Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[JCOnyx]

not true, hydroshield from hydropivot is uniquely useful in that it lets you slide past attacks to right behind your opponent and facing them, an ideal strategic position.

See, I never thought of using it this way. That's really clever and I'll and have to practice it sometime soon.

great grab game? ive always felt like squirtle's grab game is very meh tbh (up until maybe ~120% when dthrow starts to kill)

You'll need to learn Squirtles FThrow chain grab and DI mixup with DThrow.

 

[Daftatt]

This video is old but it's snakey as ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG0d5kRxzkk

XD Holy crap that's awesome. Props to you for that but I was actually talking about a normal match vs anyone, even CPUs.

 

[JayMan-X]

Squirtle, has one of the best grab games in hydrograb, it's basically a barely punishable, longer, faster (as it's literally the fastest moving grab in the game with the most reach) tether grab that not only repositions your character but also your opponents and usually forces and edgeguard, not to mention you have light armor the entire time going into grab and you can shorten the distance to your liking. With mastery it can punish the smallest of landing lag from up to half the stage away and can armor through attacks in mysterious ways (sometimes I think SS light armor stays on for a frame or two on some hydroplanes)

Hydrograb seems really "gimmicky" (?) to use as a punish since you basically have to have started it before your opponent has even done anything yet. Maybe if you shellshift around the stage all day you could get a few good punishes out of it, but shellshifting like that means there will be times when u can't shield which is kinda dangerous.
By squirtle's grab game, i meant his grab options once he gets a grab. I feel like his only usable throws are fthrow and dthrow which both dont give you much... fthrow u might get a fair with Bad DI, and dthrow u just get dmg. The two becomes kind of a mixup at kill percents since you have to DI fthrow away to avoid the fair followup, and DI downthrow in to avoid instantly dying.

 

[~Dad~]

XD Holy crap that's awesome. Props to you for that but I was actually talking about a normal match vs anyone, even CPUs.

~~woosh~~

 

[JayMan-X]

edit: double post :s
just to make this post meaningful, i think all Squirtle players should use fsmash more bcuz its hella safe and it eats everything

 

[Burnsy]

Update: I hate everything.

 

[Daftatt]

Hydrograb seems really "gimmicky" (?) to use as a punish since you basically have to have started it before your opponent has even done anything yet. Maybe if you shellshift around the stage all day you could get a few good punishes out of it, but shellshifting like that means there will be times when u can't shield which is kinda dangerous.
By squirtle's grab game, i meant his grab options once he gets a grab. I feel like his only usable throws are fthrow and dthrow which both dont give you anything quaranteed... fthrow u might get a fair with Bad DI, and dthrow u just get dmg. The two becomes kind of a mixup at kill percents since you have to DI fthrow away to avoid the fair followup, and DI downthrow in to avoid instantly dying.

Hydrograb with good spacing is godlike, I really hope you experiment with it some more.

As far as squirtles throw/followup game I have a few tricks, they of course depend on falling speed of the opponent.

Fast fallers low percent, D-throw, run pivot-grab them or just set up a tech chase, or slingjump aerial them. Once they're above 30% I'll upthrow up-tilt them until they DI out then I regrab and f-throw D-throw DI trap until I get them offstage.

For a lot of other characters I can up-throw up-tilt regrab at the lowest percents, then at above mid percents his grab game starts to require advanced techniques to let him followup like reverse hydroplane U-smash, or slingjumping after them.

Honestly as squirtle I feel his movement let's him punish characters who are falling back to the ground (as long as it' isn't jiggs or something), so I'll commonly D-throw to mess and let them DI up and then fling around the stage setting up position to destroy them as soon as they try and land, Up air can beat out an amazing amount of attacks due to his tail being intangible.

edit: double post :s
just to make this post meaningful, i think all Squirtle players should use fsmash more bcuz its hella safe and it eats everything

I don't think it's safe, for instance it's shield grabbed really easily. But I really like hydroplaning it, it's really good. It's also the move I use to rest punish jiggs because up-smash can be immediately shielded after the initial hit (which is a balance to it since it can shoot across the stage with full charge and huge range lol)

 

[JayMan-X]

I don't think it's safe, for instance it's shield grabbed really easily. But I really like hydroplaning it, it's really good. It's also the move I use to rest punish jiggs because up-smash can be immediately shielded after the initial hit (which is a balance to it since it can shoot across the stage with full charge and huge range lol)

i think fsmash is safe because of how he reels back after he lounges forward, but maybe the ppl i play just fail at shield grabbing fast enough. Maybe ill test it out later or something.

 

[Jamwa]

Squirtle's grab lasts 2 frames .-.
R.I.P. in peace grab game

 

[Daftatt]

Squirtle's grab lasts 2 frames .-.
R.I.P. in peace grab game

Yeah, but with interpolation, because of how fast he moves in hydrograb during the grab box frames it ends up being a DDD+ sized grab box on a max length hydrograb. The grab box shortens as your hydrograb shortens. It's funny because if it were 3 frames it would be completely broken, the grab box would be stupid huge and would require no accuracy.

 

[Jamwa]

standing/JC grab can be so lame sometimes though, like missing if the opponent uses an attack as you grab.
at least its not melee Ness :/ why do i even bother trying to grab with Ness

 

[Player -0]

standing/JC grab can be so lame sometimes though, like missing if the opponent uses an attack as you grab.
at least its not melee Ness :/ why do i even bother trying to grab with Ness

Because you're too much of a scrub to DJC Dair OoS to ultra combo. We SFIV now.



Gonna mess with stuff like Up-Throw -> Dair -> DJ -> Side B -> Fair later on.

 

[JayMan-X]

DDD cannot shield grab a well-spaced fsmash. Other characters like Mario have a hard time grabbing it even upclose, and im pretty sure Ganon and CFalcon cannot shield grab it at all.

 

[Jamwa]

Because you're too much of a scrub to DJC Dair OoS to ultra combo. We SFIV now.

Too bad the start up for Ness' dair in Melee is a stock

DDD cannot shield grab a well-spaced fsmash. Other characters like Mario have a hard time grabbing it even upclose, and im pretty sure Ganon and CFalcon cannot shield grab it at all.

what about WD OoS and then grab..?

 

[Jamwa]

Ignore this double post mods pls remove ty

 

[JayMan-X]

Too bad the start up for Ness' dair in Melee is a stock

what about WD OoS and then grab..?

tried that too... fsmash recovers fast enough to roll or spot dodge out the way

 

[Daftatt]

DDD cannot shield grab a well-spaced fsmash. Other characters like Mario have a hard time grabbing it even upclose, and im pretty sure Ganon and CFalcon cannot shield grab it at all.

Everyone in washington perfectshield-grabs it. Doesn't everyone perfectshield everything all the time everywhere else? Because I'm not even joking, we even try to perfect shield all of falco's lasers. Map shield to X/Y and you have a perfectsheild button.

 

[JCOnyx]

If there is one thing us Washingtonians have down it's powershielding. I remember playing a friendly match in melee a couple weeks ago where I powershielded like 5-6 knees in a row from some dude. I may not take melee as seriously but I can still turn some heads when I put the effort into it lol.

Real talk tho, FSmash is situational at best when used on someones shield. The only options you really have to escape their punish is roll or spot dodge... which is extremely easy to read and adjust to once the opponent learns this. I only ever use FSmash as a punish when I really want the opponent offstage and they are too far away to HydroGrab so I FHFS. Other than that I tend to forget about it.

 

[PlateProp]

If there is one thing us Washingtonians have down it's powershielding. I remember playing a friendly match in melee a couple weeks ago where I powershielded like 5-6 knees in a row from some dude. I may not take melee as seriously but I can still turn some heads when I put the effort into it lol.

Real talk tho, FSmash is situational at best when used on someones shield. The only options you really have to escape their punish is roll or spot dodge... which is extremely easy to read and adjust to once the opponent learns this. I only ever use FSmash as a punish when I really want the opponent offstage and they are too far away to HydroGrab so I FHFS. Other than that I tend to forget about it.

But normal HFS is so useful

I've dodged so many attacks thanks to it.

Plus because of the weird suction effect I usually get a sliding dtilt out of it

 

[JCOnyx]

But you'd be safer just empty hydroplaning or HydroShielding in most of those instances though. That way you won't have to wait through the recovery frames of the FSmash.

Has anyone else noticed that Squirtle is sometimes lower to the floor when you FHFS? Like... he doesn't jump up as high when he attacks and it just looks like he's skidding across the floor. Anyone have a guess as to why that is and if it effects the actual hitboxes/vertical range of the attack at all?

 

[Burnsy]

Are you sure you aren't just angling the fsmash down >_> ? That is a thing, you know.

 

[JCOnyx]

Really? Why would you ever angle Squirtle's FSmash down when it hits everything just fine, even a crouching Kirby.

This is probably what's happening since I'm doing it out of a HydroCrawl and I'm possibly still holding down the control stick when doing the FSmash.

 

[Burnsy]

Mostly because it would be odd if he could only angle it up, which is useful in a number of situations. I only know of characters who can angle fsmash up and down, not just up.

Also, there are times where the downward one could be useful for hitting under a deteriorated sheild instead of getting blocked like a normal one would, so it's not *completely* useless. As far as I know it's use is highly situational though, for sure.

 

[Player -0]

Also hit people on the ledge from half the stage away. Does anyone know if angling it down affects how how long the move lasts?

 

[PlateProp]

Also hit people on the ledge from half the stage away. Does anyone know if angling it down affects how how long the move lasts?

It shortens your hydroplane cuz you're being a **** and forcing Squirtle to slam himself into the stage (Really tho it does shorten it)

 

[Burnsy]

Also hit people on the ledge from half the stage away. Does anyone know if angling it down affects how how long the move lasts?

Nope, the only difference is the placement. The startup, active, and endlag are the same regardless of where its aimed.

I dont think it necessarily does shorten your hydroplane. That's likely an executional mistake.

 

[Daftatt]

@ JCOnyx can you describe what you imagine to be the exact input method for hydrocrawl? It's the only AT I have trouble with still.

 

[JCOnyx]

The best way I can describe it is just as soon as you're about to exit the SS, quickly snap the control stick diagonally down behind you, just below the notch, and then return the stick to nuetral. If held too long, you'll get a Hydroplane Reversal. I'm on mobile and at work atm so I'll go into more detail later.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

I finally have some time off of school to practice my squirtle tech.

 

[~Dad~]

I went to a small Texas tournament over the weekend and finally got some more stuff recorded, I'll post the vids whenever they're done uploading.


I got second lmao

 

[Professor Pro]

I bet I could take Prof to game 5

But that's just me being cocky and banking on Prof not knowing what Squirtle can do.

He defs know how to shutdown wd spam tho

That match was like 7 months ago lol, you would be silly to think nothing has changed since then and banking on me being ignorant on what Squirtle can do

I'm actually going to Sweden tomorrow to practice with Armada for 6 days and I'll also be on his stream and there will be a tourney with VJ there, so we will see how similar the results are with 7 months of time gone if I play him in bracket

 

[Daftatt]

That match was like 7 months ago lol, you would be silly to think nothing has changed since then and banking on me being ignorant on what Squirtle can do

I'm actually going to Sweden tomorrow to practice with Armada for 6 days and I'll also be on his stream and there will be a tourney with VJ there, so we will see how similar the results are with 7 months of time gone if I play him in bracket

Lol, you gettin all like

You scared pro, admit it.

 

[Professor Pro]

Lol, you gettin all like

You scared pro, admit it.

LOOOL the picture

And yes, very scared

 

[PlateProp]

LOOOL the picture

And yes, very scared

EXACTLY

Yu never encountered a wild squirtle that knew how to do something other than withdraw spam q`q

which is what I would be banking on

Becuz Plate is cocky q`q

 

[Sir Skaro]

So... Squirtle has pseudo float cancels on Smashville.

If you BHFS the same direction the platform is moving at a speed that gets you to the ledge of the platform (but not fast enough to completely over take it) you fall off the platform, but then the platform catches you. But then you fall off, and then the platform catches you in a very short frame cycle. In that cycle every aerial you do is ledge canceled. I threw out two nairs and a jab in about 20 frames.

The PMBR dreamed of creating the world's strongest pokemon. And they succeeded.


EDIT: Make that 3 nairs in 20 frames.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Could you explain to me what a BHFS is?

 

[Sir Skaro]

Backwards Hydroplane Forward Smash. The one where you just flick the c-stick in the opposite direction in the shell shift and forward smash the opposite way you're facing

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Man this stuff is crazy. I might start to go to smashville more often.

 

[PlateProp]

Backwards Hydroplane Forward Smash. The one where you just flick the c-stick in the opposite direction in the shell shift and forward smash the opposite way you're facing

That's just a hydroplane f smash Skaro
only time you add direction is when you say Forward Hydroplane F smash

 

[Sir Skaro]

That's just a hydroplane f smash Skaro
only time you add direction is when you say Forward Hydroplane F smash

I discover float cancels for a character that can't float and you correct my terminology? I'll see you after class. In the parking lot.