Social Spoon Sword Social

[Deleted member]

good games.

 

[ORVO5]

Fooling around in FG yesterday (don't mind the mediocre gameplay, was distracted) with this Shiek (Sans?), but check out that read at the end though! DONGSLAP!

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Fooling around in FG yesterday (don't mind the mediocre gameplay, was distracted) with this Shiek (Sans?), but check out that read at the end though! DONGSLAP!

Sheik is an annoying MU for Mewtwo. But anyways, nice gimp. :3

 

[pikazz]

I dont see Sheik that bad MU because of mewtwos weight is a good bless against sheik since he can escape her easier! Sheik cant really kill Mewtwo with many of her moves thanks lacking of kill options. but she can be annoying!

bad, no. but annoying yes!

 

[Chiroz]

I dont see Sheik that bad MU because of mewtwos weight is a good bless against sheik since he can escape her easier! Sheik cant really kill Mewtwo with many of her moves thanks lacking of kill options. but she can be annoying!

bad, no. but annoying yes!

Sheik can land F-Air chains at all %s on Mewtwo until he's out of the stage and end with a bouncing fish. It's an assured combo or at least that's what Zero and K9 both told me when I asked if I should have been DIng a different way. K9 literally destroyed me without allowing me to attack him.


Throws to Bouncing Fish also combos at low %s.

 

[pikazz]

by my own experience, you can DI away from the First FAir, making it not a true combo and air dodgeable/NAir IIRC (or I have just been lucky meeting sheiks on smashladder/FG that cant chain FAirs)

but I do hate many of her attacks are so safe and have almost no room for punishes. i really hate how safe she are. heck even her UpB is a kill move that has asburd long I-frames

speaking of this topic, I found a perfect pic for this topic!

I am hype for Splatoon <3

 

[Chiroz]

by my own experience, you can DI away from the First FAir, making it not a true combo and air dodgeable/NAir IIRC (or I have just been lucky meeting sheiks on smashladder/FG that cant chain FAirs)

but I do hate many of her attacks are so safe and have almost no room for punishes. i really hate how safe she are. heck even her UpB is a kill move that has asburd long I-frames

speaking of this topic, I found a perfect pic for this topic!

I am hype for Splatoon <3

I will say, no one but K9 has F-Air chained me and I've played a good number of Sheiks. So I don't know what was going on. He's probably the best Sheik in all of So Cal, so there's that.


He did it like 5-6 times in 2 games though. Pretty consistently. And nothing I did mattered, he could just take me offstage and end with an aerial or bouncing fish and proceed to edge guard me. Seemed like a pretty uphill battle.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I will say, no one but K9 has F-Air chained me and I've played a good number of Sheiks. So I don't know what was going on. He's probably the best Sheik in all of So Cal, so there's that.


He did it like 5-6 times in 2 games thought. Pretty consistently. And nothing I did mattered, he could just take me offstage and end with an aerial or bouncing fish and proceed to edge guard me. Seemed like a pretty uphill battle.

I'd like to see what Zero and K9 can do against my Mewtwo. :3 I think I may make them rethink his viability.

 

[---]

Finally collected every Special Move in the Wii U version. Crazy Orders definitely makes things a lot easier, especially if you complete the challenges that give you a lot of money (such as Dr. Mario in Trophy Rush).

Also completed all the Smash Tour challenges and got every CD. Man, is that mode boring and completely random. Had to get out 3 extra controllers, and it took me 3 max turn playthroughs. Smash Run is so much more fun.


Aside from All Star mode, I'm finally going to dig into Mewtwo and online modes. lol

 

[Chiroz]

I'd like to see what Zero and K9 can do against my Mewtwo. :3 I think I may make them rethink his viability.

Most of the times you beat me by a little, and I am extremely bad at punishing obvious mistakes (something I am trying to get better at). Most of the times I knew what you were going for but I just fail at punishing it, something pros won't fail at most of the time. I haven't played Zero with my Mewtwo but K9 utterly destroyed me and you have to take into account that being predictable makes it even worse. I can link to a match between me and K9, but it's not a pretty sight. Although I had never played a single good Sheik as Mewtwo before that match (hadn't gone to a tourny as Mewtwo, I had only played FG Sheiks and such), so I've learned quite a bit since then.

IDK though, I've had many mix reactions when playing Mewtwo at tournies. Sometimes I do well and sometimes I get destroyed. At times I understand it was my own mistakes and that I can do better but sometimes it just feels like if I was playing another char I know I could have beaten the person I play against. And that feeling makes maining Mewtwo kind of sad.



Mewtwo isn't unviable though, and I haven't had anyone tell me he is. Even K9 after beating me told me that with practice he thinks Mewtwo can be decent but that it takes too much work to play a low tier.

 

[U-Throw]

I'd like to see what Zero and K9 can do against my Mewtwo. :3 I think I may make them rethink his viability.

I don't think ZeRo or K9 have said anything in regards to Mewtwo's viability. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the general consensus right now is that Mewtwo is very viable. I believe Mew2King has gone back on his word and said that Mewtwo has the potential to be one of the best characters in the game, and I know that Jtails thinks Mewtwo is in the top 15. I'm not sure about other competitive Smashers, but Jtails's opinion is definitely worth something, and Mew2King's opinion carries a lot of weight. To my knowledge, the only people who think Mewtwo is completely unviable at this point either don't play Smash much or haven't played a good Mewtwo. I wouldn't worry myself about it.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that Mewtwo would be top-tier level if these following changes occured

Add back wavedashing/crouch cancelling - and before you all say anything... These techniques would be of utmost importance and significance if they returned, because, as we already know, Mewtwo's down-tilt/up-tilt are amazing combo moves, but it's almost impossible to land moves of that caliber without risking getting hit, having to approach from the air, or doing a shield dash.
Wavedashing/Crouch-Cancelling would allow Mewtwo (and other fighters) to be able to actually use their up/down tilts while keeping some of their momentum, thus making them more reliable. This would be very huge for Mewtwo as it would allow his various combos for previously situational moves to become more accessible and overall useful. This would also help out for Disable... speaking of which...

Disable hitting on both sides - In Super Smash Bros. Disable is basically "an eye-contact energy move", but it's still energy, and you can't stop it's effects simply by "turning around". This move makes the least sense out of any move in the Smash Bros. series, even less sense than being able to pluck a Pikmin out of steel terrain, or from a cloud, or from a pitch-black void.
Also, Disable still launches airborne opponents, just not when they are stunned, which also needs to be fixed.

Up-throw being able to kill at 100% again - Self Explanatory.

Back-throw being able to kill at the center of FD at about 135% - Self Explanatory.

Forward-throw having a finishing hit that always lands, which kill opponents at the center of FD at about 148% - Self Explanatory.

Down-throw launches opponents at a higher trajectory - Self Explanatory.

Mewtwo's grab having more range - Self Explanatory.

Mewtwo having his Melee Shadow Claw back - While I can understand them changing it because Charizard has a similar move, screw Charizard. Mewtwo was in smash first and deserves to have his moves, not "crumbs-of-the-plate" moves. As for reliability, just increase the hitbox size and increase the moves knockback growth to compensate for not being able to pursue opponents offstage with it as well anymore.

Mewtwo Bair... - Give it less startup lag

Mewtwo's Uair deals more base knockback/knockback growth - Self Explanatory.

Change Mewtwo's Final Smash to something involving Mega Mewtwo X

I think that if all of these changes were to be made, then Mewtwo would be up to par with the rest of the cast, and maybe even better.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I think that Mewtwo would be top-tier level if these following changes occured

Add back wavedashing/crouch cancelling - and before you all say anything... These techniques would be of utmost importance and significance if they returned, because, as we already know, Mewtwo's down-tilt/up-tilt are amazing combo moves, but it's almost impossible to land moves of that caliber without risking getting hit, having to approach from the air, or doing a shield dash.
Wavedashing/Crouch-Cancelling would allow Mewtwo (and other fighters) to be able to actually use their up/down tilts while keeping some of their momentum, thus making them more reliable. This would be very huge for Mewtwo as it would allow his various combos for previously situational moves to become more accessible and overall useful. This would also help out for Disable... speaking of which...

Disable hitting on both sides - In Super Smash Bros. Disable is basically "an eye-contact energy move", but it's still energy, and you can't stop it's effects simply by "turning around". This move makes the least sense out of any move in the Smash Bros. series, even less sense than being able to pluck a Pikmin out of steel terrain, or from a cloud, or from a pitch-black void.
Also, Disable still launches airborne opponents, just not when they are stunned, which also needs to be fixed.

Up-throw being able to kill at 100% again - Self Explanatory.

Back-throw being able to kill at the center of FD at about 135% - Self Explanatory.

Forward-throw having a finishing hit that always lands, which kill opponents at the center of FD at about 148% - Self Explanatory.

Down-throw launches opponents at a higher trajectory - Self Explanatory.

Mewtwo's grab having more range - Self Explanatory.

Mewtwo having his Melee Shadow Claw back - While I can understand them changing it because Charizard has a similar move, screw Charizard. Mewtwo was in smash first and deserves to have his moves, not "crumbs-of-the-plate" moves. As for reliability, just increase the hitbox size and increase the moves knockback growth to compensate for not being able to pursue opponents offstage with it as well anymore.

Mewtwo Bair... - Give it less startup lag

Mewtwo's Uair deals more base knockback/knockback growth - Self Explanatory.

Change Mewtwo's Final Smash to something involving Mega Mewtwo X

I think that if all of these changes were to be made, then Mewtwo would be up to par with the rest of the cast, and maybe even better.

Up-throw killing at 100% is too much. It never even killed at 100% in Melee in the first place, except maybe on Jiggs.

EDIT: Nevermind, I think it did kill at around 100. My bad. Disregard this.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Add back wavedashing/crouch cancelling - and before you all say anything... These techniques would be of utmost importance and significance if they returned, because, as we already know, Mewtwo's down-tilt/up-tilt are amazing combo moves, but it's almost impossible to land moves of that caliber without risking getting hit, having to approach from the air, or doing a shield dash.
Wavedashing/Crouch-Cancelling would allow Mewtwo (and other fighters) to be able to actually use their up/down tilts while keeping some of their momentum, thus making them more reliable. This would be very huge for Mewtwo as it would allow his various combos for previously situational moves to become more accessible and overall useful. This would also help out for Disable... speaking of which...

Unless it's given to only Mewtwo and no other characters, I think this would actually work more against then Mewtwo then for him. Sure, Mewtwo would be able to use it...but it'd benefit characters who are far better at rushdown then Mewtwo is to begin with. It'd also mess up Mewtwo's defensive play some, which is one of his better traits.

Mewtwo having his Melee Shadow Claw back - While I can understand them changing it because Charizard has a similar move, screw Charizard. Mewtwo was in smash first and deserves to have his moves, not "crumbs-of-the-plate" moves. As for reliability, just increase the hitbox size and increase the moves knockback growth to compensate for not being able to pursue opponents offstage with it as well anymore.

I think Fair is pretty awesome as is.
Combing into itself at low percentages and killing at high percentages is just great.

 

[Chiroz]

I think that Mewtwo would be top-tier level if these following changes occured

Add back wavedashing/crouch cancelling - and before you all say anything... These techniques would be of utmost importance and significance if they returned, because, as we already know, Mewtwo's down-tilt/up-tilt are amazing combo moves, but it's almost impossible to land moves of that caliber without risking getting hit, having to approach from the air, or doing a shield dash.
Wavedashing/Crouch-Cancelling would allow Mewtwo (and other fighters) to be able to actually use their up/down tilts while keeping some of their momentum, thus making them more reliable. This would be very huge for Mewtwo as it would allow his various combos for previously situational moves to become more accessible and overall useful. This would also help out for Disable... speaking of which...

Disable hitting on both sides - In Super Smash Bros. Disable is basically "an eye-contact energy move", but it's still energy, and you can't stop it's effects simply by "turning around". This move makes the least sense out of any move in the Smash Bros. series, even less sense than being able to pluck a Pikmin out of steel terrain, or from a cloud, or from a pitch-black void.
Also, Disable still launches airborne opponents, just not when they are stunned, which also needs to be fixed.

Up-throw being able to kill at 100% again - Self Explanatory.

Back-throw being able to kill at the center of FD at about 135% - Self Explanatory.

Forward-throw having a finishing hit that always lands, which kill opponents at the center of FD at about 148% - Self Explanatory.

Down-throw launches opponents at a higher trajectory - Self Explanatory.

Mewtwo's grab having more range - Self Explanatory.

Mewtwo having his Melee Shadow Claw back - While I can understand them changing it because Charizard has a similar move, screw Charizard. Mewtwo was in smash first and deserves to have his moves, not "crumbs-of-the-plate" moves. As for reliability, just increase the hitbox size and increase the moves knockback growth to compensate for not being able to pursue opponents offstage with it as well anymore.

Mewtwo Bair... - Give it less startup lag

Mewtwo's Uair deals more base knockback/knockback growth - Self Explanatory.

Change Mewtwo's Final Smash to something involving Mega Mewtwo X

I think that if all of these changes were to be made, then Mewtwo would be up to par with the rest of the cast, and maybe even better.

Crouch Cancelling is in the game though. It just scales instead of being some set amount which makes it way less potent at low % and way more potent at high %. The difference is, in Melee, if you were hit with an attack that did less than X knockback then you weren't knockbacked at all (since CC would reduce it to 0) and thus you could instantly retaliate, in Smash 4 that will never happen since it scales it will always be a % of Y, so you will never get that instant retaliation.

And to be honest you shouldn't. I already hate chars like Yoshi and Luigi who can punish you even when you land a hit on them, it would be annoying if everyone could do that, specially for Mewtwo who has a lot of low knockback moves (like all of his tilts + N-Air).

 

[Deleted member]

Crouch Cancelling is in the game though. It just scales instead of being some set amount which makes it way less potent at low % and way more potent at high %. The difference is, in Melee, if you were hit with an attack that did less than X knockback then you weren't knockbacked at all (since CC would reduce it to 0) and thus you could instantly retaliate, in Smash 4 that will never happen since it scales it will always be a % of Y, so you will never get that instant retaliation.

And to be honest you shouldn't. I already hate chars like Yoshi and Luigi who can punish you even when you land a hit on them, it would be annoying if everyone could do that, specially for Mewtwo who has a lot of low knockback moves (like all of his tilts + N-Air).

What I meant by crouch-cancelling was the ability to cancel into your crouching animation by tapping down once you started running, but maybe that's dash/run cancelling.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I played a little bit of M2 today in friendlies at the tourney I hosted (and subsequently won) today.

He's so much fun, but he's no

Smooth Criminal

 

[ZephyrZ]

Oh my gosh, I never new this existed.

These figures are just incredible. Just look at that Mewtwo!

Spoiler

Actually those rocks are kind of ugly, but cool nonetheless.

I'm not going to hate on amiibo or anything, I ahve a few myself, but most of them don't even look half this good. I really want these things now.

Edit:

I'm geeking out now, guys.

 

[cstonic]

Oh my gosh, I never new this existed.

These figures are just incredible. Just look at that Mewtwo!

Spoiler

Actually those rocks are kind of ugly, but cool nonetheless.

I'm not going to hate on amiibo or anything, I ahve a few myself, but most of them don't even look half this good. I really want these things now.

Edit:

I'm geeking out now, guys.

I want the Mewtwo one so bad ; n ;

 

[Golden Sun]

Anyone else think the background on the omega wrecking crew stage has a "anime" feeling to it?
or just a japan city, but looks like a background of a city in some anime

 

[cstonic]

@ NonSpecificGuy OMGGGGGGG HES BACK









He may have already returned but I dont frequent this thread as much lol

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Wait, M2K actually likes Mewtwo now?
-.-
So much for being a Mewtwo king...he only decides to use him after he finds out he's viable.
What a joke.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Wait, M2K actually likes Mewtwo now?
-.-
So much for being a Mewtwo king...he only decides to use him after he finds out he's viable.
What a joke.

Hey, he plays tournaments to win. He's a proffesional who makes a living off this game, isn't he? Intentionally putting himself at a severe disadvantage just wouldn't be wise.

I hear he uses Melee Mewtwo in friendlies, though.

 

[Demon-oni]

Wait, M2K actually likes Mewtwo now?
-.-
So much for being a Mewtwo king...he only decides to use him after he finds out he's viable.
What a joke.

Top players usually have more pride in their play than in their character. He may decide to not main low tiers, but that's big money they throw around up there so I don't really blame him.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wait, M2K actually likes Mewtwo now?
-.-
So much for being a Mewtwo king...he only decides to use him after he finds out he's viable.
What a joke.

He did play Mewtwo early on, and even in some smaller tourneys recently, in Melee.

'd

@ NonSpecificGuy OMGGGGGGG HES BACK









He may have already returned but I dont frequent this thread as much lol

 

[Karsticles]

I would love to sew crouch canceling return.

I am 3-0 at Revelation in Denver so far with only using Mewtwo. Top 32 is tomorrow. Hopefully M2K gets seeded far away from me.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Where did M2K decide that Mewtwo may be viable? I want to see for myself.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I still think it proves he has less skill if he needs a top tier character to get him wins.

 

[Demon-oni]

Wanna play some rounds speed?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I still think it proves he has less skill if he needs a top tier character to get him wins.

Using top tier characters to beat other top tier characters makes you unskilled?

I should go pick up Sheik, then. That should make getting 1st place in large-scale tournaments a cake-walk!

 

[ORVO5]

I still think it proves he has less skill if he needs a top tier character to get him wins.

I just think he should change his moniker if he's not using Mewtwo for tourneys. That's the point right?

 

[U-Throw]

I still think it proves he has less skill if he needs a top tier character to get him wins.

Speed, I love you, but this just isn't true. Using high-tier characters doesn't mean he has any less skill. It just means that he wants to win. In Melee, Mew2King could play a large majority of the cast at a high level, but because the balance in Melee was awful, he stuck with the top-tiers. He's considered the second best Melee Mewtwo player in the world, second only to Taj, but Melee Mewtwo is so bad that winning with him is very difficult at high-level play. Even Taj agrees that Mewtwo isn't a great choice for high-level tournaments, and Mewtwo is one of his mains. Also, most competitive players choose to use high-tier characters, so a lot of matches are high-tier vs. high-tier, and winning matches like those takes a lot of skill. Plus, this isn't even taking into account all of the pressure that's put on him whenever he plays in tournaments. I can't imagine functioning well with that much stress weighing on me. I can pretty much guarantee you that Mew2King could completely demolish all of this thread's regulars with Zelda. He's not one of the 5 Gods for kicks and giggles: he earned it because he's one of the best players on the planet, regardless of what character he uses.

Also, I don't think he's using Mewtwo. He's sticking with Diddy Kong, I believe.

 

[pikazz]

Sheik in melee is one of the or if not the easiest character to learn thanks to her "Low Risk, High Reward" play of style. (and Melees balance was really broken)

same applies to sheik in smash4, except perhaps require some training with Bouncing Fish

sadly, many of the top tier character is "Low Risk, High Reward" while many Low tier has "High Risk, High/Low Reward" sadly

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I still think it proves he has less skill if he needs a top tier character to get him wins.

That literally proves nothing lol.

 

[meleebrawler]

Sheik in melee is one of the or if not the easiest character to learn thanks to her "Low Risk, High Reward" play of style. (and Melees balance was really broken)

same applies to sheik in smash4, except perhaps require some training with Bouncing Fish

sadly, many of the top tier character is "Low Risk, High Reward" while many Low tier has "High Risk, High/Low Reward" sadly

Just playing Melee competitively period requires a fairly severe learning curve, no matter who you use.

 

[Schnee117]

I still think it proves he has less skill if he needs a top tier character to get him wins.

That's a very... common, salty TF2 P2P attitude.
"Oh you killed me as Soldier go play a more skilled class like Spy!" For Example.

If it gets the job done then use it.

 

[pikazz]

Just playing Melee competitively period requires a fairly severe learning curve, no matter who you use.

I removed the common melee terms (W-dash, L-Cancel ect), but Sheik is still the easiest to learn and be best thanks with her Low Risk, High Reward attacks. example FTilt, FAir and Needle Edge Guarding

 

[Deleted member]

I think that Speed has a point. I have been using this same point as well for the past 3 years. If you have to play top-tier characters to win, then you're a noob and a coward, and if you aren't confident enough in yourself to win as a "bad" character, then how good are you? You all need to stop defending these players just because they win. I could go whip up a Brawl Hack that makes Mario do 999% on all of his attacks, win every tournament I attend (if he doesn't get banned), and call myself the greatest players in the world, but am I? No. I'd be a noob who had to make an overpowered character to win, and in real-smash terms, quote "good players" play their hacked Mario (Pikachu/Fox/Metaknight/Sheik+Diddy) in order to win as well.

When I play competitive Melee, I'm sticking with my Melee-two, regardless of how "viable" he is.

 

[Schnee117]

I think that Speed has a point. I have been using this same point as well for the past 3 years. If you have to play top-tier characters to win, then you're a noob and a coward, and if you aren't confident enough in yourself to win as a "bad" character, then how good are you? You all need to stop defending these players just because they win. I could go whip up a Brawl Hack that makes Mario do 999% on all of his attacks, win every tournament I attend (if he doesn't get banned), and call myself the greatest players in the world, but am I? No. I'd be a noob who had to make an overpowered character to win, and in real-smash terms, quote "good players" play their hacked Mario (Pikachu/Fox/Metaknight/Sheik+Diddy) in order to win as well.

When I play competitive Melee, I'm sticking with my Melee-two, regardless of how "viable" he is.

Is this even worthy of a proper response? Billy Madison pls.

Spoiler

 

[LIQUID12A]

*speed is on speed joke*

I think it's debatable that some top tiers actually need more skill than others. Now, I get it, hoo-hah in it's prime was a stupidly easy tactic that won games. But someone who is mindlessly picking top tiers to win without getting to know the character they pick is only setting themselves up to lose. Like any character, top tiers need to be experimented with, because they, like many others, are not "pick up and play" characters like, say, Mario. I could use Sheik right now and I'd probably do well on FG because, well, it's FG, but against a human opponent who is almost certainly equal in skill, I'd get smashed into the ground because I lack experience with the character. I don't know of Sheik's strengths and weaknesses, what to use and when, or her general gist. So picking up top tiers simply to win is going to get you smashed unless you dedicate the time to learning them and truly making it your goal to win as much as possible.

I like to win as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I'll pick up a character that I don't like just to do so. I'm content with winning with my skill as either Samus, Lucina, Robin, Bowser or Mewtwo, all characters ranked as either subpar or bad.