[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

The factors that decided Joker are not necessarily the same for each character afterwards.

No one said they had to be. But nowadays the fact that Cloud got in over his FF competition, Joker getting in before even a port of Persona 5 to the Switch was annouced, has been something that plenty of people have cited for why it's not so much the definitive marker as fans used to think it was.

silly to think that there is something in particular that pushes a pick on Smash.

Exactly why I was pointing out the flaw in such. You didn't think I was speaking on those terms, did you?

Finally, while I like good ol Ace Attorney, If you're comparing Phoenix Wright with DQ I find it something quite silly.

?. I mean, I wasn't really, do I don't know what you're talking about. Sure, both have good relations with Nintendo, and Nintendo did help publish the crossover involving Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Sure, Sakurai is a fan of both and has just with both their creators in recent years with good timing for DLC. Sure, he's had columns about both and yes, both have upcoming games this year that would go good with a Smash release, but I wasn't comparing them previously if that's what you thought.

nor being the precursor for modern JRPGs,

I mean, it revolutionized visual novel games in the west, so there's that. Don't see your point.

originated on the NES and so has a lomger story with Nintendo.

And age supposedly matters because?

I don't see the point of a 1:1 comparison when that's not even what I was doing in the first place.

They're not even the same genre or company. Albeit Phoenix's has been far less stingy than Erdrick's with Smash.

 

[Flyboy]

I want Dragon Quest in Smash but I can't deny if I really do get BOTH my "impossible" picks (2B and Joker) I'd basically explode into tiny pieces.

 

[Deleted member]

I want Dragon Quest in Smash but I can't deny if I really do get BOTH my "impossible" picks (2B and Joker) I'd basically explode into tiny pieces.

I may not care much about 2B, but I wouldn’t mind her inclusion at all.

She has a lot of demand and support, so that is enough for me to accept her in the roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Bruh if it's erdrick you guys are gonna ***** and complain because he was drawn by Akira Toriyama

 

[Deleted member]

Bruh if it's erdrick you guys are gonna ***** and complain because he was drawn by Akira Toriyama

Not at all.

 

[EarlTamm]

Bruh if it's erdrick you guys are gonna ***** and complain because he was drawn by Akira Toriyama

I don't recall anyone complaining about Erdrick because of that. It's great joke material, that's for sure.

 

[Deleted member]

No one said they had to be. But nowadays the fact that Cloud got in over his FF competition, Joker getting in before even a port of Persona 5 to the Switch was annouced, has been something that plenty of people have cited for why it's not so much the definitive marker as fans used to think it was.

Exactly why I was pointing out the flaw in such. You didn't think I was speaking on those terms, did you?

?. I mean, I wasn't really, do I don't know what you're talking about. Sure, both have good relations with Nintendo, and Nintendo did help publish the crossover involving Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Sure, Sakurai is a fan of both and has just with both their creators in recent years with good timing for DLC. Sure, he's had columns about both and yes, both have upcoming games this year that would go good with a Smash release, but I wasn't comparing them previously if that's what you thought.

I mean, it revolutionized visual novel games in the west, so there's that. Don't see your point.

And age supposedly matters because?

I don't see the point of a 1:1 comparison when that's not even what I was doing in the first place.

They're not even the same genre or company. Albeit Phoenix's has been far less stingy than Erdrick's with Smash.

Sorry if I misunderstood you. Thought a few of your arguments were basically discarding stuff that could be argued in favor of DQ, especially since the situation in DQ, FF and SMT is quite different. Your argument now only considers competition within the same franchise and while the three franchises started on the NES, both FF and SMT have their most popular entries on the PS family, DQ most popular entries are on the NES.

Sakurai previously mentioned that having entries on Nintendo systems would be nice. Which is something that Itsuno, of DMC fame, backed a few days ago regarding Dante in Smash.

Age matters because more generations are exposed to the game. A franchise that started on the NES is going to have more exposure to the public than a franchise that started on the GBA.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I dont think AA revolutionized anything regarding VN, considering theres little to no VN that take influence from AA other than possibly Daganronpa which I might be wrong about. DQ is practically the reason why franchises like SMT and FF exist today. If you mean revitalized, I agree at some point considering they are quite populat.

 

[MajoraMan28]

That's another good point. Star Fox Grand Prix being some 4-D chess hoax across the industry dia show that Nintendo are well capable of baiting something just as commonly said and for as long.

Erdrick has apparently been known for so long, on the insider circle, and that's before that info got to us. Couple that with Verge's Minecraft claims that renowned insiders like Ryce have voiced legitimate doubts in, this case gets more interesting.

Regardless of what happens, I'm just glad that speculation can go back to being as fun and balanced as it should be.

Considering how every single Smash 4 DLC character wasn't called out with a considerable ammount of time before its announcement, I think that leakbaiting isn't new for BN. DLC is a different ballgame compared to basegame, and I find it hard to believe that people would have a planning table this early on. I'm glad Sephiroth is not the most talked about among insiders, but just one of the names that were decently talked about (initially Verge had the idea of narrowing down the list to 3 spots: DQ rep, Sephiroth and Crono; the rumor of actually being two characters that got to the final discussing table as brought up in the Geno thread months ago, those being Geno and Sephiroth), bc to me it gives more credence to the possibility of him showing up. Nintendo has surprised us with Directs and announcements time and time again with each moment they open up to the world with their new stuff. I think it's beyond the time for some to question the idea that most insiders saying it's X clinches the character in question. History has showed, in the case of Smash, to this be more of a bad omen for the character in question.
Again, let me be clear. If it's not Sephiroth, Erdrick would be my preffered S-E pick. I'm not saying this to **** on him or on people believing it will be him. It could very well be the case, and the insiders were correct. But remember that this is a HUGE exception. Stuff like this extremely rarely occurs with Nintendo and S-E.

 

[Icewolff92]

Bruh if it's erdrick you guys are gonna ***** and complain because he was drawn by Akira Toriyama

The only one that will complain about the Akira Toriyama part is Smash fanatics that want Goku in with comments like "We want Goku not this ****".

So you're saying that Nintendo's strong relationship with Square Enix in regards to Dragon Quest is an assumption? Are you seriously going to ignore the multiple published titles and thousands, if not millions in advertising Nintendo has spent solely on Dragon Quest and call it an assumption?

We can assume many things, but you can't assume facts. It is a fact that Nintendo has covered for Dragon Quest more so than any other third party series. It is a fact that Dragon Quest is dominantly associated with Nintendo consoles, similar to other RPG series represented in Smash such as Final Fantasy and Shin Megami Tensei. It is a fact that a precedent exists for Square Enix characters being previously unlicensed to any company before Nintendo. You cannot call these statements assumptions because they are facts.

Sure, my interpretation of these facts could be seen as assumptions, but isn't that what any interpretation of facts is? By saying that my argument based on assumptions you're essentially calling it an argument, which really does nothing for you.

I feel like you're taking my argument and generalizing it to blind fan worship, which it really isn't. I'm not here to shill the characters I want; I already got the characters I wanted in base, and I never expected Joker to be in the game so he's a bonus. I'm here to speculate, which involves discussing fact and making reasonable assumptions based off of those. If you want my philosophy about character speculation, here it is:

You are absolutely right. The relationship of Dragon Quest is there. But here is the assumption part of what I was talking about. A relationship between two companies does not = character in Smash Brothers. If that's the case, then why does Namco Bandai only have 1 character in Smash Bros franchise, when they are working so closely that they are co-developers of Smash (and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't their rumors of Nintendo even thinking about buying Namco?). If associated with Nintendo = character in Smash then why did they chose a poster boy for RPG games that are on PlayStation without any news of a Persona port for Switch instead of an SMT character which is the Atlus franchise that is more associated with Nintendo?

My reaction was the "big points" thing since you can use a relationship between companies for more than just Dragon Quest. That was my main issue with it. Especially when we don't even know if what leakers hearing is true (with leakers being a main reason why you think the relationship is a big hint towards it or am I mistaken?). I mean, PolarPanda dropped the bomb that supposedly Star Fox Racing was a bait leaked out by Nintendo. And if thats true, then what say stuff like Erdrick isn't leakbait as well?

 

[Deleted member]

Bruh if it's erdrick you guys are gonna ***** and complain because he was drawn by Akira Toriyama

what the hell are you on about, people would be thrilled to have such a famous artist's work in smash.

 

[Nazyrus]

The only one that will complain about the Akira Toriyama part is Smash fanatics that want Goku in with comments like "We want Goku not this ****".




You are absolutely right. The relationship of Dragon Quest is there. But here is the assumption part of what I was talking about. A relationship between two companies does not = character in Smash Brothers. If that's the case, then why does Namco Bandai only have 1 character in Smash Bros franchise, when they are working so closely that they are co-developers of Smash (and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't their rumors of Nintendo even thinking about buying Namco?). If associated with Nintendo = character in Smash then why did they chose a poster boy for RPG games that are on PlayStation without any news of a Persona port for Switch instead of an SMT character which is the Atlus franchise that is more associated with Nintendo?

My reaction was the "big points" thing since you can use a relationship between companies for more than just Dragon Quest. That was my main issue with it. Especially when we don't even know if what leakers hearing is true (with leakers being a main reason why you think the relationship is a big hint towards it or am I mistaken?). I mean, PolarPanda dropped the bomb that supposedly Star Fox Racing was a bait leaked out by Nintendo. And if thats true, then what say stuff like Erdrick isn't leakbait as well?

100%

 

[PsySmasher]

Bruh if it's erdrick you guys are gonna ***** and complain because he was drawn by Akira Toriyama

It's the only reason why I want Erdrick in any capacity.

 

[PolarPanda]

For reference, I still think Erdrick has very high odds, with Tansut backing him and the 5chan leak that got Granblue Fighting and Persona stuff right (the one that only leaked erdrick and joker) also including him. We were still considering him one of the most likely before Verge was ever sure of him. We just need to be careful from now on.

For reference, I still don't know who it is myself.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

And that's why we have an SMT rep instead of a Persona rep, oh wait.

If we hadn't already established that relationships with Nintendo don't really matter, you'd have more of a point. Of course, by that logic we'd have had Phoenix Wright in by now.

From the Press Release of Joker's reveal:

The Persona games are a spinoff of the popular Shin Megami Tensei franchise, which has a long and storied history in the world of video games – with many of the games appearing on Nintendo systems.

We've had this discussion before. Stop spreading misinformation.

You are absolutely right. The relationship of Dragon Quest is there. But here is the assumption part of what I was talking about. A relationship between two companies does not = character in Smash Brothers.

Congratulations. You got the point of my argument.

I never said it equaled a character in Smash. All I said is that it was evidence for Erdick being in Smash.

 

[MajoraMan28]

For reference, I still think Erdrick has very high odds, with Tansut backing him and the 5chan leak that got Granblue Fighting and Persona stuff right (the one that only leaked erdrick and joker) also including him. We were still considering him one of the most likely before Verge was ever sure of him. We just need to be careful from now on.

For reference, I still don't know who it is myself.

To me, the only solid thing that backs Erdrick is Tansut, and even then he isn't immune to mistakes. The 5chan leak has too much info on something that would hardly be leaked all at once this early.
Again, DLC is a different ballgame. Contracts, organization of legal issues take time and isn't open to anyone to see. Getting that much info is hard to believe.
I agree that we should tread with caution. But at the very least we can say that we have a lot more space to speculate.
I don't take anything for granted.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm personally of the mindset that Erdrick is still a strong possibility but is by no means a lock anymore.

Heck, I'm not entirely convinced Bravely Default is completely off the table.

 

[Lundcraft]

For reference, I still think Erdrick has very high odds, with Tansut backing him and the 5chan leak that got Granblue Fighting and Persona stuff right (the one that only leaked erdrick and joker) also including him. We were still considering him one of the most likely before Verge was ever sure of him. We just need to be careful from now on.

For reference, I still don't know who it is myself.

Is there anything news from Vergeben? Because he seems to be getting alot of hate and such on Gamefaqs because he got stuff wrong about the direct, so hopefully the guy is okay.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm personally of the mindset that Erdrick is still a strong possibility but is by no means a lock anymore.

Heck, I'm not entirely convinced Bravely Default is completely off the table.

In all honesty I think that is kinda weird that Verge list didnt had any leakbait from BD nor Tomb Rider considering the popularity they have, one with the Nintendo fanbase and the other in general.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Just to be clear, I think that while characters aren't leaked with a lot of time in advance, usually someone gets it right, when nobody is giving much attention to it. In other words, it's usually a name that has appeared before, and normally leakers pop up out of nowhere bc they made a good call when few did. What I mean is, I still think the rep is one of the list of 7 characters that Verge sent, and I think that dismissing that list entirely is a bit desperate. It's just that having a definitive answer as early as months ago is a tad too much to believe. And anyone can believe and speculate what they want.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Just to be clear, I think that while characters aren't leaked with a lot of time in advance, usually someone gets it right, when nobody is giving much attention to it. In other words, it's usually a name that has appeared before, and normally leakers pop up out of nowhere bc they made a good call when few did. What I mean is, I still think the rep is one of the list of 7 characters that Verge sent, and I think that dismissing that list entirely is a bit desperate. It's just that having a definitive answer as early as months ago is a tad too much to believe. And anyone can believe and speculate what they want.

Like I said last night. Things don't add up when SE made a list of characters to tell people to avoid the secret getting completely out. But then still tell everyone it's Erdrick anyway (Erdrick is the most common heard name). Why would they make the character they are added to smash the most common said name? Wouldn't that defy the whole purpose of making a random list of characters to tell people?

 

[Icewolff92]

I never said it equaled a character in Smash. All I said is that it was evidence for Erdick being in Smash.

Which I certainly disagree on since relationship with Nintendo can be used with far more than just Dragon Quest which I pointed out from the post you just quoted

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

If anything Vergeben being wrong about the direct just proves leakers/insiders don’t know everything! Plans can indeed be changed!

While yes, I do think that Erdrick is still a possibility, I wouldn’t say he’s a “lock” like before! To me he’s at a 70-80% chance of happening. If anything Verge credibility taking a hit makes it worth it, because speculation can be more fun again. Not to mention I can still have a bit more hope for Sora again!

 

[Gentlepanda]

Heck, I'm not entirely convinced Bravely Default is completely off the table.

like music to my ears

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Its a pipe dream, but that dream consists of Sora hitting Link with a keyblade

 

[Opossum]

I'm still convinced Erdrick is happening.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Like I said last night. Things don't add up when SE made a list of characters to tell people to avoid the secret getting completely out. But then still tell everyone it's Erdrick anyway (Erdrick is the most common heard name). Why would they make the character they are added to smash the most common said name? Wouldn't that defy the whole purpose of making a random list of characters to tell people?

SE didn't create that list. It's a compilation of every name that Vergeben came across from credible sources.
The supposition made by Verge is that Erdrick is the one bc it's the most consistently heard from the sources, but alas, it could be one of the other likely candidates.

If anything Vergeben being wrong about the direct just proves leakers/insiders don’t know everything! Plans can indeed be changed!

While yes, I do think that Erdrick is still a possibility, I wouldn’t say he’s a “lock” like before! To me he’s at a 70-80% chance of happening. If anything Verge credibility taking a hit makes it worth it, because speculation can be more fun again. Not to mention I can still have a bit more hope for Sora again!

To me the chance of happening is 55%, no joke. Hahaha

 

[Deleted member]

Not gonna lie, I would prefer to get Eight from DQ8 more than Erdrick as a fighter.

I am fine with any of the two doh.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

Its a pipe dream, but that dream consists of Sora hitting Link with a keyblade

I’m pretty sure if Sora were to make it, his trailer would practically have to have Link and Cloud fighting, it almost has to be that way!

I can’t see it being done in any other way!

 

[CallMeKnux]

I’m gonna be the odd one out and say I think it’s Luminary. Sora or Erdrick wouldn’t surprise me tho.

 

[MissingGlitch]

SE didn't create that list. It's a compilation of every name that Vergeben came across from credible sources.
The supposition made by Verge is that Erdrick is the one bc it's the most consistently heard from the sources, but alas, it could be one of the other likely candidates.

Regardless that still means SE was trying to spread names around to prevent the real character from getting out. But they might have still told the most people who they were going to add regardless making it all pointless.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I’m pretty sure if Sora were to make it, his trailer would practically have to have Link and Cloud fighting, it almost has to be that way!

I can’t see it being done in any other way!

or it starts with Sora confusing Mr.G&W for a heartless which would be equally as great

 

[Lightspeed97]

Is there anything news from Vergeben? Because he seems to be getting alot of hate and such on Gamefaqs because he got stuff wrong about the direct, so hopefully the guy is okay.

Seems Verge was fed some pretty awful false info. He got the "confirmation" on Zelda hours before the direct. I don't think he's going to speak much on that.

I'm guessing one of his sources either intentionally misled him, or they've been providing him with guesses based on other insider's comments and information they could find.

 

[shinhed-echi]

After thinking it through. The only thing truly hurt by the direct was Vergeben's credibility. A lot of people and sources still have heard about Erdrick, Verge was just one of them.

The Direct actually left me hopeful. If not only for a DQ character in Smash, then for the future of DQ on Nintendo as a whole.

Dragon Quest 3 (and 2, and 1) were top sellers in the 3DS VC (in Japan where they were available), especially DQ3 which held its ground in top 5 throughout most of the 3DS lifespan.
It's only a matter of time until they get announced somehow for the Switch, because Japan won't be kept from the Erdrick trilogy on Switch for long. Especially now that the 3DS has gone underground.

And since the Switch is region free, they might as well do something for the west while they're at it. This direct was pure love for DQ. Especially what they've done with XIs. And Nintendo's publishing both Builders 2 and XIs. (Also, Switch version of Builders 1 got some sweet extras). XIs got ORCHESTRA MUSIC. If that doesn't leave an ugly scar on the whole "composer issue", I don't know what does.

The series got its own little segment, for crying out loud. Maybe that's why staff from Square Enix were all retweeting. It doesn't matter if they worked on different games. They're all family. They even help other teams when they're somehow short on staff.

Still.. Might not mean Erdrick in smash necessarily, but this is far from a setback. It only proved that Nintendo cares a lot about Dragon Quest.

And I end this little rant with a quote I loved from the direct.

"There's RPGs, and then there's Dragon Quest". Nintendo is calling the shots for DLC. Color me confident. I'll eat dirt if I'm wrong, but this is a great sign.

 

[Lightspeed97]

For reference, I still think Erdrick has very high odds, with Tansut backing him and the 5chan leak that got Granblue Fighting and Persona stuff right (the one that only leaked erdrick and joker) also including him. We were still considering him one of the most likely before Verge was ever sure of him. We just need to be careful from now on.

For reference, I still don't know who it is myself.

Thanks for the update on your current standing.

I believe the 5chan leak was piggybacking Hitagi, because I'm pretty sure he was the first to talk about the Granblue and Persona info. Erdrick's name was already thrown around by the time of the 5chan leak too.

But as far as I know Tansut is credible, and leaked Cloud for Sm4sh. So I am personally still expecting Erdrick.

 

[CallMeKnux]

If anything Vergeben being wrong about the direct just proves leakers/insiders don’t know everything! Plans can indeed be changed!

While yes, I do think that Erdrick is still a possibility, I wouldn’t say he’s a “lock” like before! To me he’s at a 70-80% chance of happening. If anything Verge credibility taking a hit makes it worth it, because speculation can be more fun again. Not to mention I can still have a bit more hope for Sora again!

If Verge never knew anything related to Smash and never tried leaking anything, no one would know about him because he’s pretty consistently had a ****ty track record to the point of being a laughing stock in the FGC iirc. Him getting literally anything non-smash related doesn’t surprise me. If he knew it was Erdrick and it still wasn’t in that direct that is interesting, though.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Another thing I want to point out is. You know if Nintendo wanted us to be super surprised by the DLC and about how unexpected it would be. Why would they be spending all their time trying to make it super obvious who one of the DLC characters is? It would be like wrapping a present in front of the person you are going to give it to and wondering how they knew what you gave them before they open it.

 

[Lundcraft]

Seems Verge was fed some pretty awful false info. He got the "confirmation" on Zelda hours before the direct. I don't think he's going to speak much on that.

I sometimes question even leak on gamefaqs, with how toxic people there seem. Either you leak something and people give you **** for leaking or if it's not the thing you wanted. Or you get hated on for getting info wrong. I dont understand why he goes there.

 

[Deleted member]

Another thing I want to point out is. You know if Nintendo wanted us to be super surprised by the DLC and about how unexpected it would be. Why would they be spending all their time trying to make it super obvious who one of the DLC characters is? It would be like wrapping a present in front of the person you are going to give it to and wondering how they knew what you gave them before they open it.

This makes me think about Ed Boon, and I don't know why.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Another thing I want to point out is. You know if Nintendo wanted us to be super surprised by the DLC and about how unexpected it would be. Why would they be spending all their time trying to make it super obvious who one of the DLC characters is? It would be like wrapping a present in front of the person you are going to give it to and wondering how they knew what you gave them before they open it.

I don't understand this point. Are you saying that Erdrick ISN'T misinformation? If so, I agree.

It's likely he's just a poorly kept secret, like Simon Belmont or Inkensabelle.

 

[CallMeKnux]

Another thing I want to point out is. You know if Nintendo wanted us to be super surprised by the DLC and about how unexpected it would be. Why would they be spending all their time trying to make it super obvious who one of the DLC characters is? It would be like wrapping a present in front of the person you are going to give it to and wondering how they knew what you gave them before they open it.

I mean, if this stuff from leakers didn’t happen Erdrick could drop and no one would have seen him coming because the DQ stuff would have gone over most’s heads. Nintendo has been pretty consistently screwed over by fan scrutinizing and leaking, like Ryu/Roy leaking, the box theory, and that one poster with the missing space the night before Joker was revealed. But than again they did get rid of Jack and Brave so maybe they’re learning and you’re right. Who knows?

Also there are a lot of gifts that the givers make extremely obvious around Christmas times (I.e Incineroar)