[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[JohnKnight416]

Does anyone here think that we might actually get Noctis from FF15 as the Square-Enix Newcomer instead of the other characters in the voting roster up above? I mean FF15 was popular enough to get Noctis to make his way over to Tekken 7. It's possible that he might do the same for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Who said that newcomers need to be from a game that is on the Switch? There's no such restriction that newcomers should be only from a game that has been on a nintendo console. Like previously, Final Fantasy has never had any of their games on a Nintendo console and we then later got Cloud as a DLC character in Smash 4.

*Shakes head*
We've got FFVII on the Switch now. Could've likely been part of the deal, what with the cWii U dying out at the time.

Even if that isn't the case, that's back when Sakurai had more say in the roster. Let's not forget that Nintendo are the ones calling the shots with this DLC.

You have to change the line of thinking to stuff that benefits Nintendo the most in the long term.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Guys.

I made an entire post conceding I was almost defeated last night.
But this damn leak isn't what's doing me in.

Let me restate it again.

We have known about P5R and P5U for ages.
P5 Arena being delayed due to the GB fighter makes no sense because they're entirely different teams working on either game.
The GB fighter's existence has been known for a month now. (I understand that it would take some effort for a Japanese person to come upon these Western leaks, but I'm appalled that that tidbit is what's causing us to really believe this leak).

The leak has nothing else going for it except for things we've known about for ages.

I know this is late and Polar came out and said that the Atlus side is likely, but I'd like to say this about how unlikely it is that this leak is taken from our side of the internet.

All of the info we've known has only been known on this side of the internet. For someone to put all of this together they would have to:

• Be fluent in Japanese and English (or at least know enough English to work around the English side of the internet)
• Know about the prominent leakers for Smash Speculation and look into their other claims scattered around Reddit, Smashboards, and GameFAQs OR be in one of the right English communities to learn this information
• Make a couple of correct assumptions about insider information (remember, Verge, Hitagi, etc. have made claims about many different games) and Atlus inside information (P5A being delayed, P5R being the remake instead of P5U, etc.)
• Put it all together into one cohesive "leak" and post in on 2chan

Granted, people have put in more effort for fake leaks in the past (See: The Grinch and Jeuxvideo hoaxes), but the probability of this occurring is very low.

So here’s a new question that might have already been answered before it was proposed, but does Erdrick hurt Sora’s chances? The whole Disney thing is really confusing.

To be honest?

I don't know. I honestly don't.

Not necessarily? Negotiations for Sora are held between Nintendo and Square Enix, so he might not even technically be a Square Enix rep, even though his game is developed by them. He'd be a Disney rep since that's who owns the Kingdom Hearts IP.

I could see Nintendo going for it, but I definitely don't expect it.

 

[REZERO]

Neku would be high on the list of candidates I think. The only issue is people keep mentioning the leak.

Sometimes I wish we could have a normal discussion without someone talking about a leak.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Does anyone here think that we might actually get Noctis from FF15 as the Square-Enix Newcomer instead of the other characters in the voting roster up above?

I doubt noctis, especially considering they halted all their planned DLC, and (at least as far as I know) he's not a terribly popular choice next to juggarnauts like sora and sephiroth. But you never know.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Neku would be high on the list of candidates I think. The only issue is people keep mentioning the leak.

Sometimes I wish we could have a normal discussion without someone talking about a leak.

I think Neku would be a contender, except that he's outclassed by our big 4 (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, and Geno). Even without the leak I'd call Lara Croft slightly more likely than Neku.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the point of contention here is a rep that is specific to mario RPG. Since Mario, Peach and Bowser rep the series as a whole, it seems disingenuous to count them as a rep specifically for that game. Generally when we look at a series as big as mario, one looks at the factors that set the other games apart. Rosalina, for instance reps mario galaxy, that's what we think of when we think about mario galaxy, same with cappy for odyssey, or fludd for sunshine, and so on and so forth.

I think at this point it just becomes something that I need to disagree. I don't think a particular game has to be represented specifically, especially since we got a lot of Mario RPGs (PM and M&L), and we have the recurring cast represented as playable characters (if you want to make an argument as if Paper Mario needs a spot thats some other debate). Rosalina moved on and became part of the main cast of Mario, being playable in 3D world. Fludd and Cappy are represented in Smash as part of Mario's moveset so the degree of representation is different (same with the cape from SMW). And if we go for that, Peach would very well represent SMRPG with her frying pan attack, and her FS that puts enemies to sleep and can cure her just like her kit in SMRPG.

Technically, Geno was a side character. Yes. The plot involved him. But he was no more important than the other party members. Even Mallow got more moments in the story and received more character development than Geno as a result.

I wouldn't consider him a side character as I would still consider him important in the same vein as party members such as Barret or Cid from FFVII, Robo or Frog from CT, Alena and Torneko from DQ4, and so on. He's not the protagonist and he isn't developed as well but he has still some involvement in the plot.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Neku would be high on the list of candidates I think. The only issue is people keep mentioning the leak.

Sometimes I wish we could have a normal discussion without someone talking about a leak.

It seems largely impossible considering the leaks are the most relevant information regarding a SE rep, and that's going to be the topic du-jour until either a character reveal or an information deconfirmation clears up the speculation space.

 

[childishgamgeno]

I feel like one of the main reasons not everyone supports Geno is that most of the time he's brought up, it's only in relation to Smash. Chances are, whenever someone mentions Geno, it has to do with that person wanting him for Smash rather than discussing the character and his game. Yes. Geno would be a very interesting fighter with a unique moveset if he was made playable, but that applies to many other characters as well. It's not necessarily that Geno would be a bad character choice. I just think, unless Square Enix puts Geno in more games and let's him actually do SOMETHING, there are a significant amount of other characters that should get in before him. As it stands right now, however, Geno doesn't have much of a legacy to stand on. His game does, but not the character itself. I know that having a legacy doesn't ultimately matter for a character's inclusion, but when you have the ability to put nearly ANY video game character in Smash as paid DLC, picking Geno just doesn't make much sense to me. Go ahead and bash me all you want just because I don't completely worship your star spirit, but I don't care. This isn't a Geno hugbox. Some of the Geno fanaticism in this thread from users like OptimisticStrifer is only making me like the character less. Deal with it.

I’m not bashing you at all, but if that’s how you want to take it, okay. No one was asking you to worship Geno, and to be quite frank with you, kinda don’t care if you like the character or not? I was arguing how moot the “Smash bubble” point is.

Smash is the ultimate opportunity to bring Geno back into the fold. Period. Square Enix cannot simply just put Geno back in another game. The game industry has evolved since SMRPG and so have Square and Nintendo respectively, as companies. When..exactly is Square Enix gonna try to put Geno back in a game with cooperation for Nintendo? If you look at past Square x Nintendo games, they barely used any Square Enix characters outside of strictly Dragon Quest characters. Which was one game. Nintendo, also cannot just put Geno in another game without cooperation from Square leaving the character in a limbo of sorts. Seeing as how Smash is the ultimate crossover game, it would be the perfect opportunity to bring the character back into the fold, with cooperation on both sides.

It’s absolutely ludicrous and counterintuitive to say that SMRPG is a legacy and Geno is not, when Geno comes directly from that game. His popularity stems from that game. And because of that popularity, it reached Sakurai and Nintendo last Smash, and HE received the Mii Costume (the only one with a splash screen mind you) not any of your other “legacy picks”.

Geno doesn’t have to make sense to YOU. It made sense to Sakurai, Smash’s creator. And additionally, it would, very similarly to Dragon Quest, be a celebration of Square and Nintendo’s cooperation during the NES time, combining that with a unique moveset and aesthetic, as well as being heavily fan demanded, it certainly makes sense to me. Especially since he’s a SQUARE character made for a NINTENDO franchise. His existence in itself, is a crossover between the companies, more so than anyone else on the list.

Isn't super mario rpg still technically a Mario game? Doesn't really entirely stands out as entirely different game that isn't part of the Mario series.

It was a joke lol

No matter how you try to spin it, Geno is still a Mario character, so it's understandable that others including myself would rather get a character from a completely different franchise like Sora, Master Chief, Doomguy, Sans, Steve, etc. This is the biggest opportunity that Nintendo has to go wild with DLC, and having another Mario character right after Piranha Plant for the Fighter Pass would disappoint some people. I wouldn't mind, of course, but not everyone is the same way.

Again, joke.

Not going against the fact y’all would rather have a brand new franchise. But I doubt people would mind if Geno was included. Geno is a completely different case than say, Fawful or Paper Mario. PPlant is free, anyway. People would probably be more upset if Geno was in because it’s a meme to hate on Geno. Lets also remember this is a Nintendo game with Mario as the flagship. That’s their bread and butter. They’re not going to just add any character. I also bet people wouldn’t be upset if they got Waluigi on top of P Plant.

SMRPG is a Mario game, and Mario is the protagonist. Is Geno a party member? yes, alongside Mallow, Bowser, and Peach. If you don't consider Mario, Peach, and Bowser, as SMRPG reps I think we may have a vastly different opinion as to what is a series rep.

Lmaooo oh my god.

Those characters appear in games outside of SMRPG. I meant specifically Geno and Mallow.

The fervor for Geno started way before that. Regardless, many people on this forum do tend to overestimate his actual popularity. I see far more people who want Sora now.

Many people on this forum seem to act like he’s not as popular as he is for some reason too. Not saying Sora isn’t popular, but cmon y’all lets be realistic here. Even this THREAD has the most votes for Geno, despite Erdrick looking SUPER likely


Y’all wild lmao

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Neku would be high on the list of candidates I think. The only issue is people keep mentioning the leak.

Sometimes I wish we could have a normal discussion without someone talking about a leak.

I don't mind talking about the leak. But things get dumb when people try to push it onto others like it's the bible. That kind of mentality is part of what made Joker freeing us from those chains so uplifting.

 

[JohnKnight416]

I doubt noctis, especially considering they halted all their planned DLC, and (at least as far as I know) he's not a terribly popular choice next to juggarnauts like sora and sephiroth. But you never know.

Noctis might not be as popular as a character compared to the other representatives in the voting roster above. But you can't deny that FF15 is an amazing game which is still receiving DLC content btw.

 

[REZERO]

I don't mind talking about the leak. But things get dumb when people try to push it onto others like it's the bible. That kind of mentality is part of what made Joker freeing us from those chains so uplifting.

Yeah it bothers me that people want to say "Hey I think its this character" and then you get like 5 people running into the thread screaming leak hitagi and 5ch.

LIKE I GET IT, EACH PAGE OF THIS THREAD HAS AT LEAST ONE PERSON TALKING ABOUT THE LEAK. Holy crap.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I wouldn't consider him a side character as I would still consider him important in the same vein as party members such as Barret or Cid from FFVII, Robo or Frog from CT, Alena and Torneko from DQ4, and so on. He's not the protagonist and he isn't developed as well but he has still some involvement in the plot.

Yeah. Perhaps "side character" wasn't the proper way to describe Geno. Other characters like Johnny Jones, Croco, and Booster were definitive side characters. My bad.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I think at this point it just becomes something that I need to disagree. I don't think a particular game has to be represented specifically, especially since we got a lot of Mario RPGs (PM and M&L), and we have the recurring cast represented as playable characters (if you want to make an argument as if Paper Mario needs a spot thats some other debate). Rosalina moved on and became part of the main cast of Mario, being playable in 3D world. Fludd and Cappy are represented in Smash as part of Mario's moveset so the degree of representation is different (same with the cape from SMW). And if we go for that, Peach would very well represent SMRPG with her frying pan attack, and her FS that puts enemies to sleep and can cure her just like her kit in SMRPG.

That's perfectly fair, and I don't wholly disagree either. I don't think every individual game needs a rep, though I think the mario RPGs as a whole could use something to represent them outside of a move or two. (if they were really gonna have peach's final smash rep mario RPG, they should've gone with psych bomb instead >.>) Personally I'd like to see some of the original characters from mario RPG make it into the official canon. It's a shame that they're stuck in square's gay baby jail. Though even if somehow nintendo did come to acquire their rights, there's still the problem of shigeru miyamoto being allergic to having original characters reappear in more than one game. (I'm looking at you, sticker star)

Noctis might not be as popular as a character compared to the other representatives in the voting roster above. But you can't deny that FF15 is an amazing game which is still receiving DLC content btw.

I tried the demo and it didn't hold me for very long (but I have trouble getting into final fantasy games in-general, save for a few) but all the people I know who've played it seem to love it, so I'll grant it that. Though I was under the impression that the FFXIV DLC they did was the last one they were doing.

 

[PsySmasher]

Neku would be high on the list of candidates I think. The only issue is people keep mentioning the leak.

Sometimes I wish we could have a normal discussion without someone talking about a leak.

I hear ya, I'm slightly expecting/hoping for a Bravely Default rep myself.

But unfortunately, leaks dominate the vast majority of discussions, since they make certain characters more likely (or seem more likely).

 

[Nemuresu]

Neku would be high on the list of candidates I think. The only issue is people keep mentioning the leak.

Sometimes I wish we could have a normal discussion without someone talking about a leak.

To be completely honest, I think any Square character could factor a "nice surprise" in one way or another. Even the ones outside leaks can do that.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Noctis might not be as popular as a character compared to the other representatives in the voting roster above. But you can't deny that FF15 is an amazing game which is still receiving DLC content btw.

You mean the game that Square loves so much that they annouced they were canceling great portions of DLC, and how it may have cost them millions, not to mention, the falling out with Tabata? Yeaaah. No. Noctis isn't even really THAT big to get them to want to shill a character leading a game that they're pulling the chord on.

Even without the leak I'd call Lara Croft slightly more likely than Neku

Okay back up. Remember how you said Sora should be unlikely because of his release game on competing hardware and how I pointed out how you thinking Dante would make it in contradicted things?

Yeah buddy. Lara Croft over Neku would be that contradiction tenfold! Lol. A character with releases fresh everywhere but the Switch over Neku, who's even had a KH appearance on 3DS, and has his game remade on the Switch in quite the time frame.

Unless you've got news of Tomb Raider for the Switch ! XD

 

[REZERO]

I hear ya, I'm slightly expecting/hoping for a Bravely Default rep myself.

But unfortunately, leaks dominate the vast majority of discussions, since they make certain characters more likely (or seem more likely).

Like Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said people tend to invalidate other arguments because of a leak. You don't know its gonna happen till you see the front page talking about Erdrick being in the roster.

Its just a poor way of explaining why anything else is unlikely.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

It's only fair to expect more people to criticize Geno if Geno fans do the same to Erdrick and other characters like they have done earlier. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

It's only fair to expect more people to criticize Geno if Geno fans do the same to Erdrick and other characters like they have done earlier. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I dunno who this is directed at, but criticize away. I ain't hurting.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I dunno who this is directed at, but criticize away. I ain't hurting.

I'm talking about the overall attitude they have had towards Erdrick lately. They keep disregarding him as being another "generic anime swordsman" from a niche franchise. Not to mention that one guy's earlier comment about putting the character in as being morally wrong.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I’m not bashing you at all, but if that’s how you want to take it, okay. No one was asking you to worship Geno, and to be quite frank with you, kinda don’t care if you like the character or not? I was arguing how moot the “Smash bubble” point is.

Smash is the ultimate opportunity to bring Geno back into the fold. Period. Square Enix cannot simply just put Geno back in another game. The game industry has evolved since SMRPG and so have Square and Nintendo respectively, as companies. When..exactly is Square Enix gonna try to put Geno back in a game with cooperation for Nintendo? If you look at past Square x Nintendo games, they barely used any Square Enix characters outside of strictly Dragon Quest characters. Which was one game. Nintendo, also cannot just put Geno in another game without cooperation from Square leaving the character in a limbo of sorts. Seeing as how Smash is the ultimate crossover game, it would be the perfect opportunity to bring the character back into the fold, with cooperation on both sides.

It’s absolutely ludicrous and counterintuitive to say that SMRPG is a legacy and Geno is not, when Geno comes directly from that game. His popularity stems from that game. And because of that popularity, it reached Sakurai and Nintendo last Smash, and HE received the Mii Costume (the only one with a splash screen mind you) not any of your other “legacy picks”.

Geno doesn’t have to make sense to YOU. It made sense to Sakurai, Smash’s creator. And additionally, it would, very similarly to Dragon Quest, be a celebration of Square and Nintendo’s cooperation during the NES time, combining that with a unique moveset and aesthetic, as well as being heavily fan demanded, it certainly makes sense to me. Especially since he’s a SQUARE character made for a NINTENDO franchise. His existence in itself, is a crossover between the companies, more so than anyone else on the list.

Many people on this forum seem to act like he’s not as popular as he is for some reason too. Not saying Sora isn’t popular, but cmon y’all lets be realistic here. Even this THREAD has the most votes for Geno, despite Erdrick looking SUPER likely


Y’all wild lmao

I agree with you on most of these points, but a couple.

The "legacy" of SMRPG comes from the gameplay and feel of the future Mario RPGs. Timed attacks, Bowser and Peach in more invested roles, sometimes even being playable, more whimsical and comedic plot points, using weaponry and equipment from the Mushroom Kingdom, etc. have all become staples of Mario RPG games going forward. SMRPG laid the foundation for future Mario games to come, but Geno isn't a part of that. The two are closely related, but Geno isn't necessarily the crutch behind SMRPG's legacy.

Nintendo has crossed over with Square Enix more than once. Mario Hoops 3 on 3 had Final Fantasy characters, and Fortune Street contained Mario and Dragon Quest characters on both DS and Wii, so it's more common then you'd think.

While Geno does make sense to Sakurai, something is still keeping him out, so there's clearly a disconnect somewhere. Also, multiple other Mii-related fighters received splash screens, such as Abraham Lincoln, Ice T, and members of Japanese idol group AKB48. While Geno was the only costume to receive one, he might not be as special as people make him out to be in that regard.

You should realize that Geno has the most amount of support on this website. At times this thread reads like Geno fans defending Geno to their dying breath against the skeptics and the nonbelievers, and a majority of the people who post here frequently are from the Geno thread, as evidenced by the fair amount of Geno avatars and overall support. Because of this, it's only natural he'd have more votes because there are more people here who support him.

Geno's popularity isn't as big as you make it out to be, nor is it as small as SuperSceptile makes it out to be. At the end of the day Geno is a popular fan pick, sure, but he sits among many other popular fan picks in a veritable no mans land of being popular but not necessarily having the popularity required to make the jump to playable.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Who the heck is Geno and why exactly do a lot of ppl want him in Smash?

‘Cause he cool, dawg. Dude shoots lasers out of his fingers.

Is he really worth being put into the game as a playable character even though he has only appeared once in an old 1990's game?

Yeah, why not?

What do you think? I personally would rather see someone who's a main character of an ongoing gaming series besides Geno such as Sora from Kingdom Hearts who btw is gonna appear in Kingdom Hearts 3 which is coming out soon.

I think both. Personally I want Sora more, but I think Geno just deserves it. I’ve been supporting since Brawl, and I know there are some that have been at it since before Melee. I say give fans what they want.

The Smash Bubble argument is so getting so stale. The Smash Bubble is HUGE for one.

If DQ isn’t as niche than it’s arguable that Geno isn’t as niche as people keep saying he is.

I mean, literally google “Geno”. Look at how many lists he’s on for this game.



I agree. I’m sure people will.


Don’t you only mean just a few? Lol

Isabelle? Incineroar? Ken? The only West newcomers picks I really see are Ridley and K. Rool.

How were Isabelle, Incineroar and Ken Japan picks? Isabelle is definitely a worldwide pick, and as far as I know Incineroar is a nowhere pick. Was Ken a huge want of Japan’s? Because Sakurai never really mentioned it being a factor in his inclusion, and I always figured it was because of the obvious connection between the concept of an Echo and him.

Now that you mention it, I don't recall hearing Geno from any other topics other than Smash. Heck I never even heard about Geno before in my entire life until I starting hearing some people wanting him as a newcomer in Smash Ultimate. It was only after the announcement of Smash Ultimate on Nintendo E3 2018 did I then started hearing a bit about Geno.

You mustn’t have been here for long.

Who said that newcomers need to be from a game that is on the Switch? There's no such restriction that newcomers should be only from a game that has been on a nintendo console. Like previously, Final Fantasy has never had any of their games on a Nintendo console and we then later got Cloud as a DLC character in Smash 4.

Final Fantasy never had any of their games on a Nintendo console.

Alright, how old are you?

 

[StormC]

I'll believe Steve when I see it.

You got 5-6 different leakers that are insistent XYZ is in and so far Vergeben is the only one with anything to show for it.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I'm talking about the overall attitude they have had towards Erdrick lately. They keep disregarding him as being another "generic anime swordsman" from a niche franchise. Not to mention that one guy's earlier comment about putting the character in as being morally wrong.

Fair enough, I suppose. I think people could definitely stand to put aside the vitriol for a couple hot seconds and have an actual discussion. Tensions are high, I suppose. But as one geno supporter among many, allow me to extend an olive branch.

I'll generally try my best not to let my bias do the talking, but always feel free to let me know if I'm not acting up to code, as it were.

 

[Deleted member]

Lmaooo oh my god.

Those characters appear in games outside of SMRPG. I meant specifically Geno and Mallow.

Why do Geno and Mallow need this special treatment of representation as playable? Mario RPGs moved without them just fine, and I would argue that the most important element of the Mario RPG series (Mario) is playable since day one.

That's perfectly fair, and I don't wholly disagree either. I don't think every individual game needs a rep, though I think the mario RPGs as a whole could use something to represent them outside of a move or two. (if they were really gonna have peach's final smash rep mario RPG, they should've gone with psych bomb instead >.>) Personally I'd like to see some of the original characters from mario RPG make it into the official canon. It's a shame that they're stuck in square's gay baby jail. Though even if somehow nintendo did come to acquire their rights, there's still the problem of shigeru miyamoto being allergic to having original characters reappear in more than one game. (I'm looking at you, sticker star)

Agree to disagree, I think the Mario cast represent Mario RPGs already well enough, especially since a lot of the stuff for Peach and Bowser's development came from SMRPG. I personally don't mind characters not appearing in more than one game, as I feel that most of the RPG's cast stories are tied at the end of their games.

 

[REZERO]

And if I'm being honest the way some of these people phrase things when they get leaks

"My sources say that it will rain tomorrow. I can't confirm or deny that it will but it will rain. I can't guarantee that it will happen because I was told not to say anything, but just so you are aware my source is the weatherman from abc."

Like we're supposed to believe this because the leaker got one thing right?

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Fair enough, I suppose. I think people could definitely stand to put aside the vitriol for a couple hot seconds and have an actual discussion. Tensions are high, I suppose. But as one geno supporter among many, allow me to extend an olive branch.

I'll generally try my best not to let my bias do the talking, but always feel free to let me know if I'm not acting up to code, as it were.

It's alright. I shouldn't have been so harsh. At the end of the day, Geno, Sora, Erdrick, and others all have their pros and cons for being chosen as newcomers. Regardless of who gets in, I'll be happy.

 

[childishgamgeno]

It's only fair to expect more people to criticize Geno if Geno fans do the same to Erdrick and other characters like they have done earlier. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I’m not against Geno criticism. I know there are as many points against Geno as there are for him. I simply point out the things I disagree with, as I’m sure you will point out the things you disagree with. But let’s not pretend it’s ONLY Geno fans criticizing Erdrick’s inclusion. As tehponycorn’s statement, there are a large amount of them on this website and as such, in the thread so it may seem that way.

I agree with you on most of these points, but a couple.

The "legacy" of SMRPG comes from the gameplay. Timed attacks, Bowser and Peach in more invested roles, sometimes even being playable, more whimsical and comedic plot points, using weaponry and equipment from the Mushroom Kingdom, etc. have all become staples of Mario RPG games going forward since then. SMRPG laid the foundation for future Mario games to come, but Geno isn't a part of that. The two are closely related, but Geno isn't necessarily the crutch behind SMRPG's legacy.

Nintendo has crossed over with Square Enix more than once. Mario Hoops 3 on 3 had Final Fantasy characters, and Fortune Street contained Mario and Dragon Quest characters on both DS and Wii, so it's more common then you'd think.

While Geno does make sense to Sakurai, something is still keeping him out, so there's clearly a disconnect somewhere. Also, multiple other Mii-related fighters received splash screens, such as Abraham Lincoln, Ice T, and members of Japanese idol group AKB48. While Geno was the only costume to receive one, he might not be as special as people make him out to be.

You also should realize that Geno has the most amount of support on this website. At times this thread reads like Geno fans defending Geno to their dying breath against the skeptics and the nonbelievers, and a majority of the people who post here frequently are from the Geno thread, as evidenced by the fair amount of Geno avatars and overall support. Because of this, it's only natural he'd have more votes because there are more people here who support him.

Geno's popularity isn't as big as you make it out to be, nor is it as small as SuperSceptile makes it out to be. At the end of the day Geno is a popular fan pick, sure, but he sits among many other popular fan picks in a veritable no mans land of being popular, but not necessarily having the popularity required to make the jump to playable.

I agree with almost all of this. However:

I don’t think Geno is the crutch behind SMRPG’s legacy, but I do think he is arguably part of that legacy. A lot of artists from SMRPG went on to work for AlphaDream which made the M&L games, that combined with the fact that members of AlphaDream wanted to, at least at one point, find ways to reintroduce and put Geno and Mallow in future M&L games, as well as Geno’s cameo in the first SSS. Given he’s a topic of conversation, especially in Smash, I tend to think there must be SOMETHING about him that keeps him still here.

I agree with you that there is a disconnect, and I am actually well aware of Mario Hoops, Sports Mix and Fortune Street. However, Hoops and Sports Mix has yet to feature a named Final Fantasy character. All of the SE characters in those games are mostly mascot characters (Moogles, Cactuars) and only Black Mage and White Mage appear as the humans, but are not recognizable protagonists such as Cloud or Leon or Terra. Or even ViVi who is essentially Black Mage. Not even the series mascot (arguably Cloud) was in either of those games. T looks like it was taken only from the 1st FF game, which would be odd as far as crossovers go. And maybe less so if it was just one of those games, but that’s how BOTH those games played out.

Fortune Street is a different case, but feels like a celebration of two of Japan’s biggest franchises. Mario and Dragon Quest. Another point in the Erdrick hat, at that.

That said I don’t really think that’s an indication of Square and Nintendo working together to make a game in the same vein as SMRPG. Or even something that is like effectively something they could reintroduce Geno in. Those are effectively sports spin offs or family games.

How were Isabelle, Incineroar and Ken Japan picks? Isabelle is definitely a worldwide pick, and as far as I know Incineroar is a nowhere pick. Was Ken a huge want of Japan’s? Because Sakurai never really mentioned it being a factor in his inclusion, and I always figured it was because of the obvious connection between the concept of an Echo and him.

With the exception of Isabelle, who ill concede cuz of worldwide.

How were Incineroar and Ken western picks? I was only arguing the point that most of the newcomers picks were for the West, when I don’t think that’s necessarily the case.

Why do Geno and Mallow need this special treatment of representation as playable? Mario RPGs moved without them just fine, and I would argue that the most important element of the Mario RPG series (Mario) is playable since day one.


Agree to disagree, I think the Mario cast represent Mario RPGs already well enough, especially since a lot of the stuff for Peach and Bowser's development came from SMRPG. I personally don't mind characters not appearing in more than one game, as I feel that most of the RPG's cast stories are tied at the end of their games.

The Mario cast arguable represent Mario the franchise, as the main characters and not Mario RPG the single game. Did any of the Peach and Bowser development show itself in smash?

Okay, yes, but Mario has other games. He’s the star of the franchise. Geno and Mallow don’t NEED special treatment to be playable, but neither does, Piranha Plant or Bowser Jr. or Ken, but it happens cuz it would be cool.
I’m only saying Geno would be a really cool, really unique character. And I disagree the Mario cast represent Mario the franchise, but SMRPG with characters that have never been used or seen again, is kind of a different story. It would be a cool, unique addition.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I think the Mario cast represent Mario RPGs already well enough, especially since a lot of the stuff for Peach and Bowser's development came from SMRPG. I personally don't mind characters not appearing in more than one game, as I feel that most of the RPG's cast stories are tied at the end of their games.

perfectly valid, though I'd like to see more of the original characters continue to make appearances. For me, it's part of what draws me to certain mario games, and why I just haven't bothered with certain other ones like the new super mario bros series. But hey, to each their own.

 

[TheYungLink]

As for why people aren't requesting other one-offs from other Mario RPGs, like Vivian, it can be chalked up to how most fans of Paper Mario want Paper Mario himself to be a playable character, to represent that series' battle mechanics, partners (including Vivian!), his hammer, and the paper aesthetic.

When it comes to Super Mario RPG, Mario in Smash already covers the basics, since in that game his magic was just jumping and shooting fireballs, which Mario in Smash currently already does just fine. Heck, some people think Peach's up special and frying pan forward smash were inspired by Super Mario RPG, though I don't know how true that is. But people attached to that game want a specific character from that game to be playable, and even though Mallow has the stronger and more engaging character arc in the story (don't @ me), fans latched onto wanting Geno because he's honestly stronger and more useful than Mallow in battle, and can do cool things other Mario characters can't like shoot finger bullets and giant lasers.

I mean, Sakurai seems to see it their way, since he got the Mii costume and Mallow didn't. And knowing that the creator of Smash wants the character in the game is a huge advantage all by itself. If it were up to me, I'd get both Geno AND Mallow playable, but that would require a miracle at this point, and I'd not want TWO of the remaining DLC fighter packs to be from the same 1996 Mario game, which is why I hope that Geno, if he's in, doesn't mean other Square Enix characters aren't in, so that we don't have to keep thinking Erdrick will "take" Geno or Mallow or Sora's spot. And why I'm hoping for a Season 2 Fighter's Pass but not holding my breath for it either.

 

[owjies]

Why do Geno and Mallow need this special treatment of representation as playable? Mario RPGs moved without them just fine, and I would argue that the most important element of the Mario RPG series (Mario) is playable since day one.

That's fair, but, to me, what makes SMRPG special is the partnership between Nintendo and Square. Yes, Mario is the protagonist of the game. Yes, there are SMRPG references baked into Mario and Peach's Smash movesets, such as Mario's final smash or Peach's frying pan. That said, when I think of SMRPG, I think of the unique characters and settings that Square imbued into Mario's world. Even though Geno is not the protagonist, he and Mallow are the representatives of that game. Although Geno would have the mushroom icon, he represents a crossover between Nintendo and Square in the era of Super Mario World and Chrono Trigger.

I'm not saying that the character needs to be put on a pedestal at all, but I think Geno / SMRPG does have a legacy of its own, even if it is a modest one.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I know this is late and Polar came out and said that the Atlus side is likely, but I'd like to say this about how unlikely it is that this leak is taken from our side of the internet.

All of the info we've known has only been known on this side of the internet. For someone to put all of this together they would have to:

• Be fluent in Japanese and English (or at least know enough English to work around the English side of the internet)
• Know about the prominent leakers for Smash Speculation and look into their other claims scattered around Reddit, Smashboards, and GameFAQs OR be in one of the right English communities to learn this information
• Make a couple of correct assumptions about insider information (remember, Verge, Hitagi, etc. have made claims about many different games) and Atlus inside information (P5A being delayed, P5R being the remake instead of P5U, etc.)
• Put it all together into one cohesive "leak" and post in on 2chan

Granted, people have put in more effort for fake leaks in the past (See: The Grinch and Jeuxvideo hoaxes), but the probability of this occurring is very low.

To be honest?

I don't know. I honestly don't.

Not necessarily? Negotiations for Sora are held between Nintendo and Square Enix, so he might not even technically be a Square Enix rep, even though his game is developed by them. He'd be a Disney rep since that's who owns the Kingdom Hearts IP.

I could see Nintendo going for it, but I definitely don't expect it.

Or, they could be an English person who is at least somewhat fluent in Japanese. It's really not that unlikely. There are tons of people who are bilingual, and especially with Japanese among... weeaboos, for lack of a better term. It's a lot less effort than you're saying for someone with a basic knowledge of Japanese. Even if they weren't totally fluent, if they knew enough about grammar (or a person to help them translate) it'd be pretty easy to write it.

 

[REZERO]

Or, they could be an English person who is at least somewhat fluent in Japanese. It's really not that unlikely. There are tons of people who are bilingual, and especially with Japanese among... weeaboos, for lack of a better term. It's a lot less effort than you're saying for someone with a basic knowledge of Japanese. Even if they weren't totally fluent, if they knew enough about grammar (or a person to help them translate) it'd be pretty easy to write it.

In combination with all the other actions Pokefreak listed it is extremely unlikely to put all that information together cohesively. Fact is that none of this is official and yet these leakers have people convinced. Instead of looking at actual evidence people are just talking about their sources from the industry taking precedence over researching patents, voice actors, what consoles the characters were on, hints from sakurai, and licensing.

 

[PolarPanda]

Or, they could be an English person who is at least somewhat fluent in Japanese. It's really not that unlikely. There are tons of people who are bilingual, and especially with Japanese among... weeaboos, for lack of a better term. It's a lot less effort than you're saying for someone with a basic knowledge of Japanese. Even if they weren't totally fluent, if they knew enough about grammar (or a person to help them translate) it'd be pretty easy to write it.

While you noted a possibility, I've already gotten word from an Atlus connection who confirmed the Atlus stuff, which is what he was referring to.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

While you noted a possibility, I've already gotten word from an Atlus connection who confirmed the Atlus stuff, which is what he was referring to.

Didn't you say the only Atlus stuff confirmed from your source was P5R? That hardly means anything if you ask me. If your source confirmed the stage stuff and whatever that Jack Frost thing was, then it'd mean something.

 

[Nekoo]

Didn't you say the only Atlus stuff confirmed from your source was P5R? That hardly means anything if you ask me. If your source confirmed the stage stuff and whatever that Jack Frost thing was, then it'd mean something.

What is so hard to understand?
-Leak is a Package of A/B/C/D/E
- A/B end up being verified within Atlus sources
-C end up being true with Arc Sys
- So D/E have a high chance to happens which is Smash.

 

[perfectchaos83]

and people thought P5U stood for P5 Ultimate or Ultra

P5U would be nothing else other than the arena game, just so we're clear. In Japan, Persona 4 Arena was always P4U

 

[Icewolff92]

What is so hard to understand?
-Leak is a Package of A/B/C/D/E
- A/B end up being verified within Atlus sources
-C end up being true with Arc Sys
- So D/E have a high chance to happens which is Smash.

And people said that Grinch leak had to be real because it came from someone that worked at a marketingdepartment that has videogamecompany connections

Y'all said it countless times before that something leakers is known to do is to put in false information as well so they don't get caught... And so far NOTHING in this leak that is "confirmed" is connected to Smash.

Sorry... but Pokefreaks skeptism towards it still is justified

 

[Nekoo]

And people said that Grinch leak had to be real because it came from someone that worked at a marketingdepartment that has videogamecompany connections

Y'all said it countless times before that something leakers is known to do is to put in false information as well so they don't get caught... And so far NOTHING in this leak that is "confirmed" is connected to Smash.

Sorry... but Pokefreaks skeptism towards it still is justified

Ah yes because the Grinch Leak totally had leaker behind it right?


Anyone?




Wait.