[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel that many times when people don't have concrete information of something, they just try to find a reason with the most logical stuff they can think of. Masuda seems to be biased towards the cat so for some fans they just think that it was a decision by him and the Pokemon Company rather than Sakurai, when in reality there are probably quite a few reasons behind why a character is chosen rather than a single reason.

If anything, Incineroar was chosen purely by Sakurai for his Wrestling stuff. Decidueye might've been chosen for Pokken DX because he wasn't chosen for Smash, though. That'd actually make sense. Masuda isn't relevant to this and yeah, seems like a bad assumption with nothing to back it up.

 

[Teeb147]

I feel that many times when people don't have concrete information of something, they just try to find a reason with the most logical stuff they can think of. Masuda seems to be biased towards the cat so for some fans they just think that it was a decision by him and the Pokemon Company rather than Sakurai, when in reality there are probably quite a few reasons behind why a character is chosen rather than a single reason.

If anything, Incineroar was chosen purely by Sakurai for his Wrestling stuff. Decidueye might've been chosen for Pokken DX because he wasn't chosen for Smash, though. That'd actually make sense. Masuda isn't relevant to this and yeah, seems like a bad assumption with nothing to back it up.

From what we know it's sakurai that makes the decision, but for a lot of people it can still be easy to assume that the pokemon company, or someone else at nintendo, would be on top of that. Not that many companies give as much liberty to someone like sakurai.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

From what we know it's sakurai that makes the decision, but for a lot of people it can still be easy to assume that the pokemon company, or someone else at nintendo, would be on top of that. Not that many companies give as much liberty to someone like sakurai.

It's more that in some cases they're the only ones that provide the choices Sakurai can choose(which is why it's usually Starters), but also that they have a lot of control over how a Pokemon can be represented, especially costumes. But overall, they don't choose who literally gets in. It's more like they choose what the final set of choices are for Sakurai to choose from.

 

[Idon]

It's more that in some cases they're the only ones that provide the choices Sakurai can choose(which is why it's usually Starters), but also that they have a lot of control over how a Pokemon can be represented, especially costumes. But overall, they don't choose who literally gets in. It's more like they choose what the final set of choices are for Sakurai to choose from.

Basically, don't expect to see Stantler any time soon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Basically, don't expect to see Stantler any time soon.

Or Meowth at this rate.

Though sometimes some choices are odd. I don't know what the buck companies are thinking sometimes.

 

[Teeb147]

It's more that in some cases they're the only ones that provide the choices Sakurai can choose(which is why it's usually Starters), but also that they have a lot of control over how a Pokemon can be represented, especially costumes. But overall, they don't choose who literally gets in. It's more like they choose what the final set of choices are for Sakurai to choose from.

Well, I'd come across this a while ago:

I still think Sakurai thinks about it carefully and probably talks with them and marketing, but it seems to be mainly up to him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, I'd come across this a while ago:

I still think Sakurai thinks about it carefully and probably talks with them and marketing, but it seems to be mainly up to him.

Pretty much this. Keep in mind they gave Sakurai only the 3 starters when it came to choosing an X/Y Pokemon. Could you find that article too? I wonder if they only presented him those three or he asked for those three.

 

[Teeb147]

Pretty much this. Keep in mind they gave Sakurai only the 3 starters when it came to choosing an X/Y Pokemon. Could you find that article too? I wonder if they only presented him those three or he asked for those three.

I only know the one where he talked about including Greninja, and he didn't say he had to choose only from the starters :/
Unless you saw something else.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I only know the one where he talked about including Greninja, and he didn't say he had to choose only from the starters :/
Unless you saw something else.

I only remember the article saying he has a choice of 3 via their concept arts. I might be remembering wrong, though. I think that was the case for Incineroar, though? Not sure. We lack a lot of information. I mean, it's not impossible to only have concept arts of those 3 shown.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Also, I'm so sick of this excuse that people use for Sora. We know his situation but, it's not that complicated as people try to make it out to be. BTW, Nomura is Sora's creator too just like Cloud, so what's your point? If anything he has more of a say for that situation than Disney does.

Uhhhh, Cloud was designed by him, but he didn't create the character at all. That was Nojima with the guiding hand of FF creator Sakaguchi.

 

[Teeb147]

I only remember the article saying he has a choice of 3 via their concept arts. I might be remembering wrong, though. I think that was the case for Incineroar, though? Not sure. We lack a lot of information. I mean, it's not impossible to only have concept arts of those 3 shown.

Maybe you or someone saw this article and it made connections with the starters because they talk about them at first.
But it sounds like it's just sakurai and his team that decide.

"Sakurai planned on including a Pokémon from the then-latest generation. He discussed the matter with his team, and they eventually reached a consensus on Greninja. When Sakurai was made aware of it, all he had to work with were reference drawings. But that was enough to inspire him; that same day, Sakurai stayed awake until midnight to conceptualize Greninja. "

"Picking up on what we were getting at, Sakurai explained that the development team wasn’t waiting to pull something out of Pokémon X and Pokémon Y—there was an open slot for a Pokémon, and the team began discussing who to put in it. Eventually, after a conversation among the various staff, they settled upon Greninja."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Maybe you or someone saw this article and it made connections with the starters because they talk about them at first.
But it sounds like it's just sakurai and his team that decide.

"Sakurai planned on including a Pokémon from the then-latest generation. He discussed the matter with his team, and they eventually reached a consensus on Greninja. When Sakurai was made aware of it, all he had to work with were reference drawings. But that was enough to inspire him; that same day, Sakurai stayed awake until midnight to conceptualize Greninja. "

"Picking up on what we were getting at, Sakurai explained that the development team wasn’t waiting to pull something out of Pokémon X and Pokémon Y—there was an open slot for a Pokémon, and the team began discussing who to put in it. Eventually, after a conversation among the various staff, they settled upon Greninja."

Yep, misread it. We got no clue how it's fully done. It might change depending the situation, then.

 

[Masked Marshmallow]

Sakurai made a post about Smash's 20th Anniversary.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

He said that he's very happy for having created Smash and enjoys seeing that we like the game. He also commented on how fun it is to gather your friends and family to play Smash, while also thanking us for playing the game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Or Meowth at this rate.

Though sometimes some choices are odd. I don't know what the buck companies are thinking sometimes.

Like I said in another post: Eevee should be the Lyn of Pokemon: So popular and promoted that their non-playable role in Smash should be considered absurd, even if it would cause some accusations of oversaturation (Another FE sword user, another gen 1 Pokemon) despite any unique potential they have.

 

[Teeb147]

Yep, misread it. We got no clue how it's fully done. It might change depending the situation, then.

My own impression is that he has almost full control, including because of what the guys from gamefreak said. And he wanted to add from the new gen and might've even considered non-starter pokemon too but then thought better of it because there's no way to know which ones are going to be popular, and just went with a starter because of that. That's my thought on it anyway

It's different for the dlc right now, he said nintendo brought the choices this time.
Anyway, that can be a good thing or a bad thing. Persona was a pretty cool choice, but I doubt it was on the ballot. We might not see anymore ballot characters unless it happens to be a character they can bank on. I dont know what nintendo's thinking tho

Like I said in another post: Eevee should be the Lyn of Pokemon: So popular and promoted that their non-playable role in Smash should be considered absurd, even if it would cause some accusations of oversaturation (Another FE sword user, another gen 1 Pokemon) despite any unique potential they have.

Eevee would've been a great choice really. Sun and Moon were out for way too long and pokemon let's go eevee was around the corner. But maybe they didn't know the timing for all that back at the start of smash development :/ Too bad, I love eevee <3

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Like I said in another post: Eevee should be the Lyn of Pokemon: So popular and promoted that their non-playable role in Smash should be considered absurd, even if it would cause some accusations of oversaturation (Another FE sword user, another gen 1 Pokemon) despite any unique potential they have.

Because the point of Eevee is the eeveelutions. Trying to incorporate them well is no easy task. It might happen in another game, but with a limited time, it made sense to forego it this time for characters he already had an easier idea for. Plus, he already has every Pokemon back. He's not putting in at least two per game anymore due to how huge the roster is. Unless they're hyper easy Echoes at best. So he had one new slot and that was it. If we didn't have every veteran back, it might be a different story, though, assuming he came up with a good idea to faithfully show off Eevee and the eeveelutions.

 

[Teeb147]

Because the point of Eevee is the eeveelutions. Trying to incorporate them well is no easy task. It might happen in another game, but with a limited time, it made sense to forego it this time for characters he already had an easier idea for. Plus, he already has every Pokemon back. He's not putting in at least two per game anymore due to how huge the roster is. Unless they're hyper easy Echoes at best. So he had one new slot and that was it. If we didn't have every veteran back, it might be a different story, though, assuming he came up with a good idea to faithfully show off Eevee and the eeveelutions.

Like I said in another post: Eevee should be the Lyn of Pokemon: So popular and promoted that their non-playable role in Smash should be considered absurd, even if it would cause some accusations of oversaturation (Another FE sword user, another gen 1 Pokemon) despite any unique potential they have.

Before I knew about how eevee would be in the new pkm series, I came up with ideas for the eeveelutions, but it was more for fun cuz I doubte nintendo would try to include all that, even if I think there are ways to do it.

But now, the starter Eevee doesn't even evolve in the new game. So it could've worked fine without the evolutions, with some spin on the new abilities it got. But it might make more sense to include the trainer too, but then you have eevee with a trainer and pikachu without one, and maybe that's a bit odd. And if smash started development before knowing about all that, then that might explain why it couldn't happen. That or sakurai was set on having a wrestler. :O

Anyway. back on SE. Persona was published by Square Enix in some places? Does that count as already having an SE character in?
(I know I know. I just think it's interesting.)

 

[Nemuresu]

Well, since we're now taking some time to discuss Sakurai's decision to include Incineroar instead of Decidueye, I'd like to throw my two cents:
I'm glad it went that way. Why? Because frankly, I think people overestimated what its inclusion in Pokkén meant. Really, just because Harada and co. chose one particular starter, doesn't mean it's the obvious Smash candidate, more so when I could say that about a lot of other pokémon as well (Sceptile, Gengar, Gardevoir, Scizor, Garchomp, etc.).

Plus, I don't want to sound like Ryota Niitsuma (guy in charge of MvC3 for those unaware), but Decidueye is incredibly redundant and generic outside of design. No, seriously. Green archer? We have not one, not two, but three Links in the game already. Winged archer? Pit and Dark Pit exist. You gotta be quite creative to not make him look too similar to other characters.

 

[ZelDan]

I didn't really want a Pokemon newcomer in general. If it had to be one I would have wanted it to be Decidueye just for having a cooler design and for being the one I went with in Pokemon Moon. Incineroar is the reason I didn't end up choosing litten in the first place despite liking its first and second forms...

this news doesn't exactly bother me that much since, again, a pokemon rep in general was/is just meh to me. It must suck to be someone who actually seriously wanted the bird though.

 

[Rumble Red]

Incineroar and Decidueye are both decent choices, but my preference will always be closer to the weird/cute end of the scale. No actual favourite of mine would ever stand a chance of making it, so I didn't have much stake in that spot.

Spoiler

My never-ever-gonna-happen pick was Lusamine/Nihilego, spoilers be damned.

 

[Idon]

Well, since we're now taking some time to discuss Sakurai's decision to include Incineroar instead of Decidueye, I'd like to throw my two cents:
I'm glad it went that way. Why? Because frankly, I think people overestimated what its inclusion in Pokkén meant. Really, just because Harada and co. chose one particular starter, doesn't mean it's the obvious Smash candidate, more so when I could say that about a lot of other pokémon as well (Sceptile, Gengar, Gardevoir, Scizor, Garchomp, etc.).

Plus, I don't want to sound like Ryota Niitsuma (guy in charge of MvC3 for those unaware), but Decidueye is incredibly redundant and generic outside of design. No, seriously. Green archer? We have not one, not two, but three Links in the game already. Winged archer? Pit and Dark Pit exist. You gotta be quite creative to not make him look too similar to other characters.

If you reduce a character to that extent then yeah, I guess you might as well say there's no point in adding anything if they share even the faintest similarities with someone already in game.

 

[StormC]

“We already have a bunch of fat king villains, we don’t need K. Rool”

“We already have a bunch of RPG protagonists with swords, we don’t need Joker”

 

[Nemuresu]

If you reduce a character to that extent then yeah, I guess you might as well say there's no point in adding anything if they share even the faintest similarities with someone already in game.

It doesn't make sense, yes, but I seriously struggle coming up a good moveset that makes it not clash with Link and Pit as an "archer with blades". You gotta come up with some Hawkeye-styled arrows to make him look unique. At least Incineroar didn't struggle with that because it's a dedicated wrestler, which barely clashes with the likes of K. Rool and Bowser.

 

[Luigi The President]

Love discussing Decidueye vs Incineroar in the Squenix thread

 

[Ovaltine]

Love discussing Decidueye vs Incineroar in the Squenix thread

Decidueye is a cool guy with a cape who shoots things and has very round eyes

Obviously Geno = Decidueye = Square Rep? Math?? Math.

 

[T3Z3R1]

“We already have a bunch of RPG protagonists with swords, we don’t need Joker”

>RPG protagonists
>WITH SWORD
>JOKER HAVE KNIVES

Come on, It doesn't have to be RPG without sword you know,

Earthbound which is JRPG, and guess what did Ness use? PSI!

 

[Graizen]

This Square Enix talk is so good , my god

 

[StormC]

>RPG protagonists
>WITH SWORD
>JOKER HAVE KNIVES

Come on, It doesn't have to be RPG without sword you know,

Earthbound which is JRPG, and guess what did Ness use? PSI!

You'd be surprised how many people wrote off Joker as a swordsman the moment after his reveal.

Pretty obvious at this point that any anime-esque character gets pushback when they're revealed. Can't wait for the Erdrick announcement!

 

[Ovaltine]

>RPG protagonists
>WITH SWORD
>JOKER HAVE KNIVES

Come on, It doesn't have to be RPG without sword you know,

Earthbound which is JRPG, and guess what did Ness use? PSI!

but knife like small sword therefore the joker bade
/s

 

[ZelDan]

We already had a fast character with Falcon, therefor we should have never gotten Sonic.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

>RPG protagonists
>WITH SWORD
>JOKER HAVE KNIVES

Come on, It doesn't have to be RPG without sword you know,

Earthbound which is JRPG, and guess what did Ness use? PSI!

Exactly, why are people hatin’ on RPGs in Smash, when it’s not the most represented genre in the game. If anything platformers are the most represented genre in Smash.

Besides Sakurai is practically a lover of RPGs, he’s expressed this many times, if you pay attention to the kind of games he plays. RPG characters can be creative, not everyone has a sword!

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Exactly, why are people hatin’ on RPGs in Smash, when it’s not the most represented genre in the game. If anything platformers are the most represented genre in Smash.

Besides Sakurai is practically a lover of RPGs, he’s expressed this many times, if you pay attention to the kind of games he plays. RPG characters can be creative, not everyone has a sword!

And if they do have a sword they can still be unique I really hate the term generic anime Swordsman the mostly applies to Fire Emblem most of its cast at least

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And if they do have a sword they can still be unique I really hate the term generic anime Swordsman the mostly applies to Fire Emblem most of its cast at least

Well, more that the Lords, which is generally the main character(s) in the story, tend to be swordsman. The FE cast is diverse with weapons. The ones we have playable do have a sword as their main weapon, so it's just who they happen to be. Kind of unfortunate in that way.

Exactly, why are people hatin’ on RPGs in Smash, when it’s not the most represented genre in the game. If anything platformers are the most represented genre in Smash.

Besides Sakurai is practically a lover of RPGs, he’s expressed this many times, if you pay attention to the kind of games he plays. RPG characters can be creative, not everyone has a sword!

Funny thing is just about every rpg character we have happens to also be a sword wielder, bar Joker. It's a very common main weapon for an rpg character, since the main character is often the hero of the story, who also happens to usually be a sword wielder as their canonical main weapon. As I said a bit above, it just happens to work out that way. We still have some who are the main character and not a sword wielder, besides Joker, like Zidane from FFIX, Brian from Quest 64, for two quick examples(I do wish I could think of more, to be honest...).

 

[Idon]

Well, more that the Lords, which is generally the main character(s) in the story, tend to be swordsman. The FE cast is diverse with weapons. The ones we have playable do have a sword as their main weapon, so it's just who they happen to be. Kind of unfortunate in that way.


Funny thing is just about every rpg character we have happens to also be a sword wielder, bar Joker. It's a very common main weapon for an rpg character, since the main character is often the hero of the story, who also happens to usually be a sword wielder as their canonical main weapon. As I said a bit above, it just happens to work out that way. We still have some who are the main character and not a sword wielder, besides Joker, like Zidane from FFIX, Brian from Quest 64, for two quick examples(I do wish I could think of more, to be honest...).

ahem

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

ahem
View attachment 187681

If I haven't played the game, it's not easy to think about. XD

 

[Deleted member]

For JRPGs a few of the protagonists that dont use swords that I can think of are:
-Shion(Auxiliary Arm if I recall correctly)/KOS-MOS(Cannons) from Xenosaga
-Vyse from Skyes of Arcadia uses Twin Cutlasses if using 2 blades count
-Senel from Tales of Legendia uses his fists
-Yuri from Shadow Hearts uses fists as well
-Arguably Mario in RPGs
-Fei Wong from Xenogears uses his fists
If you notice a few of them are not exactly what I would call known even if they belong to a rather known series.

 

[Idon]

If I haven't played the game, it's not easy to think about. XD

I've been carrying around this giant signature and this profile icon and you still don't know?
You wound me.

Demi-fiend from SMT3, Glow-in-the-dark-tats, black shorts, topless, punches stuff, can't miss him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

View attachment 187688

I've been carrying around this giant signature and this profile icon and you still don't know?
You wound me.

Demi-fiend from SMT3, Glow-in-the-dark-tats, black shorts, topless, punches stuff, can't miss him.

I don't have signatures on, actually. Slows down my computer. I focus on other games, so... yeah.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

and instead of cheaping out like Bamco did

Oh? What happened there?

 

[perfectchaos83]

Oh? What happened there?

They only dubbed lines that Troy Baker didn't originally dub. Though, that's also a tough spot to be in. I'm not sure how people would have reacted to recasting Grant George as Yuri for the full game since Yuri is one of Troy Baker's most beloved Roles.