[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Calane]

I kinda know what they’re ’s saying, they are basically saying that Dragon Quest is too safe of a choice for Square, and we’re suppose to have “characters that you wouldn’t expect to make it into Smash.”

As much as I would like to see someone from DQ make it. Dragon Quest does fit the expected bill, when you look at it, it is the safe choice in terms of a Square pick. It’s not an out there choice at all, especially when you look at the other characters from the list especially the wild card picks like Sephiroth, Sora, or even Chrono, those would be wow like choices.

With Dragon Quest, the reaction would basically be, “yeah we all kinda knew that this would come.” There wouldn’t be no surprise factor at all compared to the other names.

I suppose you could see it that way, but are you sure DQ would be seen as "safe" if there were no rumors about it? In my experience, DQ was hardly ever talked about when considering possible Smash characters, and whenever people did, it was mostly just Slime that came up.

I think a sudden, un-rumored Erdrick DLC announcement would have come completely out of left field for a lot of people, honestly.

Well, SMT was one of the three classic pillars of the JRPG genre right? The other two were FF and DQ. Now, if I were Nintendo and planning to put in a classic DQ character like Erdrick as my Square rep, putting in a classic SMT rep would accomplish something amazing. It would really showcase the crossover power of Smash Bros, and how you can representatives from these three classic JRPG series. It also certainly helps that SMT has had a good Nintendo history and relationship. Instead, we are getting Joker, the most current Persona protagonist. And while Persona did indeed come out of the SMT series, there is no arguing that it has outgrown it and left it behind. Literally. They dropped SMT title for P5. And while there is a history with Nintendo in the form of PQ and PQ2, that pales to the legacy the home SMT series had to Nintendo. To not maximize the representation of that legacy when having both classic FF and DQ reps planned seems like a mistake. So my conclusion is that DQ is not a factor in this equation. I know others will feel differently as many still consider Persona just as much apart of the SMT series as any of the home games, but when I see a spin off start making it's own spin off's, a ton of which I may had, there is a degree of separation in my eyes.

I see what you're saying, but it seems like you're assuming DQ can't get in without SMT also getting in. I have a hard time believing that this would be the case. DQ and SMT are not joined at the hip, and I don't think ones absence would cause Nintendo to outright disregard the other. I would think each series that gets included in Smash does so by their own merits, so DQ shouldn't require SMT's presence to be included, and vice versa.

But that's just my opinion, I guess.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Isn't Yoaki Watch even arguably bigger then Pokemon (or at least was at some point)

I know it was pretty big in Japan at one point, but bigger than the highest grossing media franchise ever? I dunno about that one, chief.

 

[Icewolff92]

I know it was pretty big in Japan at one point, but bigger than the highest grossing media franchise ever? I dunno about that one, chief.

Yeah, I know. I missed to point out Japan like I pointed out in my edit earlier. Sleeping 2 hours in 48 hours take the tool on you... Facepalm xD

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Fatmanonice Am I way off base with assuming Nintendo wouldn't want to work with the DQ composer? Cause everyone here kinda sweeps that aside like it's a non-issue, I wanna know if I'm missing somthing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The point I'm making with Yokai Watch is that if gigantic popularity in Japan and Nintendo exclusivity isn't enough to even get spirits in Ultimate, why would they roll out the red carpet for DQ and give it better treatment in Ultimate than any other third party by a wide margin? I also want to note that Yokai Watch is still making games and didn't just "disappear." The series is 5 1/2 years old and was once big enough to warrant attractions at Universal Studios Japan and multiple movies. That's definitely notable.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't Yoaki Watch even arguably bigger then Pokemon (or at least was at some point)

And Goku is the most likely DLC character

The point I'm making with Yokai Watch is that if gigantic popularity in Japan and Nintendo exclusivity isn't enough to even get spirits in Ultimate, why would they roll out the red carpet for DQ and give it better treatment in Ultimate than any other third party by a wide margin? I also want to note that Yokai Watch is still making games and didn't just "disappear." The series is 5 1/2 years old and was once big enough to warrant attractions at Universal Studios Japan and multiple movies. That's definitely notable.

If you're comparing DQ to YW, you're definitely underselling Dragon "has a day dedicated to it" Quest.

 

[Deleted member]

The point I'm making with Yokai Watch is that if gigantic popularity in Japan and Nintendo exclusivity isn't enough to even get spirits in Ultimate, why would they roll out the red carpet for DQ and give it better treatment in Ultimate than any other third party by a wide margin? I also want to note that Yokai Watch is still making games and didn't just "disappear." The series is 5 1/2 years old and was once big enough to warrant attractions at Universal Studios Japan and multiple movies. That's definitely notable.

The difference is that Dragon Quest has had staying power for DECADES, Yo Kai Watch didnt have any staying power within the mainstream.

 

[Kotor]

Yeah I wouldn't be excited about Erdrick getting in. It feels one-sided to me. And with the whole "Square wants to promote Dragon Quest in the West again" being thrown around, I feel he might receive backlash similar to how the Corrins got backlash by the Smash fandom. Sure, it's iconic as being the grandfather of JRPGS, and very popular in Japan, but to the rest of the world, it's kinda just there.

 

[childishgamgeno]

If you're comparing DQ to YW, you're definitely underselling Dragon "has a day dedicated to it" Quest.

Only in Japan tho, right? Doesn’t that go back to the whole “Sakurai only wants to use those with worldwide appeal” argument?

I wonder if we’d be thinking DQ so much if Pandy didn’t put out that tweet lol


Yo Kai totally has staying power tho...?

 

[Deleted member]

Only in Japan tho, right? Doesn’t that go back to the whole “Sakurai only wants to use those with worldwide appeal” argument?

I wonder if we’d be thinking DQ so much if Pandy didn’t put out that tweet lol


Yo Kai totally has staying power tho...?

Even if a single leaker hadnt said anything about DQ I would still be rooting for it. It's one of my favorite series. I think that's just a me thing though.

 

[Deleted member]

Only in Japan tho, right? Doesn’t that go back to the whole “Sakurai only wants to use those with worldwide appeal” argument?

I wonder if we’d be thinking DQ so much if Pandy didn’t put out that tweet lol


Yo Kai totally has staying power tho...?

Sakurai is not picking the DLC though.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Sakurai is not picking the DLC though.

Right but he clearly does have some sway. He’s picking out of a selection.

 

[EarlTamm]

Right but he clearly does have some sway. He’s picking out of a selection.

It is part of the reaosn I believe Joker was selected, as Sakurai liked game to the point of baseing Ultimates UI after it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sakurai is not picking the DLC though.

Why. Do. People. Still. Believe. This.

It's almost like Reggie's words mean nothing:

“It’s emblematic of the approach that Mr. Sakurai and the team are taking with the DLC. He wants characters that are unique, different, to bring them into the Smash Bros. environment. So it’s going to be tremendously exciting.”

“Mr. Sakurai, he’s not only a student of Nintendo franchises, and obviously he’s had his hand in a few, but he’s a student of video games from a total perspective. And so he’s been the driver in really thinking about what type of character coming into Super Smash Bros. Ultimate would bring just a whole different level of fun and enjoyment for the player. That’s been the approach. That’s the thinking.”
“I hope the fans are excited by the announcement of Joker. I hope they’re looking forward to the future announcements. I hope it gives them confidence to just go buy the Fighter Pass. That way they can get the latest fighter as soon as it’s available and continue building out their roster for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.”​

HE WANTS.

HIS APPROACH.

Sakurai still has final say.

It his game to design.

Nintendo didn't force anything on him or take away his right to pick who he wanted for the game.

 

[-Coco-]

It is part of the reaosn I believe Joker was selected, as Sakurai liked game to the point of baseing Ultimates UI after it.

Yes and Sakurai has shown to like DQ on more than 1 occasion. If anything Sakurai bias is a point in DQ's favor.

 

[Deleted member]

Right but he clearly does have some sway. He’s picking out of a selection.

There was no "selection" though.

Why. Do. People. Still. Believe. This.

It's almost like Reggie's words mean nothing:



HE WANTS.

HIS APPROACH.

Sakurai still has final say.

It his game to design.

Nintendo didn't force anything on him or take away his right to pick who he wanted for the game.

Then it's Sakurai's words against Reggie's because Sakurai literally said Nintendo chose the DLC roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes and Sakurai has shown to like DQ on more than 1 occasion. If anything Sakurai bias is a point in DQ's favor.

Do you have a source on that? I wouldnt doubt it because of its popularity but I dont think I've ever seen anything where he talked about it.

 

[EarlTamm]

Yes and Sakurai has shown to like DQ on more than 1 occasion. If anything Sakurai bias is a point in DQ's favor.

But we also know the same for Geno. So what bias counteract's the other if it is true, and is there anything particularly compelling about Sakurai's appreciation of the series?

 

[-Coco-]

Do you have a source on that? I wouldnt doubt it because of its popularity but I dont think I've ever seen anything where he talked about it.

Here's a short compilation of Sakurai quotes about the series from various gematsu articles including a picture of him with Yuji Horii.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Also, all the DLC from last Smash (including Corrin) we’re promoting already popular and successful franchises or characters. Corrin wasn’t and advertisement pick to push lackluster FE sales. It was a strategic pick to promote an upcoming game in an already popular series that the game itself helped revive. Lucas was already a popular pick from the get go as a veteran.

Why would Nintendo want to invest in taking a chance by negotiating with up to 4 rights holders to try to promote a character, and by extension a franchise, in the HOPES that it reintroduces or introduces fans to DQ? Of course the logical answer is, ITS SMASH OF COURSE IT WILL, but business wise there’s no real guarantee. So why take that chance when there may potentially be more popular, worldwide and widespread picks?

There was no "selection" though.

Then it's Sakurai's words against Reggie's because Sakurai literally said Nintendo chose the DLC roster.

How are you gonna say it’s Reggie’s words against Sakurai’s and then say there was no “selection” in the same sentence when Sakurai’s tweet literally says Nintendo made the selection. Combining that with Reggie’s words, it’s only logical that there had to have been a selection.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a short compilation of Sakurai quotes about the series from various gematsu articles including a picture of him with Yuji Horii.

Thanks. I have to wonder if they met around when the roster was decided... that they could have discussed Smash? Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions though, I dont know when the photo is dated.

 

[-Coco-]

Thanks. I have to wonder if they met around when the roster was decided... that they could have discussed Smash? Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions though, I dont know when the photo is dated.

It's dated around 2016. It was in the October dreams issue.

 

[Deleted member]

It's dated around 2016. It was in the October dreams issue.

So maybe I am onto something. Or it could just be coincidence, lol

 

[Deleted member]

How are you gonna say it’s Reggie’s words against Sakurai’s and then say there was no “selection” in the same sentence when Sakurai’s tweet literally says Nintendo made the selection. Combining that with Reggie’s words, it’s only logical that there had to have been a selection.

There was no "selection" for Sakurai to have to choose from. Nintendo gave him the characters, he gave the okay, and that's the story.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

There was no "selection" for Sakurai to have to choose from. Nintendo gave him the characters, he gave the okay, and that's the story.

That's veering into speculatory territory. None of us KNOWS what happened

 

[childishgamgeno]

There was no "selection" for Sakurai to have to choose from. Nintendo gave him the characters, he gave the okay, and that's the story.

That’s....not true lmao

Sakurai said himself they give him the selection and he determines if a fighter is viable based on their selection. Given Reggie’s words there is logically no way that conversation went “here’s the only 5 characters you’re doing” and Sakurai went “okay I’ll make it work”

More than likely Nintendo gave them 10-15 and Sakurai went “I can do that one, I can’t do that one”

 

[Fatmanonice]

Like I said in a private Discord earlier, it's just better for everyone to assume the leak is real so that expectations for the SE character are kept as low as possible. Silent sword swinging protagonist from an overwhelmingly Japanese preferred series to sell ports hits that like an egg shot out of a T-shirt cannon at a brick wall.

 

[Deleted member]

That's veering into speculatory territory. None of us KNOWS what happened

That’s....not true lmao

Sakurai said himself they give him the selection and he determines if a fighter is viable based on their selection. Given Reggie’s words there is logically no way that conversation went “here’s the only 5 characters you’re doing” and Sakurai went “okay I’ll make it work”

More than likely Nintendo gave them 10-15 and Sakurai went “I can do that one, I can’t do that one”

The whole idea that Sakurai was given a list to choose from was pulled from thin air. His tweet only makes mention that Nintendo chose the DLC fighters and he decided if they could work with their selection which he did. He wasn't choosing anything, at most, he'd say "we can't make this one work" and Nintendo would give him someone else.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Like I said in a private Discord earlier, it's just better for everyone to assume the leak is real so that expectations for the SE character are kept as low as possible. Silent sword swinging protagonist from an overwhelmingly Japanese preferred series to sell ports hits that like an egg shot out of a T-shirt cannon at a brick wall.

But.... I don't want his music in Smash thoooooooooough. I'd rather be a LITTLE optimistic.

 

[Deleted member]

Like I said in a private Discord earlier, it's just better for everyone to assume the leak is real so that expectations for the SE character are kept as low as possible. Silent sword swinging protagonist from an overwhelmingly Japanese preferred series to sell ports hits that like an egg shot out of a T-shirt cannon at a brick wall.

Suit yourself. I would love to have one of my favorite series of all time in Smash.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Like I said in a private Discord earlier, it's just better for everyone to assume the leak is real so that expectations for the SE character are kept as low as possible. Silent sword swinging protagonist from an overwhelmingly Japanese preferred series to sell ports hits that like an egg shot out of a T-shirt cannon at a brick wall.

The 2chan leak? I mean I guess. I could see it happening lol
I just hope if it is DQ, that it’s like...idk interesting somehow.

The whole idea that Sakurai was given a list to choose from was pulled from thin air. His tweet only makes mention that Nintendo chose the DLC fighters and he decided if they could work with their selection which he did. He wasn't choosing anything, at most, he'd say "we can't make this one work" and Nintendo would give him someone else.

And thus...a selection...
You literally just said. Selection. And if Sakurai can say to Nintendo “we can’t do this one” he clearly has some influence.

 

[RileyXY1]

But.... I don't want his music in Smash thoooooooooough. I'd rather be a LITTLE optimistic.

It would be very difficult to get the license to use DQ's music.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

The 2chan leak? I mean I guess. I could see it happening lol
I just hope if it is DQ, that it’s like...idk interesting somehow.



And thus...a selection...
You literally just said. Selection. And if Sakurai can say to Nintendo “we can’t do this one” he clearly has some influence.

The part of the 2chan link that makes me big doubt was the part about Jack Frost and Slime "appearing and preforming special abilities"...... like what? Is this an asinine way to say assists or what?

 

[Deleted member]

The part of the 2chan link that makes me big doubt was the part about Jack Frost and Slime "appearing and preforming special abilities"...... like what? Is this an asinine way to say assists or what?

Translations yo. It just means one of their moves summons them.

 

[Deleted member]

The 2chan leak? I mean I guess. I could see it happening lol
I just hope if it is DQ, that it’s like...idk interesting somehow.



And thus...a selection...
You literally just said. Selection. And if Sakurai can say to Nintendo “we can’t do this one” he clearly has some influence.

You do realize we're using the same word for two different meanings, right?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Here's a short compilation of Sakurai quotes about the series from various gematsu articles including a picture of him with Yuji Horii.

Bless you.

It would be very difficult to get the license to use DQ's music.

I haven't had to deal with arguments this circular since the days of Box Theory.

Again, Nintendo has dealt with Sugimiya before in producing Dragon Quest IX (if I recall correctly) and they can use midi files to drastically lower costs if not skip Sugimiya entirely.

Like I said in a private Discord earlier, it's just better for everyone to assume the leak is real so that expectations for the SE character are kept as low as possible. Silent sword swinging protagonist from an overwhelmingly Japanese preferred series to sell ports hits that like an egg shot out of a T-shirt cannon at a brick wall.

But.... I don't want his music in Smash thoooooooooough. I'd rather be a LITTLE optimistic.

Again, just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean others won't. I wouldn't go around despairing about it either as Dragon Quest has valid merits towards its inclusion in Smash Bros., regardless of whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

The part of the 2chan link that makes me big doubt was the part about Jack Frost and Slime "appearing and preforming special abilities"...... like what? Is this an asinine way to say assists or what?

It's a rough translation. It could mean as a part of their movesets, or stage hazards, or assist trophies, but it's not as incomprehensible as you think.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Forgive me for knowing nothing about FF lore, but is Cloud a created character like Sephiroth is? I thought it was that Sephiroth was created by that company or whatever, but Cloud was just a dude. The reason I ask, one of the classic mode routes (i forget who) was "created characters," and Cloud was one of the fights. I personally have a theory that Classic mode routes are going to change as DLC fighters come in, and if that's true and Cloud wasn't created (it seemed weird to me) then Geno and Sephiroth both were actually created. (The former in a toy factory)

I might just be dumb though.

 

[Deleted member]

Forgive me for knowing nothing about FF lore, but is Cloud a created character like Sephiroth is? I thought it was that Sephiroth was created by that company or whatever, but Cloud was just a dude. The reason I ask, one of the classic mode routes (i forget who) was "created characters," and Cloud was one of the fights. I personally have a theory that Classic mode routes are going to change as DLC fighters come in, and if that's true and Cloud wasn't created (it seemed weird to me) then Geno and Sephiroth both were actually created. (The former in a toy factory)

I might just be dumb though.

It's... complicated.
The short answer is that psychological trauma will do things to you.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

New leak development: Xenother claims that the Square Enix character is Erdrick, Hitagi agrees with him.

Paging PolarPanda for his remarks.

 

[Deleted member]

New leak development: Xenother claims that the Square Enix character is Erdrick, Hitagi agrees with him.

Paging PolarPanda for his remarks.

Welp, that's that.