[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Deleted member]

The sole fact DQ still releases in the west when other series wouod have stopped localizations should be enough to tell Square cares about DQ and wants it to succeed in here. If Nintendo just came asking for a general Square character as it seems to be the case, there'd be no reason for them to not answer "take Erdrick/Slime/whoever else please".

Ok but why would they come to square without a specific character in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok but why would they come to square without a specific character in mind.

I dunno, but if the "only two characters ever went to the negotiation table" is to be believed, that's what happened. It could be simply because Nintendo would rather let Square decide on their own rather than try to convince SE to let them use a specific character. Basically "whoever Square would answer with is the easiest character to license"

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, but if the "only two characters ever went to the negotiation table" is to be believed, that's what happened. It could be simply because Nintendo would rather let Square decide on their own rather than try to convince SE to let them use a specific character. Basically "whoever Square would answer with is the easiest character to license"

If SE was deciding who they wanted, DQ is their second highest selling franchise behind FF, so taking that into consideration that's not too hard to see.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, but if the "only two characters ever went to the negotiation table" is to be believed, that's what happened. It could be simply because Nintendo would rather let Square decide on their own rather than try to convince SE to let them use a specific character. Basically "whoever Square would answer with is the easiest character to license"

Wouldn’t it be more likely in that case for Nintendo to come to square asking for a few different characters and then negotiating from there? Just coming in and saying “yo just give us like anybody” doesn’t really make much sense.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I dunno, but if the "only two characters ever went to the negotiation table" is to be believed, that's what happened. It could be simply because Nintendo would rather let Square decide on their own rather than try to convince SE to let them use a specific character. Basically "whoever Square would answer with is the easiest character to license"

The "only two characters" thing is fake. Regardless, I wouldn't put it past Square Enix to suggest only a couple of characters, with most of them being Dragon Quest. Sora and Geno stick out as unlikely for a multitude of reasons, and between Dragon Quest and another FF character Sakurai is going to choose Dragon Quest. Even next to Geno I believe Sakurai would choose DQ.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Again, it's hard leaning into check boxes and symbolism. Simon/Castlevania has international appeal. Joker/SMT/Persona has international appeal. Most people didn't have to Google search them when they were announced. Even long time video game veterans have had to look up Erdrick.

Even if you count Lucas and Roy, that leaves only three characters out of 70+ in the entirety of Smash history that had almost no appeal to international audiences when they premiered and they were all second party. We're talking about third party. Every other third party character has had notable international appeal. Hell, Bayo got in almost solely because of it and that series doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten selling franchises. Clearly legacy didn't matter there. Why would Dragon Quest be the one exception?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Again, it's hard leaning into check boxes and symbolism. Simon/Castlevania has international appeal. Joker/SMT/Persona has international appeal. Most people didn't have to Google search them when they were announced. Even long time video game veterans have had to look up Erdrick.

Even if you count Lucas and Roy, that leaves only three characters out of 70+ in the entirety of Smash history that had almost no appeal to international audiences when they premiered and they were all second party. We're talking about third party. Every other third party character has had notable international appeal. Hell, Bayo got in almost solely because of it and that series doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten selling franchises. Clearly legacy didn't matter there. Why would Dragon Quest be the one exception?

Hold up chief. Bayonetta is popular worldwide? Since when? Bayonetta was more likely due to Nintendo taking up funding for the franchise and the close relationship between the IP and Nintendo from that making negotiations easier. If you're suggesting that Bayonetta had more overall popularity than Dragon Quest at the time of her inclusion then you're mistaken.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hold up chief. Bayonetta is popular worldwide? Since when? Bayonetta was more likely due to Nintendo taking up funding for the franchise and the close relationship between the IP and Nintendo from that making negotiations easier. If you're suggesting that Bayonetta had more overall popularity than Dragon Quest at the time of her inclusion then you're mistaken.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j1JERhUoQoU

21 minutes in. Most requested character in Europe and top 5 for North America. Literally from Sakurai himself.

 

[Deleted member]

Hold up chief. Bayonetta is popular worldwide? Since when? Bayonetta was more likely due to Nintendo taking up funding for the franchise and the close relationship between the IP and Nintendo from that making negotiations easier. If you're suggesting that Bayonetta had more overall popularity than Dragon Quest at the time of her inclusion then you're mistaken.

Pretty sure he’s suggesting that according to Sakurai bayonetta was chosen because of her western popularity and not so much her eastern.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, it's hard leaning into check boxes and symbolism. Simon/Castlevania has international appeal. Joker/SMT/Persona has international appeal. Most people didn't have to Google search them when they were announced. Even long time video game veterans have had to look up Erdrick.

Even if you count Lucas and Roy, that leaves only three characters out of 70+ in the entirety of Smash history that had almost no appeal to international audiences when they premiered and they were all second party. We're talking about third party. Every other third party character has had notable international appeal. Hell, Bayo got in almost solely because of it and that series doesn't even crack SEGA's top ten selling franchises. Clearly legacy didn't matter there. Why would Dragon Quest be the one exception?

Smash was all about checking off boxes up until Brawl, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you sell a game as a Nintendo crossover, you have to get your big Nintendo characters in. And if you sell a game as a big videogame crossover and not have one of the biggest RPGs in the history of gaming, that's just kinda silly.

Just because it's not popular in the west, doesn't mean it's not one of the most important games in history, or an incredibly popular game still. If one guy buys 9 of your pies and another buys only 1 instead of both buying 5, does it really make a difference?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j1JERhUoQoU

21 minutes in. Most requested character in Europe and top 5 for North America. Literally from Sakurai himself.

Did you forget the point of *among realizable characters? Or the fact that data for Bayonetta existed around a week after the Ballot began?

While they cited popularity as the reason, Bayonetta wasn't chosen primarily for that reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Did you forget the point of *among realizable characters? Or the fact that data for Bayonetta existed around a week after the Ballot began?

While they cited popularity as the reason, Bayonetta wasn't chosen primarily for that reason.

In that case, Bayonetta was chosen because of her connections with Nintendo, and almost certainly not Japanese popularity considering there wasn’t much. So for her at least Japanese popualirty likely didn’t matter.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

In that case, Bayonetta was chosen because of her connections with Nintendo, and almost certainly not Japanese popularity considering there wasn’t much. So for her at least Japanese popualirty likely didn’t matter.

Similarly, Dragon Quest has strong connections with Nintendo, so it could be speculated that those connections could make up for a lack of Western popularity.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Though quite honestly, if we had to someone from Dragon Quest then why not Eight? He is the most recognizable to western gamers to the point they added his outfit as a bonus for the western version of DQ11.

 

[Deleted member]

Similarly, Dragon Quest has strong connections with Nintendo, so it could be speculated that those connections could make up for a lack of Western popularity.

You have to consider though that Nintendo themselves published and funded bayonetta the second, so they have a greater monetary investment in that game. Dragon quest on the other hand, while still being good for promotion is not as directly linked to Nintendo to the degree Bayo is, so Nintendo might have less investment in picking a DQ character.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I'm really not trying to stir anymore ****; but I've yet to see a valid counter point of why Nintendo would risk the controversy of working with and paying DQ's composer. And this is a big honking deal; in my eyes, and somthing majorly glossed over as well.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Smash was all about checking off boxes up until Brawl, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you sell a game as a Nintendo crossover, you have to get your big Nintendo characters in. And if you sell a game as a big videogame crossover and not have one of the biggest RPGs in the history of gaming, that's just kinda silly.

Just because it's not popular in the west, doesn't mean it's not one of the most important games in history, or an incredibly popular game still. If one guy buys 9 of your pies and another buys only 1 instead of both buying 5, does it really make a difference?

Melee was about check boxes? More like the total opposite.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

Note how all but one unique newcomer (Mr. Game and Watch) and even half of the clone characters are decently represented here, made less significant when you note that Roy didn't exist yet and Doc and Pichu are technically variations of already existing characters. Once again, it places even more evidence that people are hard leaning into symbolism to justify Dragon Quest. A vast majority of characters in Smash were actively wanted. You could say "oh, but people didn't really want Ryu that much either" but Ryu is Mr. Fighting Games and Fighting Crossovers, immediately recognized worldwide, and is owned by a single IP holder, not a minimum of 3 like Dragon Quest or a maximum of 5 when it comes to getting Erdrick specifically in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Though quite honestly, if we had to someone from Dragon Quest then why not Eight? He is the most recognizable to western gamers to the point they added his outfit as a bonus for the western version of DQ11.

As an alt perhaps? DQ3 is the most popular in Japan but DQ8 is the most popular in the West, so doing Olimar/Alph type alts wouldnt be out of the question for them I think.

 

[Deleted member]

Though quite honestly, if we had to someone from Dragon Quest then why not Eight? He is the most recognizable to western gamers to the point they added his outfit as a bonus for the western version of DQ11.

For what it’s worth, I think Eight’s design specifically is pretty well-known among western gamers. This is purely anecdotal, but when I looked up who Erdrich was the design seemed very vaguely familiar from dq, but when I looked up who Eight was and I saw his design I immediately thought “Oh it’s that guy”.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm really not trying to stir anymore ****; but I've yet to see a valid counter point of why Nintendo would risk the controversy of working with and paying DQ's composer. And this is a big honking deal; in my eyes, and somthing majorly glossed over as well.

It's largely a western issue, and Japan doesn't care about it as much. Square Enix themselves made a statement about it and that ended that.

Additionally, it's not like this is a widespread controversy, nor will it largely hurt Nintendo's family-friendly image.

Also, they could just, you know, use MIDI files and largely circumvent working with him.

 

[Deleted member]

It's largely a western issue, and Japan doesn't care about it as much. Square Enix themselves made a statement about it and that ended that.

Additionally, it's not like this is a widespread controversy, nor will it largely hurt Nintendo's family-friendly image.

Also, they could just, you know, use MIDI files and largely circumvent working with him.

Is he only stingy over the orchestral versions? That's interesting to note.

 

[Deleted member]

It's largely a western issue, and Japan doesn't care about it as much. Square Enix themselves made a statement about it and that ended that.

Additionally, it's not like this is a widespread controversy, nor will it largely hurt Nintendo's family-friendly image.

Also, they could just, you know, use MIDI files and largely circumvent working with him.

Speaking of MIDI files, I can easily see Erdrick having a full retro “theme” and them playing up how influential DQ was back in the day, so the midi music would make more sense. Essentially “It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!”

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

It's largely a western issue, and Japan doesn't care about it as much. Square Enix themselves made a statement about it and that ended that.

Additionally, it's not like this is a widespread controversy, nor will it largely hurt Nintendo's family-friendly image.

Also, they could just, you know, use MIDI files and largely circumvent working with him.

Just because Japan doesn't care about it; I don't think it would be right to write off what NA would think entirely. That's still a pretty big part of the base, which I'm sure they take into consideration as well (see Mr Game and Watch)

That may be true; but all it takes is one journalist to fan a spark into a wild fire these days.

Don't they still need to pay for the MIDI's? I admit to be in the dark regarding the Legal aspects of Smash.

 

[-Coco-]

You have to consider though that Nintendo themselves published and funded bayonetta the second, so they have a greater monetary investment in that game. Dragon quest on the other hand, while still being good for promotion is not as directly linked to Nintendo to the degree Bayo is, so Nintendo might have less investment in picking a DQ character.

Nintendo has been publishing all of the DQ games that came here on their systems. They're also publishing the DQ11 Switch Port and DQB2 iirc.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo has been publishing all of the DQ games that came here on their systems. They're also publishing the DQ11 Switch Port and DQB2 iirc.

Looking it up, seems you’re right. Still though, they’re only publishing the games in the West and aren’t funding the games, so they’d still have more monetary investment (and investment in general) in Bayo.

 

[-Coco-]

Looking it up, seems you’re right. Still though, they’re only publishing the games in the West and aren’t funding the games, so they’d still have more monetary investment (and investment in general) in Bayo.

I agree there's more with Bayo but Nintendo still has a stake with DQ11 succeeding. I don't think it's a coincidence that a NX port of 11 was one of the first things announced for the system long before it was known as the Switch.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Though quite honestly, if we had to someone from Dragon Quest then why not Eight? He is the most recognizable to western gamers to the point they added his outfit as a bonus for the western version of DQ11.

On this point, if you have to go back a minimum of 13 years to find a character that clicks with even the Western fans that are actually invested in the series, you might have a big obscurity problem. Also, no, this is not the same as Cloud because he's recognizable worldwide, has a giant list of cameos including playable ones, is overwhelmingly the most popular character from his franchise worldwide, and the definitive face of his franchise.

 

[EarlTamm]

I agree there's more with Bayo but Nintendo still has a stake with DQ11 succeeding. I don't think it's a coincidence that a NX port of 11 was one of the first things announced for the system long before it was known as the Switch.

Then would they pick someone from the new game?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm really not trying to stir anymore ****; but I've yet to see a valid counter point of why Nintendo would risk the controversy of working with and paying DQ's composer. And this is a big honking deal; in my eyes, and somthing majorly glossed over as well.

There are ways to circumvent working with Sugiyama and since it's just the music, I doubt Nintendo think it's a big risk anyways.

Melee was about check boxes? More like the total opposite.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult3.html

Note how all but one unique newcomer (Mr. Game and Watch) and even half of the clone characters are decently represented here, made less significant when you note that Roy didn't exist yet and Doc and Pichu are technically variations of already existing characters. Once again, it places even more evidence that people are hard leaning into symbolism to justify Dragon Quest. A vast majority of characters in Smash were actively wanted. You could say "oh, but people didn't really want Ryu that much either" but Ryu is Mr. Fighting Games and Fighting Crossovers, immediately recognized worldwide, and is owned by a single IP holder, not a minimum of 3 like Dragon Quest or a maximum of 5 when it comes to getting Erdrick specifically in Smash.

You really like underselling DQ, huh? I don't get why you act as if "checking off boxes" is something bad when you have to check off essentials, if you truly admit that's what DQ is, then it really should get in.

Also, a poll where the most voted character has only 169 votes is hardly hard proof of popularity lmao

It's largely a western issue, and Japan doesn't care about it as much. Square Enix themselves made a statement about it and that ended that.

Again, that's not true at all. Unlike what 4chan would want you to believe, Japan does have plenty of the so-called "SJWs"

 

[-Coco-]

Then would they pick someone from the new game?

I'm not gonna spoil anything but the new game is relevant to Erdrick and there's rumors of a DQ11 alt. Also you got DQ 1-3 download codes if you beat 11 in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, that's not true at all. Unlike what 4chan would want you to believe, Japan does have plenty of the so-called "SJWs"

Oh 4chan definitely talks about politics in japan. There’s always at least 2 threads in the catalog about it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That poll was the official one Nintendo ran back in the day. It was basically the equivalent of the Smash Ballot back in 2000. Like I pointed out, nearly all the popular picks made it into the game in some form and a lot even carried over to Brawl.

But literally no other third party has been added because of check boxes. No one. Everyone has international appeal. Snake was a request from Kojima but sure as Hell came back because of fan demand. I already explained Ryu. Dragon Quest would be the exception on a ton of fronts.

Honestly, based on everything, I think people are overselling Dragon Quest. If something like Yokai Watch is totally skipped over despite Level 5's pockets-in-pants-and-wiggling-eyebrows relationship with Nintendo and absolutely explosive modern popularity in Japan, why Dragon Quest? The only argument people have made is legacy and it's already been pointed out that this is just as hilariously one sided in Japan as it is Yokai. Okay to hard liquor for breakfast depressing sales wise in the West. Again, it goes back to check boxes and there are characters within Square Enix itself that would not only be easier to get but are actually wanted too.

 

[Deleted member]

That poll was the official one Nintendo ran back in the day. It was basically the equivalent of the Smash Ballot back in 2000. Like I pointed out, nearly all the popular picks made it into the game in some form and a lot even carried over to Melee.

But literally no other third party has been added because of check boxes. No one. Everyone has international appeal. Snake was a request from Kojima but sure as Hell came back because of fan demand. I already explained Ryu. Dragon Quest would be the exception on a ton of fronts.

Honestly, based on everything, I think people are overselling Dragon Quest. If something like Yokai Watch is totally skipped over despite Level 5's pockets-in-pants-and-wiggling-eyebrows relationship with Nintendo and absolutely explosive modern popularity in Japan, why Dragon Quest? The only argument people have made is legacy and it's already been pointed out that this is just as hilariously one sided in Japan as it is Yokai. Okay to hard liquor for breakfast depressing sales wise in the West. Again, it goes back to check boxes and there are characters within Square Enix itself that would not only be easier to get but are actually wanted too.

Are you implying that having hard liquor for breakfast isn’t normal?

 

[GoodGrief741]

You have to consider though that Nintendo themselves published and funded bayonetta the second, so they have a greater monetary investment in that game. Dragon quest on the other hand, while still being good for promotion is not as directly linked to Nintendo to the degree Bayo is, so Nintendo might have less investment in picking a DQ character.

Nintendo has a stake in DQ doing well in the West, seeing how they publish DQ in the West.

I'm really not trying to stir anymore ****; but I've yet to see a valid counter point of why Nintendo would risk the controversy of working with and paying DQ's composer. And this is a big honking deal; in my eyes, and somthing majorly glossed over as well.

Because they already do? And nobody cares now?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Though quite honestly, if we had to someone from Dragon Quest then why not Eight? He is the most recognizable to western gamers to the point they added his outfit as a bonus for the western version of DQ11.

Yeah. Eight is their best bet for Dragon Quest IMO.

Which is why I have trouble believing Erdrick even with his legacy to Japanese audiences.

You want international appeal to sell DLC. Even if you were trying to boost Dragon Quest. Why pick a hero that Western audiences are gonna literally ''Who?"

Erdrick is just going to look like Goku with a sword and shield to a lot of people.

This of course feels like a fake leak anyways.

It knows far too much and the one thing it got right wasn't exactly the most well kept secret in the world thanks to Hitagi.

 

[Icewolff92]

That poll was the official one Nintendo ran back in the day. It was basically the equivalent of the Smash Ballot back in 2000. Like I pointed out, nearly all the popular picks made it into the game in some form and a lot even carried over to Brawl.

But literally no other third party has been added because of check boxes. No one. Everyone has international appeal. Snake was a request from Kojima but sure as Hell came back because of fan demand. I already explained Ryu. Dragon Quest would be the exception on a ton of fronts.

Honestly, based on everything, I think people are overselling Dragon Quest. If something like Yokai Watch is totally skipped over despite Level 5's pockets-in-pants-and-wiggling-eyebrows relationship with Nintendo and absolutely explosive modern popularity in Japan, why Dragon Quest? The only argument people have made is legacy and it's already been pointed out that this is just as hilariously one sided in Japan as it is Yokai. Okay to hard liquor for breakfast depressing sales wise in the West. Again, it goes back to check boxes and there are characters within Square Enix itself that would not only be easier to get but are actually wanted too.

Isn't Yoaki Watch even arguably bigger then Pokemon (or at least was at some point)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That poll was the official one Nintendo ran back in the day. It was basically the equivalent of the Smash Ballot back in 2000. Like I pointed out, nearly all the popular picks made it into the game in some form and a lot even carried over to Brawl.

But literally no other third party has been added because of check boxes. No one. Everyone has international appeal. Snake was a request from Kojima but sure as Hell came back because of fan demand. I already explained Ryu. Dragon Quest would be the exception on a ton of fronts.

Honestly, based on everything, I think people are overselling Dragon Quest. If something like Yokai Watch is totally skipped over despite Level 5's pockets-in-pants-and-wiggling-eyebrows relationship with Nintendo and absolutely explosive modern popularity in Japan, why Dragon Quest? The only argument people have made is legacy and it's already been pointed out that this is just as hilariously one sided in Japan as it is Yokai. Okay to hard liquor for breakfast depressing sales wise in the West. Again, it goes back to check boxes and there are characters within Square Enix itself that would not only be easier to get but are actually wanted too.

Except Dragon Quest has been popular for 20+ years in Japan, whereas Yokai Watch was popular for 2 and then petered out. It's a false equivalency.

A Dragon Quest character has just as much of a chance as him or Sora, if not more of a chance, and the series shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Isn't Yoaki Watch even arguably bigger then Pokemon (or at least was at some point)

What the.... In what world?

 

[Deleted member]

A Dragon Quest character has just as much of a chance as Sora

Damn DQ rep deconfirmed.

 

[Icewolff92]

What the.... In what world?

Just something I've heard but never found a source for. That's why I'm asking

Edit. I'm speaking in Japan only.. Noticed that I missed pointing out Japan xD.. God I need to sleep.