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Squeezing it all in: 40 characters is less than it seems.

Muffin_man

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
376
There is no way I can see Nintendo including every single obscure character Parrothead can think up of.


Ninten is also incredably unlikely, because as far as I'm concerned, he's only four letters away from being an exact copy of Ness. It'll probably go like this; a Mother 3 character, and possibly a party member from either Mother 2 or 3.

And I have no idea why people a rooting for Zamus to be a seperate character, even when it's almost blaringly obvious both from the trailer and the description that she's a transformation for Samus. Especially when it clearly states, 'Rather, under certain conditions, Samus will "remove" her Power Suit.' I hardly doubt that he's talking about what it'll look like if you unlock her.
 

Black/Light

Smash Master
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
3,207
wow... way too many stand-alone chars... and your missing out Ridley, Falco (Luigified), and you have FOUR mother chars (i have nothing against mother games, i luv them, but Ness+Paula/Jeff+ maybe Flint is enough), you have Sothe from FE-Wii over alot better FE chars and you would prefer Fighter Hayabusa over Geno? You have to be kidding me.

and btw why isnt Yoshi in the Mario franchie? just wondering
AND he only has 3 pokemon when we know the top 3 series will get MORE characters (not reductions). The top 3 will at the LEAST get 5 characters each.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
1,618
Location
Leading my Drowned Knights into battle
Why are so many people asking for obscure characters? WHEN did Super Smash Brothers turn from "All-Stars duke it out!" to "Random people no one REALLY cares about duke it out!"

Clones aside, this is STILL a game that has standards that need to be met for the character to be in it. Whether we like it or not, we will NOT see any obscure characters.

And 35 is the right amount of "original" characters, but if Sakurai decides he likes clones, that number could shoot up.
 

Black/Light

Smash Master
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
3,207
Why are so many people asking for obscure characters? WHEN did Super Smash Brothers turn from "All-Stars duke it out!" to "Random people no one REALLY cares about duke it out!"

Clones aside, this is STILL a game that has standards that need to be met for the character to be in it. Whether we like it or not, we will NOT see any obscure characters.

And 35 is the right amount of "original" characters, but if Sakurai decides he likes clones, that number could shoot up.
I agree.

I really want to know what people think is a "obscure" character. Mainly because Parrothead has Starfy as one yet he is hella populare in Japan/ made by Surika(w/e I forgot of to spell his name) who said he plains to put in more of his own characters this time and he has like 4 games which were all great in sells. So I think he will get in. . . but why is he obscure?
 

Lishy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
470
Your a idiot to not include roy >=O

Marth sucks!!!!!!!! dont belive me compare the rom's(with english ips thingy so they are playable) of fe4(if thats the 1 with marth) and fe6!!!! marth is on the lowest tier and roy well,hes better then hector from fe7!!!!I TELL U DONT NEGLECT ROY YOU WILL BE SORRY

Also roy 100% does NOT fight like a sweeper,hes a staber who somtimes does RANGED attackes with the sealed sword!

Trust me roy>marth!!!!

I say TAKE AWAY MARTH!

its a new game it isnt the same as in melee...

though why cant we have em both?also pichu is highest on johto tier why remove him?he can have his own moveset!pichu uses a completly differnt moveset then pikachu but not as a offensive one!

mewtwo is very high on tier,jus cuz he sucked in melee well your well,dumb! Becuase its a new game.they were rushed before but now they have TIME
 

#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
3,928
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swag
Silly Lishy, Roy sucks in his game without his fancy sword, along with his father Eliwood. ALL the FE lords are good with their special weapon, it's how good they are without that proves if they're good fighters or not.

Marth sucks too(in his games), but he's the most popular FE lord so he should stay.

Add Sigurd and Ike, and we now have 3 popular FE lords. Roy was only popular because of Melee, not his game.

As for Pichu, not every Pokemon generation needs to be represented.

I agree with you about Mewtwo though.
 

FlipTroopa

Smash Lord
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,308
Location
Flip's Pad
First off, All-Stars implies ALL Stars. If that means they will include a character like Pit, who is fondly recalled by gamers 18+ and hasn't seen a new game in 15 years, then he must clearly be an "All-Star." So how can you count out characters like Little Mac, Takamaru, Lolo, etc. etc. who also share the misfortune of having been very popular in their heyday, but simply forgotten by gamedom because they just never had any recent games.

Nobody complains when Capcom goes ahead and places in characters like SonSon and Tron Bonne in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, who are, respectively, forgotten favorites and obscure n00bs. But they did it, and now people love the characters, and the game wouldn't be the same without them. It wouldn't be "complete."

Yes, Parrothead has some really really off the wall suggestions. Tin Star, Hiro, Uniracer... those probably aren't appearing. I'm pretty confident of that. But somebody like Takamaru? Or Muddy Mole? Characters that actually had million-seller games? Yeah, they're gonna appear.

Now, back to the Zamus topic, yeah... no point in arguing :p But the trailer could be viewed as just a means of introducing Zamus, while at the same time showing that Varia Suit Samus is still there, intact. I personally would be very pissed if they went and made Zamus some magical "take this much damage!" or "use the Super Smash!" transformation of Samus, and I'm pretty sure Sakurai knows people would hate the idea. So I'm just hanging onto whatever I can to keep "Zamus is a separate fighter" alive :p
 

#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
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swag
Silly Lishy, Roy sucks in his game along with his father Eliwood. ALL the FE lords are good with their final/special weapon, it's how good they are without that proves if they're good fighters or not.

Marth sucks, yes, but he was the most popular FE lord in Japan, even before Melee. Roy was only popular because of Melee.

Add Sigurd and Ike, and we now have popular FE lords.

Not every pokemon generation needs to be represented, and if you like to play as low/bottom-tier characters, play as Bowser and Mewtwo(that's what I do).

I agree with what you said about Mewtwo though.
 

Lishy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
470
Actually roy IS good without his sealed sword but the lord weps r the only weps they use in smash bros.But seriously roy is different!!!!he has uber speed,defence AND str!
 

Super_Cool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
322
Actually roy IS good without his sealed sword but the lord weps r the only weps they use in smash bros.But seriously roy is different!!!!he has uber speed,defence AND str!
Roy was only put in as an advertisement for a new FE game coming out at the time. Another reason for putting him in was because he could be a clone of Marth. Also, he was only playable in one game.

Marth, on the other hand, was the first FE character you play as AND has been playable in more than one FE game. He was also intended to be in SSBM in the first place.

Marth is coming back for Brawl.
 

GenG

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
1,473
Location
Spain
Actually roy IS good without his sealed sword but the lord weps r the only weps they use in smash bros.But seriously roy is different!!!!he has uber speed,defence AND str!
Smash Bros. doesn't care about how powerful and uber are the characters in their games. In the Smash Bros Melee world, Marth is a versatile and complete character, while Roy is pretty much limited. Mewtwo is the best Pokémon overall and again he is one of the crappiest characters in Melee. How powerful are the characters in their games don't matter here.

Marth is low tier in his games, because it was intended to be a weak unit to protect and add strategy to the game, but at the end of Book1 and through Book 2 he is powerful to a extent with all the orbs equipped and the Falchion.

The wrong idea was giving Roy Marth's moves, because were intented for Marth and Marth only. If Roy makes it in again, they should correct most, if not all of his moves.
 

Lishy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
470
I said it again and I said it before

there is no way his moveset will be similer in any way to marths

roy has:
medium speed
semi high attack
medium defence
medium jump
medium falling

Roy has a tiny bit of ranged B botton moves but hes mostly physical.Using a vararity of stabbing and swiped along with a bit of ranged attacks he puts up a good match
Hes pretty much your averahe charactor with a good arsonal of combos!
 

Onion Link

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
6
Location
Red Deer, AB, Canada
What i dont get is why they just get rid of the confusion and say, "hey were putting in every character that was in SSBM but were are also adding: Z.S.Samus, Pit, ..."

And then of course do that, because no matter how odd/pointless you think the character is theres always a following behind them (yes even Pichu). That way you never make anyone mad for removing their favorite character, Oh man... Video game designers can be so dumb somtimes (take BF1942 for example ;) )

Anyway ima still 90% sure ill buy SSBB
 

icymatt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,154
Not 100%? You heretic!

Seeing how hard it was for me to pick out the 40, I am really glad I don't have that responsibility. It also makes me appreciate the developers even more, for making these decisions the best they can, maybe even sacrificing their own championed ideas for the best for the game. I know there will be dissapointments, but that's my fault because I want too much. They wil choose what's best, though.
 

JPW

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
903
Location
Sydney, Australia
what is so good about Olimar? He just a guy in a space suit with Pikmin. Then again that's my feeling, I can always beat him up, but I don't understand his popularity, I will admit Pikmin is very innovative, but Olimar just doesn't cut it for a worthy fighter to me.

And I really think Ice Climbers will be dropped. or at least have been replaced by Pit.

I reckon Ridley would be kind of weird cause he's actually a bat, and most of the times he could just fly back on, which gives anyone a total advantage. I would rather have him in an event match. And have anyone verse him.

Sonic isn't just popular in the US, He's quite popular everywhere. He may be the most popular in the US. But i've been to Europe and he is quite favourable, even in the UK, he is a favourite, even in Australia, more girls remember Sonic then Mario.

As for Roy and Marth, I keep on having a feeling they're cut, but due to FE popularity growing, and it showing up around the world. I say Marth and Roy could stick around, and maybe 2 others could join the fray. I reckon Ike is a very good candidate, and a Sage is bound to be included. To be honest I want Hector, Lyn and Eliwood from Blazing Sword.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said "there were going to be some brutal cuts. But whatever the case if the cuts gave good replacements, then i'm sure all could be forgiven.
 

Cyphus

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
3,086
Location
Austin, TX
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach

Yoshi, Wario, Toad
(toad deserves in. too many mario characters? goodbye dr.mario =D. Hello dr.mario costume for mario)

DK, Diddy

Link, Zelda, Ganon
(i'd personally rather his focus NOT be the sword, but rather use his actual magic attacks from previous games, and just have maybe a couple sword moves. No real need for Y.Link. The whole time-difference is very......Ocarina of Time-ish, and we need to MOVE ON. And i'd rather if Zelda was just Zelda, and they left sheik out)

Fox, Falco
(why do we need wolf?...we have a "fox" already. Falco was hard enough to make unique from fox. Its all you FURRIES that refuse to give up. And Krystal? Every starfox game she's been in, hasn't been good. Again..we have a "fox" save-space for better characters)

Samus/ZeroSuit, Ridely
(bowser has been shrunken, kirby has been grown. Ridley has been multiple sizes throughout the games, so his size is not an issue. He's the most popular villain, and has enough moves to work with)

Ness, Poo
(just give Ness his OWN moves. heck you could even put in Paula and give her back her moves)

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario
(deoxys just looks stupid, no matter what form its in. Lucario at least is semi-humanoid and has an interesting design that doesn't resemble an amoeba. Besides he looks wolf-like, so that outta satisfy the Furries who want wolf/crystal.)

Pit, Lil Mac, Mr.G&W, IceClimbers, Muddy Mole
(WTF@ people wanting balloon fighter. 0___0? he flies around with balloons......thats it. thats the entire game.)


Captain Falcon
(I don't think they'll add more f-zero cast, but if they d,o Deathborn and Pico would make the best choice, imo)

Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede

Marth, Roy

Snake, Sonic, Geno

Dropped: Dr.mario, pichu, Y.link

Total: 36, but i think they'll deffinately have 40. I'm just not farmiliar with Advance Wars series, FireEmblem series, etc to make assumptions/desires from those franchises. But either way, this is a new system using bigger games...and a team of programmers that already know what they want to do...i wouldn't doubt they could pull 45.
 

JPW

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
903
Location
Sydney, Australia
what is so good about Olimar? He just a guy in a space suit with Pikmin. Then again that's my feeling, I can always beat him up, but I don't understand his popularity, I will admit Pikmin is very innovative, but Olimar just doesn't cut it for a worthy fighter to me.

And I really think Ice Climbers will be dropped. or at least have been replaced by Pit.

I reckon Ridley would be kind of weird cause he's actually a bat, and most of the times he could just fly back on, which gives anyone a total advantage. I would rather have him in an event match. And have anyone verse him.

Sonic isn't just popular in the US, He's quite popular everywhere. He may be the most popular in the US. But i've been to Europe and he is quite favourable, even in the UK, he is a favourite, even in Australia, more girls remember Sonic then Mario.

As for Roy and Marth, I keep on having a feeling they're cut, but due to FE popularity growing, and it showing up around the world. I say Marth and Roy could stick around, and maybe 2 others could join the fray. I reckon Ike is a very good candidate, and a Sage is bound to be included. To be honest I want Hector, Lyn and Eliwood from Blazing Sword.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said "there were going to be some brutal cuts. But whatever the case if the cuts gave good replacements, then i'm sure all could be forgiven.

I think we'll have details of the first cut in just 10 days though with the Liepzig Games Convention, and Nintendo pronmising Wii content. I also think we'll have our second third party character announced. I really reckon they should reveal it to be Sonic, that that would get his specualtion and make more people think, now that's Sonic's in who could make the last cut.
 

Eaode

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,923
Location
Glen Cove/RIT, New York.
I'll take a shot at it, but you'll all hate mine probably lol

Mario Franchise:
Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi (w/e, he's still a mario char.)
Boo

Zelda Franchise:
Link
Zelda
Gannondorf
Majora/Skull Kid

Pokemon Franchise:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Deoxus

Donkey Kong Franchise:
Donkey Kong
King K. Rool (Diddy would most likely just be a clone)

Kirby Franchise:
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Metroid Franchise:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

F-Zero Franchise:
Capt. Falcon
Samurai Goroh??

Fire Emblem Franchise:
Marth
(No idea, I've never played any FE)

Star Fox Franchise:
Fox
Falco
Krystal

Earthbound/Mother Franchise:
Ness
(No idea, haven't played these either)

Stand Alone:
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Pit
Little Mac??
Captain Olimar??

3rd Party:
Snake
Sonic
Mega Man or Pac Man

Whatcha think?
 

FlipTroopa

Smash Lord
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,308
Location
Flip's Pad
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach

Yoshi, Wario, Toad
(toad deserves in. too many mario characters? goodbye dr.mario =D. Hello dr.mario costume for mario)

DK, Diddy

Link, Zelda, Ganon
(i'd personally rather his focus NOT be the sword, but rather use his actual magic attacks from previous games, and just have maybe a couple sword moves. No real need for Y.Link. The whole time-difference is very......Ocarina of Time-ish, and we need to MOVE ON. And i'd rather if Zelda was just Zelda, and they left sheik out)

Fox, Falco
(why do we need wolf?...we have a "fox" already. Falco was hard enough to make unique from fox. Its all you FURRIES that refuse to give up. And Krystal? Every starfox game she's been in, hasn't been good. Again..we have a "fox" save-space for better characters)

Samus/ZeroSuit, Ridely
(bowser has been shrunken, kirby has been grown. Ridley has been multiple sizes throughout the games, so his size is not an issue. He's the most popular villain, and has enough moves to work with)

Ness, Poo
(just give Ness his OWN moves. heck you could even put in Paula and give her back her moves)

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario
(deoxys just looks stupid, no matter what form its in. Lucario at least is semi-humanoid and has an interesting design that doesn't resemble an amoeba. Besides he looks wolf-like, so that outta satisfy the Furries who want wolf/crystal.)

Pit, Lil Mac, Mr.G&W, IceClimbers, Muddy Mole
(WTF@ people wanting balloon fighter. 0___0? he flies around with balloons......thats it. thats the entire game.)


Captain Falcon
(I don't think they'll add more f-zero cast, but if they d,o Deathborn and Pico would make the best choice, imo)

Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede

Marth, Roy

Snake, Sonic, Geno

Dropped: Dr.mario, pichu, Y.link

Total: 36, but i think they'll deffinately have 40. I'm just not farmiliar with Advance Wars series, FireEmblem series, etc to make assumptions/desires from those franchises. But either way, this is a new system using bigger games...and a team of programmers that already know what they want to do...i wouldn't doubt they could pull 45.
The furries are precisely it XD XD You, sir, speak only TRUTH!

As for Ridley... he can be decheapened/clipped/shrinked/whatever... and he's a DRAGON, not a bat. Though your Sakurai quote is exactly what was said, so good job reminding us all of that :p

And dude.. third third party addition is soooo Bonk. I stand by it!
 

icymatt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,154
And I really think Ice Climbers will be dropped. or at least have been replaced by Pit.
I don't see why you can't have both. One represents random NES games, and one represents Kid Icarus, a game with a huge cult following that cannot be filed as a 'random NES game'.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said "there were going to be some brutal cuts. But whatever the case if the cuts gave good replacements, then i'm sure all could be forgiven.
Not from the original post:

Sorry. I'm not very smart but I can't tell a lie so I'm just going to write it.
As for the previous game's characters, some of them will disappear. Definitely.

For the last game, we struggled to assemble 26 characters. We tried really hard and unintentionally reached that number.

But, although you'll see characters from the last game, this time, on a significant scale [Yes, this is exact], they will be remade. It is this sort of thing [This sentence is slang, so there really isn't a good English translation for it].

For argument's sake, no matter how much staff there is, with just manpower we can’t just put in everything, and as my own job [read: workload] does not decrease, there is a limit.

But, the consumer’s desired things to be included [There really isn’t a good English equivalent for that word] are weeeeell understood. You will be [he doesn’t give a subject to the sentence, so I’m using ‘you’] happy regarding the adapted characters moving around on different stages as well [The email he is responding to complained about how there are only 3 ‘fair’ stages in SSBM].
 

SupaSmashBrotha

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
528
Location
In your house
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario
(deoxys just looks stupid, no matter what form its in. Lucario at least is semi-humanoid and has an interesting design that doesn't resemble an amoeba. Besides he looks wolf-like, so that outta satisfy the Furries who want wolf/crystal.)
Why would they add another Pokemon instead of Wolf or Crystal?
 

FlipTroopa

Smash Lord
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,308
Location
Flip's Pad
Okay, look. I was gonna keep quiet, but I guess I'll have to throw my ginormous ego and weight into the ring too :laugh:

Here's the major franchises, all already repped in 64/Melee:

Super Mario Bros./Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Legend of Zelda
Metroid
F-Zero
Mother
Pokemon
Star Fox
Fire Emblem

On top of that, Melee saw the addition of a few retro characters:

Ice Climber
Game and Watch

Now, first, before I get ahead of myself... Retro in this case, as far as Smash Bros. and Sakurai are concerned, refers to early NES/Arcade/Game and Watch era Nintendo. If you were to look at games like Excitebike, Ice Climber, Balloon Fight, etc., they were all arcade titles as well as launch games for the NES, all copyrighted 1984. Compare this to titles such as Super Mario Bros., Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Nazo no Murasame, Punch-Out, etc., which range from 1985 to 1987 (for their first titles, anyways). The difference is this: the games that were released pre-Super Mario Bros. were one-shots. Simple, addictive, arcade style games. The ones post, and including, SMB were intended to be longer, drawn-out games, something that would be better suited for a console (not a quarter eater). In other words, stuff that was released in 1985 and on is much more fleshed out, and much greater franchise material. Essentially, it's not "retro."

Now that that's done away with... The "new" franchises being introduced in Brawl so far are as follows:

Kid Icarus
Wario Land/Ware

Now these are not by a longshot the total representation of ALL the possible series/franchises Nintendo has amassed over the years, nor all their retro possibilities. But if we were to take all those into consideration, that's a LOOOOT of characters. So Sakurai and his team obviously have limits. If we look at SSB64 and Melee, there's somewhat of a ratio between characters. The franchises obviously have more characters than the retros, who seem to be "one-shot" deals in of themselves; there are only two in Melee, and none in the original. As far as the franchises go, it would seem that the less frequent or popular franchises get fewer characters, or, rather, the more popular and established franchises carry the bulk. We saw this. Even in the original, Mario and Pokemon had the most fighters, and in Melee are joined by Fire Emblem, Star Fox, and Zelda.

Since Melee's release, there has been a span of FIVE years. People forget that Melee was, essentially, a launch for the Cube, meaning it ran entirely just off the N64 and BACK. So Brawl has to take into account: 1. The entire lifespan of the Cube; 2. Essentially the entire lifespan of the GBA; and 3. The beginning of the DS's lifespan. There's a LOT of ground to cover in those five years. The Marioverse has expanded considerably, we've seen 4 new Zelda titles (and two more will be released BEFORE Brawl), Pokemon will have progressed TWO generations before Brawl hits the shelves, Metroid has revived in full force as top franchise for the company, Star Fox has seen THREE games and a slew of new characters, Fire Emblem went international, Mother 3 actually released, F-Zero saw another massive title, Retro titles are suddenly hip again, etc. etc. etc.

That's a ton of stuff to take into consideration. Not to mention the NEW games that have released. Pikmin was pre-Melee, but only picked up after Melee, and gained a sequel. Drill Dozer, Meteos, Electroplankton, Nintendogs, Band Brothers, blah blah blah... Five years changed a lot of things for Nintendo.

Hell, the Wii! Brawl will be an early title for the Wii, but even by its release we will have a new main Mario title and a new Metroid Prime! Yoshi's Island 2, Star Fox Command, Wii Sports... geez. And then the Virtual Console! Nintendo actually has the rights to distribute Sega and Hudson games digitally through the console itself. That gives them access to hundreds of Genesis and TurboGrafx games, and a ton more potentiality for characters in a Smash game.

So what am I getting at, exactly? That this is a lot more daunting than we could ever imagine.

There's soooo much to consider. So expect it to take a while. Expect there to be stunning upsets. But also expect stunning surprises. Or just plain stuns. This will be the end all be all greatest game for the Wii at the time of its release, and potentially across all consoles. Sakurai has a LOT riding on his shoulders.

So if the roster is 40 characters, that's chicken scratch. That's nothing. And there's so much everything to include.

So I guess what it breaks down to, in the end, is this... As far as the roster goes, do you guys think Sakurai will settle for updating already repped franchises? Or do you think he will respect Nintendo's "new" history, and include new or nonrepped franchises, along with retro characters? There's a lot of easy and clever options along either path. Just picking the popular franchises to finish off the roster alone will do it. But so will going along with unheard of characters.

This... will be an incredible game. Just believe in that, and don't worry. They will make it wonderful.
 

Zombie Cola

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
779
what is so good about Olimar? He just a guy in a space suit with Pikmin. Then again that's my feeling, I can always beat him up, but I don't understand his popularity, I will admit Pikmin is very innovative, but Olimar just doesn't cut it for a worthy fighter to me.

And I really think Ice Climbers will be dropped. or at least have been replaced by Pit.

I reckon Ridley would be kind of weird cause he's actually a bat, and most of the times he could just fly back on, which gives anyone a total advantage. I would rather have him in an event match. And have anyone verse him.

Sonic isn't just popular in the US, He's quite popular everywhere. He may be the most popular in the US. But i've been to Europe and he is quite favourable, even in the UK, he is a favourite, even in Australia, more girls remember Sonic then Mario.

As for Roy and Marth, I keep on having a feeling they're cut, but due to FE popularity growing, and it showing up around the world. I say Marth and Roy could stick around, and maybe 2 others could join the fray. I reckon Ike is a very good candidate, and a Sage is bound to be included. To be honest I want Hector, Lyn and Eliwood from Blazing Sword.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said "there were going to be some brutal cuts. But whatever the case if the cuts gave good replacements, then i'm sure all could be forgiven.

I think we'll have details of the first cut in just 10 days though with the Liepzig Games Convention, and Nintendo pronmising Wii content. I also think we'll have our second third party character announced. I really reckon they should reveal it to be Sonic, that that would get his specualtion and make more people think, now that's Sonic's in who could make the last cut.

First off, Ridley is NOT a bat, he's a pterodactyl, secondly, sorry man, but Mario is more a household name than Sonic, and WTF does "more girls" have to do with anything?! The whole ridley flying thing could EASILY be balanced, give him only three wing flaps, like a triple jump, or make him hover like Peach. Use your imagination, and by the way look at the upper left hand corner of your screen there, keep going...scroll up a bit c'mon the VEEEEERY top, yeah that's metaknight, and those aren't tumors on his back chief, those are WINGS, you might take notice of the fact that PIT has them too.
 

JPW

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
903
Location
Sydney, Australia
well someone's in an angry mood.

first of all Ridley. I should of known he was a Pterodactyl, but i'm a new Metroid Prime fan, and Pterodactyls weren't exactly my favourite dinosaurs. But i always though Ridley was like a big bat. So i'm sorry.
Metaknight - does actually have wings. I saw the trailer(best trailer ever for a ninty game by the way), so I never noticed that. Same with Pit. I'll admit I was wrong. I guess what I couldn't accept about Ridley is he is more of a bird, more of an animal form then the rest of characters.
What I mean Fox is a Fox, but he still stands up, and works like a human, Falco is a Falcon, but he still stands up and works like a human, and so forth. I guess Ridley just felt weird, I never said I didn't want him in SB, I never ragged him out, I just couldn't imagine him as a fighter. I saw him more as a boss opportunity, and my pushing of an event match proves that.

Sonic. Our thread starter said Sonic was popular in USA. And just said that. I know Mario is more popular then Sonic will ever be. With Sonic's pushing I realised I was on thin ice, but I was just trying to say, Sonic isn't just famous in the USA. HE's famous around the world too, and most girls recognise him better then Mario. And I remember somehwere Nintendo claiming they have always wanted to reach the female market, and wait what was the first coulour of the Gamecube, and what does the gamecube actually look like when you think about it. Besides a Cube and a jack in the box. What does that handle on the back say to you. Nonetheless the female market i'm sure is very important to the nintendo market. I'm not ragging on the GCN, great machine, but Nintendo could of done something about the actual look so it could appeal to a wider audience better. I know people say "You can't judge a book by it's cover." But in this gaming age/generation "who is actually reading the book."
 

SSJ4Kazuki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
2,605
Location
UK (Edinburgh, Scotland)
I say the CHARACTER roster doesn't need to be filled up with the 5 years
since Melee's release, but rather have the stages, items, music (And maybe even COSTUME)
roster to be filled up with these. E.G. Captain Falcon getting a Mach Rider Costume
and a change of voice, Pikmin Stage, a real TON of Pokemon available from pokeballs
spanning 4 generations (At least 100), Ouendan cheer squad item, the 6 different
Nintendog kinds to come from the Nintendog item, many other simply groundbreaking
titles to make it in, like Bust a move, Tetris stage, Official Pac-Man costume for Kirby, Sonic the Hedgehog as a character, an Advance wars character AND/OR stage, Most definitely Advance wars music, Marth hath been forsaken, so he must get 2 stages for Brawl (Like Ness in melee) Lucario should be in, Snake's rocket launchers making it into the item roster, Takamaru for Brawl, Ganbare Goemon as that random WTF character, Klonoa represents Namco, Megaman as a semi-clone of Samus without the Zero Suit, Krystal for Brawl (Could work), Fox's reflector (shine) as an item, a RANDOM Wario ware stage, with about 20 of the best minigames that go on at random in the BG, and interact with the stage and characters, and RAYMAN music, or at least as a costume for Sukapon so Sukapon has 1/2 Rayman moves and Rayman has 1/2 sukapon moves, Rayman music from Rayman's new Wii game, Mother 3 music, an interactive music-style ElectroPlankton stage, dunno, some kind of item from Drill Dozer, and at random, in the Tertis stage, the music changes, and it goes all meteos, and you have to avoid being blasted out into space by the rocket blocks, A Final Fantasy stage (On top of Cid's airship from Final Fantasy 10) chuck some moogles and Cactuar, maybe even Sin occasionally firing Sinspawn onto the stage, Mute city should be adapted to F-Zero GX mute city, with the purple and the Night time, Sonic's stage could alternatively have NiGHTS music, and finally, over 1000 trophies from throughout videogame history.
 

FlipTroopa

Smash Lord
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,308
Location
Flip's Pad
They are not going to do anything outside Nintendo OTHER THAN the three third party characters, who will likely not even get further than their own trophy and a stage and a track of music. I really really REALLY doubt Sakurai and his team are going to waste their time with trophies of LOL EVERY SONIC CHARACTER EVER, when they could just as easily just making a frigging Sonic trophy and THAT WOULD BE IT. This is still by and large a NINTENDO GAME. It's only by special request that they are placing in it third party characters. SAKURAI EVEN SAID HIMSELF: Look, I am only putting 3 3rd party fighters TOTAL, and they are limited to having apepared ON NINTENDO CONSOLES, and I will not disappoint you or go overboard and limit the amount of INTERESTING AND UNIQUE NINTENDO CHARACTERS I could place in the game.

How hard is that to understand? How hard is it to understand that just because Megaman got his start on the NES doesn't make him a Nintendo character? Or that Geno belongs to Square? Or that Sonic's MAJOR TITLE FOR THIS GENERATION IN ON THE ****ING XBOX360, NOT THE WII. This is NINTENDO ALL-STAR SMASH, not VIDEO GAME HISTORY FUN FUN FUN or whatever the hell they would call it. Snake was a special request. Sonic, Pacman, Bonk, whoever the ****... THEY'LL BE SPECIAL REQUESTS TOO. It's not like Sakurai is going around to different companies and saying LOL I WANT YOUR CHARACTER IN MY GAME. He's not. Nintendo would not ****ing allow that. It's not good business!

WHY WOULD YOU ADVERTISE FOR THE OPPOSITION?! WHY WOULD YOU INCLUDE CLOUD WHEN THE SON***** HAS ONLY APPEARED IN ONE VERY VERY CRAPPY GBA GAME?! AND HIS MOST FAMOUS TITLES ARE ON THE RIVAL CONSOLE?!

I would expect having to explain this crap on Gamefaqs, but HERE? ...I'm sorry.
 

icymatt

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,154
Or that Geno belongs to Square?
Geno is an anomoly, because while his rights belong to Square, he is technically a Mario character, and really shouldn't count as a 3rd party character(unless they decide to use him as a 'cheater'.) Plus, considering the support he has from fans, they may just request him.
 

thedudley

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
19
Location
My face in your a**, i mean your a** in my face, w
Dude, no. What I was saying is that she isn't an original "character," but could be an original "fighter." She's still Samus, just without the armor. So it's also possible Sakurai meant that "this isn't a pure addition.... BECAUSE this isn't a 'new' character"
you might want to keep in mind that the whole blurb is translated from japanese. it will be vague and unspecific because it was originally written by sakurai in japanese.

with a little bit of reading between the lines, it is fairly obvious that zamus will be like zelda/sheik. why would he mention that samus will remove her power suit under certain conditions? wouldn't he just say that zamus is another version of samus with different attributes.

also, we have to look at a history of making two in one characters, which by the way happens to be a very popular character, it only stands to reason that they would create more, and Samus has turned out to be a very popular character and an easy one to stem a character off of. with the whip and speed increases (ala sheik vs. zelda) it seems that there are a several similarities to the zelda/sheik character.

These two things combined with a japanese translation and the sentence, "Rather, under certain conditions, Samus will "remove" her Power Suit." come together to create too many coincidences for this to be two separate characters on the selection screen.

do you consider pichu a transformation of pikachu? nope, just a clone with one difference. in fact that goes the other way in the transformation direction.

because Dr. Mario is a clone with some minor changes and not an entirely new character, that analogy doesn't work. Zamus is probably going to be similar to sheik with the whip and speed at the very least. the gun replacing the needles wouldn't be a stretch. when they added Dr. MArio, they didn't say, this isn't a new character addition, rather, under certain conditions, mario will were a doctors outfit and throw pills. he's just some weird alternate reality mario who managed to move from plumber to doctor with very little training.

i believe it was 5 years after super mario bros was released. boy he went through med school quick.

anyways, your analogy doesn't work and thus your argument is flawed. i have presented a light amount of evidence that topples your argument, and if you'd like me to go further i can, but choose not to because of spite. in either case zamus/samus will have to be considered 2 characters because of their differences. and the number is only 26 characters because sheik is already considered a seperate character. two rows of nine one row of seven equals 25.

by the way i like the character list though i hope there's more, or at the very least, downloads.
 

FlipTroopa

Smash Lord
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,308
Location
Flip's Pad
you might want to keep in mind that the whole blurb is translated from japanese. it will be vague and unspecific because it was originally written by sakurai in japanese.

with a little bit of reading between the lines, it is fairly obvious that zamus will be like zelda/sheik. why would he mention that samus will remove her power suit under certain conditions? wouldn't he just say that zamus is another version of samus with different attributes.

also, we have to look at a history of making two in one characters, which by the way happens to be a very popular character, it only stands to reason that they would create more, and Samus has turned out to be a very popular character and an easy one to stem a character off of. with the whip and speed increases (ala sheik vs. zelda) it seems that there are a several similarities to the zelda/sheik character.

These two things combined with a japanese translation and the sentence, "Rather, under certain conditions, Samus will "remove" her Power Suit." come together to create too many coincidences for this to be two separate characters on the selection screen.

do you consider pichu a transformation of pikachu? nope, just a clone with one difference. in fact that goes the other way in the transformation direction.

because Dr. Mario is a clone with some minor changes and not an entirely new character, that analogy doesn't work. Zamus is probably going to be similar to sheik with the whip and speed at the very least. the gun replacing the needles wouldn't be a stretch. when they added Dr. MArio, they didn't say, this isn't a new character addition, rather, under certain conditions, mario will were a doctors outfit and throw pills. he's just some weird alternate reality mario who managed to move from plumber to doctor with very little training.

i believe it was 5 years after super mario bros was released. boy he went through med school quick.

anyways, your analogy doesn't work and thus your argument is flawed. i have presented a light amount of evidence that topples your argument, and if you'd like me to go further i can, but choose not to because of spite. in either case zamus/samus will have to be considered 2 characters because of their differences. and the number is only 26 characters because sheik is already considered a seperate character. two rows of nine one row of seven equals 25.

by the way i like the character list though i hope there's more, or at the very least, downloads.
Uh... wow. Thanks for going on at length about the matter, but I already knew that side of the argument, and I know what I take from what was said can be skewed. But I'm a stubborn mule, and I'd rather Zamus not be a transformation, and so I will stick by it until it's 100% confirmed (and in English).
 

I T I

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
195
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Diddy, Dixie and K-Rool would all be unique additions, and give Donkey Kong some better representation.

Diddy and Dixie might actually make a good Ice Climbers 2.0 considering the movement scheme in their games...
 

Eaode

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,923
Location
Glen Cove/RIT, New York.
My list needs some updating as well lol.

Mario Franchise:
Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi (w/e, he's still a mario char.)
Baby Bowser/Shadow Mario

Zelda Franchise:
Link
TP Zelda (ie. no sheik)
Gannondorf
Majora/Skull Kid

Pokemon Franchise:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Lucario

Donkey Kong Franchise:
Donkey Kong
King K. Rool
Diddy Kong

Kirby Franchise:
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Metroid Franchise:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

F-Zero Franchise:
Capt. Falcon

Fire Emblem Franchise:
Marth
Ike?

Star Fox Franchise:
Fox
Falco
Krystal (Wolf could be a luigified fox, but Krystal is still more original)

Earthbound/Mother Franchise:
Ness
(No idea, haven't played these either)

Stand Alone:
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Pit
Captain Olimar

3rd Party:
Snake
Sonic
Geno


That's 39 Total. I could see one more FE character bringing it up to 40.
 

SSJ4Kazuki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
2,605
Location
UK (Edinburgh, Scotland)
And HEEERE's Mine! Cos I'm just like... So famous...

Mario Franchise:
Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi (w/e, he's still a mario char.)
Baby Bowser (NO SHADOW MARIO)
Geno I don't exactly want Geno in, but who am I to
argue with the majority.

Zelda Franchise:
Link
TP Zelda (ie. no sheik)
Gannondorf
(Possibly Skull Kid)
Majora You're CUT
Celda Link You're in

Pokemon Franchise:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo (Massive improvements needed here...)
Lucario

Donkey Kong Franchise:
Donkey Kong
King K. Rool No, just no.
Diddy Kong Hell Yes!

Kirby Franchise:
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Metroid Franchise:
Samus <--> Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

F-Zero Franchise:
Capt. Falcon

Fire Emblem Franchise:
Marth (With a possible Ike costume)
Sigurd
Daein

Star Fox Franchise:
Fox
Falco
Krystal RUBBISH!
Wolf O' Donnel Who DOESN'T want Wolf!

Earthbound/Mother Franchise:
Ness (with Lucas costume as well)
Duster
Flint

Stand Alone:
Mr. Game & Watch Maybe they should teh Die
Ice Climbers ^^
Captain Olimar ^^
Takamaru
Ray 01
M-09

Pit

Konami:
Snake
(Possibly Goemon)

Sega:
Sonic

Capcom:
Megaman
(Possibly Phoenix Wright or Viewtiful Joe)

Namco (Unlikely):
Pac-Man costume for Kirby
Klonoa?
 
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