Squeezing it all in: 40 characters is less than it seems.

[SupaSmashBrotha]

G&W was one of my favs I liked his moves especially his juggler throw b/c ppl would get so mad that this guy who looks like the weakest player in the game would be winning.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

G&W was one of my favs I liked his moves especially his juggler throw b/c ppl would get so mad that this guy who looks like the weakest player in the game would be winning.

Yeah, it takes more skill to be good with G&W than it does to be good with shiek or Marth. But then agan, haven't we learned in smash that looks mean nothing in terms of skill? Sure, CF looks like he could kickass, but Ness doesn't, he looks like a short kid with an abnormaly large head, but he's kickass too

 

[SupaSmashBrotha]

Yeah, but I'm mostly around Smash noobs so they don't get it.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Yeah, but I'm mostly around Smash noobs so they don't get it.

You mean the guys who only play as shiek or Marth because they have no real talent or time to master a character like Ness or G&W? Yeah, they are annoying because they think everyone who isn't Shiek, Marth, or a character they like sucks, then you beat them with a character they think sucks, then they complain and whine and mope and never stop. At least that's what the person I always beat as G&W does, and he's 14. [sarcasm]way to act your age, pal.[/sarcasm]

 

[FlipTroopa]

You mean the guys who only play as shiek or Marth because they have no real talent or time to master a character like Ness or G&W? Yeah, they are annoying because they think everyone who isn't Shiek, Marth, or a character they like sucks, then you beat them with a character they think sucks, then they complain and whine and mope and never stop. At least that's what the person I always beat as G&W does, and he's 14. [sarcasm]way to act your age, pal.[/sarcasm]

Strangely enough, I get the exact same attitudes, but I'm the only person who will play as Marth. My main is Yoshi, and our other mains (amongst the group) are Mewtwo, Samus, Falco, Captain Falcon, Ness, Kirby, Dr. Mario, and, ONOS, another Yoshi. So it's weird that, since this Smash circle has kept completely clean from Smashboards or Gamefaqs or basically any tourney/professional driven gameplay, we have found our own "tiers."

Mewtwo is top tier in our group, alongside Yoshi and Marth. Sheik we KNOW has potential, but we don't bother with her. Oh, and Falco is evil with us too, but... the guy can't spike or anything

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo top tier? Wierd... I hope he really is in the next game.

I hope characters are made more even in the next game, with only small differences between tiers.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

A game with such original diverse attacks, balance is but a dream.

 

[TDub301]

This was mentioned like on one of the first pages (and maybe again later, didn't feel like reading it all) but is there an official release date yet? He was talking about how the last game barely got 25 characters due to time constraints, but now they have their own production studio, but the time constraint may still be a problem. As far as I know, there's no release date, they may very well still be working on this game for another year (although I really hope not). I don't mind it being pushed back maybe to the second quarter of next year but I'm not sure if I can wait much longer than that without going crazy

 

[#HBC | marshy]

There is no release date yet, but I'm guessing May 07(get it? Mayo!).

At least we'll have plenty of good Wii titles and Melee to occupy ourselves with.

 

[Kalaquinn]

Might as well go for the 5th, with cinco de mayo and all.

 

[Deleted member]

May? Oh, ****, I'll be starting my exams then.

 

[kaid]

Christmas '07. I'll put money on it.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Lolz I play with so many characters. I play with G&W,Link,Doc,Mario,Falco,Shiek(Just cause she's a ninja..I hate her anyways),Mewtwo,Bowser(Boozer),Pikachu,Roy,Luigi,Samus. My best is Link..Shiek is my worst..lolz. Anyways I do have a mix

Oh I bet Summer of 07.

 

[Resting_Fox]

Summer of 07 Would be nice, ring in the vacation with Smash anytime you want, but if they are to fit in forty characters [which is what this topic's about] with only a few clones, I'd expect it to take longer than that. It took about six months for them just to design the five characters and three stages we see in the trailer. They didn't even have movesets for everyone at that point[like Snake and presumably ZS Samus].

 

[FlipTroopa]

Summer of 07 Would be nice, ring in the vacation with Smash anytime you want, but if they are to fit in forty characters [which is what this topic's about] with only a few clones, I'd expect it to take longer than that. It took about six months for them just to design the five characters and three stages we see in the trailer. They didn't even have movesets for everyone at that point[like Snake and presumably ZS Samus].

I was just gonna mention this myself, but seems like you got the jump

Japanese are actually clamoring for a summer release, so Sakurai is pushing it.

And as for those six months, they were "half-*****" months. I mean, it wasn't until June that he seriously started working on Brawl 24/7, you know? And Melee took 2 years to make, with Brawl essentially using the same engine.

 

[DarkKnight077]

I hope it is the Summer there are no freakin games in the summer!! All about movies and other crud but games?! Noooo!!! I have to waste crappy money on half-***** games!!

 

[FlipTroopa]

Mario Sunshine came out in the summer. So did Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire, I think.

And yeah, he makes Mewtwo look top tier. It's crazy. Even in 1v1s he's hard to beat (unless you play a very mean air game, like our Falco guy). Basically his strat is to play super-defensive. Dodge everything; teleport, don't jump; clear with Nair and KO with Fair; always have a Shadow Ball fully charged; once a person hits 90%+, go grab happy; and, as always, never use his other attacks

Unless you keep your eye on him during free-for-alls, you're pretty screwed, because he's a Sniper and KO Thief. And proud of it too. And for 1v1s, just roll with the punches. Parry when he grabs, keep him on the ground and down, and always always spike. Mewtwo is essentially built for taking advantage of weaknesses. That's why he's pretty low tier with most people; they never realize that he has to adapt to each situation. They just expect him to be like Sheik or Fox and just sweep house regardless of the opponent. But if you master Mewtwo, which my friend has, your only real problem becomes people who abused Marth's tipper or Falco's aerial attacks (which we jokingly call Aerial Ace ;p)

 

[Shadow Calibur]

40's not the number of characters I expect to be in Brawl, but it appears to be the most realistic amount. Here's my roster:

[MARIO SERIES]
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Daisy
Geno

[DONKEY KONG SERIES]
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool

[F-ZERO SERIES]
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

[STAR FOX SERIES]
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

[KIRBY SERIES]
Kirby
Meta-Knight
King Dedede

[METROID SERIES]
Samus/Zero Suit Samus (Just count them both as one character.)
Ridley

[POKEMON SERIES]
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Deoxys
Lucario

[LEGEND OF ZELDA SERIES]
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Vaati

[FIRE EMBLEM SERIES]
Marth
Lyn
Hector
Ike

[STAND ALONES]
Wario
Yoshi
Ness
Pit
Ice Climbers

[THIRD PARTY]
Snake
Sonic

There ya go, 40 characters. Seems to be logical.

 

[xianfeng]

Oh I bet Summer of 07.

Like near christmas! I want it to come out in Winter - Spring at the latest.

 

[Eaode]

I say spring 07. You people who want christmas must be crazy. I know we have melee and Wii games, but that'd be another Twilight Princess (which was scheduled for fall last year, and its now fall this year. Brawl was scheduled for fall this year, and winter next year would be a year!!!)

 

[kaid]

Brawl was never "Schedualed" for this year. Iwata said he was pushing for Smash Bros to be a launch title... And if they hadn't gotten Sakurai, and only did online Melee, it might well have been.

But with 35-45 characters to create, model and balance, PLUS lag-free online... the more time they have to get it right, the better. Spring or summer '08 may well be a better date.

 

[GenG]

I'm fine with the date, just release some friggin info to compensate that.

 

[xianfeng]

It should come out around Winter - Early Spring so anywhere from June - September next year. But that's at the latest.

 

[freeman123]

kaid
Sami (Advance Wars)
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)

You'd take these two over Falco?

FlipTroopa
I've always felt that the game would top around 35. It just seems like Sakurai couldn't push it much further.

Yeah, despite the fact that there's fighting games with over 50 characters... How can we possibly expect more then 35?

kaid
Sakura himself pointed us toward the 40-character model.

When? I'm not saying he didn't, I'm just asking for a source, because I didn't hear about that.

kaid
Falco has his fanbase, but... If falco lost the SHL, shine combos, and his spike, how much of his fanbase would vanish?

Does it matter? Why does he have to lose those things?

kaid
So if it came down to Wolf or Falco? winner gets the Assault moveset, loser doesn't get in?

What? If you're asking who people would want more out of Wolf or Falco, the answer is Falco. If it was Wolf, Wolf would have been in Melee instead of Falco.

 

[Black/Light]

It should come out around Winter - Early Spring so anywhere from June - September next year. But that's at the latest.

This is something we agree on for a change. . . .

Kaid. . . .Sping or Summer of 08? My god thats a long time! They would have spent around 3-4 years making this game by than. Can you brake that down to me alil bit more cause I cant see why you say that?

I would think winter of 07 would be the latest to expect. . .

 

[kaid]

Simple.
1) As of E3'05, the only work done on it was the announcement, by Mr Iwata. The production studio was formed from scrach.

2) At E3'06, Sakura was quoted as saying his team hadn't had time to do more than what was in the trailer.

3) the trailer included only 2 new characters with functional movesets, and 3 more with only character models. (the existing characters were only tweaks of the Melee versions, with improved character models)

Now, we saw 5 returning characters after one full year, and 5 new characters.

Lets be generous, and assume the character models had full movesets. Let's also assume that by E3'07, he could have another 10 returning characters and 10 new characters done. That's still only 4 more than melee.

Christmas '07 could give us 10 more characters, mostly returning, for a total of 40 characters.

If Sakurai held out for E3 '07, it could be as high as 50.

 

[icymatt]

Edit: Never mind.

To be fair, it's quite possible they wanted to limit the number of new characters they would put into the game before it was revealed, so then they could figure out what the people wanted afterwards. Plus, it did sound like they already have the new characters designs planned out, and some other stuff, too. We honestly don't know how fast they can work now that they have a good idea what they want.

I'd say hold out til next Wednesday, they just might have something there.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Am I being ******** or am I missing something? What's on Wednesday?
Probably just a pun....I keep telling myself....it's just a pun......it's just a pun....

Anyway, 50 is way too high, and even 40 is being generous.

We've gone over this:
35 is statistically the most realistic number, give or take a few of course.

EDIT: 35.....without clones that is. Clones throw all standards and logic into a bin and toss it into a Black Hole. [And not the Smash BH!]

 

[FlipTroopa]

I coulda swore I posted already about this... Weird

Okay, let's look at it this way. The game was announced E3 '05, but Sakurai only began work in October. The team wasn't working on it fully, as even Sakurai himself had other commitments. So from October of 05 to May of 06, for E3, they had essentially what was in the trailer.

6 Characters with full movesets (we at least assume they were full)
4 Other characters who were just models

That's 10 so far.

Now, let's break it down. Who is very likely coming back to Brawl, beyond those confirmed?

Fox
DK
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Luigi
Ness (and, if not, it's still the same moveset with a new face [Lucas])

That kicks it up to 16 characters.

And how about those we aren't too positive on, but are likely?

Peach
Bowser
Zelda (Sheik's appearance notwithstanding)
Marth
Ganondorf
Mewtwo

That's 22. Let's assume they keep the Puffster this time around too... 23.

And with 23, we have room for 17 more characters, assuming the total is 40. But if it took them 6 months to only give us 6 characters, working at half-pace, how does that equate to their current "full-time" workpace? If the game releases a year from now, is that 12 more characters? Is that more than 12? Less than 12? There's other things to develop in this game beyond characters, afterall.

Now here's some other things to consider.

-Snake is practically confirmed to be an unlockable, not a starting fighter.
-There will be at least 2 more third party characters. Sakurai said he might do it, but just by sheer fan demand and Miyamoto's prodding (did you read the interview with him?), this is pretty much definite.
-There are some characters that we might as well just confirm. King Dedede, Krystal, and Diddy Kong stand our prominently above the rest.

So what's that... 28? Okay. Now let's try something. Because that's only 2 more than Melee. Let's assume Sheik DOES reappear as Zelda's Down B. 29. And let's say they keep Falco due to fan demand. 30. And Young Link for the same reason, only cel-shaded or something. 31. There's 9 slots to fill to get to 40. Still a lot of spaces for Takamaru, Little Mac, Lolo, Waluigi... whoever the hell.

But what was the deadline? Oh yeah. The Japanese want this released in the summer. And due to the lack of recent news, interest in the game has SLIPPED (can you believe it? o.O). Can they actually create now 21 characters in the course of 12 months? Maybe if the bulk are resurrected from Melee, such as Peach, or even from the Beta Melee, such as Balloon Fighter. But it's really not feasible for them to produce a little under double the fighters in Melee. Depending on how many they axe, that just adds a lot more spaces to fill, and even if they do transfer them over that still requires graphical updates, Super Smash attacks, redo's on the stats and attacks, etc. etc. etc.

Not saying they can't do it. They made Melee in just two years. That's incredible. But.. you never know. Fan demand might be getting everyone a little TOO hyped, you know?

 

[Iggy K]

How could you leave out G&W, Flip? He's the video game equivilant to Chuck Norris.

 

[Chaos_Tyrant]

dude..what about megaman?

 

[FlipTroopa]

How could you leave out G&W, Flip? He's the video game equivilant to Chuck Norris.

I want him to say, but I dunno. Been kinda cynical lately. Can't see him staying... the whole "LOL IT'S A GAME AND WATCH" gag is five years old already. Not really worth doing again, right?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I want him to say, but I dunno. Been kinda cynical lately. Can't see him staying... the whole "LOL IT'S A GAME AND WATCH" gag is five years old already. Not really worth doing again, right?

Game and Watch is Nintendo History. It would be like not adding George Washington or Abraham Lincoln in an American History book. The "LOL! IT'S GAME AND WATCH" thing will never die, just like Mr. Game and watch will never die (and Melee proved it )

 

[FlipTroopa]

Game and Watch is Nintendo History. It would be like not adding George Washington or Abraham Lincoln in an American History book. The "LOL! IT'S GAME AND WATCH" thing will never die, just like Mr. Game and watch will never die (and Melee proved it )

well, yeahhhh, but.... >.< Oy. No use arguing, if it even was an attempt to

...so where is this "something's gonna happen wednesday!" crap coming from? I heard people going "lol something is happening next week, i can feel it in me bones"

 

[Iggy K]

Sad as it is, you're probably right on G&W not coming back. But we don't ditch G&W, G&W ditches us. And something's happening Wedensday? When did this happen?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Sad as it is, you're probably right on G&W not coming back. But we don't ditch G&W, G&W ditches us. And something's happening Wedensday? When did this happen?

Yeah, some people couldn't take his style and thought they where too cool for him. They where wrong. He's to cool for them. If he doesn't make it in, mayb e he'll come back as a download chracter O.o?

 

[FlipTroopa]

I guess they COULD just PATCH the game after its release...

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

i think the game is gonna hav more than 45 characters

 

[Iggy K]

And what are you basing this on?

 

[zuloon]

And what are you basing this on?

His daydreams.