SSB4: How Nintendo could turn the (competitve) beat back.

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I was under the impression there wasn't even going to be a 4th game, at least one with Sakurai involved. I think the sheer amount of complaints about Brawl were enough to make anyone at Nintendo cringe at the thought of making another installment.

Melee and Brawl were both complete best-sellers. Brawl was one of the top games in 2008, beating out GTA4, CoD:WaW, and Gears of War 2 FFS! You really think that such a repeatedly lucrative franchise is going to die out? I don't. It'd be like seeing, "OK, the last two mario games topped the charts... Now let's never make a mario game again because the head developer is moody about critique!". Ridiculous, from a business perspective.

 

[Player-1]

It's not a competitive fighter, it's a competitive community. Smash Brothers is a party game, it was not made to be a competitive game such as SF or Tekken, we MADE it into what it is, but the soul purpose of the game was for people to play with a group of friends for fun at a party, nothing more.


Good read all around OP

We can all agree it is a fighter right? Are there competitions for it? Yes, it is a competitive fighter that wasn't designed to be one.

 

[Teran]

Well it is a fighter although obivously very unique.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I count it as trolling if it incites aggravated responses.

But I'm just trolling.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand the hate on Brawl. Honestly, I consider it a worthy follow-up to Melee. The reason why people complain about Melee is because they set their bar way too high for this game.

That's the problem facing the Gran Turismo fanbase now; people expected too much out of Gran Turismo 5 and it seems as everyone and their mom is throwing a fit. Granted, in both cases, the developers/publishers are partially responsible, but fans should be taken into account as well.

 

[Spelt]

I count it as trolling if it incites aggravated responses.

Nah, that's called being honest.

 

[link2702]

I was under the impression there wasn't even going to be a 4th game, at least one with Sakurai involved. I think the sheer amount of complaints about Brawl were enough to make anyone at Nintendo cringe at the thought of making another installment.

the thing is....

we(the competitive scene) are really the only ones who complain/hate brawl with such a passion.

as sad as it sounds...we only make up a very small % of the people who play smash.



the non-competitives had almost nothing but praise for brawl, simply because they aren't playing on the same kind of level we are, even when they "attempt" to be "competitive" most of them are never ever gonna think of how falco's downthrow can be chained together at low damage, most of them are never gonna realise how terrifying a grab from the ice climbers can be, most of them are never gonna realise just how easy it is to slaughter ganon or link ect., with their lousy recoveries, most of them aren't gonna see realise just how campy brawl is, or how imbalanced it is, because most of them are just flat out not playing at high enough of a level.

about the only thing they realise is that metaknight is one WTF oped character, but honestly alot of them still think that ike and pit are as well.

 

[Fuelbi]

I agree with the op On everything. Although honestly, just make it the way melee was before. When I was 10 I had no idea that Melee was actually competitive and the fact that there were ATs present to be able to do, me and my friends still had loads of fun playing it casually (especially with the pause button oh don't get me started on that one).

The fact that the game could be made to be on the competitive level Melee still wouldn't be a bad thing for casuals if you played it as a party game because I'm living proof that Melee "did not isolate me as a casual gamer" or whatever and honestly I thunk Melee pulled off something pretty ****ing nice

There aren't many games that can actually pull off being a competitive and casual fighter like Melee did and I'm sad and frustrated at Sakurai for not realizing what Melee did

Also I find the rumored name of the new smash to be pretty amusing

SSBS

Hehe

 

[El Nino]

I was under the impression there wasn't even going to be a 4th game, at least one with Sakurai involved. I think the sheer amount of complaints about Brawl were enough to make anyone at Nintendo cringe at the thought of making another installment.

I would have thought that it depends on their profit margin, to be honest. If they think an SSB 4 would sell well, they'd probably do it. But I think every franchise reaches a peak and starts to decline afterward. SSB may have already peaked.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I would have thought that it depends on their profit margin, to be honest. If they think an SSB 4 would sell well, they'd probably do it. But I think every franchise reaches a peak and starts to decline afterward. SSB may have already peaked.

Call of Duty still makes hella money, Halo made money up til Bungie left (not sure how it's gonna do now), Smash can still make money. There's no financial reason for them to not make a new one.

 

[Lore]

We can all agree it is a fighter right? Are there competitions for it? Yes, it is a competitive fighter that wasn't designed to be one.

Actually, it's less of a competitive fighter and more of a platform action game that the community has made into something competitive.

It's still competitive no matter what you call it, though, but only because of the community.

 

[El Nino]

Call of Duty still makes hella money, Halo made money up til Bungie left (not sure how it's gonna do now), Smash can still make money. There's no financial reason for them to not make a new one.

I agree with you about the money. I was referring to quality when I talked about peak and decline.

 

[Player-1]

Actually, it's less of a competitive fighter and more of a platform action game that the community has made into something competitive.

It's still competitive no matter what you call it, though, but only because of the community.

it's definitely a fighter, I don't mind that the community made it competitive, as long as you agree that the game itself is competitive. Meaning it's a competitive fighter.

 

[Spelt]

That's a ... Skewed viewed.
With that mindset you can basically say any game is competitive just because people are playing it competitively.
I've witnessed pokemon puzzle league side tournaments before, does that mean it's competitive?
Hell no.

 

[Zook]

I think that the term 'competitive' is a lazy word that people just throw around to make games they like sound better than others. It's the antonym of 'gimmick.' I agree and acknowledge that some games are intended to have more competitive depth than others, but that doesn't make them any more competitive than, I dunno, Kirby Air Ride or something.

Nah, that's called being honest.

If I went onto the Youtube page for the official music video of "Rockstar" right now and gave my honest opinion that Chad Kroeger should be ***** to death with a tire iron, I'm pretty sure that would be considered trolling.

 

[Spelt]

If I went onto the Youtube page for the official music video of "Rockstar" right now and gave my honest opinion that Chad Kroeger should be ***** to death with a tire iron, I'm pretty sure that would be considered trolling.

But ... if it's your honest opinion... you're being honest.
I don't get it.

 

[Zook]

But ... if it's your honest opinion... you're being honest.
I don't get it.

As taken from the Smash World Forums Global Rules 7.0:

Trolling (intentionally instigating trouble or provoking others through outrageous statements) is not permitted.

It may be my opinion, but I'd be instigating trouble.

 

[Spelt]

It's almost impossible to not offend anyone.

 

[Player-1]

That's a ... Skewed viewed.
With that mindset you can basically say any game is competitive just because people are playing it competitively.
I've witnessed pokemon puzzle league side tournaments before, does that mean it's competitive?
Hell no.

can you quote me when i said just because there are tournaments for something that makes it competitive?

 

[Spelt]

...Can you quote me where I said you said that?

 

[Lythium]

can you quote me when i said just because there are tournaments for something that makes it competitive?

We can all agree it is a fighter right? Are there competitions for it? Yes, it is a competitive fighter that wasn't designed to be one.

You're welcome.

 

[Sucumbio]

lol Lythium keeping it real

I'm pretty sure I've seen more complaints about CoD being 'just another shooter' and **** like that, they're still rolling in money. Why the **** would Nintendo stop making a rather successful game just because some people complained, especially seeing how most of the complaints are from the 'competitive community', and that's what one could call a minority.

The way you're talking really makes me wonder how strong your grip on reality is. I mean, really, you think they'd have second thoughts about making it because some mother****ers complained?

However, he has one particularly deep regret: the game's accessibility level. "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

Accessibility has always been a watchword in Sakurai's design style, and there's little doubt he learned a lot from the Melee development experience. "If we want new people from this generation of gamers to come in," he concluded, "then we need it accessible, simple, and playable by anyone. You can't let yourself get preoccupied with nothing but gameplay and balance details. That's where the core of the Smash Bros. concept lies, not on doggedly keeping the game the way it was before." -Masahiro Sakurai Reflects on Super Smash Bros. Melee

Masahiro Sakurai is not the Director for the 3DS version since his company Sora Ltd. is focused on completing Kid Icarus: Uprising for launch later this year. Mr. Sakurai had also promised to not direct another Smash Brothers due to the grueling development schedule and destructive lifestyle. Masahiro Sakurai will indirectly involved as a creative consultant for HAL Laboratory. -Super Smash Brothers 3DS Preview

That doesn't necessarily mean Nintendo won't do it anyway, I'll grant that, but I find myself wondering whether or not it really will happen, since it's pretty clear Sakurai's done with these games on a high-scale level (he'll advise, but director/producers have all the real power in game development). And we know for sure that the series will never return to the technical masterpiece of Melee. Now of course I -am- interested in the 3DS game, to see how different it is from Brawl, to see if the online has been improved, etc. Who knows it may prove to be a better competitive fighter than Brawl... it's hard to say. But as for a new Smash on the next console, I am not so sure. What I think will happen is the release of something more like this, which is not even a fighter, apparently.

 

[Spelt]

last two posts =

 

[Falconv1.0]

lol Lythium keeping it real



However, he has one particularly deep regret: the game's accessibility level. "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

Accessibility has always been a watchword in Sakurai's design style, and there's little doubt he learned a lot from the Melee development experience. "If we want new people from this generation of gamers to come in," he concluded, "then we need it accessible, simple, and playable by anyone. You can't let yourself get preoccupied with nothing but gameplay and balance details. That's where the core of the Smash Bros. concept lies, not on doggedly keeping the game the way it was before." -Masahiro Sakurai Reflects on Super Smash Bros. Melee

Masahiro Sakurai is not the Director for the 3DS version since his company Sora Ltd. is focused on completing Kid Icarus: Uprising for launch later this year. Mr. Sakurai had also promised to not direct another Smash Brothers due to the grueling development schedule and destructive lifestyle. Masahiro Sakurai will indirectly involved as a creative consultant for HAL Laboratory. -Super Smash Brothers 3DS Preview

That doesn't necessarily mean Nintendo won't do it anyway, I'll grant that, but I find myself wondering whether or not it really will happen, since it's pretty clear Sakurai's done with these games on a high-scale level (he'll advise, but director/producers have all the real power in game development). And we know for sure that the series will never return to the technical masterpiece of Melee. Now of course I -am- interested in the 3DS game, to see how different it is from Brawl, to see if the online has been improved, etc. Who knows it may prove to be a better competitive fighter than Brawl... it's hard to say. But as for a new Smash on the next console, I am not so sure. What I think will happen is the release of something more like this, which is not even a fighter, apparently.

Did I say Sakurai wants to make another Smash or did I say Nintendo will have one made because of how much money it would make?

Thanks for addressing literally nothing I said though.

 

[Arbuckle]

Mr. Sakurai had also promised to not direct another Smash Brothers due to the grueling development schedule and destructive lifestyle. Masahiro Sakurai will indirectly involved as a creative consultant for HAL Laboratory.[/I] -Super Smash Brothers 3DS Preview

That doesn't necessarily mean Nintendo won't do it anyway, I'll grant that, but I find myself wondering whether or not it really will happen, since it's pretty clear Sakurai's done with these games on a high-scale level. But as for a new Smash on the next console, I am not so sure. What I think will happen is the release of something more like this, which is not even a fighter, apparently.

"Hmm... well, the Smash Bros series has been very successful, but now that Sakurai left, I dunno if we should keep trying to make money. What do you say, fellow board members?" -Nintendo executive

 

[Zankoku]

That's a ... Skewed viewed.
With that mindset you can basically say any game is competitive just because people are playing it competitively.
I've witnessed pokemon puzzle league side tournaments before, does that mean it's competitive?
Hell no.

Pokémon Puzzle League is hella competitive.

 

[Psychoace]

The Nintendo 3DS system is seen as an excellent opportunity to evolve the Super Smash Brothers series. An idea currently being tested is using augmented reality so any real world surface can be used as a fighting stage. By having the 3DS stationary or contained in a cradle, characters can fight on tables, shelves and other similar flat surfaces. By adding books and other items to the surface before the match, augmented reality can create platforms and obstacles to change up the battlefield.

Ban my bedroom.

 

[tirkaro]

holy crap, how the hell did this blog post get 4+ pages when I wasn't looking, i mean, jesus christ it's not even well written, I don't even

So yeah, without reading anything, I'm going to assume most of the complaints were about wanting a CoD-like release schedule for Smash, which was probably a stupid thing to include, but let me at least attempt to justify my stupid grade-school-level daydream like this:
Sakurai is terrible at balancing things. I'd appreciate it if he'd, or at least SOMEBODY, would get more of an opportunity to at least update the balancing once in a while. I mean, seriously, Melee is pretty terribly balanced, Brawl even worse.

Though with the newly-unveiled capabilities of the WiiU, I'd assume it would be better for everyone if these updates were delivered via balance patches. Which I would totally change the main post to, but **** that noise, I keep **** real. :afrainbo:

 

[Gamegenie222]

http://kotaku.com/5810084/this-is-the-wii-u-console-in-my-ink+stained-hands

http://kotaku.com/5810081/farewell-gamecube-the-wii-u-doesnt-play-you

So people can know.

 

[Psychoace]

The controller is almost bigger than the console lol. I hope they don't go over board with the touch screen, also no more c-stick...

I guess the thing to hope for most now controller wise would be an arcade stick or something special like they did with Monster Hunter tri. I wonder if the arcades sticks they have now would work on the Wii U's usb ports.

 

[VietGeek]

Unless they allow for Human Interface Devices via USB you would have to mod or buy an arcade stick with Wiimote connectivity.

It is really up to the developers I suppose. If the Wii U works anything like the current Wii, games and the Wii firmware are essentially independent of each-other (so if a Wii game never supported keyboard, even though the Wii does, "no cigar").

Speculation.

 

[Player-1]

...Can you quote me where I said you said that?

you obviously implied it, or else you post was irrelevant

You're welcome.

I said since the game has competitions it makes it competitive, I never said not having competitions didn't make it competitive.

 

[Spelt]

Are you high?

 

[Player-1]

if a color isn't black then it must be white right?

 

[VietGeek]

if a color isn't black then it must be white right?

If something in the origin spiral lacks yin then its concept of existence is the polarity of yin: yang. It lacks balance to cohesively realize a concrete existence from two abstract ideas independently.

obv

 

[DunnoBro]

Right regardless of the fact that Sakurai is trying his utmost to kill whatever made Smash competitive. Sure you can tweak the game options enough to create that sort of environment, but ultimately if the game developers make choices which negatively affect the competitive side of the game, it's not like you can complain because Smash was never meant to be a competitive fighter. That's my point




Nah I'm not ******** so I don't need to repeat obvious things to myself.

I really don't want this to be true, however in a recent interview sakurai said he wants unskilled, and skilled players to benefit from each other...

Please god just mean you're gonna make the handicaps better.

Though just cause it wasn't meant to be a competitive fighter, doesn't mean it isn't. Your original post was false.

 

[VietGeek]

guys i'm very very very berry sorry

it's that time of the month again

i'm a male

---------------------------
Arguing over what is "competitive" is purely semantics and perhaps a healthy dose of pretentious morality and/or elitism. I will now proceed to argue semantics and be pretentious.

obv

A game with multi-player is competitive by nature if it pits two or more players together in determining winner(s) and loser(s) out of the group of participants.

A game however may not be conductive to skill ("uncompetitive") if it has factors such as random or overpowered elements (any element of the game) - characters, game engine faults (glitches, bad implementation), items/weapons, etc.

A game not conductive to skill is more likely to not foster a community that intends for it to be used as a competitive medium. In short, non-skill-based games are less likely to be used for competition.

The reason why so many newer traditional fighting games boast balance and listen to their existing fanbase is because the arcade culture assumes a competitive spirit, meaning games fostering skill above all else attracts a larger following. This means more revenue for the arcade owners and in turn the companies involved in production and distribution of the game titles.


This is where the obvious difference between other games and Smash Bros. comes in:

The traditional fighting game developers listen to the fans as their well-being is ultimately on the line (do note some of these companies are purely arcade companies and are small independents).

Keeping the existing fanbase to continue to put out (obv) coins into the machines and molest those Sanwa/Seimitsu parts down to the cabinet demands keeping the competitive field interesting while still "conductive to skill" while also addressing "new blood" accessibility. SFIV's Super notorious comeback system, Arcana Heart 3's Simple Mode and BlazBlue's Beginner Mode all address this: note Capcom chose to embed certain "uncompetitive" elements into the game while the latter two simplify the game in order to teach the player basics and pace of the game title.

Nintendo is more selective in fan-feedback: the business model is different. Smash is a console-only game and the console culture is very different from arcade culture (I wonder why >_>). In reality, they already know they have a relative formula for financial success in the game, they focus on a direction that tilts favoritism to prospective buyers rather than existing ones which are already inclined to buy due to brand loyalty.

It is also a matter of developer mentality as we know very well from Sakurai's openness about expressing his game-making philosophy. However the decisions from "higher-up" naturally influence the any game's development for the sake of producing revenue.

uhh smash bros sucks

i mean really

how will i fix my c-stick for melee 20 years later (btw working on guiness record for virginity) when all my smash huggles games become SSBM Debug Mode Item Spawn Level 8?

let's hack up everything because nintendo quality control is derp so why is there such a double standard for fan-mod when the entirety of the community is playing a game against its intent by the developers already? give me my Melee- Perfect Control video already pl0x.

oh yeah

nintendo fans

笑笑笑笑笑笑笑笑笑笑笑笑

don't worry i'm one too

my life dream is to construct a chinese character for weeaboo out of radicals of pre-existing characters relating to shame, perversion, outcast, materialism, ground, monster, and window blinds.

then create one for veeaboo

which would simply be a character comprised of certain radicals of the characters creating vietnam and germanic language rules

really guys

we gotta stick together and continue playing pokemon on our psps

RNGing in Emerald is such a pain. Don't forget to disable frame skip lol.

obv

 

[Lythium]

VietGeek, marry me.

Obv.

 

[Teran]

Though just cause it wasn't meant to be a competitive fighter, doesn't mean it isn't. Your original post was false.

No, no it was not.You just don't like the connotations but really it doesn't actually make a difference, it's just that when a new Smash comes out, you can't expect it to have competitive merit as part of the devs' priorities.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I honestly am glad that Sakurai is directing Smash once again. God knows how crappy the next game would have turned out if it was directed by someone else.