[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Deleted member]

If Joker is so early into development, there's no way Spirits deconfirm characters. And you guys know what I mean with this.

 

[Flyboy]

If Joker is so early into development, there's no way Spirits deconfirm characters. And you guys know what I mean with this.

Ryota Hayami has this.

 

[Deleted member]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...ys-online-matchmaking-is-under-investigation/
Official confirmation that Joker hadn't even started development when he was revealed.
Makes me doubt the leaker knows anything about his stage/moveset even more.

Could still be in the planning phase though. Even if development hadn't started yet I think they would decide what they want him to be like and what they want the stage to be before starting development.

 

[Potatu]

If Joker is so early into development, there's no way Spirits deconfirm characters. And you guys know what I mean with this.

Finally, Ness' dad will be in Smash. I thought it was insulting he wasn't playable, but now he'll get in as DLC

 

[ThreeT]

If Joker is so early into development, there's no way Spirits deconfirm characters. And you guys know what I mean with this.

Not necessarily true. If the characters were chosen months before then spirits still could deconfirm. All they needed to do is not add them in the base game as spirits and put them as characters later.

 

[Nekoo]

If Joker is so early into development, there's no way Spirits deconfirm characters. And you guys know what I mean with this.

Y'all know that "Not in a playable State" doesn't mean "**** dwag we haven't even started!"

It can mean all or nothing. Not a playable State can mean In game but absolutely glitched/Not balanced/Not working/Not complete/ or actually not playable yet

Y'all jumping on conclusion already.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

If Joker is so early into development, there's no way Spirits deconfirm characters. And you guys know what I mean with this.

Not really. He could be closer to playable state than we think. And let's not forget that the DLC has already been picked anyway so Joker shouldn't have an effect on that either.

What we need to see, is a Pirahna Plant spirit in-game before that dlc releases to put the theory to bed.

 

[Untouch]

You can argue that development was underway for Joker, but if he wasn't in a playable state, who would have been leaking this stuff?
For the record, I still believe Erdrick (or another DQ rep) is going to be the DLC, I just don't believe this leak outside of the P5R stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys forget there are 4 other DLC fighters. If Joker isn't even in a playable stage, then how do you expect, say, the 5th fighter to have any work on them done? At most, negotiations for 3rd Party characters started around E3 and at that point most Spirits would have been done already.
Basically, what I mean in the context of this thread is that Geno's Spirit means nothing.

 

[Nekoo]

You guys forget there are 4 other DLC fighters. If Joker isn't even in a playable stage, then how do you expect, say, the 5th fighter to have any work on them done? At most, negotiations for 3rd Party characters started around E3 and at that point most Spirits would have been done already.
Basically, what I mean in the context of this thread is that Geno's Spirit means nothing.

That's reaching. You might need that pool stick to go further.

Third party deal absolutely started before E3.
If DURING E3 Reggie was teasing a VGA reveal.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

A new day, a new can of worms opened. We have no way of knowing for sure if the dlc was decided some time before or after E3. This will be fun..

 

[Deleted member]

Keep in mind that the entire reason this thread exists is because a SE character has been rumoured since August, and even before that. Third party negotiations have almost certainly been taking place since July at least based on various rumours, if were to believe them of course.
On the Joker thing, it hurts the 5ch leak. Joker being non-playable likely means some work has been done on him but he isn’t actually controllable yet. It’s intersting that Sakurai said that Nintendo told him to reveal Joekr at TGA, likely making that Joker was originally supposed to be the second or third DLC character revealed, which would also explain why Verge thought Square came first as DLC. The 5ch leak would only know stuff about Joker is they had sources in development or worked at atlas to know about this stuff, the former of which seems unlikely and the latter being possible, but would provide confusion as to the Erdrick info.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai tweeted that the DLC selection "finalized" on November, so a few characters being decided before that makes sense.

 

[Untouch]

Sakurai in the direct mentioned that DLC characters were decided around the time that the roster was being finalized (which is why Rex/Pyra aren't DLC).
IIRC Cloud and Bayonetta have different filesystems compared to the rest of Smash 4 so I wouldn't be surprised if DLC was decided late 2016.

Sakurai's Persona 5 column about UI was posted late 2016 as well, along with the interview with Horii and Sakurai about DQXI.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

My thoughts on the Sakurai statement.

To this day, we do not really know how much work goes into a character via official statements. Through datamining, we can tell that Bayonetta began work sometime around April in Smash 4's DLC lifeline. This is a pretty good barometer as far as we can tell. They are likely working on each character around the same time. I would wager that Sakurai did not want to show off Joker for the same reason he did not want to show off Mewtwo earlier in Smash 4's cycle: The character is not in a near final state yet. Piranha Plant is still getting tweeks still.

Essentially, a lot of what we say is just stuff to tide over consumers. We can not just assume that Joker is completely non playable. Rather, let us just say that he is imcomplete. He likely is more done than we think. I would wager around 65-70%. Piranha Plant in November I would wager 90%.

The thing that strikes me the most is how Nintendo wanted Joker at the VGAs. This in my opinion is important for two reasons. I feel we can assume from this while Joker was planned obviously, he was planned for a later reveal. Nintendo wanted something flashy that would go over well with Western audiences at the VGAs. This means whatever character was first in line likely would not have made as much of a splash as Joker would have at the VGAs.

In my opinion, the only Square character hurt by this is Sora. Sora is huge, KH is massive. It would have been a bigger reveal to do. As such, I feel if we assume Verg was right and the SE character was supposed to be first, it is not Sora.

DQ makes sense to not reveal at the VGAs. It is still primarily popular in Japan. It would not make sense to reveal at such a Western event.

Geno also makes sense not to show. He is popular with Smash fans. He is not someone that non smash fans generally know. I know P5 is not the biggest game, but it had a huge release.

Sephiroth would be revealing a character who is in an existing franchise in Smash. I feel that is self evident.

And Chrono is kind of a more niche pick given how CT is an older game.

Now, if DLC was finalized in November, I feel that was the final character in wave 1 was determined. I feel that this does not affect the SE character, given we can tell that they were negotiated earlier. I feel that we likely will get our Second DLC trailer after we see Joker in action.

If I had to guess who it was, I would say I lean heavily toward DQ. It fits the narrative for not wanting to have a Japanese heavy franchise at the VGAs. Geno would be helped too, but I feel the status of Spirits is a bit of a mess.

What have we learned? Less that I thought, more than you think.

 

[Ovaltine]

You guys forget there are 4 other DLC fighters. If Joker isn't even in a playable stage, then how do you expect, say, the 5th fighter to have any work on them done? At most, negotiations for 3rd Party characters started around E3 and at that point most Spirits would have been done already.
Basically, what I mean in the context of this thread is that Geno's Spirit means nothing.

As much as I'm a massive advocate for Geno and believe that spirits don't deconfirm, even with the Piranha Plant thing going on, I think that's still a bit of a reach. Honestly, the spirits deconfirming thing is so vague and has evidence for and against it that it feels like a flimsy fan made rule that could either be broken or remain untouched. We don't know when most spirits were already done, and only further insight on the development process would really shed light on that.

 

[REZERO]

I mean in a sense spirits do deconfirm because they are like "rewards" for people who wanted the actual character. It doesn't 100% deconfirm a character but it definitely adds on to the realization.

 

[Deleted member]

That's reaching. You might need that pool stick to go further.

Third party deal absolutely started before E3.
If DURING E3 Reggie was teasing a VGA reveal.

There's a reason I said "at most".

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

You guys forget there are 4 other DLC fighters. If Joker isn't even in a playable stage, then how do you expect, say, the 5th fighter to have any work on them done?

Could be early as June next year for all we know. And let's be honest. We don't know the inner workings. For all we know, there could be multiple mini teams dedicated to each character which ramps up the pace.

Also, Sakurai never stated how close to a playable state Joker was. He could be in the testing phase. Like "playable" could mean, when he's actually ready to be shown off a week or two before his release or something.

And like Nekoo said, they'd been planning some character reveal at the VGA since at least E3 2018. And if you wanna argue that they weren't planning Joker until way later, then that could mean that had a different DLC character in mind. Either way, there's no evidence to suggest that the DLC wasn't decided to a point where they had enough to know which spirits to include or not.

Sephiroth would be revealing a character who is in an existing franchise in Smash. I feel that is self evident.

And they could be saving him for a reveal along with the FF games coming to Switch, or at E3 to coincide with more FFVII remake info showing up there hopefully.

At most, negotiations for 3rd Party characters started around E3 and at that point most Spirits would have been done already.

That's....kind of unlikely. It was suggested as early as November this year that the DLC characters were already chosen, suggesting a point of finality. Spirits never got that. In fact, we're still getting more, which suggests that, if anything, DLC characters, negotiations and whatnot, started before Spirits.

 

[Iridium]

"The Legendary Erdrick takes on a new quest!"

I can see it now. I also want to see how many people get confused if he's ever referred to as Roto/Loto.

Also, can anyone inform me on the possible ways he/she can use magic?

 

[Untouch]

The interview to me sounds like Joker is an outlier and the rest of the characters are going to be revealed with gameplay.

 

[Deleted member]

"The Legendary Erdrick takes on a new quest!"

I can see it now. I also want to see how many people get confused if he's ever referred to as Roto/Loto.

Also, can anyone inform me on the possible ways he/she can use magic?

Typically in DQ games, there's a few classes of offensive spells:
Frizz, a fireball spell
Sizz, a rolling fire spell
Crack, a spell that casts icicle bolts
Boom, a spell that creates a large explosion
and Zap, a spell that brings down a large thunderbolt in front of the caster.

The spells I had in mind for them to use were Crack (a low-damage combo starter type of move), Sizz (a flame that moves forward on the ground in a wave), and Zap (like Pikachu's thunder but can be used remotely).
Each spell also has tiers to them; the suffix -le being the second tier and the prefix ka- being the highest tier. So, I also think that each spell could be charged up (but not held like Samus' charge shot) into Crackle/Kacrack, Sizzle/Kasizz, and Zapple/Kazap to make them stronger and more effective.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

On the Joker thing, it hurts the 5ch leak. Joker being non-playable likely means some work has been done on him but he isn’t actually controllable yet. It’s intersting that Sakurai said that Nintendo told him to reveal Joekr at TGA, likely making that Joker was originally supposed to be the second or third DLC character revealed, which would also explain why Verge thought Square came first as DLC. The 5ch leak would only know stuff about Joker is they had sources in development or worked at atlas to know about this stuff, the former of which seems unlikely and the latter being possible, but would provide confusion as to the Erdrick info.

That's the best thing about this reveal if it means we can still have a surprise.

Sakurai in the direct mentioned that DLC characters were decided around the time that the roster was being finalized (which is why Rex/Pyra aren't DLC).
IIRC Cloud and Bayonetta have different filesystems compared to the rest of Smash 4 so I wouldn't be surprised if DLC was decided late 2016.

Sakurai's Persona 5 column about UI was posted late 2016 as well, along with the interview with Horii and Sakurai about DQXI.

Oh snap! He also had that column praising Ace Attorney and met with Shu Takumi in 2016 as well. If Edrick does turn out to be in Smash Ultimate, this bodes well for Phoenix Wright.

 

[Flyboy]

That's the best thing about this reveal if it means we can still have a surprise.

Oh snap! He also had that column praising Ace Attorney and met with Shu Takumi in 2016 as well. If Edrick does turn out to be in Smash Ultimate, this bodes well for Phoenix Wright.

I'm a lot more cautious in our optimism than you are...but it really does look as though the pieces are lining up to get both of my most-wanted in one pass..

C'mon, Phoenix!

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I'm a lot more cautious in our optimism than you are...but it really does look as though the pieces are lining up to get both of my most-wanted in one pass..

C'mon, Phoenix!

Oh I'm cautious too. I just keep getting giddy everytime a piece of the puzzle in our favor falls into place!

 

[Captain Fun]

Typically in DQ games, there's a few classes of offensive spells:
Frizz, a fireball spell
Sizz, a rolling fire spell
Crack, a spell that casts icicle bolts
Boom, a spell that creates a large explosion
and Zap, a spell that brings down a large thunderbolt in front of the caster.

The spells I had in mind for them to use were Crack (a low-damage combo starter type of move), Sizz (a flame that moves forward on the ground in a wave), and Zap (like Pikachu's thunder but can be used remotely).
Each spell also has tiers to them; the suffix -le being the second tier and the prefix ka- being the highest tier. So, I also think that each spell could be charged up (but not held like Samus' charge shot) into Crackle/Kacrack, Sizzle/Kasizz, and Zapple/Kazap to make them stronger and more effective.

I kind of like the idea of weird support spells like Kaclang (AKA: Ironize) that turn the party to steel rendering them both invincible/immobile.

 

[EarlTamm]

Found this out in the Joker thread, Sakurai just had his latest column on Famitsu and he talks about Joker a bit and the DLC workload.
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...ate-jokers-reveal-getting-some-rest-and-more/

 

[Luigi The President]

That's the best thing about this reveal if it means we can still have a surprise.

Oh snap! He also had that column praising Ace Attorney and met with Shu Takumi in 2016 as well. If Edrick does turn out to be in Smash Ultimate, this bodes well for Phoenix Wright.

....**** bro if Erdrick gives me ****ing PHOENIX WRIGHT....me likey

Also; thank god we won't see the 5ch leak as gospel now.

 

[PolarPanda]

You all are talking about the Joker statements made by Sakurai, but sleeping on the fact that.... P5S, P5M, and PSB just became registered domains under Atlus' server. That's a whole lot of P5 games.

 

[Luigi The President]

You all are talking about the Joker statements made by Sakurai, but sleeping on the fact that.... P5S, P5M, and PSB just became registered domains under Atlus' server. That's a whole lot of P5 games.

Well...this ain't the Joker general lol
Certainly cool though. Perhaps "P5S" and "PSB" are the /S/hooter and /B/oard games.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

....**** bro if Erdrick gives me ****ing PHOENIX WRIGHT....me likey

Also; thank god we won't see the 5ch leak as gospel now.

I gotta ask why is this good for Phoenix lol I kinda don't understand lol

 

[Luigi The President]

I gotta ask why is this good for Phoenix lol I kinda don't understand lol

Oh don't ask me lol just going off the post

 

[EarlTamm]

Well...this ain't the Joker general lol
Certainly cool though. Perhaps "P5S" and "PSB" are the /S/hooter and /B/oard games.

I just imagined a Mario Party like game with the Persona cast. A game series all about friendship put into a format that will lead to hatred among friends. How ironic would that be?

 

[Icewolff92]

I gotta ask why is this good for Phoenix lol I kinda don't understand lol

Probably because of the fact that Sakurai is an open fan of both Dragon Quest and Persona, and now if both got included, I think it's safe to assume that Sakurai might have gotten a bigger hand in the selection or Nintendo has thrown him an extremely big bone for good measures.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I gotta ask why is this good for Phoenix lol I kinda don't understand lol

It's simply because if both Joker and Edrick get in. The patterns regarding them line up neatly with the christmas circumstances surrounding Phoenix as Sakurai gave a column to each of them in 2016, and like with the DQ team, met with Shu Takumi on publicly unexplained terms in 2016, during which DLC would be in the works, especially when it came to planning and negotiations.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

It's simply because if both Joker and Edrick get in. The patterns regarding them line up neatly with the christmas circumstances surrounding Phoenix as Sakurai gave a column to each of them in 2016, and like with the DQ team, met with Shu Takumi on publicly unexplained terms in 2016, during which DLC would be in the works, especially when it came to planning and negotiations.

Oh okay so Dragon Quest and Ace Attorney could be in neat

 

[Flyboy]

I wish it was as simple as just deciding which games of the past few years Sakurai enjoyed and wrote columns about because then I could make a case for 2B as the Square rep and get three most-wanted characters in.

 

[Deleted member]

I get the feeling that we may be getting some oddball characters in, considering Sakurai comments regarding that Nintendo selecting and him seeing if he can make a moveset out of it. PW is an oddball character that can be put in the game considering MvC so I think he is possible.

Wonder if PW is in what would be the layout of his stage. Can imagine the hazards would be the judge, witnesses, and lawyers but if the scenario would be similar to the Wii Fit of FE ones in that its flat with some platforms and obstacles.

I wish it was as simple as just deciding which games of the past few years Sakurai enjoyed and wrote columns about because then I could make a case for 2B as the Square rep and get three most-wanted characters in.

That would make DQ more certain, considering how relatively often Sakurai writes and tweets about it compared to many other series.

 

[lordvaati]

Can I get some reshpeckt for Eight please

The only DQ protag I've ever loved

I mean he is the reason why the series is called "Dragon Quest" in the States now so thats a plus

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...ys-online-matchmaking-is-under-investigation/
Official confirmation that Joker hadn't even started development when he was revealed.
Makes me doubt the leaker knows anything about his stage/moveset even more.

Well I don’t think we should take that leak seriously anymore, but I still wouldn’t count out Erdrick neither. If anything these comments basically further proves that no one really knows the DLC, and we shouldn’t trust these leaks.