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sparkaura

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Seems like people wanted Mewtwo to be this top tier god on release and was disappointed on release. I dont get this pessimistic view on Mewtwo though, I think he's a solid character over all and super fun.

In other words: the problem doesn't come with what people think, but with what they can do, or, to be more accurate, can't do (downloading Mewtwo).
So, you are mad that Mewtwo is optional? I'm not understanding the point of you ranting about Mewtwo. Your reasoning seems trivial.
 

cstonic

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When I say that I don't settle for less, I mean that I don't just sit in a corner and praise Sakurai because Mewtwo's in the game. That's not good enough. He should've been one of the first characters developed so he would've meant more, but no, Masahiro Krapurai had to work on the other characters first, while he "considered" Mewtwo.
Though maybe I'm being a bit too hard on the man, I mean, after all, Mewtwo did make it into the initial cast... as a trophy.

And in that same way that I don't settle for less, I also don't just sit around and praise Sakurai because Mewtwo's in the game: In the game as a mid-low tier character. I mean, seriously, first you nerf Mewtwo (not as a whole, but any nerf Mewtwo gets hurts him 3x as much as anyone else), then you don't give him the buffs that he needs to be a great (not to be confused with sufficient) character, then, to top it allll off, you nerf his Up-throw... "Smash 4 truly is balanced"... Yeah right.
But hey, look on the bright side, Mewtwo's Shadow Ball now charges up slower!!! and even better, Mewtwo is lighter!!! His glaring flaws have all been fixed!!! woo-hoo! Hooray! Huzzah!



No, it's more like this: "I really like Link. I like him so much, that I'm not only going to make him a fast/strong character, but I am also going to give him the most projectiles in the game, all of which are broken!"
Again, it goes like this: "Ganondorf is awesome. The way he is a fast/strong character with a high weight value, a lagless Up-Smash, cheap, effortless combos, broken kill moves, and great combo potential really got me through the hardest decision on whether to make this a balanced game, or a free-for-all/2-on-2 and 4-on-4 party game!"
P.S: Don't forget the items!
-Sakurai



How ironic that the only instance of this is with Mewtwo. It's called DLC-Syndrome

Edit: Challenger Approaches!

My problem isn't so much them not caring, I could...care less about that. It's the fact that he's optional that ticks Mii off. I like Kirby, but I hate Sm4sh Kirby:He's a letdown, and all he manages to do is annoy people, which doesn't secure a victory. And let's not talk about his combo potential... or the lack thereof. The thing with Kirby though is, regardless of how much I hate Sm4sh Kirby, or Sm4sh Link, or Diddy, or Sm4sh GameWatch (they ruined this character), or Sm4sh Sonic, I can't get rid of them. They're a part of the game, just like how I can't remove people from existence because they are bothering me. They're a part of the human race. Mewtwo is like a Bulldog in a world full of Humans: The humans will either keep it (download him), or annihilate it (not download him). But you can't create or delete a human being, nor can you the characters in Sm4sh. You have to accept them, even if you never play as them.

It's almost like the difference between watching a film at a grand movie theater, of which contains a huge, HD screen, and watching a DVD on your little TV at home. With the theater, you either choose to go, and get the whole, albeit slightly uncontrollable experience (Sm4sh as a whole), or not go, (not getting the game). Whereas with DVD, you get the movie (the game), yet you have complete control now: control you don't need. The type of control that allows you pause during the movie's climax (waiting to get Mewtwo), or skipping over a scene altogether (completely opting-out to get Mewtwo).

In other words: the problem doesn't come with what people think, but with what they can do, or, to be more accurate, can't do (downloading Mewtwo).
lmao

Also, about that new Sonic Boom...really confused why they would make new game in a series with an awful reputation. (Sonic Boom)
Maybe it was on SEGA/Nintendo Partnership contract.
 

Schnee117

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lmao

Also, about that new Sonic Boom...really confused why they would make new game in a series with an awful reputation. (Sonic Boom)
Maybe it was on SEGA/Nintendo Partnership contract.
The partnership was 3 Wii U games.
Wasted on Lost World, Sochi Olympics and Rise of Lyric.
Bearing in mind this is a sequel to the 3ds game it makes sense to be on the 3ds.
 

U-Throw

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I'm very surprised that Sega actually going ahead and making a second Sonic Boom game, especially after the first two games bombed so hard. That said, everyone deserves a second chance, I guess, and this game does look a bit more interesting than the first Sonic Boom games, so maybe I'll pick this one up. To be honest, I never played the original Sonic Boom games, which is largely because they were critically panned, so I really never gave them a fair chance.

However, as bad as Sonic Boom was received, I'm actually a fan of the characters' redesigns. The cast looks more original in the Sonic Boom continuity, and I personally think they look more heroic than their mainstream counterparts. Plus, several of the characters look more varied and different when compared to each other. Sonic and Knuckles, in particular, now starkly stand out from one another, since they no longer share the same build. I also like how several of the characters' redesigns emphasize their respective traits, such as engineering goggles for Tails and a clearly muscular body type for Knuckles. That's all just me, though.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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That video was taken down not too long ago.
This one hasn't been though... :3
 

U-Throw

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I can't choose which game I'll get
I have the Wii U version, and it's fantastic! However, the 3DS version looks like it'll have more characters, so if that kind of stuff matters to you, then you should probably consider the 3DS version. I haven't quite finished Hyrule Warriors yet, since Splatoon has been preoccupying me, but it's a great game! I absolutely love playing as Sheik because her playstyle in Hyrule Warriors is quite interesting. It incorporates her Harp, which, when used to finish combos, can imbue Sheik with various elemental effects. It's awesome!
 

Schnee117

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Ganondorf's my favourite because it's actually Ganondorf with original moves.
Dual Swords. Dark Magic. Sheer Brutality.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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According to the end of the trailer, if you own both you can transfer Tetra and King Hyrule to the Wii U.

So, if you want to just get one, 3DS. If you have both I assume they'll connect more than just those 2 characters.
 
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U-Throw

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Ganondorf's my favourite because it's actually Ganondorf with original moves.
Dual Swords. Dark Magic. Sheer Brutality.
I find it ironic, yet very funny, that Warlock Punch is now a canon move, since Ganondorf uses it in one of his combo finishers. It's kinda the reverse of how movesets in Smash usually work. Before we know it, Smash 4 Ganondorf will be canon Ganondorf:p.
 

Schnee117

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I find it ironic, yet very funny, that Warlock Punch is now a canon move, since Ganondorf uses it in one of his combo finishers. It's kinda the reverse of how movesets in Smash usually work. Before we know it, Smash 4 Ganondorf will be canon Ganondorf:p.
Yay can't wait for my Captain Falcondorf OC to finally be a thing in the Zelda games.
/s
 

Yoshisaurus Rex

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I'll probably get the Wii U version since mine just came in the mail today. Anyone see the "female Link" too? They should also add CDI Link, Zelda, Ganon and the King. :troll:

"I can't wait to bomb some dodgongos!"
 

Schnee117

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I'll probably get the Wii U version since mine just came in the mail today. Anyone see the "female Link" too? They should also add CDI Link, Zelda, Ganon and the King. :troll:

"I can't wait to bomb some dodgongos!"
You dare bring that thing up! "YOU MUST DIE!"
 

U-Throw

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You dare bring that thing up! "YOU MUST DIE!"
Gannon Banned

User: RegiGiygas117
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Rank: Smash Master

Reason: Dissing the LoZ CD-i games, presumably without playing them.
Length of Gannon Ban: 48 hours.

Notice!-All Gannon Bans are final and undisputable unless considerable evidence that gives substantial reason for your unbanning surfaces. If you believe this decision was made in error, you may contact the Gannon Ban Administration via PM or via email. Thank you!


 

Schnee117

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Gannon Banned
User: RegiGiygas117
Sex: Male
Location: Astora
Rank: Smash Master

Reason: Dissing the LoZ CD-i games, presumably without playing them.
Length of Gannon Ban: 48 hours.

Notice!-All Gannon Bans are final and undisputable unless considerable evidence that gives substantial reason for your unbanning surfaces. If you believe this decision was made in error, you may contact the Gannon Ban Administration via PM or via email. Thank you!


I also praise the sun.
 
D

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Warning Received
Link is by no means fast compared to the characters that people cry wolf about. His projectiles are by no means broken either. They can all be worked around.

Ganondorf isn't fast either compared to the character he was cloned from. Being strong and heavy is his thing. His kill moves are nowhere near broken, and everything else is just false.

If you want to not be seen as a jerk or a fool, then add some common sense to your posts. It's for your own good and in the long run it'll benefit you.
Being Strong and Heavy? That's balanced. I never complained about that. It's being Fast and Strong that's overpowered. Why? Because not every character gets those gifts. Some are Strong but Slow, Fast but Weak, Overall Average, or Slow and Weak, therefor making characters like Captain Falcon instantly overpowered, because while say, Mewtwo, is an Overall Average character, Falcon is a Fast/Strong character.

You could sell of any character as OP if you just focus on their strengths.
It's not that I just focus on their strengths, it's that their strengths are stronger than their weaknesses, therefor making them nearly irrelevant. Falcon's recovery also isn't bad, by the way...

Another reason I don't consider weaknesses is because that would make it even worst:

Mewtwo
--
Strengths:
Powerful Projectile
Long Tail
Good Throws
Sufficient Combo Potential
Decent Movement Options
-----
Weaknesses:
Projectile takes long time to charge (probably second slowest charge next to Robin's)
Unreliable Side-B (don't believe me, just jump...lol)
Down-B that only works on one side
Up-B that (more times than not) doesn't reliably connect with the ledge
Big target (I'm looking at you, tail)
Super Light (Mewtwo's been eating them Salads)
Slow attacks
Unreliable Fair
---------
Captain Falcon
--
Strengths:
Fast
Strong
Amazing Combo Potential
Good Side-B
Good Recovery (if you're using all of your horizontal momentum)
Great, multipurpose attacks I.E.: Uair (for combos) Fair (for finishers) Side-Smash (for finishers) Down-throw (into knee)
-------
Weaknesses:
If you get hit then immediately use Up-B, the momentum may be lacking
He will do poorly if you suck enough, and your opponent is good enough
People sometimes let Falcon's strengths distort their mindsets, which can hold them back
-------
Ganondorf
--
Strengths:
Fast (I'm serious)
Strong
Decent Combo Potential (his strength makes up for it)
Astronomical Side-B
Inconceivably high K.O potential
----
Weaknesses:
He is big
If you spam Side-B too much, you will get read like a childrens' book
--------------------------------------------------------
See? It's almost unfair to take weaknesses into account, because in most cases, there aren't any.
Smash 4 is a game of strengths, in which having one weakness seals your fate.
Mewtwo needs buffs, and the other characters nerfs.

What especially makes me sick is that people want Smashers of my caliber not to hate Smash4 , and in some cases, stop playing Melee or making Brawl Hacks, but how am I supposed to do that in a game like this?

They literally took the thing that I hated most about Melee (fast and strong characters), and they put them in the game, without even including the one thing that could've kept them in check: The advanced gameplay. Because of course, this is just the Brawl engine with jacked up Training mode mechanics.

Sakurai got it right the second time, in Melee. As both casual gamers and competitive gamers could enjoy that game.
But it's like the more Sakurai tries to appeal to both communities, the less he actually succeeds at doing so.

I know I can't convince you guys, you're all robots, robots and slaves to the Smash-Matrix, but that won't stop me from expressing how unbalance this game is. And when Smash 4 and it's servers get hacked one day (so the game can be fixed), you all would've had it coming.

canon Ganondorf
Canon-Ganondorf?
Canondorf?!

Praise the Son +, or perish
fixed ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

LIQUID12A

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Being Strong and Heavy? That's balanced. I never complained about that. It's being Fast and Strong that overpowered. Why? Because not every character gets those gifts. Some are Strong but Slow, Fast but Weak, Overall Average, or Slow and Weak, therefor making characters like Captain Falcon instantly overpowered, because while say, Mewtwo, is an Overall Average character, Falcon is a Fast/Strong character.
That's called game balance, dude. Not everyone is going to get the fast/strong combo. But there really isn't a character in Smash 4 that got the Brawl Meta Knight treatment as of now. Brawl MK was the pinnacle of the Fast/Strong complaint you're throwing out. Being Fast/Strong is not exactly game breaking either, unless it's to an extent such as the aforementioned Meta Knight. And if Captain Falcon were as overpowered as you imply, then the complaints made during Smash 4's early meta wouldn't have been about Diddy Kong or Little Mac, but Falcon. Which was never the case. Falcon does hold high usage stats, sure, but there hasn't been a vocal, community-wide outcry that he's overpowered.

I know I can't convince you guys, you're all robots, robots and slaves to the Smash-Matrix, but that won't stop me from expressing how unbalance this game is. And when Smash 4 and it's servers get hacked one day (so the game can be fixed), you all would've had it coming.
Honestly, you're practically begging for people to not like you when you say things such as that we're all "robots and slaves". You're allowed to have an opinion, but not like this. Drop the attitude, I reiterate that not being a jerk to others and having an open mindset to what people say will benefit you in the future.
 

U-Throw

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Being Strong and Heavy? That's balanced. I never complained about that. It's being Fast and Strong that overpowered. Why? Because not every character gets those gifts. Some are Strong but Slow, Fast but Weak, Overall Average, or Slow and Weak, therefor making characters like Captain Falcon instantly overpowered, because while say, Mewtwo, is an Overall Average character, Falcon is a Fast/Strong character.


It's not that I just focus on their strengths, it's that their strengths are stronger than their weaknesses, therefor making them nearly irrelevant. Falcon's recovery also isn't bad, by the way...

Another reason I don't consider weaknesses is because that would make it even worst:

Mewtwo
--
Strengths:
Powerful Projectile
Long Tail
Good Throws
Sufficient Combo Potential
Decent Movement Options
-----
Weaknesses:
Projectile takes long time to charge (probably second slowest charge next to Robin's)
Unreliable Side-B (don't believe me, just jump...lol)
Down-B that only works on one side
Up-B that (more times than not) doesn't reliably connect with the ledge
Big target (I'm looking at you, tail)
Super Light (Mewtwo's been eating them Salads)
Slow attacks
Unreliable Fair
---------
Captain Falcon
--
Strengths:
Fast
Strong
Amazing Combo Potential
Good Side-B
Good Recovery (if you're using all of your horizontal momentum)
Great, multipurpose attacks I.E.: Uair (for combos) Fair (for finishers) Side-Smash (for finishers) Down-throw (into knee)
-------
Weaknesses:
If you get hit then immediately use Up-B, the momentum may be lacking
He will do poorly if you suck enough, and your opponent is good enough
People sometimes let Falcon's strengths distort their mindsets, which can hold them back
-------
Ganondorf
--
Strengths:
Fast (I'm serious)
Strong
Decent Combo Potential (his strength makes up for it)
Astronomical Side-B
Inconceivably high K.O potential
----
Weaknesses:
He is big
If you spam Side-B too much, you will get read like a childrens' book
--------------------------------------------------------
See? It's almost unfair to take weaknesses into account, because in most cases, there aren't any.
Smash 4 is a game of strengths, in which having one weakness seals your fate.
Mewtwo needs buffs, and the other characters nerfs.

What especially makes me sick is that people want Smashers of my caliber not to hate Smash4 , and in some cases, stop playing Melee or making Brawl Hacks, but how am I supposed to do that in a game like this?

They literally took the thing that I hated most about Melee (fast and strong characters), and they put them in the game, without even including the one thing that could've kept them in check: The advanced gameplay. Because of course, this is just the Brawl engine with jacked up Training mode mechanics.

Sakurai got it right the second time, in Melee. As both casual gamers and competitive gamers could enjoy that game.
But it's like the more Sakurai tries to appeal to both communities, the less he actually succeeds at doing so.

I know I can't convince you guys, you're all robots, robots and slaves to the Smash-Matrix, but that won't stop me from expressing how unbalance this game is. And when Smash 4 and it's servers get hacked one day (so the game can be fixed), you all would've had it coming.
Teleport doesn't reliably connect with the ledge in most cases? Ganondorf is fast? Captain Falcon is the most overpowered character in Smash 4?

Oh, and, assuming nothing has changed since our last argument, Robin can be used as a rush-down character.

Aaaaaannnnddddd... Right back on my Ignore list. This is just pathetic and ignorant.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Being Strong and Heavy? That's balanced. I never complained about that. It's being Fast and Strong that's overpowered. Why? Because not every character gets those gifts. Some are Strong but Slow, Fast but Weak, Overall Average, or Slow and Weak, therefor making characters like Captain Falcon instantly overpowered, because while say, Mewtwo, is an Overall Average character, Falcon is a Fast/Strong character.
I just want to point out that being slow and weak or fast and strong, isn't everything. You also have end-lag, start-up frames, hit-boxes, etc. before you can call a character overpowered. Falcon has uber end lag on near all of his moves making near all of his moves punishable. Falcon is a character you want to bait, plain and simple. If you're going by the "rush-down only" procedure that you were talking about previously, then there is no wonder why you see him as over-powered. You have to change your strategies if you want to be a sufficient threat against everyone you face.
 
Last edited:

Spirst

 
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Messages
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Cut the crap, people. This kind of argument has led to warnings before so it baffles me that it keeps on arising.

Mario Smith, you keep on baiting people with your Smash 4 bashing posts. Doing that on a Smash 4 subforum of all places isn't going to lead to anything productive. If you keep it up, I can guarantee you will eventually be roombanned since you've been told multiple times not to be so argumentative and spur people on with your attitude.

Everyone else, just stop taking the bait. If you don't want to see his posts, just put him on ignore or don't bother replying. Doing things like arguing more or flaming in return only adds fuel to the fire. Come on, we're past elementary school already.
 

DrRiceBoy

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I just want to point out that being slow and weak or fast and strong, isn't everything. You also have end-lag, start-up frames, hit-boxes, etc. before you can call a character overpowered. Falcon has uber end lag on near all of his moves making near all of his moves punishable. Falcon is a character you want to bait, plain and simple. If you're going by the "rush-down only" procedure that you were talking about previously, then there is no wonder why you see him as over-powered. You have to change your strategies if you want to be a sufficient threat against everyone you face.
Pretty much this.
Being Strong and Heavy? That's balanced. I never complained about that. It's being Fast and Strong that's overpowered. Why? Because not every character gets those gifts. Some are Strong but Slow, Fast but Weak, Overall Average, or Slow and Weak, therefor making characters like Captain Falcon instantly overpowered, because while say, Mewtwo, is an Overall Average character, Falcon is a Fast/Strong character.


It's not that I just focus on their strengths, it's that their strengths are stronger than their weaknesses, therefor making them nearly irrelevant. Falcon's recovery also isn't bad, by the way...

Another reason I don't consider weaknesses is because that would make it even worst:

Mewtwo
--
Strengths:
Powerful Projectile
Long Tail
Good Throws
Sufficient Combo Potential
Decent Movement Options
-----
Weaknesses:
Projectile takes long time to charge (probably second slowest charge next to Robin's)
Unreliable Side-B (don't believe me, just jump...lol)
Down-B that only works on one side
Up-B that (more times than not) doesn't reliably connect with the ledge
Big target (I'm looking at you, tail)
Super Light (Mewtwo's been eating them Salads)
Slow attacks
Unreliable Fair
---------
Captain Falcon
--
Strengths:
Fast
Strong
Amazing Combo Potential
Good Side-B
Good Recovery (if you're using all of your horizontal momentum)
Great, multipurpose attacks I.E.: Uair (for combos) Fair (for finishers) Side-Smash (for finishers) Down-throw (into knee)
-------
Weaknesses:
If you get hit then immediately use Up-B, the momentum may be lacking
He will do poorly if you suck enough, and your opponent is good enough
People sometimes let Falcon's strengths distort their mindsets, which can hold them back
-------
Ganondorf
--
Strengths:
Fast (I'm serious)
Strong
Decent Combo Potential (his strength makes up for it)
Astronomical Side-B
Inconceivably high K.O potential
----
Weaknesses:
He is big
If you spam Side-B too much, you will get read like a childrens' book
--------------------------------------------------------
See? It's almost unfair to take weaknesses into account, because in most cases, there aren't any.
Smash 4 is a game of strengths, in which having one weakness seals your fate.
Mewtwo needs buffs, and the other characters nerfs.

What especially makes me sick is that people want Smashers of my caliber not to hate Smash4 , and in some cases, stop playing Melee or making Brawl Hacks, but how am I supposed to do that in a game like this?

They literally took the thing that I hated most about Melee (fast and strong characters), and they put them in the game, without even including the one thing that could've kept them in check: The advanced gameplay. Because of course, this is just the Brawl engine with jacked up Training mode mechanics.

Sakurai got it right the second time, in Melee. As both casual gamers and competitive gamers could enjoy that game.
But it's like the more Sakurai tries to appeal to both communities, the less he actually succeeds at doing so.

I know I can't convince you guys, you're all robots, robots and slaves to the Smash-Matrix, but that won't stop me from expressing how unbalance this game is. And when Smash 4 and it's servers get hacked one day (so the game can be fixed), you all would've had it coming.


Canon-Ganondorf?
Canondorf?!


fixed ;)
I'm not too knowledgable about Falcon, but I use Ganon a lot. Ganon isn't fast nor does he have "decent" combo potential. He is one of the slowest characters in the entire game on both the air and ground. His side-b can be teched. Ganon has powerful strengths, but honestly he is not as good of a character you make him see to be. He is pretty much combo food for almost everybody in the game and can't handle projectiles at all. You have to play Ganon defensive at high level play which is especially hard against combo heavy or campy characters... He's just way too slow and too big. Not to mention, his recovery sucks. He's great at killing and damaging but other than that he isn't great at anything else. Honestly, I love Ganon, but his weaknesses are very very apparent and can be taken advantage of very easily. If you lose to him, it's not that the character is "op", but because the
opponent is simply a better player.

edit: just read mod post so I won't say anything anymore. :p
 
Last edited:

NonSpecificGuy

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Cut the crap, people. This kind of argument has led to warnings before so it baffles me that it keeps on arising.

Mario Smith, you keep on baiting people with your Smash 4 bashing posts. Doing that on a Smash 4 subforum of all places isn't going to lead to anything productive. If you keep it up, I can guarantee you will eventually room banned since you've been told multiple times not to be so argumentative and spur people on with your attitude.

Everyone else, just stop taking the bait. If you don't want to see his posts, just put him on ignore or don't bother replying. Doing things like arguing more or flaming in return only adds fuel to the fire. Come on, we're past elementary school already.
Apologies, Spirst. I didn't mean to prolong the argument.

I just wanted to point out to everyone, not just Mario Smith, that power and speed doesn't make a character any more or less powerful.
 

DrRiceBoy

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On another topic, anybody see the new IF trailer and commercial? My hype levels are rising even more and more for this game. The animated scenes are freaking sweet and so is the music. The music used in both the trailers is as good as some of my favorite Awakening themes. Also, the attacking animations look a lot flashier and awesome. Really excited for this game.
 
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MagiusNecros

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,176
I find it ironic, yet very funny, that Warlock Punch is now a canon move, since Ganondorf uses it in one of his combo finishers. It's kinda the reverse of how movesets in Smash usually work. Before we know it, Smash 4 Ganondorf will be canon Ganondorf:p.
I think you mean HW Fabudorf will replace Falcondorf which will be more awesome and simply integrates the WP in the moveset.
 
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