far fewer resources at their disposal.

I've seen people using mods as an explanation of how feasible Ridley is a lot lately, but I always saw it as an example of how hard it is to do Ridley. I've never seen a Ridley mod that a good chunk of people aren't repulsed by, as opposed to other mods that people are mostly O.K. with. That would imply to me that he's hard to do right.
Not that I think doing a good Ridley is impossible or anything.

 

[Deleted member]

"Toads are citizens of Mushroom Kingdom. A Toad is an average joe, no backstory really needed (as there are so many). I am arguing about Waluigi, not some turtle who has played major roles in games with a paint brush. As aforementioned, Nintendo did give WL quirks, but not enough and has not appeared in any major games."

Waluigi does have a backstory though; that's the point I was getting at. He's been secretly watching the Mario Bros. and training himself night and day to be able to compete with them. He's continuously antagonized them in the past (how has yet to be seen) and has an especially negative relationship with Luigi, who he sees as his rival (further enforced when Luigi is the one to start a fight in Mario Tennis' opening). He finally decided it was his chance to outshine the Bros. in Mario Tennis.
Not much of a backstory, but it's one just the same. Then again, Wario's backstory isn't much either; he's just an old enemy of Mario's (who also antagonized Mario before his debut in an unseen way) that wanted Mario's castle as his own. Some sources claim he's also a childhood friend and his antagonism comes from jealousy, but this is unconfirmed.

The only difference is that Wario went through severe character development as time went on and Waluigi has had less development other than desires of world domination that he rarely acts upon and more direct antagonism to Luigi than Mario.


Though this is straying heavily off-topic to the thread, so I'll just sum it up with this tie to your initial post: Waluigi isn't in Smash (which has yet to be confirmed at this time) not because of his lack of personality (which he does not actually lack and is irrelevant since personality means nothing for Smash), not because of his lack of backstory (which again, he does not actually lack, and backstory is also irrelevant to Smash), and not even because of not appearing in a platforming title (since Smash recognizes the non-platformers just as much as the platformers, which includes Waluigi being an Assist Trophy). If Waluigi is not in Smash (which at this point, he most likely won't), it will be because Sakurai sees no need for his inclusion.

 

[Arcadenik]

"Ridley won't be in because he is too slender."

And to think, I thought the Ridley arguments were already all scrapped from the bottom of the barrel...

Hahahahaha!!!! So Ridley is both too big and too slender?

 

[Stompman]

I've seen people using mods as an explanation of how feasible Ridley is a lot lately, but I always saw it as an example of how hard it is to do Ridley. I've never seen a Ridley mod that a good chunk of people aren't repulsed by, as opposed to other mods that people are mostly O.K. with. That would imply to me that he's hard to do right.
Not that I think doing a good Ridley is impossible or anything.

The difference is that those mods are done by a few people, all of whom develop these mods as a hobby, whereas Smash 4 is developed by a very large team. Sakuri has the resources necessary to make it work, so if it almost works in the mods, it will completely work in Smash Bros proper.

In summation, Ridley is too big to be contained in one thread.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

The full calendar has been revealed. There doesn't seem to be any meaning behind the games assigned to each month:

TL;DW version:

January: Wii U Party
February: Mario and Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games
March: Pikmin 3
April: the Wonderful 101
May: Super Smash Bros
June: Mario and Luigi: Dream Team
July: DK: Tropical Freeze
August: Mario Kart 8
September: Wind Waker HD
October: Pokemon X and Y
November: Animal Crossing: New Leaf
December: Super Mario 3D World

You had to burst our dreams, didn't you.

 

[Fatmanonice]

You had to burst our dreams, didn't you.

Yeah, my parents tell me the same thing every time it's my birthday.

 

[Man Li Gi]

"Toads are citizens of Mushroom Kingdom. A Toad is an average joe, no backstory really needed (as there are so many). I am arguing about Waluigi, not some turtle who has played major roles in games with a paint brush. As aforementioned, Nintendo did give WL quirks, but not enough and has not appeared in any major games."

Waluigi does have a backstory though; that's the point I was getting at. He's been secretly watching the Mario Bros. and training himself night and day to be able to compete with them. He's continuously antagonized them in the past (how has yet to be seen) and has an especially negative relationship with Luigi, who he sees as his rival (further enforced when Luigi is the one to start a fight in Mario Tennis' opening). He finally decided it was his chance to outshine the Bros. in Mario Tennis.
Not much of a backstory, but it's one just the same. Then again, Wario's backstory isn't much either; he's just an old enemy of Mario's (who also antagonized Mario before his debut in an unseen way) that wanted Mario's castle as his own. Some sources claim he's also a childhood friend and his antagonism comes from jealousy, but this is unconfirmed.

The only difference is that Wario went through severe character development as time went on and Waluigi has had less development other than desires of world domination that he rarely acts upon and more direct antagonism to Luigi than Mario.


Though this is straying heavily off-topic to the thread, so I'll just sum it up with this tie to your initial post: Waluigi isn't in Smash (which has yet to be confirmed at this time) not because of his lack of personality (which he does not actually lack and is irrelevant since personality means nothing for Smash), not because of his lack of backstory (which again, he does not actually lack, and backstory is also irrelevant to Smash), and not even because of not appearing in a platforming title (since Smash recognizes the non-platformers just as much as the platformers, which includes Waluigi being an Assist Trophy). If Waluigi is not in Smash (which at this point, he most likely won't), it will be because Sakurai sees no need for his inclusion.

Wario appeared in an Nintendo Power comics and they briefly explained why Wario hates Mario (I believe it was cowboys and rustlers-esque story). Smash is a heavily representative game. If a character is well received, has enough quirks, and represents their respective franchise well, then that makes it a valid choice. Being a an AT does not mean WL can be a full-fledged character, but it does prove Sakurai thinks that spin-off characters are interesting and can throw people off. WL at best shall stay an AT until he becomes more than Wario's random training buddy in spin-off games. My initial gives reasons why people in the community hate him while my subsequent posts give reasons why he cannot be more than an AT sir.

 

[soviet prince]

My main point is not that his body shape is unusual. It's that his body shape would be difficult to implement in a Smash Bros setting, since he is designed to be very large and unencumbered by 2D limitations or gravity. Granted, the Ridley as seen in the Melee opening would work incredibly well, but Ridley has since changed drastically from Prime to Brawl to Other M.

Personally, I agree with you that Sakurai should just say "**** it" and go to any lengths of sacrificing the "simulation of their canon self" to make Ridley playable. However, you need to think like Sakurai, not a fan. That's what has me the most worried about Ridley's chances. But I really, really hope I'm wrong.

I hope he is not so biased on characters to ignore the fan request just because he don't like the character. if thats true we may need a new developer.

so do you think a spring date is imp now?

 

[majora_787]

I've seen people using mods as an explanation of how feasible Ridley is a lot lately, but I always saw it as an example of how hard it is to do Ridley. I've never seen a Ridley mod that a good chunk of people aren't repulsed by, as opposed to other mods that people are mostly O.K. with. That would imply to me that he's hard to do right.
Not that I think doing a good Ridley is impossible or anything.

I always thought mods were a bad example since modders and professional programmers are two different things far more often than not.

 

[Anomilus]

"Ridley won't be in because he is too slender."

And to think, I thought the Ridley arguments were already all scrapped from the bottom of the barrel...

The problem is that Ridley is slender..... man.


(btw this is sort of getting off topic. )

 

[Deleted member]

Wario appeared in an Nintendo Power comics and they briefly explained why Wario hates Mario (I believe it was cowboys and rustlers-esque story).

A comic from an American magazine, a canon source does not make.

Otherwise, I could claim that Wario's Warehouse from Nintendo of Europe is accurate and that Waluigi's backstory is that he lives with Wario, he's his brother, and he's so effing stupid that he unintentionally causes Wario grief with his actions. Oh, and they're actually friends with Mario while Nintendo does propaganda to make them seem rotten to the core.

Smash is a heavily representative game. If a character is well received, has enough quirks, and represents their respective franchise well, then that makes it a valid choice.

What you might see as a valid choice =/= what Sakurai would see as a valid choice. There are characters in Smash that do not meet all three of these requirements of yours, and they won't be the only ones.

Being a an AT does not mean WL can be a full-fledged character, but it does prove Sakurai thinks that spin-off characters are interesting and can throw people off.

It doesn't mean the opposite, either. Being an Assist does not mean that Waluigi can't be a full character. It only proves that Sakurai found Waluigi interesting enough to be included in some degree other than a trophy.

WL at best shall stay an AT until he becomes more than Wario's random training buddy in spin-off games.

Again, not being in a platformer means nothing. It's all a matter of what Sakurai thinks about him. If he sees reason to include Waluigi, he'll do it. If he doesn't, he won't. Simple as that.

My initial gives reasons why people in the community hate him while my subsequent posts give reasons why he cannot be more than an AT sir.

Your initial post gives two false points (which I've already addressed) and one minor attribution that people dislike about him (as in, not at all a key factor in why people dislike him). You want to know why it is people hate him?
Because they see him as lazy and uncreative. That's why. They see him as nothing but a combined off-shoot of two other off-shoots made just to fill the arbitrary gap that would be there without him. They take a look at his name, and complain about it being "just Luigi with Wa in front of it because an upside-down L doesn't make a letter and because it is the first two letters in Wario's name" (not knowing the actual origin of Wario's and Waluigi's names and the actual genius in Waluigi's).
On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are just as many people that like Waluigi (myself included). Every character has their share of fans and haters. Waluigi is nothing special in that regard.

As for your later posts, the reasoning does not prove what you set out to prove.


Now seriously, take the discussion here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/waluigis-sycophantic-support-thread.324273/

This is not the place to debate about Waluigi, this is the Rumors and Leaks thread.

 

[Jumpman84]

A comic from an American magazine, a canon source does not make.

Otherwise, I could claim that Wario's Warehouse from Nintendo of Europe is accurate and that Waluigi's backstory is that he lives with Wario, he's his brother, and he's so effing stupid that he unintentionally causes Wario grief with his actions. Oh, and they're actually friends with Mario while Nintendo does propaganda to make them seem rotten to the core.

Holy crap... that is awesome! Now I wish that WAS canon...

We need some new rumors so we stop going off-topic, though.

 

[majora_787]

Sakurai told me Jumpman84 will be playable, but due to time constraints is going to be a Wobbuffett clone.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm used to seeing Charizard as a Pokeball.

I'm used to seeing King Dedede in the background.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm used to seeing King Dedede in the background.

I'm used to seeing Mewtwo as a playable character.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm used to seeing Mewtwo as a playable character.

I'm used to Wolf piloting a Wolfen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm used to Wolf piloting a Wolfen.

I'm used to seeing Toon Link on the Spirit Tracks stage.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm used to seeing Entei as a stage.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm used to seeing Toon Link on the Spirit Tracks stage.

I'm used to seeing Ben Affleck not being Batman.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I am used to this thread speaking about rumors and leaks.

 

[Radical Bones]

Someone on 4chan needs to make up a new rumour ASAP, this thread is loosing it.

 

[LydianAlchemist]

I'm used to playing as DeDeDe with DeDeDe flying in the background

 

[Shorts]

Whether or not Ridley is difficult to develop (I get the impression that he is, based on the Nintendo Power quote, but lolSakuraiquote)

I wouldn't go as far to say that he is difficult to develop... but moreso... Sakurai never saw it as... an option/choice/idea.

At least, that's my interpretation. Like he was like "Lolwhatno.... oh, you're serious... well.... maybe?"

 

[Berserker.]

represents

...............