Squeezing it all in: 40 characters is less than it seems.

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

All I meant was that I'm sticking with my idea that TP is just a skin change until new pics and vids come out revealing Link with the Gale Boomerang, which would be kinda cheap, imagine a moving PK Fire.

LukeFonFabre......I'm getting that game when it comes out....Anyway, we were talking about seeing Gale Boomerang in Brawl, not TP.

And the Wolf debate is what I'm saying about Celda too. They would be nice, but they don't have enough Oomph to grab one of the hottest things on the market these days.....a character slot on the Brawl roster.

 

[xianfeng]

You know they could have more than 40 characters if they have clones I know you're all thinking boo clones but they can be good this way we can 45 - 50 characters here are 10 characters that could be clones although they could be original as well.

Donkey Kong Jr from the Donkey Kong Franchise could be a clone of Donkey Kong with Nintendo screwing over all of rareware's work and changing their storyline nintendo has been pushing for DK jr to be a seperate character he could be revived here.

Princess Daisy from the Mario Franchise could be a clone of Peach. She was revived from Super Mario Land and has appeared on every Nintendo system apart from the SNES, she could make a Brawl debut as a clone here.

Wolf O'Donnel from the Starfox Franchise could be a clone of Fox. All though out of all my suggestions this one would easily be the most original he could be a clone as well, if this is how he has to be added then let it be.

Pachirisu from the Pokemon Franchise could be a clone of Pikachu. Pachirisu is an electric squirell from the 4th generation he would be like Pikachu minus the damaging him self part and because people are all "OMG U NEED 2 REP DA GENERATIONS!!!" Pachirisu could do 4th.

Black Shadow from the Fzero Franchise could be a clone of Captain Falcon. For some reason some people like this looser Joker wanna be over Samurai Goroh so well if he must be in he doesn't deserve to be original put him in as a clone.

Dark Samus from the Metroid Franchise could be a clone of Samus. Although she could be original she would also make an easy clone with their abilities being similar anyway this would be a way to add her.

Tom Nook from the Animal Crossing Franchise could be a clone of Peach. I discovered Tom would make a perfect Peach clone (apart from the gliding) in my Tom Nook thread, a little unorthadox but it could actually work.

Bowser Jr from the Mario Franchise could be a clone of Bowser. Although this guy could be vastly original with Shadow Mario and the paintbrush without them he would make a Bowser clone just faster and weaker.

Mew from the Pokemon Franchise could be a clone of Mewtwo. The Irony is delcious but Mew would make a perfect Mewtwo clone just turn his moves from purple to Pink and you have yourself a clone.

Nintendo from the Mother Franchise could be a clone of Ness. Ninten was the Hero of Mother 1 or Earthbound 0 and he had the same abilities as Ness so he could make a clone.

Well there are 10 possible clones think about it 50 characters with 10 of them clones or 40 characters with none of them clones.

 

[DokturSea]

That's so cool how you spoke up for all of mankind there, kaid. Funny, how I also, want Andross for Brawl. I'd also like Wolf and Krystal, too. I really don't care which of them gets added. Any would be cool.

 

[icymatt]

Yes, we've all seen the Gale Boomerang...but has it been confirmed that it is the only boomerang Link gets? And besides, they always like keeping Link's moves in line with the entire series, and not one game(that's why Ocarina Link never got anything specifically from his game.)

However, I will guarantee you that the next Zelda after Twilight(that isn't some sort of Majora's Mask-style sidestory) will be completely different from it. It's one of the hallmarks of the series.

 

[xianfeng]

There will be at least one cell shaded zelda on the Wii.

 

[Black/Light]

I don't think thats going to happen. I think that they will keep it to the hand-helds.

 

[Super_Cool]

That's so cool how you spoke up for all of mankind there, Super_Cool. Funny, how I also, want Andross for Brawl. I'd also like Wolf and Krystal, too. I really don't care which of them gets added. Any would be cool.

WTF. Kaid said that, not me. We have the same avatar.

 

[xianfeng]

I bet you there will be one on the wii, they wouldn't have stuck with Cellda for so many games (4 is it now) if it didn't sell so they would want it on their console.

 

[icymatt]

Why, though? WW was one of the prettiest games on the GC, and with the Wii another game in that style would be even more breathtaking.

More to the point: Miyamoto doesn't like making the Zeldas look the same in every game. Why do you think he chose to do a cel-shaded one in the first place?

 

[xianfeng]

I don't know but so far they have all been different Wind Waker the first Cellda game was heavily focused on Sailing which was it's unique point, Four Sword Adventures you had 3 other Links! there's it's unique point, The Minish Cap you had the shrinking /growing thing going on there that's it's unique point. So far from what we can tell about Phantom Hourglass it's a cross between OoT and WW. Point is they are all different and they all sell I expect more of them on the handhelds and at least one on the wii.

 

[Black/Light]

More to the point: Miyamoto doesn't like making the Zeldas look the same in every game. Why do you think he chose to do a cel-shaded one in the first place?

Right, I don't think he will keep going back to Cellda style. I think he will make a new sytle thats way different to TP but still not Cellda.

 

[xianfeng]

Isn't that Eiji Aounima guy in head of the Zelda Franchise now?

Any who what do you think of my clone theory.

You know they could have more than 40 characters if they have clones I know you're all thinking boo clones but they can be good this way we can 45 - 50 characters here are 10 characters that could be clones although they could be original as well.

Donkey Kong Jr from the Donkey Kong Franchise could be a clone of Donkey Kong with Nintendo screwing over all of rareware's work and changing their storyline nintendo has been pushing for DK jr to be a seperate character he could be revived here.

Princess Daisy from the Mario Franchise could be a clone of Peach. She was revived from Super Mario Land and has appeared on every Nintendo system apart from the SNES, she could make a Brawl debut as a clone here.

Wolf O'Donnel from the Starfox Franchise could be a clone of Fox. All though out of all my suggestions this one would easily be the most original he could be a clone as well, if this is how he has to be added then let it be.

Pachirisu from the Pokemon Franchise could be a clone of Pikachu. Pachirisu is an electric squirell from the 4th generation he would be like Pikachu minus the damaging him self part and because people are all "OMG U NEED 2 REP DA GENERATIONS!!!" Pachirisu could do 4th.

Black Shadow from the Fzero Franchise could be a clone of Captain Falcon. For some reason some people like this looser Joker wanna be over Samurai Goroh so well if he must be in he doesn't deserve to be original put him in as a clone.

Dark Samus from the Metroid Franchise could be a clone of Samus. Although she could be original she would also make an easy clone with their abilities being similar anyway this would be a way to add her.

Tom Nook from the Animal Crossing Franchise could be a clone of Peach. I discovered Tom would make a perfect Peach clone (apart from the gliding) in my Tom Nook thread, a little unorthadox but it could actually work.

Bowser Jr from the Mario Franchise could be a clone of Bowser. Although this guy could be vastly original with Shadow Mario and the paintbrush without them he would make a Bowser clone just faster and weaker.

Mew from the Pokemon Franchise could be a clone of Mewtwo. The Irony is delcious but Mew would make a perfect Mewtwo clone just turn his moves from purple to Pink and you have yourself a clone.

Nintendo from the Mother Franchise could be a clone of Ness. Ninten was the Hero of Mother 1 or Earthbound 0 and he had the same abilities as Ness so he could make a clone.

Well there are 10 possible clones think about it 50 characters with 10 of them clones or 40 characters with none of them clones.

 

[Masque]

Ehh...I'd far prefer just having original characters as opposed to more clones. This is especially true of the Pokémon characters - why keep using the same types over and over when there are 14 or so unused types? Just a thought.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

While I'd like Sakurai to make characters origional, I'm not totally against clones. The characters you've mentioned are all plausible (lol to the Mew clone irony).

 

[DokturSea]

WTF. Kaid said that, not me. We have the same avatar.

Sorry. I guess I should look at actual names instead of just avatars...

 

[xianfeng]

Ehh...I'd far prefer just having original characters as opposed to more clones. This is especially true of the Pokémon characters - why keep using the same types over and over when there are 14 or so unused types? Just a thought.

More clones = More Characters that's all I care about and I picture them all more like Captain Falcon, Ganondorf clones same moves completly different playing styles.

 

[kaid]

@ doktorsea: Alright, I exagerated a bit. But could you seriusly want andross to get in BEFORE wolf? And not as a floating-hands boss, but as a Cranky-Kong lookalike "scientist?" (which is what he's been suggesting)

 

[Shadow Calibur]

More clones = More Characters that's all I care about and I picture them all more like Captain Falcon, Ganondorf clones same moves completly different playing styles.

I'd prefer more characters as well, but we also have to take balance into consideration. It's gonna be tough balancing a king-sized roster, though. Having to give everyone a unique moveset, closing the gap between tiers, all that jazz.

And I don't want clones. Luigified fighters I can handle, but no clones. Clones never sat well with me.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Clones really must be done away with entirely, they take away from the fun of the game. If a character really, truly, DESERVES to be in SSBB, then said character deserves his/her own moveset.

 

[xianfeng]

What if they were like Captain Falcon / Ganondorf they played so differently it was hard to tell they were clones.

 

[Shadow Calibur]

What if they were like Captain Falcon / Ganondorf they played so differently it was hard to tell they were clones.

Even with THAT amount of difference, they'd still be clones. Just go down Luigi's path- a half-similar, half-unique moveset.

 

[xianfeng]

I suppose, but I still think 10 clones would be ok I mean come one 50 characters.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Yeah i agree, I main C. Falcon, and Ganon is one of my favorite Nintendo characters, when I saw that falcon had not only been cloned but that Ganon had been deprived of his own super gerudo moveset, I was appauled.

 

[Shadow Calibur]

I suppose, but I still think 10 clones would be ok I mean come one 50 characters.

NO. Not a single clone in Brawl. Luigified, yes. But clones... ugh. Never.

 

[xianfeng]

Why shut yourself off with clones the roster can go from 40 to 50

 

[GenG]

Why shut yourself off with clones the roster can go from 40 to 50

I don't care about numbers. I'd rather have 35 balanced characters than 50 rushed for showing numbers in the box of the game and purposes like that.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Clones are a marketing tool to gain extra publicity that this game doesn't need. Deep, original characters are all we need.

 

[greenblob]

Well, considering how much some characters changed from 64 to Melee, it'd be safe to assume that if one or more of the clones remain, they'd be automatically "Luigified" without deliberately doing something to change them.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Someone needs to make a poll about Melee's clones. Have just 2 options: 1 Original Character VS 6 Clones.

Come now, that's 6 whole characters. Truthfully, who REALLY thinks of Link and his playstyle when using Young Link. How are you going to do your "3 Fairs from a Short Hop" Marth tactic with Roy? You're not.

Even Doc, whose supposedly the most clone-y of all, plays different because of pill trajectories and such. I feel I'm playing with a whole different character, which is what most people should feel.

 

[Black/Light]

Clones really must be done away with entirely, they take away from the fun of the game. If a character really, truly, DESERVES to be in SSBB, then said character deserves his/her own moveset.

I completely agree. Like with Falcon and Ganon. You can see that Ganon was only a clone because his body type was the same as Falcon's BUT they really missed up his stats imo because I can't see why on earth would Ganon be that slow. (Not to even go into him not having his sword/ Magic/ a projectile attack and so-on)

They missed with his stats to make him different to Falcon and that shouldn't happen again. If they are good/ important enuff to get into brawl they, by all means, should get their own moves.

 

[Zombie Cola]

Someone needs to make a poll about Melee's clones. Have just 2 options: 1 Original Character VS 6 Clones.

Come now, that's 6 whole characters. Truthfully, who REALLY thinks of Link and his playstyle when using Young Link. How are you going to do your "3 Fairs from a Short Hop" Marth tactic with Roy? You're not.

Even Doc, whose supposedly the most clone-y of all, plays different because of pill trajectories and such. I feel I'm playing with a whole different character, which is what most people should feel.

I disagree entirely. When I use a clone, I feel as if I am playing with a dumbed down version of the real thing. Clones are a pointless part of the game, all they do is add more numbers to the roster, which, quite frankly, I would rather have a clean streamlined character select screen, chock-full of original movesets, each with their own pros and cons. I don't want 2 marios, each identical with one different attack, or a sluggish bruting C. Falcon wannabe with a couple different attacks. It's absolutley pointless, it takes up space that could (should) be reserved for fun new characters with something more to offer than a carbon copy of someone else.

 

[kaid]

If Sakurai was truely going for completely different movesets, it could well look like this:

Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario,
Pikachu, Mewtwo, Jigilypuff, Lucario, Deoxys,
Link, Gannondorf, Zelda, Midna/wolf,
Fox, Krystal, Kirby, Metaknight,
DK, Diddy kong, Samus/Zamus, Ridley,
Ice Climbers, Marth, Ness, Game and Watch,
Olimar, Captian Falcon, Tom Nook,
Geno, Sonic, Snake.

Even the Mario/Wario relationship is a bit close for comfort. Luigi and the clones would be right out.

*The above is, in no way, my current expectations for Brawl. It is how I feel the roster would look if uniqueness and significance mattered over everything else.

 

[Zombie Cola]

If Sakurai was truely going for completely different movesets, it could well look like this:

Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario,
Pikachu, Mewtwo, Jigilypuff, Lucario, Deoxys,
Link, Gannondorf, Zelda, Midna/wolf,
Fox, Krystal, Kirby, Metaknight,
DK, Diddy kong, Samus/Zamus, Ridley,
Ice Climbers, Marth, Ness, Game and Watch,
Olimar, Captian Falcon, Tom Nook,
Geno, Sonic, Snake.

Even the Mario/Wario relationship is a bit close for comfort. Luigi and the clones would be right out.

*The above is, in no way, my current expectations for Brawl. It is how I feel the roster would look if uniqueness and significance mattered over everything else.

Well, let's hope it does.

 

[rock_in_reo]

well i have been reading all these character lists so i may as well put in my own.

My 40 character list (by franchise)

Mario Series:

1 Mario
2 Luigi
3 Bowser
4 Peach
5 Wario
6 Yoshi

Pokemon Series:

7 Pikachu
8 Jigglypuff
9 Mewtwo
10 Lucario

Legend of Zelda Series:

11 Link
12 Zelda
13 Ganondorf (luigified)
14 either Cel-Shaded Link/Wolf & Minda

Donkey Kong Series:

15 DK
16 Diddy Kong
17 King K. Rool

Kirby Series:

18 Kirby
19 Meta-Knight
20 King Dedede

Metroid Series:

21 Samus
22 Zamus (i am counting them as two seperate characters)
23 Ridley

F-Zero Series:

24 C. Falcon
25 Samurai Goroh

Star Fox Series:

26 Fox
27 Falco (luigified)
28 Wolf
29 Krystal

Mother Series:

30 Ness
31 Jeff/Flint/Lucas/Paula

Fire Emblem Series:

32 Marth
33 Sigurd/Hector/Ike

Single Character Franchises:

34 Pit
35 Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)
36 Ice Climbers (Ice Climbers)
37 Olimar (Pikmin)
38 Andy/Sami (Advance Wars) [Or another character, these can be replaced with anyone from any franchise, i.e: another FE character]

3rd Party Characters:

39 Snake (Metal Gear Solid)
40 Sonic (Sonic the Hedehog)
41 Geno (Mario RPG)

[i no i have 41 characters but this is including Zamus, and i have changed my mind (so she is not a seperate character) but just dont worry]

 

[EnFerris]

My list as gone through many twists and turns. I have actually come up quite under 40 characters. This is because I think 35 is more reasonable if we don't want clones. I was also quite ruthless when getting rid of old characters. The way I see it, if you want to play as Game & Watch (a character that were cool and unique, but got most of his current notoriety FROM Smash Bros.) You can just pop the Melee disc in your Wii. No biggie.

Anyway, here goes:

1) Mario
2) Luigi (Further Luigified)
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Toad
6) Yoshi
7) Wario

8) Link, Hero of Time
9) Ganondorf (Luigified)
10) Link, Hero of Winds (Not a clone)
11) Zelda/Sheik

12) Pikachu
13) Mewtwo
14) Pokemon Trainer (using starters as B-moves)
15) JigglyPuff

16) Samuz/Zero Suit Samus
17) Ridley
18) Dark Samus (Not a clone)

19) Kirby
20) MetaKnight

21) Donkey Kong
22) Diddy Kong

23) Fox
24) Krystal

25) Marth
26) Hector

27) Ness
28) Olimar
29) Captain Falcoln
30) Little Mac
31) Ice Climbers
32) Pit

33) Sonic
34) Megaman
35) Snake

That leaves room for five characters, but I'm pretty sure they'd end up being clones. Still one clone to seven originals isn't a bad ratio. But I'm in favor of an alternate costume system so that the developers have more time to spend on things other than characters.

 

[icymatt]

They will never, ever, ever, EVER take out Luigi. He's one of the most important characters Nintendo has. Suggesting such a thing in a ny context is blasphemy worth the firing squad. At the very least, you'll get your Nintendo fan license revoked.

 

[TDub301]

Well, although he's very similar, I wouldn't consider Luigi a clone of Mario. I mean, they're brothers, so of course they're gonna be similar, but Luigi plays a lot different and has a lot of different moves. Kabyk makes a good point, though, because you can't really use the same tactics with the clones, you have to fight differently. But I also agree with Zombie Cola, I don't think that Pichu, Falco, Roy, or Doctor Mario really add much to the roster, it just makes it bigger with more numbers. I'm not sure if I'd consider them dumbed down versions, though, just like a twin with different strengths, weaknesses, and speed with a few moves that don't work the same way. Of course, it is a lot easier to just say dumbed down than that whole specific sentence.

I don't think they'll ever take out any of the original characters, besides just Luigi, for that matter. I love the way everyone's list always starts with the Mario characters, then the order changes most likely based on who they like the most.

 

[EnFerris]

Well, although he's very similar, I wouldn't consider Luigi a clone of Mario. I mean, they're brothers, so of course they're gonna be similar, but Luigi plays a lot different and has a lot of different moves. Kabyk makes a good point, though, because you can't really use the same tactics with the clones, you have to fight differently. But I also agree with Zombie Cola, I don't think that Pichu, Falco, Roy, or Doctor Mario really add much to the roster, it just makes it bigger with more numbers. I'm not sure if I'd consider them dumbed down versions, though, just like a twin with different strengths, weaknesses, and speed with a few moves that don't work the same way. Of course, it is a lot easier to just say dumbed down than that whole specific sentence.

I don't think they'll ever take out any of the original characters, besides just Luigi, for that matter. I love the way everyone's list always starts with the Mario characters, then the order changes most likely based on who they like the most.

Oh, I consciously did that. Except that the order was who was most essential to the franchise. Yoshi and Wario should have been higher, but they border on being their own franchises.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Thanks TDub301, and you are correct. They don't add much really to the roster, but one reason is because no one takes them seriously. People will use Doc because he's stronger than Mario, but they still don't think of Doc as Doc, they think "Let me use Mario's clone."

This is why Celda would work. Celda looks so different, it's harder to call him a clone based on looks alone, and he has a myriad of moves to pick from to make him different from Link.

And it's an unconciously done thing, that everyone starts with Mario, just because it's Mario.

 

[kaid]

Moreover, it's Mario, then Pokemon/Zelda (either order), then everyone else.