Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Yams Everywhere]

It's not precice at all, it's just the down 45 angles on the c stick...
It's forward hydro f smash that you have to be precise on, it's like one to two degrees max above the 45s

My hydro f-smashes are literally perfect. I fly way too far off the stage every time lol.

 

[Daftatt]

If you have one of the new white GameCube controllers that everyone and their mom has, then you can't hit the 45. It's a few degrees closer to the vertical. It's very precise. However, with the C-Stick method makes it so that you can travel farther and the move comes out faster. You're also facing the direction you are traveling, even though a pivot is involved.

The FHFS is difficult regardless of what controller you have. I have three old, good controllers and one of the new white ones. My three good controllers all do the 45, but my white one won't. Doesn't M2K only use the old ones? And HBox, and PPMD, and Mango... and Armada. I don't think I've seen them play tournament with one of the white ones.

Yeah damn right! What he said @ PlateProp what you gotta say now?!

 

[JCOnyx]

Well, if you really have such an easy time with FHFS then I envy you. It's easy to do a regular hydroplaned FSmash since all it requires is you pressing the opposite direction with the CStick when exiting a SS, but a Forward Hydroplaned FSmash is extremely difficult.

 

[Sir Skaro]

but a Forward Hydroplaned FSmash is extremely difficult.

It is, and I have yet to do it on purpose or see anyone do it on purpose. Pivoting works just as well. Plus learning to pivot has more applications and options. There is a way to do a FHFS across entire stages, like FD, without having to master that pesky angle. But in order to do it, up basically need an extra finger by your thumb to you need to give up an entire button on your controller.

While holding down an attack input, shellshift. A few frames after Squirtle is fully turned around, flick the C-Stick in the upper 45 ridge in the opposite direction you are going to travel. Timed perfectly, Squirtle will pivot and you will soar out of your shellshift (2/3ish of FD). If someone could explain why you can get so much more distance with the C-Stick pivot as opposed to the normal analog pivot, I would be interested in hearing it.

I wouldn't consider this method useless. I set my L button to an attack input to do these tricks. It's Squirtle largest hydroplane (if not tied with an actual FHFS) and it's commitment-less, since he is in neutral and can simply take one step to stop all momentum. I've gotten quite a few KOs out of this blank hydroplane, since my opponent doesn't expect the sudden, large distance. There are also some other tricks you can do, but most of them are almost useless for anything but style.

I will give the maddest of props to anyone who can master the FHFS using the impossible angle.

 

[JCOnyx]

Actually, all you need to do is HydroCrawl and then input the FSmash. HydroCrawl is the hardest part, as the timing and angle is pretty strict.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Oh yeah, huh

Now that I think about it, it may be the same maximum distance. Not sure, though. I guess it depends on preference. I've have muscle memory for the C-Stick method.

 

[Daftatt]

Actually, all you need to do is HydroCrawl and then input the FSmash. HydroCrawl is the hardest part, as the timing and angle is pretty strict.

what is the angle? I can never get it on my new controller!

 

[Jamwa]

Is there any reason to learning HydroPivot instead of just HydroCrawl? Don't they achieve the same thing?

 

[Daftatt]

Is there any reason to learning HydroPivot instead of just HydroCrawl? Don't they achieve the same thing?

Hydropivot is generally considered extremely easier to consistently execute than hydrocrawl. Hydropivot sends you facing backwards as you hydroplane, hydrocrawl has you facing forwards. Which matters for moves like D-tilt, and shield.

 

[PlateProp]

Yeah damn right! What he said @ PlateProp what you gotta say now?!

I use a classic controller

But I do have an original gc controller, it works the same as my CC, so idk how it's easier for you guys to forward hydro f smash but not get hydro d smashes with the c stick

 

[Burnsy]

FHFS would be easy if y'all wouldn't be babies and learned how to be consistent with manual pivots by quickly tilting the control stick. If you do it like this neither stick needs a precise angle. It's literally almost as easy as any other hydroplane fsmash to me, there's just one additional input (tilt to pivot) and its one I use for everything so it's not even hard.

Some of you claim to be able to do empty hydroplanes so its puzzling to me why everyone would be in such agreement that this is a supposedly difficult tech.

I also honestly cant understand why someone wouldn't want to learn empty hydroplane pivots if they understood how they work or have any ability to envision their usefulness.

One more thing, I'd like to back up the guys that have been talking about "the angle" being more difficult to hit on the white GCC reproductions. I own one of these AND an original gamecube controller and can confirm that by comparsion, trying to hit the angle on the white controller is STUPID. Its not super easy on the original controller either but I'd say its at least usable. On the white controller I feel its borderline unusable because of how silly it is to try to be consistent with it. Which is why I tend to just never use that input method in my matches.

 

[JCOnyx]

I can HydroCrawl semi consistently atm. I had it completely down but then went on a couple week vacation and... got a little rusty lol. I've never actually put practice into HydroPivots since you can accomplish everything it can do + more by HydroCrawling. That's probably not a good plan but I'll get to incorporating it into my game at some point.

 

[PlateProp]

oFHFS would be easy if y'all wouldn't be babies and learned how to be consistent with manual pivots by quickly tilting the control stick. If you do it like this neither stick needs a precise angle. It's literally almost as easy as any other hydroplane fsmash to me, there's just one additional input (tilt to pivot) and its one I use for everything so it's not even hard.

Some of you claim to be able to do empty hydroplanes so its puzzling to me why everyone would be in such agreement that this is a supposedly difficult tech.

I also honestly cant understand why someone wouldn't want to learn empty hydroplane pivots if they understood how they work or have any ability to envision their usefulness.

One more thing, I'd like to back up the guys that have been talking about "the angle" being more difficult to hit on the white GCC reproductions. I own one of these AND an original gamecube controller and can confirm that by comparsion, trying to hit the angle on the white controller is STUPID. Its not super easy on the original controller either but I'd say its at least usable. On the white controller I feel its borderline unusable because of how silly it is to try to be consistent with it.

Classic Controller Master Race

Real talk tho, I just sharpied the spot I needed to hit, practiced with it, and can do it easily now.

 

[~Dad~]

All the crazy Squirtle tech is cool and all but I think most of you care about it way too much.
Bwett's Squirtle is amish as hell and I still think he's better than almost all of us.

Because spacing,

and intelligent plays,

and ****.

 

[PlateProp]

All the crazy Squirtle tech is cool and all but I think most of you care about it way too much.
Bwett's Squirtle is amish as hell and I still think he's better than almost all of us.

Because spacing,

and intelligent plays,

and ****.

I learned how to combine amish bull**** with advanced squirtle technology.

It works when I don't kill myself

 

[~Dad~]

Straight up, everyone just ignore all the ATs until you have a real feel for the character, his moves, his movement, and how not to ****ing kill yourself every game.

 

[PlateProp]

Straight up, everyone just ignore all the ATs until you have a real feel for the character, his moves, his movement, and how not to ****ing kill yourself every game.

Dad give me better internet so lag doesnt kill me in netplay and i'll fit your criteria

 

[~Dad~]

Dad give me better internet so lag doesnt kill me in netplay and i'll fit your criteria

Get a Gamecube controller first you animal.

 

[Burnsy]

Classic Controller Master Race

Real talk tho, I just sharpied the spot I needed to hit, practiced with it, and can do it easily now.

What's your point of even saying this? I could do that too on my GCC if I desired, on the white GCC this barely works even when I already know what the angle is.

This is all BS anyways because although it is described by you guys as hitting an angle, the cstick doesn't even read diagonal inputs. Its reading right/left for the pivot and then down on the next frame. If you have any technical understand of how this stick works then you'll understand why for some controllers this is going to be a really inconsistent input.

 

[PlateProp]

Get a Gamecube controller first you animal.

I do have a gc controller...

What's your point of even saying this. I could do that too on my GCC if I desired but the white GCC has trouble doing it and I already know what the angle is.

This is all BS anyways because although it is described as hitting an angle, the cstick doesn't even read diagonal inputs. Its reading right/left for the pivot and then down on the next frame. If you have any technical understand of how this stick works then you'll understand why for some controllers this is going to be a really inconsistent input.

When I say angle, I mean the physical angle you have to do. And all I said was that MY controllers had no problem doing so. Not yours. Mine. Even if the game doesn't read diagonal inputs (which makes no sense because then you couldn't SDI), you still have to hit te physical angle with the c stick to do the FHFS that way.

 

[Burnsy]

If you SDI diagonally with cstick, the game is reading two stick directions being pressed on the same frame. I never said anything about the GAME not reading diagonals as their own input, just the cstick.

 

[~Dad~]

Update: I hate everything.

 

[PlateProp]

If you SDI diagonally the game is reading two stick directions being pressed on the same frame

I don't understand why you have such a huge problem with c sticking a FHFS. So what if your/someone else's controller can't do it? You have multiple ways of performing it, and it's not like you couldn't order an original GC controller off the net/use a classic controller if you wanted to use the c sticked version.

 

[Burnsy]

I dont have a huge problem with it. I thought we were talking about dsmash anyways but all of the hydroplane attacks are very easy for myself to execute since I dont bother with that cstick crutch.

I do have a problem with people calling the FHFS or the HDS difficult and refusing to try any method other than the cstick method. I also have a problem with people who refuse to try and get consistent with empty hydroplanes because I think they're either ignorant of how useful it is, or afraid of hard work.

 

[~Dad~]

Really though is nobody going to tell me what the hell "cobra" is?

 

[JCOnyx]

I think you're misunderstanding us. I don't use the CStick for any of my Hydroplanes. In fact, the tech I rely on the most is HydroShield and HydroDodge (approaching with a spot dodge). I have to be able to empty hydroplane in order to accomplish those tech. It's just I'm not going to underplay how difficult it is to pull those off consistently.

 

[Burnsy]

That wasn't directed at anyone specifically. It was a statement in general for the people it applies to. This all was started by someone saying FHFS was hard and myself wanting to point out that if you can empty hydroplane then it isn't hard to just fsmash afterwards.

 

[Daftatt]

I can HydroCrawl semi consistently atm. I had it completely down but then went on a couple week vacation and... got a little rusty lol. I've never actually put practice into HydroPivots since you can accomplish everything it can do + more by HydroCrawling. That's probably not a good plan but I'll get to incorporating it into my game at some point.

not true, hydroshield from hydropivot is uniquely useful in that it lets you slide past attacks to right behind your opponent and facing them, an ideal strategic position.

 

[~Dad~]

oh my god daftatt are you really not going to tell me what cobra is

 

[Daftatt]

oh my god daftatt are you really not going to tell me what cobra is

Cobra is a name for a particular strategy I have been developing with squirtle which includes the stipulation, "moving as fast as possible literally all the time". It's an attempt to dominate stage control with squirtle, and also to use his unique movement to force an opponent into unique positions onstage that give squirtle the most options to get in.

tldr; cobra is me trying to master and incorporate literally all squirtle tech into my play at all times. Also when the shinobi alt comes out in 3.5 it will be cool to shout "COBRA!" as a ninja.

 

[~Dad~]

TLDR: cobra is me trying to master and incorporate all squirtle tech into my play at all times. Also when the shinobi alt comes out in 3.5 it will be cool to shout "COBRA!" as a ninja.

Well that's just silly lol

 

[~Dad~]

Squirtle players have the biggest boner for naming things lmao

 

[Daftatt]

Well that's just silly lol

I dunno man, I've been practicing really hard and it's starting to pay off, squirtle plays like capt falcon with a projectile, good recovery, armor, great grab game, and pressure capabilities. You can avoid being hit for as long as you want and you try and constantly keep space to punish any whiff/landing of the opponent with a grab or watergun or whatever.

Squirtle players have the biggest boner for naming things lmao

It's really just a boner for discovery!
I'm taking the character in a direction that no one else will.

 

[~Dad~]

Instead of calling it "cobra style" have you considered calling it "movement"?

lol

 

[JayMan-X]

I dunno man, I've been practicing really hard and it's starting to pay off, squirtle plays like capt falcon with a projectile, good recovery, armor, great grab game, and pressure capabilities. You can avoid being hit for as long as you want and you try and constantly keep space to punish any whiff/landing of the opponent with a grab or watergun or whatever.

great grab game? ive always felt like squirtle's grab game is very meh tbh (up until maybe ~120% when dthrow starts to kill)

 

[~Dad~]

It's really just a boner for discovery!
I'm taking the character in a direction that no one else will.

That's quite the assumption there.

 

[Daftatt]

Instead of calling it "cobra style" have you considered calling it "movement"?

lol

Yeah, of course. Lol, you really I'm vain. It's just a joke I was drunk and made a Cobra tag in P:M, started playing really well so I'd thought I'd keep it.

That's quite the assumption there.

Ehh maybe, and I'll happily recant it the instant I see someone doing something similar with the character, BTW i'm not saying I'm playing him better than other people, just getting that out there. Just faster. Definitely not claiming to be the best squirtle player, now that would be quite an assumption lol.

great grab game? ive always felt like squirtle grab game is very meh tbh (up until maybe ~120% when dthrow starts to kill)

Squirtle, has one of the best grab games in hydrograb, it's basically a barely punishable, longer, faster (as it's literally the fastest moving grab in the game with the most reach) tether grab that not only repositions your character but also your opponents and usually forces and edgeguard, not to mention you have light armor the entire time going into grab and you can shorten the distance to your liking. With mastery it can punish the smallest of landing lag from up to half the stage away and can armor through attacks in mysterious ways (sometimes I think SS light armor stays on for a frame or two on some hydroplanes)

 

[~Dad~]

I move around constantly when I play am I a snake yet?

 

[Daftatt]

I move around constantly when I play am I a snake yet?

Lol, I don't know, show me a video of what you think exemplifies your movement with the character.

 

[~Dad~]

This video is old but it's snakey as ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG0d5kRxzkk