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Sensane

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Just found out my parents ordered tickets for Symphonic Evolutions while I was asleep. They spent $70 more dollars that even what I was expecting. Not sure if I should except them or exchange them to get our money back. :crazy:
Take them; your parents spent a lot of money on those tickets. If I were you I would find little reason not to take them, but that's just my opinion, so do what you feel is best.
 

DrRiceBoy

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Just found out my parents ordered tickets for Symphonic Evolutions while I was asleep. They spent $70 more dollars that even what I was expecting. Not sure if I should except them or exchange them to get our money back. :crazy:
I'm pretty sure they want you to go if they bought it for you. You should go!

...unless you don't like to go to those kind of things. Or you're busy. If so, then yeah, I'd exchange it.
 

Aninymouse

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I mean, side tilts are usually the kind of tilts that are left out because most of the time they're just not good moves or they're just outclassed. I can name multiple characters with this issue:
Mario
Luigi
Fox
Falco
Pikachu
Jigglypuff

There are some characters with somewhat useful side tilts, like Lucario and Little Mac, but even then those aren't the greatest moves.

Mewtwo's side tilt is only better than those I just mentioned because it has a decent range to it, but the problem is down tilt has very slightly less than it or the same - making side tilt almost completely outclassed, the only thing it has over down tilt is the fact that you can do PP forward tilts for spacing, but guess what down tilt also does? Space.

To be honest, I've been hurt by this much more than I've been helped - usually when I use it, it's actually sort of when I want to down tilt but I messed up, and, side tilt can lead you open to punishes. For side tilt's slow speed, it gives extremely marginal reward compared to down tilt, which is not only pretty much lagless in ending lag, but grants Mewtwo extremely high reward. So basically almost any time you want to use forward tilt, that's honestly a time to use down tilt instead.
Ike also has an exceptionally good Ftilt.

Uh... did it whiff because of point-blank range? I've never seen it whiff like that before.
 
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meleebrawler

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Ike also has an exceptionally good Ftilt.


Uh... did it whiff because of point-blank range? I've never seen it whiff like that before.
Eh, Ike's ftilt has nice range and is good for killing but isn't that safe.

Disable did hit the second time as it did 1%. Probably just some sort of anti stun-lock feature like with paralysis or regrabs.
 
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Metalex

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PEACE7 PEACE7 If you hit the opponent with a disable, there is a certain time window after the disable effect wears off that you can't hit them with a disable again (about 1 - 1,5 seconds) so the reason why you weren't able to hit Wario with disable the second time was because it was too soon after the first. It's there to prevent Mewtwo from disabling his enemys into infinity.

(Grabs have a similiar effect, if you grab someone there is a certain time afterwards where they are immune to grabs which was put in the game to prevent players from chaingrabbing)
 
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Soul Train

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Hey all, D3 main here!

So. I jump onto FG last night, and for the first time in my life get whacked by a Mewtwo. Next game I adapt and wreck him. Two hours later, I haven't ton in ten straight games and somewhat crazily laughing in frustration. Good lord the cat looks so much more fun to play now! At least against the fat monstrosity that is D3, play it right and you can beat us solidly at offense, defense, and sometimes even kill potential (at least with more setups). Congrats on getting some good patch attention!

;_; nope not jealous, not at all...
 
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PEACE7

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PEACE7 PEACE7 If you hit the opponent with a disable, there is a certain time window after the disable effect wears off that you can't hit them with a disable again (about 1 - 1,5 seconds) so the reason why you weren't able to hit Wario with disable the second time was because it was too soon after the first. It's there to prevent Mewtwo from disabling his enemys into infinity.

(Grabs have a similiar effect, if you grab someone there is a certain time afterwards where they are immune to grabs which was put in the game to prevent players from chaingrabbing)
That makes complete sense actually.
 

Murlough

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Hey all, D3 main here!

So. I jump onto FG last night, and for the first time in my life get whacked by a Mewtwo. Next game I adapt and wreck him. Two hours later, I haven't ton in ten straight games and somewhat crazily laughing in frustration. Good lord the cat looks so much more fun to play now! At least against the fat monstrosity that is D3, play it right and you can beat us solidly at offense, defense, and sometimes even kill potential (at least with more setups). Congrats on getting some good patch attention!

;_; nope not jealous, not at all...
Hopefully, the next patch will do DDD some justice.

As long as they aren't buffing the RANGE ON DAT F-SMASH!
 

Murlough

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Ironically, I rarely use any of Dedede's smash attacks. I'm often more prone to using Ike's f-smash than Dedede's f-smash.
I'm totally kidding.

It has become as sort of running joke at my scene in Murfreesboro. Every time someone uses DDD it ends in a F-Smash that has the range of half of BF it seems like. It is especially funny with me as I'm a very expressive person and Mewtwo is light as heck so when DDD charges that F-Smash I go in panic mode, incapable of moving for a quick punish out of fear and incapable of moving away because I know I can punish. So basically I freak out and let the full force of the gigantic F-Smash take me to the great amusement of the other players.

Anywho yeah please don't have that buffed.....regardless of how scrubby your opponent has to be for it to actually work...


EDIT: That anime was the ****. 10/10 would watch again.
 
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Aninymouse

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Hey all, D3 main here!

So. I jump onto FG last night, and for the first time in my life get whacked by a Mewtwo. Next game I adapt and wreck him. Two hours later, I haven't ton in ten straight games and somewhat crazily laughing in frustration. Good lord the cat looks so much more fun to play now! At least against the fat monstrosity that is D3, play it right and you can beat us solidly at offense, defense, and sometimes even kill potential (at least with more setups). Congrats on getting some good patch attention!

;_; nope not jealous, not at all...
Heya, friend! Thanks for dropping by our little corner of the internet and sharing your story.

I'm a fan of DeDeDe, even though my history with Kirby games amounts to a couple days with the Gameboy original and a couple days with Super Deluxe. Kirby, Meta Knight, D3 -- I love 'em all. Fun characters with lots of pinache. Ever since someone on Reddit showed me a Girthquake video (I subscribed!), I've fallen back in love with D3 again.

All that to say, I really, really, really hope Mr. Sakurai & team finally buff the remaining low tiers in this (potentially final) upcoming patch! It's like you said: Mewtwo is now a total blast to play! He went from a bottom tier (some said WORSE than Melee) to a viable mid tier pick in one fell swoop.

Sure, we have these characters like Olimar and Duck Hunt who have these difficult play styles that people agree have potential, but get ignored... jury's out on what exactly they could need because not enough skilled players use them. But... then you have characters like Zelda and DeDeDe who you have to be a genius to pull off anything impressive with at top level play. With these kinds of characters, you need the Mewtwo treatment: make all their best options better; improve movement options; don't give them a Hoo-Haa, but make what they have work properly; make them fun to play again.

Not every character can be top tier with a cast of 58. Someone has to be worst. But, "worst" doesn't have to resemble Smash 4 Zelda, whose Nyaru's Love doesn't even function properly.

I've heard it suggested that if DeDeDe's jab 2 was improved (faster FAF, better angle, more hitstun: one or more of those), many of his problems would be mitigated. Not all, but several. It'd turn D3 into a combo machine and possibly give him a kill confirm as well.
 

LRodC

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Heya, friend! Thanks for dropping by our little corner of the internet and sharing your story.

I'm a fan of DeDeDe, even though my history with Kirby games amounts to a couple days with the Gameboy original and a couple days with Super Deluxe. Kirby, Meta Knight, D3 -- I love 'em all. Fun characters with lots of pinache. Ever since someone on Reddit showed me a Girthquake video (I subscribed!), I've fallen back in love with D3 again.

All that to say, I really, really, really hope Mr. Sakurai & team finally buff the remaining low tiers in this (potentially final) upcoming patch! It's like you said: Mewtwo is now a total blast to play! He went from a bottom tier (some said WORSE than Melee) to a viable mid tier pick in one fell swoop.

Sure, we have these characters like Olimar and Duck Hunt who have these difficult play styles that people agree have potential, but get ignored... jury's out on what exactly they could need because not enough skilled players use them. But... then you have characters like Zelda and DeDeDe who you have to be a genius to pull off anything impressive with at top level play. With these kinds of characters, you need the Mewtwo treatment: make all their best options better; improve movement options; don't give them a Hoo-Haa, but make what they have work properly; make them fun to play again.

Not every character can be top tier with a cast of 58. Someone has to be worst. But, "worst" doesn't have to resemble Smash 4 Zelda, whose Nyaru's Love doesn't even function properly.

I've heard it suggested that if DeDeDe's jab 2 was improved (faster FAF, better angle, more hitstun: one or more of those), many of his problems would be mitigated. Not all, but several. It'd turn D3 into a combo machine and possibly give him a kill confirm as well.
How does Nayru's Love not function properly? It seems fine to me in terms of functionality. It's not like the move is bugged to my knowledge.
 

Murlough

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Out of curiousity, does anyone else get pissed when they see a random tier list and see Mewtwo at the bottom?
 
D

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People who think Mewtwo is bottom 10, much less bottom 5 literally know nothing about the character lol. I'm used to it at this point, but it still is hella annoying.

How does Nayru's Love not function properly? It seems fine to me in terms of functionality. It's not like the move is bugged to my knowledge.
Since the move activates on frame 7, Zelda can be interrupted or attacked before the move's startup frames by something like a fast jab or tilt. Mostly something like Falcon or Kirby's jab. Similar case with Farore's Wind, she can be attacked during the startup frames, which doesn't allow her to teleport.
 
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鉄腕
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Hey all, D3 main here!

So. I jump onto FG last night, and for the first time in my life get whacked by a Mewtwo. Next game I adapt and wreck him. Two hours later, I haven't ton in ten straight games and somewhat crazily laughing in frustration. Good lord the cat looks so much more fun to play now! At least against the fat monstrosity that is D3, play it right and you can beat us solidly at offense, defense, and sometimes even kill potential (at least with more setups). Congrats on getting some good patch attention!

;_; nope not jealous, not at all...
I would assume this means the secret Mewtwo/Dedede Alliance @shrooby and I set up is still held in high regard then? :secretkpop:
 

Aninymouse

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Since the move activates on frame 7, Zelda can be interrupted or attacked before the move's startup frames by something like a fast jab or tilt. Mostly something like Falcon or Kirby's jab. Similar case with Farore's Wind, she can be attacked during the startup frames, which doesn't allow her to teleport.
I can't find the video now, but I swear I saw that in addition to this, there's a couple frames mid-attack where Zelda can be hit out of it. Since I can't find any video, though, I might be remembering wrong or mistaken.

If I mispoke, please forgive me. It may very well have just been the crappy start-up frames.

I would assume this means the secret Mewtwo/Dedede Alliance @shrooby and I set up is still held in high regard then? :secretkpop:
Hey, us sometimes-villains have to stick together, y'know? We're just misunderstood.
 
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Murlough

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D-did I j-just read that Pokkén w-will be at EVO? H-holy.... Is that even possible? Is that even legal? Is the sky falling apart? I was caught in an illusion, wasn't I? :surprised:
It is pretty awesome, huh?

Hopefully it won't disappoint.
 

Soul Train

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Heya, friend! Thanks for dropping by our little corner of the internet and sharing your story.

I've heard it suggested that if DeDeDe's jab 2 was improved (faster FAF, better angle, more hitstun: one or more of those), many of his problems would be mitigated. Not all, but several. It'd turn D3 into a combo machine and possibly give him a kill confirm as well.
Hah you bet. And yeah, Jab 2 being faster would help...well, part of one issue. The move is literally unsafe on hit at close range, unsafe in general to use in neutral at most ranges, and yes needs fixing. But the bigger issue: D3 can't play up close, is easily zoned out with his terrible speed and size, then finally can't kill outside a read/threaten shields whatsoever. That's...bad. Seriously, as Mewtwo you can flowchart the match and win every time: Am I far away? Zone, force approach. Am I close? Win with safer+faster attacks. Am I in D3's ftilt range? Don't be. sigh.

But not to be all negative. We actually know exactly what D3 needs from a patch to be at mid/usable level - here's our patch request video! Currently we're trying to find ways to get the specific requests in this thread translated into Japanese, not easy.

Honestly, we'd lurve some of what Mewtwo got. Very specific buffs that address your weaknesses and bring out your strengths - in your case, frame data, hitboxes, and damage. Give us the first two and it's Christmas all year lol
 
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LRodC

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I always hate when I see people overrate the hell out of Roy for some reason and then just stick Mewtwo as one of the worst characters in the game.
 
D

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I always hate when I see people overrate the hell out of Roy for some reason and then just stick Mewtwo as one of the worst characters in the game.
It's just like the early Melee metagame. People used to think Roy could stand on the same ground as Marth while Mewtwo was considered in early tier lists as the worst character in the game. Now, Roy ended up becoming a bottom tier and Mewtwo rose 7 places from his position back in the old days as time passed, even if he's still low tier. :mewtwomelee:

Even if Mewtwo in Melee isn't a very good character at all, he can at least pull off some really flashy stuff (Teleport mindgames, chaingrabs, bair gimps etc.) More than anything Roy could do.

I'm glad the Roy hype has died in SSB4. I don't think he'll get very far in the meta as is. His approach options are very limited, and he suffers from a bad recovery and being combo food. He doesn't have a single safe move in neutral save for his nair, and he pretty much requires to be close to his opponents due to the placing of his sweetspot. Marth's an unremarkable character in this game as well but at least he gets some sort of benefit off proper spacing.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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It's very ironic to think that someone who has a very good air speed value would have a mediocre recovery, but I guess Roy's high falling speed can be a hindrance.
 

LRodC

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It's very ironic to think that someone who has a very good air speed value would have a mediocre recovery, but I guess Roy's high falling speed can be a hindrance.
I don't even think his recovery is mediocre, it's flat out poor. Blazer is a great attacking move in itself but it's a terrible recovery, similar to Rising Uppercut (although obviously nothing's worse than that recovery wise).
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I don't even think his recovery is mediocre, it's flat out poor. Blazer is a great attacking move in itself but it's a terrible recovery, similar to Rising Uppercut (although obviously nothing's worse than that recovery wise).
Climhazzard without Limit Break comes to mind as well. At least Blazer offers some horizontal movement, even if it isn't that great of a third jump.
 

LRodC

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If I had to rank the 10 worst recoveries in the game, it'd probably be something like this:

1. Little Mac
2. Ganondorf
3. Dr. Mario
4. Cloud
5. Duck Hunt
6. Roy
7. Captain Falcon
8. Mii Brawler (With Feint Jump, otherwise he'd be 4th)
9. Ness
10. Bowser
 
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Murlough

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If I had to rank the 10 worst recoveries in the game, it'd probably be something like this:

1. Little Mac
2. Dr. Mario
3. Ganondorf
4. Cloud
5. Duck Hunt
6. Roy
7. Captain Falcon
8. Mii Brawler (With Feint Jump, otherwise he'd be 4th)
9. Ness
10. Not sure about this one.
I would say DK. He gets a tiny bit too low and its over.
 
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LRodC

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Kirby's recovery is also pretty bad.
If we're purely talking Up B, yeah. He has his jumps and quick enough aerials to defend himself though so I don't think he qualifies for worst.

Bowser's is also kind of poor.
 
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meleebrawler

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If I had to rank the 10 worst recoveries in the game, it'd probably be something like this:

1. Little Mac
2. Ganondorf
3. Dr. Mario
4. Cloud
5. Duck Hunt
6. Roy
7. Captain Falcon
8. Mii Brawler (With Feint Jump, otherwise he'd be 4th)
9. Ness
10. Not sure about this one.
Bowser would probably be number 10. DK may be prone to dying from delaying his up b just a bit too much (or hitting the wrong button), but he has airspeed which makes it tricky to judge when he'll use it (and you don't wanna be near him when he starts it). If you don't spike him, he's probably coming back. The hard part for him is the ledge.
 

Furret24

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If we're purely talking Up B, yeah. He has his jumps and quick enough aerials to defend himself though so I don't think he qualifies for worst.

Bowser's is also kind of poor.
His fastest aerial that hits above or infront of him is frame 10, which isn't all that good. He's also really slow in the air. It's easy to gimp him and force him to use Final Cutter.

 

Metallinatus

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If I had to rank the 10 worst recoveries in the game, it'd probably be something like this:

1. Little Mac
2. Ganondorf
3. Dr. Mario
4. Cloud
5. Duck Hunt
6. Roy
7. Captain Falcon
8. Mii Brawler (With Feint Jump, otherwise he'd be 4th)
9. Ness
10. Bowser
Why Duck Hunt if he can fly?
Why Ness but not Lucas?
And I'd say Bowser's is better than DK's, because he can get much higher mashing B.
And Kirby's recovery is one of the best.... don't forget, this is not Melee, air dodge is your friend.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Little Mac has it the worst, since absolutely none of his custom special moves help with making his recovery better, and using Slip Counter is very situational, requiring you to really read your opponent's next move.

Ganondorf can improve his recovery buy utilizing Dark Fists and Wizard's Dropkick. Cloud's Climhazzard gets a huge boost by Limit Break. Shulk can use his Jump Monado Art to recover more easily. Bowser Jr. can use Koopa Drift to improve his horizontal recovery. I could go even further, but when it comes to poor recoveries, Little Mac is pretty much number 1 on the list.
 

420quickscoper

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Why Duck Hunt if he can fly?
Why Ness but not Lucas?
And I'd say Bowser's is better than DK's, because he can get much higher mashing B.
And Kirby's recovery is one of the best.... don't forget, this is not Melee, air dodge is your friend.
Duck Hunt's recovery is bad because it isn't a quick recovery, plus, it has no hitbox to protect him with, which makes him very easy to gimp.
Lucas isn't there because it goes way farther.
On Bowser, I'd say you're right.
Kirby's recovery is pretty bad because his up b travels almost nowhere horizontally. Also, if he's knocked far, he has to jump all the way back. ez gimp.

Keep in mind, that, in Smash 4, a majority of the recoveries in the game are good in terms of distance. Having a safe recovery is significantly more important than having one that goes 5 miles.
 

C3CC

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Out of curiousity, does anyone else get pissed when they see a random tier list and see Mewtwo at the bottom?
I get VERY pissed when I see this. I'm slowly ending, though. If you go the tier list thread for Smash 4, you'll see that lately everyone has been placing him near mid-tier after the buff.

First, the tier list... Then, the world!!
 

Murlough

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I get VERY pissed when I see this. I'm slowly ending, though. If you go the tier list thread for Smash 4, you'll see that lately everyone has been placing him near mid-tier after the buff.

First, the tier list... Then, the world!!
Progress feels good.
 

Sensane

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Duck Hunt's recovery is bad because it isn't a quick recovery, plus, it has no hitbox to protect him with, which makes him very easy to gimp.
If we're going to follow that logic then Villager should be on there, too. It goes a massive distance but it makes him too easy to stage spike, especially on BF or FD.
 

420quickscoper

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If we're going to follow that logic then Villager should be on there, too. It goes a massive distance but it makes him too easy to stage spike, especially on BF or FD.
Except Villager has the balloons going for him, so it's not THAT easy to gimp. Duck Hunt, on the other hand, has nothing.
 
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