Squirtle vs. MK?

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Yea There Is Actually A Lot Of Debate From What I've Heard About Squirtle V. Mk With Some Of The Higher Members ^^
Typh I Think Did About Even Against M2k Yesterday With Squirtle Too, Squirtle Just Has Some Pretty Amazing Stuff.

Discuss Please!

 

[xDD-Master]

50 / 50 I would say, slight adventage on MK because of possible gimping which doesnt happen often in Pro-level gaming, so maybe 51:49 MK xD.

 

[typh]

squirtle does REALLY REALLY good against metaknight, like seriously amazing

of course it's not more than even but that's amazing considering everyone else is like 20-80

 

[Kamikaze*]

60:40 MK. Maybe 55:45 What you witnessed the other day was M2K's lack of match-up experience vs Pokemon Trainer

 

[Magik0722]

Squirtle does Okay, but its really annoying that MK outranges every, its especially hard to get past that wall of fairs

 

[typh]

60:40 MK. Maybe 55:45 What you witnessed the other day was M2K's lack of match-up experience vs Pokemon Trainer

i go about even/beat every single metaknight in socal with squirtle, including DSF and tyrant, i'm not bragging because obviously i (sometimes) lose with charizard and ivysaur, but i think i have enough experience with this matchup to say that it's even, unless not one metaknight here has squirtle experience.

might just be me though.

squirtle can punish any of metaknight's attack by jumping out of his shield, early kills with dthrow, uair beats dair sometimes (and he can't break out of low percent uair combos), your jab beats his ftilt, etc etc etc

 

[hundreds of utilts]

I love this MU, especially since most MK's are unprepared for it. the speed of Squirtle's jab keeps up with anything metaknight has.

55-45 mk i'd say

 

[Zigsta]

This is a pretty even matchup, but you have to play very cautious. I find that against MK I tend to be aggressive in spurts: I'll play defensively until I see an opening and then fight agressively for a bit. While it's a fairly even matchup, you can't afford to be careless at any time; since Squirtle is so light, MK can KO him with dsmashes easily. Odds are if you're a good Squirtle, though, you're used to being rather careful with Squirtle. That said, Squirtle is definitely the Pokemon I usually feel most comfortable with against MK.

 

[Kamikaze*]

i go about even/beat every single metaknight in socal with squirtle, including DSF and tyrant, i'm not bragging because obviously i (sometimes) lose with charizard and ivysaur, but i think i have enough experience with this matchup to say that it's even, unless not one metaknight here has squirtle experience.

might just be me though.

squirtle can punish any of metaknight's attack by jumping out of his shield, early kills with dthrow, uair beats dair sometimes (and he can't break out of low percent uair combos), your jab beats his ftilt, etc etc etc

Yeah, but MK overall has much better range.

And I believe the bolded is probably true. How many Pokemon trainer mains actually have the balls to go to a tourney? lol

So of course people would lack the experience.

 

[typh]

me pretty much every weekend for a year

i see the same people every weekend

they have experience.

 

[Steeler]

i'm inclined to say 40:60 because of how easy it is for mk to gimp your average recovery. on stage it's like even.

typh how do you get around campy mks

 

[Toby.]

Metaknight outranges all of squirtles moves, with attacks that are also faster than all our ground moves except for jab. Since his sword has laser priority we can never clank with him on the ground either.

If you can somehow get him off the ground and above you then its not so bad.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

60:40 MK. Maybe 55:45 What you witnessed the other day was M2K's lack of match-up experience vs Pokemon Trainer

Good point, M2K is known for having problems when he doesn't know the matchup.

 

[Kage Me]

How many Pokemon trainer mains actually have the balls to go to a tourney? lol

*waves*

Winning tourneys, on the other hand....

 

[Toby.]

And I believe the bolded is probably true. How many Pokemon trainer mains actually have the balls to go to a tourney? lol

Whats a tournament?

In Australia we just dress up as our characters and have barbeques whilst throwing out character related catch phrases. Sometimes I dress my pet kangaroo up as a Charizard as well.

We certainly don't have any 'tournaments'.

 

[Vermy]

Whats a tournament?

In Australia we just dress up as our characters and have barbeques whilst throwing out character related catch phrases. Sometimes I dress my pet kangaroo up as a Charizard as well.

We certainly don't have any 'tournaments'.

i love you Toby <3
^_^

I want a wombat. If a car hits one, then it'll probably be trashed and the wombat will walk away, and its bite is second only to the hippopotamus.

i would name him Ivysaur and paint him green and strap a potplant on his back. Then we can make your kangaroo and my womabat be friends! XD


@Kamikaze: Jokes aside, Reflex may be the driving force behind PT's rise in the tier list, but 80% of the regular posters in PT boards attend tournaments and use PT. See the "Hall of Fame" thread for proof. I vs many people who attend my area's tournaments on a regular basis, and after months of playing my PT, they STILL struggle vs it. PT isnt as "bad" as people claim. He just lacks people giving him enough attention to get recognized as a solid character.

now to add my $0.02 about MK vs Squirtle...

This game is still young. Metaknight seems to be made "perfect" at this stage. He will eventually have a bad matchup. It might only be by a little, but it'll happen. It took years for Melee to have a final version of their tier list and it'll be the same for Brawl. With Wario, Diddy and Snake at his heels, MK might stay at the top, but he'll have a counter eventually. Squirtle could be it, as his metagame develops, but at this stage i'd say its a 40-60 in MKs favour. Typh and Reflex are just amazing, so they can pull off some awesome stuff, even vs M2K. ^_^

 

[T-block]

I would believe 55-45 MK's favour. Squirtle can never be considered a counter to MK though, since if it turns out that way, MK can just camp Squirtle until he's fatigued.

PT does get tourney rep... the last two I went to had another PT there. 2/27 or so isn't bad.

 

[DemonFart]

PT doesn't get as much tourney rep as other characters though, and by other characters I mean the good ones.

Though yeah, I feel most comfortable vs MK as Squirtle.
I believe MK has the advantage...

Though when Squirtle puts on the shades....

 

[Adriel]

Squartle outspeeds meta on the ground with his jab(although meta outranges us a lot), has superior aerial movement(although slower aerials), and not that much a problem with KO'ing meta with d-throw and up-smash.

I'm sure that Charizard can do almost if not just as well as Squartle just 'cause of grab, flamethrower to stop approaches, and rock smash to rack up brokn damage. When coming back to the stage, reverse rock smash or reverse flamethrower to turn yourself around and b-air meta away, or just use flamethrower/rock smash facing meta to stop him.

 

[IronYoshiWarrior]

I agree with him ^^
I feel that Charizard does better than Squirtle against MK even to the point where Charizard is even with MK. (IMO anyway) Though Squirtle does pretty good against MK I think Charizard is better.

 

[Vermy]

Charizard gets juggled something chronic.
At high level of play, MK can **** zard. Theoretically, is even.
in practice its a whole other ball game.

 

[Kingsmash-a-lot]

I would definitely give it to MK for the simple fact of his multi-jumps. If MK and squirtle battling off board, which will always happen because of MK's game, squirtle is out matched even with his quick air game.

 

[Collective of Bears]

LOL @ Charizard being even with MK.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Charizard does do great against MK, but its not even.
Its like 45:55 MK AT BEST for Charizard(IMO) . Everyone is repping on what Squirtle can do, but not Charizard T.T.

Squirtle can harass MK offstage, Its just that MK can recover unlike Squirtle <.<.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

I don't mean to be a downer, but I don't think any pokemon goes as high as 50:50 with MK.

But that's just my thoughts, I still don't have as much experience as Typh or Reflex. I do think Squirtle does the best out of them, with Charizard far second with Ivy close behind.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I think this is pretty close to 50-50. 55-45 MK at worst

 

[Steeler]

imo squirtle is 40:60 and charizard 35:65 or 40:60. ivysaur doesn't matter. when it comes down to it, just let the MKs figure out what kind of playstyle works the best against squirtle and charizard, and we'll be right there as a "doesn't get ***** that hard by MK" matchup.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I would believe 55-45 MK's favour. Squirtle can never be considered a counter to MK though, since if it turns out that way, MK can just camp Squirtle until he's fatigued.

Well really nobody's a counter to MK, there's just a few who are theoretically even with him.

 

[shinyspoon42]

I hate Metaknight, he gimps ivysaur way too well. Whoever said charizard beats MK needs to have a reality check, because zard gets the crap juggled out of him. Squirtle can do well, but ultimately MK can outrange and outspeed all of squirtles moves besides jab, which you won't get close enough to use anyway. The great PTs have repped PT and are doing great, but ultimately this is just another matchup in MKs favor.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

Lol Squirtle and MK have about equal attack speed but in everything else MK ***** Squirtle hard.

MK has more range, MK has nado, MK obviously ***** Squirtle offstage, and MK can kill. Also MK has no stamina and does not have to switch.

Seriously but I don't understand why Squirtle would come close to MK.
Is there even one thing that Squirtle actually can do better?

 

[T-block]

Squirtle is significantly cuter.

But really, Squirtle is probably faster than MK when it comes to attack speed.

 

[DemonFart]

Squirtle is significantly cuter.

But really, Squirtle is probably faster than MK when it comes to attack speed.

By a long shot.

And eh, I don't really know about that, actually yeah it's probably true. MK's pretty frickin' quick though.

 

[Adriel]

Squartle is faster than MK on the ground, by 2 frames, just 'cause of his jab.

 

[Steeler]

you can do stuff like interrupt mk's looking for trip -> grab with repeated dtilts by just jabbing them. but i think squirtle struggles against campy mks that depend on spacing.

 

[Toby.]

overall metaknight is faster. the only thing we have that is quicker than him is jab, wheras if you look at both characters as a whole its pretty obvious that MK has the speed advantage in most situations.

Also, given that he can begin attacking us with ftilt or dtilt before we can start hitting with jab, even that speed advantage isn't so crash hot.

 

[9Kplus1]

Do what I do when I'm up against a campy MK: Switch to ivy.

but really, I'd just go with 60:40 in MK's favor for two simple reasons: fatigue and recovery. mk can easily camp until we're fatigued and pretty much murders squirtle offstage. squirtle's ground game is nice against mk and tbh, that's where I stay most of the time.

 

[Toby.]

Do what I do when I'm up against a campy MK: Switch to ivy.

I hope this was a joke.

Ivysaur gets murdered by MK

 

[9Kplus1]

I hope this was a joke.

Ivysaur gets murdered by MK

I hope that wasn't a joke. MK falls to SubSeed Ivysaur, though... Oh wait, wrong game .

Surely enough, Ivy is (sadly) ***** by MK.

 

[Falconv1.0]

From what I can see, MK vs Squirtle is like MK vs Kirby except Squirtle is cooler and fatigue makes his killing options no fun. Ivysaur is garbage vs MK, I don't know balls about Zard vs MK, please edumacate me.

 

[Steeler]

zard does as well as squirtle if you stay grounded and take advantage of your spacing and OoS options imo