PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Ivysaur suffers more than normal if I remember correctly.
-
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Squirtle Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
T-block
B2B TST
Not for ground releases, which is what we're talking about.
Air releases are a whole different story though.
Air releases are a whole different story though.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Thats what Im talking about.
;0
;0
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Oh okay thanks, I understand now.
I think Bowser is 20, not 10. Its only a 20 frames advantage on ness/lucas. He would have horrific grab releases on everyone with a 20 frame advantage. Also DKs air release is still 30 frames I think.
T-block
B2B TST
er...yeah that was a typo sorry >_<
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I would LOVE having guaranteed Klaw and dtilt on the entire cast.
Buuda
Smash Apprentice
So, guys. This is going to sound really silly, but I kinda ran into something new. I was playing someone (I was Squirtle), and as he started to come up off the edge of the stage, I hit him with the corner of Squirtle's toes in F-air, and it was a semi-spike, and he didn't hit the stage. Maybe it was just total garbage DI? That's my guess, but I figured I'd bring it up anyhow.
T-block
B2B TST
Yeah I'm pretty sure you can achieve a downward trajectory with really bad DI off f-air. With how much we use that move, if it were a hitbox property I'm sure we would have discovered it by now.
crynts
Smash Cadet
I think I've discovered a new tech the other day with squirtle while messing around with his shell shift. As squirtle shell shifted, he did a true hydroplane while pivoting immediately after. Now, I think this is already possible, but I found an easier way to do it on accident.
What you need to do is hold the attack button beforehand (I set it to Z). Then, do a shell shift and press diagonally backwards up or down at the corner on the C-stick (it was set to smashes,) near the end of the shell shift. If you continue to hold the control stick in the way you were moving, then squirtle ends up doing a true hydroplane with an immediate pivot, allowing you to do any sort of moves while sliding on the ground facing towards your direction of movement.
In short, hold attack, move control stick right, tap control stick left, c-stick top/down left while shell shifting. This has a much more lenient timing compared to the regular pivoted hydroplane where the control stick needs to change directions 4 times with very strict timing.
There are many possible follow ups to this pivoted true hydroplane, though most don't seem very useful. The most useful follow up I can think of is a grab. Since the grab initiates much later than the hydrograb, it is a good mix up if your opponent expects a shell shifted Usmash since they would be sheilding. A jab could also work well though the only advantage would be a more controllable timing compared to the hydrojab.
Related things:
You can start holding the attack button during the shell shift before pressing the c-stick if you are quick enough.
All of the following assume the attack button being held the whole time.
Releasing the control stick back to neutral right after pressing the c-stick results in a regular true hydroplane (though easier to time imo)
Pressing the c-stick early does nothing. Tapping it too far towards the backwards horizontal charges a longest possible backwards or forwards shell shifted fsmash. I don't know what determines the direction yet besides maybe different timing.
Tapping the c-stick diagonally backwards during a dash begins a delayed shell shift. Spamming the c-stick while holding the control stick causes squirtle to continually do a delayed shellshift during the dash.
Tapping the c-stick up or down during a dash turns it into a walk. Doing the same thing while walking changes it into a dash unless the control stick is only slightly tilted. In that case, squirtle only shakes
I know all of these have already been discovered, but I don't think anyone has posted yet about this method, which is much easier to do. Also, it should be possible to do this with all the characters, it just won't give them any distance.
What you need to do is hold the attack button beforehand (I set it to Z). Then, do a shell shift and press diagonally backwards up or down at the corner on the C-stick (it was set to smashes,) near the end of the shell shift. If you continue to hold the control stick in the way you were moving, then squirtle ends up doing a true hydroplane with an immediate pivot, allowing you to do any sort of moves while sliding on the ground facing towards your direction of movement.
In short, hold attack, move control stick right, tap control stick left, c-stick top/down left while shell shifting. This has a much more lenient timing compared to the regular pivoted hydroplane where the control stick needs to change directions 4 times with very strict timing.
There are many possible follow ups to this pivoted true hydroplane, though most don't seem very useful. The most useful follow up I can think of is a grab. Since the grab initiates much later than the hydrograb, it is a good mix up if your opponent expects a shell shifted Usmash since they would be sheilding. A jab could also work well though the only advantage would be a more controllable timing compared to the hydrojab.
Related things:
You can start holding the attack button during the shell shift before pressing the c-stick if you are quick enough.
All of the following assume the attack button being held the whole time.
Releasing the control stick back to neutral right after pressing the c-stick results in a regular true hydroplane (though easier to time imo)
Pressing the c-stick early does nothing. Tapping it too far towards the backwards horizontal charges a longest possible backwards or forwards shell shifted fsmash. I don't know what determines the direction yet besides maybe different timing.
Tapping the c-stick diagonally backwards during a dash begins a delayed shell shift. Spamming the c-stick while holding the control stick causes squirtle to continually do a delayed shellshift during the dash.
Tapping the c-stick up or down during a dash turns it into a walk. Doing the same thing while walking changes it into a dash unless the control stick is only slightly tilted. In that case, squirtle only shakes
I know all of these have already been discovered, but I don't think anyone has posted yet about this method, which is much easier to do. Also, it should be possible to do this with all the characters, it just won't give them any distance.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Might test this later. Other people need to.
Hitbubble stuff--
Can anyone make a video of the hitbox of a hydrojab and hydrograb? I'd like to be sure of where I can expect it to hit.
Can anyone make a video of the hitbox of a hydrojab and hydrograb? I'd like to be sure of where I can expect it to hit.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Good write up, this is the first time I have learned something new from the PT boards in a year.I think I've discovered a new tech the other day with squirtle while messing around with his shell shift. As squirtle shell shifted, he did a true hydroplane while pivoting immediately after. Now, I think this is already possible, but I found an easier way to do it on accident.
What you need to do is hold the attack button beforehand (I set it to Z). Then, do a shell shift and press diagonally backwards up or down at the corner on the C-stick (it was set to smashes,) near the end of the shell shift. If you continue to hold the control stick in the way you were moving, then squirtle ends up doing a true hydroplane with an immediate pivot, allowing you to do any sort of moves while sliding on the ground facing towards your direction of movement.
In short, hold attack, move control stick right, tap control stick left, c-stick top/down left while shell shifting. This has a much more lenient timing compared to the regular pivoted hydroplane where the control stick needs to change directions 4 times with very strict timing.
There are many possible follow ups to this pivoted true hydroplane, though most don't seem very useful. The most useful follow up I can think of is a grab. Since the grab initiates much later than the hydrograb, it is a good mix up if your opponent expects a shell shifted Usmash since they would be sheilding. A jab could also work well though the only advantage would be a more controllable timing compared to the hydrojab.
Related things:
You can start holding the attack button during the shell shift before pressing the c-stick if you are quick enough.
All of the following assume the attack button being held the whole time.
Releasing the control stick back to neutral right after pressing the c-stick results in a regular true hydroplane (though easier to time imo)
Pressing the c-stick early does nothing. Tapping it too far towards the backwards horizontal charges a longest possible backwards or forwards shell shifted fsmash. I don't know what determines the direction yet besides maybe different timing.
Tapping the c-stick diagonally backwards during a dash begins a delayed shell shift. Spamming the c-stick while holding the control stick causes squirtle to continually do a delayed shellshift during the dash.
Tapping the c-stick up or down during a dash turns it into a walk. Doing the same thing while walking changes it into a dash unless the control stick is only slightly tilted. In that case, squirtle only shakes
I know all of these have already been discovered, but I don't think anyone has posted yet about this method, which is much easier to do. Also, it should be possible to do this with all the characters, it just won't give them any distance.
I find this new method awkward for me, since I am so used to True Hydroplaning via the double pivot. Their are lots of cool things you can do via Tru Hydroplane, but one clear advantage of your method of True HP is it is easier to HP an Uptilt. To me that is really relevant because of Up Tilts amazing hitbox, your are pretty safe since it is really quick and covers your whole body in a hit box.
So what I am saying is tHP Uptilt leads to goodness you either hit them or clanks hits, and if you clank his you can land a grab or jab.
yay!
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Aren't Hydrograb and jab the same but you're moving while the hitboxes come out?
crynts
Smash Cadet
They're the same except one is a grab hitbox as opposed to a jab hitbox.
(I think that's what you're asking anyways, I don't know what is being compared exactly >.<)
(I think that's what you're asking anyways, I don't know what is being compared exactly >.<)
I believe the jab only hits for a single frame, and the grab works for three.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
That would make sense since Hydrograb is really hard to hit. Like you practiacally have to shell shift right infront of them. This useful. It wouldn't be any different if you did a grab out of a true hydroplane would it? (6 frames)
@TKbreezy
Follow me on Twitter!
hydrograb is easy to hit if they are advancing
*fox dash attacks*
you run backwards out of his range -> pivot -> hydograb -> slide to ledge
Pretty much how it happens for me...people overextend and I get'em!
*fox dash attacks*
you run backwards out of his range -> pivot -> hydograb -> slide to ledge
Pretty much how it happens for me...people overextend and I get'em!
Yeah, that should be reasonable, so long as you're quick about it.
I don't think we have an exact number, but there should be a universal number of vulnerable frames for the trip, which we can subtract the cooldown of Jab 2 from to get the number.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Amazing avatar Blazing Katakiri
Jab1-2 to uptilt does kinda work. But only its kind of hard to walk forward enough to get character that DI'd away. Seems like basically anyone that would be in grab range would be close enough to walk into uptilt before they can roll away/getup.
This is my new favorite low percent follow up to jabs.
Why can't I find a super cool video of Squirtle going under Smashville?
This is my new favorite low percent follow up to jabs.
Why can't I find a super cool video of Squirtle going under Smashville?
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Can squirtle go under Smashville by himself?
Yea, it didn't personally occur to me until yesterday (so I made a video). But if you baton pass for the extra double jump you can just barely make it under the stage. I wish I could do that with ivysaur. LEDGEHOG THAT!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1uYX3pAtf4
I was hoping there was like a guide for going under lylat and others, cuz I can't get it to work anywhere else. Where is the Baton Pass guide? Like all the places I can do it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1uYX3pAtf4
I was hoping there was like a guide for going under lylat and others, cuz I can't get it to work anywhere else. Where is the Baton Pass guide? Like all the places I can do it?
Ingoro
Smash Ace
I've got another idea in mind, I'll give it a shot tonight.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Ill try and dig it up for you tesh but it was a little bit back that we discussed zero-switching so hopefully I can find it
Xyless
Smash Master
From the looks of it (just looking at startup frames, not 100% sure for any of this), utilt and ftilt should work after jab2, though utilt's range probably will make it only likely to hit with large characters. MAYBE uair too, but I'm forgetting how many frames it takes to jump.
...if grab is guaranteed, then that could open up dash attack and dtilt as well.
...if grab is guaranteed, then that could open up dash attack and dtilt as well.
I'm assuming you're talking about if you get the trip from the second jab.
Squirtle appears to have the worst jab cancel in the game. If you do it perfectly, people can still use fast tilts or grab you before you can shield or jab again.
Squirtle appears to have the worst jab cancel in the game. If you do it perfectly, people can still use fast tilts or grab you before you can shield or jab again.
Xyless
Smash Master
Ah, I wasn't sure about jab canceling.
Then my post is moot.
Then my post is moot.
Xyless
Smash Master
It trips 20% of the time, FYI.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Between what percents?
CoonTail
Smash Lord
what do you mean between what percents....he's saying it has an overall 20% chance of tripping
Xyless
Smash Master
Yeah, jab2 has a 20% chance (1/5 chance) to trip on hit.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Hm, I thought the percent of a character affected when they could trip. So you could trip with jab 2 at 300%?
Xyless
Smash Master
Yep !
CoonTail
Smash Lord
lol hence 20% trip rate overall
Apparently, without DI being applied, F-Air sends people at a 45-degree angle and B-Air more-or-less sends people straight out. As a result, with people defaulting to "up-left" or "up-right" for DI, B-Air can sometimes be more effective if your aim is to KO sideways rather than upward. It's also good for gimps if they have bad DI, perhaps due to a ledgehop forward or something similar.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
I have noticed this before luis....B-air has deff done a pretty good job of getting gimps over f-air because of that exact angle it sends them out on.
Going back to the whole guide you wrote on Squirtle's wall cling and I toyed around with it.
B-air to wall cling gives you a bit of time to get a proper read and in certain matchups like Luigi and Wolf I noticed it's a great option to read the player's reaction after the b-air and being able to land the proper option to finish gimping the recovery option they choose.