Squeezing it all in: 40 characters is less than it seems.

[Eaode]

Luigi is not a clone, nuff said. 3 of his moves are the same, and they work VERY differently.

 

[kaid]

Luigi is not a clone, nuff said. 3 of his moves are the same, and they work VERY differently.

I never said he was. He does have 3 B moves the same, though, which was too similar for that example list.

 

[Eaode]

I was never refering specifically to you, I was attempting to dissolve the situation.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

My list as gone through many twists and turns. I have actually come up quite under 40 characters. This is because I think 35 is more reasonable if we don't want clones. I was also quite ruthless when getting rid of old characters. The way I see it, if you want to play as Game & Watch (a character that were cool and unique, but got most of his current notoriety FROM Smash Bros.) You can just pop the Melee disc in your Wii. No biggie.

Anyway, here goes:

1) Mario
2) Luigi (Further Luigified)
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Toad
6) Yoshi
7) Wario

8) Link, Hero of Time
9) Ganondorf (Luigified)
10) Link, Hero of Winds (Not a clone)
11) Zelda/Sheik

12) Pikachu
13) Mewtwo
14) Pokemon Trainer (using starters as B-moves)
15) JigglyPuff

16) Samuz/Zero Suit Samus
17) Ridley
18) Dark Samus (Not a clone)

19) Kirby
20) MetaKnight

21) Donkey Kong
22) Diddy Kong

23) Fox
24) Krystal

25) Marth
26) Hector

27) Ness
28) Olimar
29) Captain Falcoln
30) Little Mac
31) Ice Climbers
32) Pit

33) Sonic
34) Megaman
35) Snake

That leaves room for five characters, but I'm pretty sure they'd end up being clones. Still one clone to seven originals isn't a bad ratio. But I'm in favor of an alternate costume system so that the developers have more time to spend on things other than characters.

Considering the fact I can think of 5 unique fighters of the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Sakurai won't think of clones to fill up the five spaces, especially with the suggestions in the poll at his disposal

 

[Eaode]

Did I already post a list on this thread?? I don't remember. Well here I go anyway.

Mario Franchise:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi
Wario
Toad

Zelda Franchise:
Link
Zelda
Gannondorf
Skull Kid/Majora, or Vaati

Metroid Franchise:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley

Pokemon Franchise:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Lucario
Deoxys

Kirby Franchise:
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Donkey Kong Franchise:
DK
Diddy Kong (luigified DK)
King K. Rool

Star Fox Franchise:
Fox
Falco
Krystal
Wolf (Luigified Fox)

Mother Franchise:
Ness
Lucas

Fire Emblem Franchise:
Marth
Ike

F-Zero Franchise:
Captain Falcon

Stand Alone/Retro
Pit
Ice Climbers
Captain Olimar

Third Party:
Snake
Geno
Mega Man

Characters cut: Doc, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Mr. Game and Watch. I agree with Enferris about G&W.

 

[FlipTroopa]

It's funny watching people who aren't hardcore Nintendo fans or Smash addicts playing the game, and who they pick. They don't seem to notice the cloniness, just that "oh, he's like Mario but slower, okay." To them, it's a non-issue. Of course, the clones tend to get picked less than the regular characters (save Falco and Roy, whom every n00bs thinks are the greatest characters EVER XD)

Anyways, Luigi was WAAAY too clonish in Melee. His A attacks are essentially all the same, save for his Fair, Triple A, and Smash. And lest we forget the total and utter laziness in his design. He's just a stretched Mario with the voice a pitch higher. Wtf? Did Sakurai and his team ever play Mario Kart or Tennis or Golf? Did they know that Luigi actually has little intricacies that make him NOT a stretched out Mario? That he has HIS OWN VOICE? Part of the reason I was always very very bothered by Luigi's inclusion in Melee. It just seems so rushed.

 

[Masque]

Anyways, Luigi was WAAAY too clonish in Melee. His A attacks are essentially all the same, save for his Fair, Triple A, and Smash. And lest we forget the total and utter laziness in his design. He's just a stretched Mario with the voice a pitch higher. Wtf? Did Sakurai and his team ever play Mario Kart or Tennis or Golf? Did they know that Luigi actually has little intricacies that make him NOT a stretched out Mario? That he has HIS OWN VOICE? Part of the reason I was always very very bothered by Luigi's inclusion in Melee. It just seems so rushed.

Or Mansion.

 

[FlipTroopa]

Or Mansion.

Haha. Another great example nonetheless XD

 

[icymatt]

Mario and Luigi sharing some moves just makes sense, though. I just does. The voices never bothered me, really. It's not like expecting a ton of dialogue in Smash Bros.

Should they develop Luigi's uniqueness further? Sure, as long as he keeps his Fireball and Super Jump Punch(the essential Mario Bros. moves), I'm fine with whatever else they change.

People should just remember: Luigi is as essential to Smash Bros. as any other character.

 

[Zombie Cola]

I always thought he was way too clony too, and the fact that his voice is just Mario's voice speeded up is just plain annoying. I like to see purely original movesets, with nothing shared whatsoever.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

FlipTroopa, Roy is WAAAY cooler than Marth. So those "n00bs" were right about one thing. Melee was the only game Marth actually wore PANTS, everywhere else he wears MINI SKIRTS. Not even including THE TIARA that he wears. Also, Roy's sword is fire-imbued, elemental blades are always cooler than sharp pieces of metal.

Luigi I can see becoming more unique than he is now, but not to a serious degree. I feel he'll still have mostly the same moves, but like Dair in Melee, same animation with different effect. Mario's Dair is a drill, whereas Luigi's is a one-hit spike/meteor [not sure which] effect. I think the same will happen when he returns to Brawl.

And for some reason, he'll still be an unlockable character. It still baffles me how Bowser and Zelda/Shiek can be starters with Luigi unlockable....only reason is to stick to the tradition from Smash64.

 

[EnFerris]

Considering the fact I can think of 5 unique fighters of the top of my head, I'm pretty sure Sakurai won't think of clones to fill up the five spaces, especially with the suggestions in the poll at his disposal

It's not a matter of whether Sakurai can think them up. I've thought of a good 65 original characters. I, myself, would fill the five in with Balloon Fighter, Chibi-Robo, Ray 01, Skull Kid and King Dedede.


It's a matter of time. Does Sakurai have TIME to develop forty original characters? Most of the clones in Melee were designed so due to time constraints.
"Ganon's Sword is going to own!"
"Uhh, Sakurai? The games due out in a week."
"Oh crap, well he kinda looks like C. Falcoln..."

Mario and Luigi sharing some moves just makes sense, though. I just does. The voices never bothered me, really. It's not like expecting a ton of dialogue in Smash Bros.

Should they develop Luigi's uniqueness further? Sure, as long as he keeps his Fireball and Super Jump Punch(the essential Mario Bros. moves), I'm fine with whatever else they change.

People should just remember: Luigi is as essential to Smash Bros. as any other character.

What a coincidence, those were the only moves in my proposed moveset that would stay the same.
Thirty five will be plenty. There's always the next installment, which hopefully will come sooner than Brawl did and will contain Midna and M-09.

 

[kaid]

FlipTroopa, Roy is WAAAY cooler than Marth. So those "n00bs" were right about one thing. Melee was the only game Marth actually wore PANTS, everywhere else he wears MINI SKIRTS.

I've never played FE, but it sounds like you're describing a tunic, like what Link wears. A shirt so long it doubles as a dress.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

I've never played FE, but it sounds like you're describing a tunic, like what Link wears. A shirt so long it doubles as a dress.

No, I KNOW what a tunic is, and Marth DEFINITELY wears a mini skirt.

 

[kaid]

Pic please?

 

[Zombie Cola]

He's not lying.. though it's never been in a US release.

 

[Pablo18]

wow he looks really gayy

 

[kaid]

It's a Tunic. a short one, but a tunic. (Note it's the exact same color as his "shirt".)

it must be warmer there than in Hyrule... link wears stockings, too.

 

[Pablo18]

i feel that i would like to see bowser become a way better character, i personally think that he should be the strongest of all villans in brawl, to me the main character should be the best all-around hero and his mortal enemy should be the same not exactly all-around since its bowser he should be the best villan.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Marth is wearing the same thing as link in that pic. Just add a cape and take off his pantyhose, you got Marth.

 

[Black/Light]

^^^ What are you talking about? Are you saying he should be the best bad guy because he from Mario? Thats like saying Mario should be the best good guy character. . . .

 

[Pablo18]

^^^ What are you talking about? Are you saying he should be the best bad guy because he from Mario? Thats like saying Mario should be the best good guy character. . . .

no im saying that mario should be one of the best good guy character because he is the main character and that bowser should be the one of the best bad guys because he is marios main rival, but thats just cause im a die hard mario fan.

 

[Diddy Kong]

no im saying that mario should be one of the best good guy character because he is the main character and that bowser should be the one of the best bad guys because he is marios main rival, but thats just cause im a die hard mario fan.

No Mario shouldnt be the best character in the game. The character Mario was always about balance. If he where to be the best character this would break that balance you see?

Also Bowser's moveset is good as it is. It really suits him. Only perhaps replace his fire breath for a fire ball move and a bit more weight would help but I think he's pretty well made as he is now although he's almost bottom tier.

Ohhh and 40 characters is already pretty much. However I dont agree with Tom Nook and the Custom Robo character. Maybe its just because I havent played both games but as far as I know, Custom Robo isnt that well known. Animal Crossing is, but I cant see Tom Nook fight... He would make a nice cameo in a Animal Crossing stage perhaps? I would replace these characters by Isaac from Golden Sun and Falco. Falco shouldnt've been cutted from that list anyways.

 

[Black/Light]

Animal Crossing is, but I cant see Tom Nook fight... He would make a nice cameo in a Animal Crossing stage perhaps? I would replace these characters by Isaac from Golden Sun and Falco. Falco shouldnt've been cutted from that list anyways.

I Agree about AC cameo. Maybe he could walk around with a bag of like 3 items and he will either drops them well walking or drops them once hes attacked?

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

40 chars eh! ill try that

Mario
Luigi(vacuum)
Peach(daisy as a costume)( Toad still B attack)
Bowser
Bowser jr/Shadow Mario
Paper Mario
Samus(Turns into Zero suit after smash for those who dont know)
Dark Samus
Ridley(Woot Woot)
Pikachu
JigglyPuff
Blazeiken
Lucario
Yoshi
Baby Maio and Baby Luigi
Kirby
Meta-Knight
King DeDeDe
Link
Wolf Link and Midna
CelShaded Link(only because of the rumor)
Zelda
Ganondorf/Ganon(ganondorf has his own move set)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K.Rool
Ike
Marth
Black Knight
Pit
Wario
Waluigi
Sanke
Sonic heros(yes sonic,tails and Knuckles as a group)
Metal Soinc
Mega Man
Tom Nook
Captian Falcon
Black Shadow
Captain Olemar

There we go a possible list(sonic i chose the team because i just did if you prefere sonic on his own tell me and ill change it if needed)If i did forget anyone that is possible tell.

 

[bluebomber22]

nice list kaid, with the exception of Deoxys you may have gotten it right on the nose

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

deoxys is a pokemon in a pokeball the offical site says that sorry all deoxys lovers

 

[Black/Light]

Deoxy=gone. . . .good (^_^).
Midna=Add to your list.
Geno=GTH off that list. . .
Number of characters IMO=40-45
Add a S-E character other than Geno and that make this list somewhat better.
(I see Mario-6/7 characters and Pokemon/LoZ-6 characters.)

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

Deoxy=gone. . . .good (^_^).
Midna=Add to your list.
Geno=GTH off that list. . .
Number of characters IMO=40-45
Add a S-E character other than Geno and that make this list somewhat better.
(I see Mario-6/7 characters and Pokemon/LoZ-6 characters.)

are you talking to me

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

I'm thinking around 30-34 characters in this game.

Also, assuming there is one character a week, one newcomer every 4th week, Ice Climbers and Game and Watch are in, AND Pichu, Y. Link, Roy, and Doc Mario are all cut(I know this is a lot of assumptions, but bare with me people), I made this little list:

Captain Falcon(July 30-August 3rd)
Metaknight(August 6-10)
Jigglypuff(August 13-17)
Peach(August 20-24)
Ganondorf(August 27-31))
Snake(September 3rd-7th)
Luigi(September 10-14)
Mewtwo(Sepcmber 17-21)
Marth(September 24-28)
Ness/Lucas(Oct 1-5)
Newcomer(Oct 8-12)
Newcomer/Ice Climbers (Oct 15-19)
Newcomer/Game and Watch (Oct 22-26)
Newcomer(Oct 29-November 2nd)
Newcomer(November 5-9)
Newcomer(November 12-16)
Newcomer(November 19-23)
Newcomer(November 26-30)
Sonic(Mon, December 3rd)

(the reasons the characters are on the certain dates is because these are my future guesses for the Brawl info contest thread XD)

Now this may sound a little farfetched, but if the updates follow a pattern of one character a week, and if Sakurai wants to reveal all characters before the game is released like rumors say, then we will end up with a healthy roster of 30-32 characters(based on if you believe he will update the week the game comes out, and you count ZSS as a seperate character). And, if you go by my logicof who's in and who's out(which, to say the least, isn't a smart thing to do), there are 18-20 Veterans, and about 12-15 Newcomers. Does this not sound like a reasonable character roster, or am I just looking way too much into this?(On second thought, don't answer that...)

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Toad (Luigified Peach clone)

Pikachu
Jiggs
Mewtwo (NO CHATSPEAK!)
Lucario

Link
Midna (with or without Wolf Link)
Zelda
Gannondorf (Gannon-Banned!)
Vaati

Kirby
Metaknight
Dedede (Luigified Kirby clone)

Fox
Wolf
Krystal
Falco (Luigified Fox clone)

Samus
Z.Samus
Ridley

DK
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool (Luigified Bowser clone)

Marth
Ike
Michiah (Luigified Vaati clone) OR the Black Knight (Luigified Ike clone)

Snake
Megaman (Most popular in Japan)
Sonic (Most popular in the USA)

Ness
Yoshi
Ice Climbers
Game and Watch
Captian Falcon

Andy (Advance Wars)
Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Wario (Warioware)
Olimar (Pikmn)
Ray Mk 1 (Custom Robo)
[Insert some other unrepresented franchise here]

That is a far more likely list, in my opinion. Yea, it goes over your fourty limit, but I'm expecting between fourty and fifty characters.

As you can see, I also have several clones. I see no reason to NOT include clones. They add to the roster of characters and (as seen in Falcon/Ganondorf) they offer movesets with enough alterations to give them completely different playstyles.

Jigglypuff(August 13-17)
Ganondorf(August 27-31))
Snake(September 3rd-7th)
Luigi(September 10-14)
Mewtwo(Sepcmber 17-21)
Sonic(Mon, December 3rd)

Sakurai has confirmed that all guest characters will be hidden.
Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Luigi are all likely to be hidden. (Using previous game(s) as reference.)

I doubt we'll be given profiles on hidden characters until after the game has launched or a little before that.

 

[Ridley FTB!!!]

im sure someone said this already but Sakurai will reveil all hidden char because people will be overloading the internet when it comes out with the hidden chars and Sakurai proberly wants the pleasure himself but then again mabye not

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

im sure someone said this already but Sakurai will reveil all hidden char because people will be overloading the internet when it comes out with the hidden chars and Sakurai proberly wants the pleasure himself but then again mabye not

Would it kill you to use some grammar? *Hint: The correct answer is NOT yes.*

Anyways...

Yes, I believe that Sakurai will post the entire roster list up...on the day the game is released.

 

[SmashChu]

Ok, my two cents time.

First, I agree with Fliptroppa. I feel that 40 is much. But, Melee had a lot of limites. There is a reason most launch titles suck. They get far less then the 18 months needed to make the average game. I must say they did a good job for so little time. I have heard they only had 10 months to develop Melee, which makes sences as development woul have started early 2001, which is brobobly when they got the dev. kits. So, it's expected that there will be some limits.

I beleive Brawl started development around October of 05. I think they probobly got down to buisness arounf Dec-Jan, maybe later(but the fact they had a trailer, screenshots, and some developed characters, they were probobly in a good stages of development. Also, they have more developers as well as more reasorces. And since most of the characters retain thier old moveset, this will cut their development(beside making some new modles)

However, I feel that 40 is much. 30-35 is a better bet. Heeres my quick list

Mario
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach

Donkey Kong
DK
Diddy

Zelda
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf

Metroid
Samus
Ridley

Yoshi
Yoshi

Kirby
Kirby
K. Dedede
Meta-Knight

Staffox
Fox
Falco
Krystal

Pokemon
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Lucario

F-Zero
C. Falcon

Earthbound
Ness
Lucas

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike(or Sigurd. It is his dream character)

Kid Icarus
Pit

Wario
Wario

Others
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
Little Mac
Takamaru

3rd Party
Snkae
Sonic
Mega Man

I ended with 36(one over my limit). However, I tried to make everyone happy. Added Diddy, Krystal, Ike, Lucas, Lucario, Little Mac, Takamaru, Sonic and Mega Man.

This, is onew of the flaws to pleasing fans. I feel Diddy, Dedede and Little Mac are the most importain. They are my favorite so I may be a bit biased. I added Little Mac since I feel the franchise needs some representation since of how big of a game it was in it's time, and still is in the heart of gamers. I aslo kepts all but four characters. I feel some may be replaces. Mostly Ness for Lucas(but I hope that is not the case), and of course, I think Sonic will be the only other 3rd party character.

I think Sakurai will add the nessesities. I am only hoping for Diddy, Dedede and Little Mac. Alll the others are bonuses. I know lots of people are going to be disapointed. Well, guess what, suck it up. The man is trying to make a great game. It's hard to please everyone with such a large back catolog of characters. My bets are only on Diddy and Dedede for making it in(Little Mac I'm hoping for, but not as sure of). I think we'll love the game, but if your favortie character didn't get in, that means that someone else's did. Your not alone. People rooting for Deoxys and Goro are already at a lose. It's just how this game works.

 

[Modest_Egoist]

This is my list. It only has 39 characters, so there's room for one more, I'm just not sure who else I want to add. This would be a good range.

Mushroom Kingdom: Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser

WarioWare: Wario, Mona, Kat & Ana

DK: DK, Diddy, Dixie

FE: Marth, Lyndis

Pokemon: Mewtwo, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario

Yoshi: Yoshi

Starfox: Fox, Krystal, Wolf, Falco (redone)

Legend of Zelda: Ganon (redone), Link, Zelda, Midna

Metroid: Samus, Zamus, Weavel, Ridley

F-Zero: Capt. Falcon

Ice Climbers: Ice Climbers

Kirby: Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede

Metal Gear: Snake

Kid Icarus: Pit

Earthbound: Ness

Sonic the Hedgehog: Sonic

 

[goodkid]

I'm expecting 40-50. If this smash is to last for a while, 40-50 is a better bet to please all the fans. 30-40 just seems to small. 40-50 is realistic

Mario Series 5
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.

Wario Ware 2
Wario
Waluigi

DK Series 3
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K.

Yoshi Series 1
Yoshi

Fire Emblem 5
Marth
Ike
Hector
Black Knight
Lyn

Pokemon 4
Pikachu
JigglyPuff
Mewtwo
Lucario

Starfox 4
Fox McCloud
Falco
Krystal
Wolf

Kirby Series 3
Kirby
MetaKnight
King DeDe

Zelda Series 4
Link
Zelda
Ganon
Midna

Metroid Series 3
Samus/Zero Suit
Ridley
Sylux? or another hunter

F-Zero 2
Captain Falcon
Jody Summer

Earthbound 1
Ness

Kid Icarus 1
Pit

Pikmin 1
Captain Olimar

Animal Crossing
?

Custom Robo 1
Ray 1

Third Party 3
Snake
Megaman
Sonic

Clones are okay: Mario and Luigi are to Fox and Falco

The boot: IC, Pichu, Roy, Dr. Mario, Sheik(Zero Suit is the new)

44 overall, but I still think there will be more.

 

[DonkeySmasher]

this challenge is already on four threads

but it's still fun

Mushroom Kingdom
1. Mario: confirmed
2. Luigi: is anyone doubting this? (vaccum for maybe one or two attacks and fs)
3. Bowser: confirmed
4. Peach: duh (also might have moves in Super princess)
5. Bowser JR.: he might be new and just a son but he is now main villains in two mario games also he's like in every sport game now
6. Paper mario: first of all 6 mario characters in a 40 character list is not too much because this series is nintendo's great mascot. secondly, paper mario might be another mario but he can still be very original with his special techniques, friends, and pixels

Hyrule
7. Link: confirmed
8. Zelda: confirmed
9. Ganandorf(sword or no sword): seriously do i need to argue
10. CS Link: i'll give him 50/50 if he's in not a clone
11. Midna (most probable is on wolf link form): she's new and in one game but is the main character in TP which is the game LOZ is looking toward

Pokemon
12. Pikachu: confirmed
13. Jigglypuff: second most popular in japan and been in since 64
14. Mewtwo: only "villainous" Pokemon just make him a bit better
15. Lucario: popular is the way to get in smash if your a pokemon. he has it

Kongo Jungle
16. Dk: confirmed
17. Diddy: is tied for second in sakurai's poll, extremely popular, second most important kong
18. King K Rool: Sakurai said he wanted more villains so here you go

Starfox
19. Fox: confirmed
20. Krystal: Sakurai also wants more females. also popular
21. Wolf: same as K rool

Dreamland
22. Kirby: confirmed
23. Meta: Confirmed
24. Dedede: is a villain, #1 in sakurai's poll, sakurai's creation

Fire Emblem
25. Ike: new Fe hero and in upcoming game
26. Marth: first FE hero

Metroid
27. Samus/Zamus: confirmed (believe zamus can be used for holding a)
28. Ridley: tied for #2 in poll, is samus's nemesis, popular, do i need more reasons?

Single Representatives
29. Yoshi: confirmed
30. Wario: confirmed
31. Pit: confirmed
32. Falcon: semi confirmed and in original
33. Ness/Lucas: one form is certain only reasoning for Lucas is that he was supposed to be in melee to replace ness
34. Olimar: represents a budding new series in nintendo, can be very unique,
35. Mii: is representative of nintendo's new goal to casual audience
36. Mr. Resetti: i give him a plausible chance but i'm sticking with an AC representative for now, only char not in the stage
37. Retro character: sakurai wants to tie old with new, great way to make people surprised, characters possible are little mac, baloon fighter, and ROB

3rd party
38. Snake: confirmed
39. Sonic: seems reasonable and was nintendo's rival
40. Mega man: also a classic and is nintendoey enough

i however sadly see less then 40 characters
so my cut list goes in this order
1. Mr. Resetti
2. Mii
3. Paper mario
4. Cs link
5. King K rool

(35 is bare minimum)

 

[kaid]

...wow. This is a really old thread.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Yeah.. But I'm guessing he should take out Deoxys since... Obvious reasons? The list looks pretty good to me as well and a few others I've seen.. I know nothing about Fire Emblem though..

 

[Shuma]

Al you need to know is that you should Support Ike and the Black Knight.