Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

So, can anyone tell me how sunglasses easter egg works?
I'm a charizard main, squirtle second (in development), and i feel like sunglasses would step up my game alot :D

 

[traffic.]

up-taunt, hit b when he hits the ground. they break once he you get hit.

 

[Translucent]

Am I the only person who finds that using water gun to space or attack isn't useful when fully charged? It's a ton of lag if missed...

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yeah, I pretty much never charge water gun because of that. I only charge it as an edgeguard, but that doesn't work particularly well, so I go for bubble instead.

Also, I'll be uploading some more videos of my Squirtle later tonight. They aren't as good as my other videos, but they're something. You'll notice I suicided a few times with withdraw: The lesson to be taken from this isn't that you can suicide easily, but that it's a bad idea to talk about Majora's Mask while playing. I've done a lot of messing with withdraw suicides, and if you're paying attention, it's pretty easy to stop yourself from dying. Also, I'm trying to get the hang of using SH withdraw as an edgeguard, since you can recover with DJ Waterfall. I haven't worked it out yet, though.

EDIT: Watching the videos, I can see plenty of times when I should have tilted instead of smashed, WGed instead of Withdrawed, etc. Oh, and accidentally withdrawing instead of using watergun is a bad idea. Especially when you don't notice you've done it until after you die.

 

[Translucent]

Lol, okay robo. I can't wait to see those videos. I also suicide with side b a lot because I don't double jump out of it in time to waterfall back.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

The reason I mentioned it is because I rarely suicide with sideB. There are a few games in there were it happens a bunch, though, and those are the reasons for it.

While I fixed the video, the audio seems to slowly get out of sync as the video goes on. I'll have to mess with the settings and fix that too.

EDIT: One other mistake is using Uair too much out of Withdraw. While it works great for hitting Fox at high percents, it's pretty bad at low percents. I should be going for a Dair or Nair instead.

 

[Translucent]

I just need to have a lot more practice with Squirtle to have full control over him, which is super important to me because of his amazing mobility.
I can't wait to see some squirtle vs spacies. Up tilt can do wonders at lower percents.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Alright, I'll remember that for next time I play them. I'll hopefully have more videos next week. I'm try to get as much time in as possible before this semester gets busy. 15 credit hours + research + other stuff means I get busy quickly.

Since I'm probably going to be asleep or watching Buffy when the video finishes uploading in 65 minutes, here's a link to it now:http://youtu.be/G_CVkPL57hA

 

[Translucent]

Ok, thanks man. Good luck with all of the work you need to get done.

 

[bubbaking]

Am I the only person who finds that using water gun to space or attack isn't useful when fully charged? It's a ton of lag if missed...

Yeah, I've noticed that WG has a bit more limited use when it's fully charged, but I've still found the occasional use for it. I believe it it can be aimed after starting the attack, so it can be used to cover a semi-wide area, which could potentially be useful for edgeguarding against opponents who have multiple decent options to choose from and for 'walling' out chars in certain situations on-stage.

I also find fully-charged WG to be decent against planking Jiggs.

 

[Translucent]

I feel it could be useful against people at ledge or off stage sometimes. But I think that you always need to short hop or shoot water gun off a platform because it's angle is down when it begins.

 

[sa1vy]

Nobody's posted in two days... Where is everyone? If we want to keep our most post character position, we gotta do better than that.

Slightly more on topic: what's your guys' favorite thing to do with squirtle? (besides simply with awesome with shades on ofc.)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

My new favorite thing to do is WG > Bubble > Usmash/Dthrow/some other KO. It just feels so awesome. Also, withdraw is just insanely fun to use in general. Especially turnaround withdraws at the edge of the stage.

 

[sa1vy]

Who votes to change this discussion thread name to "Project Mutant Ninja Squirtles" or something along those lines? And then we petition the pmbr to get more textures, preferably ones that look like ninjas

 

[MonkUnit]

Nobody's posted in two days... Where is everyone?

I was at APEX and got to get bodied a few times by Stricnyne's Wolf.

 

[Tero.]

How come everyone thinks squirtle is like ... really really bad?

 

[traffic.]

the same reason people think Pit is S tier, not nearly enough people in each area that play a diverse cast

 

[stingers]

How come everyone thinks squirtle is like ... really really bad?

speaking from personal experience, he's pretty difficult to use. early on, those are the characters people call bad.

 

[traffic.]

yeah if people dont give up after the first few hours of side-b being a certain doom, he gets super janky super quick.

 

[bubbaking]

It's just something you have to get accustomed to. As long as you play safe, Squirtle is really good. Use his tail invincibility, use his armor, use his speed, mobility and gimping potential. Squirtle is one of the chars whom I will say has a very usable tool in each of his moves. I think a lot of people are saying Squirt is bad because they don't know how to utilize all of his tools, similar to Pika in vBrawl.

what's your guys' favorite thing to do with squirtle? (besides simply with awesome with shades on ofc.)

I really like Withdraw, both to cause TC situations and to follow-up on them. At mid %'s, the opponent is knocked straight to the ground and it's really hard for him to react fast enough to tech, so one can perform a fairly easy 'dial combo' using repeated Withdraws. I just came back from a P:M tournament yesterday and I was so satisfied when I pulled off Withdraw > Withdraw > Withdraw > offstage Withdraw > fair > recover.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Did that get recorded?

I've been watching my use of Withdraw a bit, and I feel like I could definitely get better with it. I rarely suicide, and can perform some cool mixups, but sometimes I'm stupid with it and just runs straight at them. I especially need to work on using an aerial out of it. I use Uair way too often, where Dair or Nair would be a lot better.

Like stingers said, the reason people think Squirtle is bad is because he's hard to control. If you watch a lot of early videos, they involve squirtles suiciding with his sideB or other moves a lot, and thinking he's terrible because of that. People also used to suicide with Fox's sideB a lot, and look at how good he is now. Squirle won't get that good, but once you get the hang of controlling him, he can do some pretty cool stuff. If you watch some of my videos, you'll see I have more control of Squirtle than a lot of people who don't main squirtle. Don't get me wrong, I'm a worse player than them, but my Squirtle does some really cool stuff like turnaround withdraws at the very very edge of the stage.

 

[bubbaking]

It was on my own set-up, which didn't get any matches recorded unfortunately. I know GHNeko was recording matches on his set-up, and I think I played a bit of Squirtle on it, so maybe there'll be something up soon.

 

[traffic.]

Yeah the withdraw chain across the stage and then nailing the off-stage chase withdraw into nair or fair is easily recovered from and it has such a delicious downward trajectory for you opponent they really cant survive it at all. if they are sticking to the ground with tech you can reverse your withdraws, i've gotten 3-5 WD combos on the spot a few times, also works with DBZ aerial battles if they DI below and behind you, 2-3 withdraw chains flying out of the air is very rewarding. just look out for that shifty hop.

 

[Translucent]

Withdraw is too good. I also really love that they have added that you can up b out of withdraw to get a very powerful move too. It also helps with recovering when using side-b.

 

[traffic.]

aqua jet is a terrible thing off-stage unless you are just about to miss the ledge with your recovery withdraw. i find i accidently aqua jet instead of b-cancelling withdraw and kill myself WAY too much.

 

[Translucent]

I really like using it as a mix-up because it's sometimes difficult to punish, especially if they don't see it coming. You can also use it to jump and pop on over people charging smashes or trying to attack you by the ledge.

 

[bubbaking]

The fact that it can edge cancel makes Aqua Jet a very viable recovery option if there are plats nearby.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Aqua Jet is a great recovery. You can use it to pretty easily jump over the opponent, edge cancel, etc. Or, make them think you're going for a waterfall and aqua jet instead. It just gives his recovery a lot of flexibility.

It's funny that you accidentally kill yourself with aqua jet instead of cancelling, because I often accidentally kill myself by cancelling instead of aqua jet.

I'm trying to get good at using aqua jet as soon as you can out of withdraw.

 

[bubbaking]

Don't forget that Aqua Jet can sweetspot the ledge.

Has anyone else run into a weird situation where Squirtle Aqua Jets immediately out of Withdraw but he goes plummeting downwards instead of getting his traditional arc?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Aqua Jet sweetspot is crazy awesome, but really frustrating when you miss.

Yeah, I've had that happen to me too. It doesn't happen often, so I haven't worked out what causes it yet.

 

[sa1vy]

So after playing my squirtle against an actual person for the first time today, I have to the realization that I am not only a bad squirtle player, but also a horrible p:m player lol... I need to get the hang of this game.

 

[Tero.]

How come everybody uses withdraw to recover? When I do I just fall to my doom. What am I doing wrong?

 

[GunBlaze]

If you're in midair and use Withdraw, press Up B to Aqua Jet

 

[bubbaking]

Also, you can just cancel the Withdraw with nB. It's really good because it gives you added aerial mobility without sacrificing your ability to DJ or use other aerials. Just a split second of cancelled Withdraw will give Squirt a good boost in aerial speed. My most routine long-range recovery is Withdraw > nB cancel > DJ > wall-cling/WJ if applicable > Waterfall.

 

[Translucent]

Just practice withdraw, it's a really good recovery for him.

 

[Dubforce]

Squirtle actually is very bad. Here are a few of his worst match-ups:

Fox. Nuff Said.
Falco. Nuff said.
Rest of melee top tiers lol.
Charizard: outranges him with nair, can grab him out of side-b and tilt him out of side-b (dtitl, ftilt). Squirtle lacks approach options.
Zelda: Dins fire beats everything you have except fsmash. Since she can have 3 out, you will be hard pressed to keep them off the stage with watergun.
Wario: You name it, it beats your side b. Squirtles best approach options are side-b and nair (I use ftilt a lot as well). A list of things he can safely do to you out of your side-b: grab, bite, dtilt, dsmash, dair, fair, bair. List of things that trade with side-b: ftilt, side-b. List of things that beat your nair: nair. Wario definitely wins this match up, easily.
Snake: He has better range and can kill you early. His grab game sicks for you, as do the projectiles. He can put a mine on the edge and even a perfect sweetspot with up-b will detonate it before you grab the edge. It also kills very early off the top.
Sonic: Approaching him and/or catching him is hard. Nuff said.

These are his worst match ups in my opinion. He can be outspaced really well and he dies very early. Still though, I love him, and even though he has a few impossible match ups I will still play him.

I feel like its worth noting that if I feel too much pressure in a match up I tend to space with watergun. The method I use is to just keep them at the perfect distance where watergun will hurt them and do small hitstun. A distance where neither of you can actually hit each other.

Its also worth noting that a forward-moving aerial watergun with very little charge can be landcanceled and you can then ftilt very fast. Works wonders against characters with lightweght that wont immediately hit the ground after watergun hits (aka they cant shield right after) like marth, peach, zss, Ivysaur, etc.

 

[bubbaking]

Why are you using sideB so much? If things/chars easily beat it out, then use something else. Squirtle is extremely mobile. You should not be depending on Withdraw as your only way to get in, and what about your ability to zone with WG and Bubble?

Fox. Nuff Said.
Falco. Nuff said.

Because Squirt is so small, he can dash and attack under a lot of lasers. On top of that, SS > pivot JC grab works really on FFers at low-mid %'s. At higher %'s, it leads to great TCs and they usually don't tech it. Their recoveries are really susceptible to Bubble. You can just do it over and over again until they die. Our bair is also pretty good for knocking them out of upB since our tail has invincibility during it.

Rest of melee top tiers lol.

Sheik seems like she could be a dumb MU. Her mobility rivals ours and our falling speed and weight makes us optimal combo food for her crap. Jiggs is a totally different story, though. I've faced a couple Jiggs with Squirt, including a really campy one and the MU is probably around even. Squirt can directly challenge Puff's bair with his own because of tail invincibility. He can counter her ledge planking with WG. You just have to play patient and don't rush anything. Squirt can also kill Jiggs really early with like, anything. Since she's light and floaty, usmash is probably our best KO move against her, but fsmash works, fair and bair work, and dthrow works.

Charizard: outranges him with nair, can grab him out of side-b and tilt him out of side-b (dtitl, ftilt). Squirtle lacks approach options.

See, why are you trying to approach so much with Withdraw? It's a good move, but it's not an end-all-be-all approach tool and it's beaten out by a LOT of things. You should be weaving in and out with your great ground and air mobility and spacing with moves like Bubble. This can literally be applied to almost all of the MUs you listed that you're having trouble with.

He can be outspaced really well and he dies very early. Still though, I love him, and even though he has a few impossible match ups I will still play him.

'Out-mobilize' the opponent. Yes, Squirt dies early. That's why you want to look for openings and avoid trades. Use your zoning and spacing tools. Abuse that tail!

I feel like its worth noting that if I feel too much pressure in a match up I tend to space with watergun. The method I use is to just keep them at the perfect distance where watergun will hurt them and do small hitstun. A distance where neither of you can actually hit each other.

Personally, I think if you're being pressured too much, Bubble would be a safer and more effective option than WG. WG seems more like a wall/zoning tool. Bubble is fast and can quickly flip the tables.

Its also worth noting that a forward-moving aerial watergun with very little charge can be landcanceled and you can then ftilt very fast. Works wonders against characters with lightweght that wont immediately hit the ground after watergun hits (aka they cant shield right after) like marth, peach, zss, Ivysaur, etc.

Try aerial uncharged WG > grab as well. It's very similar to Sheik's land-cancelled aerial needles > grab.

 

[McNinja]

G&W and Pit are also bad for Squirtle imo. Reasons?

Pit: Squirtle is super light. Pit's up b kills at ridiculously low percents, but he doesn't even need to use it because before Squirlte gets to kill percent, he's already been gimped. If you're forced to up b to get to the ledge, the hitbox on the up be goes above the ledge even if you sweetspot. Know what that means? Plenty of mirror shield reverses from Pit. Plus, Pit's nair is godlike.

G&W: Squirtle approaches horizontally. Whether it is by wavedashing in, or withdrawing in. Have you guys seen G&W dtilt? Boom. Cuts off any kind of Squirtle approach. Nuff said.

Edit: oh and both bubble and WG fill up G&W bucket all the way. So approaching with either of these options IS possible, but can be terribly punished if the opponent reads you.

 

[Eaode]

Squirtle's spacies MU's aren't terrible. Yes they do spacies things to you, but squirtle is tiny and mobile and fast enough to weave even through spacies things. Your low traction makes their shield pressure a lot harder to use on you. Once you start a techchase the tables turn immediately. Squirtle's superious mobility makes consistently keeping the momentum in your favor doable even after a single opening or knockdown.

Your recovery isn't good but literally as soon as fox or falco get offstage they should be dying to bubble and WoP (and more bubble)

 

[bubbaking]

Pit: Squirtle is super light. Pit's up b kills at ridiculously low percents, but he doesn't even need to use it because before Squirlte gets to kill percent, he's already been gimped. If you're forced to up b to get to the ledge, the hitbox on the up be goes above the ledge even if you sweetspot. Know what that means? Plenty of mirror shield reverses from Pit. Plus, Pit's nair is godlike.

Dude, Squirtle being super light isn't exactly a good reason that Pit destroys us. It just means we should be playing it safe in all our MUs. The recovery thing is a legitimate issue but this means we'll have to use more of our tools to recover. DI everything high (Withdraw goes through arrows) and mix up between sweetspotting the ledge with Aqua Jet and recovering high for plat edge cancels.

G&W: Squirtle approaches horizontally. Whether it is by wavedashing in, or withdrawing in. Have you guys seen G&W dtilt? Boom. Cuts off any kind of Squirtle approach. Nuff said.

Squirtle's aerial mobility is just as good as his ground mobility. Squirtle can approach flexibly from both the ground or the air. You can jump over the dtilt and punish him with anything. You can Withdraw from the air too or jump over the dtilt while in Withdraw. You can also WD > dsmash through the dtilt because of 12% armor, I'm pretty sure. G&W's dtilt absolutely should NOT be walling you out. If it is, it's probably a problem with your fundamentals and not with Squirtle. The dtilt can catch one off-guard because of how fast it is, but if you read it, you can easily counter it. We aren't Samus or Luigi where we're pretty much glued to the ground, man.

oh and both bubble and WG fill up G&W bucket all the way. So approaching with either of these options IS possible, but can be terribly punished if the opponent reads you.

Woah, did not actually know this. Thanks for the heads up!