[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I mean he is the reason why the series is called "Dragon Quest" in the States now so thats a plus

If Erdrick is Marth, then we can consider Eight to be Lyn. I guess Luminary can be Corrin

 

[MyDude213]

Kingdom Hearts is wild because you have **** like this and it isn't even the most nonsensical plot point

Playing KH3D taught me three things tho:
-I understand less of this plot than Metal Gear lore and I have never played a Metal Gear game.
-This is just Final Fantasy on drugs
-Sora and Riku are a Naruto and Sasuke ripoff.

I could understand the whole Riku being a pseudo Sasuke thing but Sora and Naruto are nothing alike apart from being the good guy. Also no **** you don't understand the plot you played the last game in the timeline before KH3 with zero context of what happened in previous games. KH doesn't follow the same story writing Final Fantasy games follow where none of the games are exactly follow ups of the first game. KH is a saga that's like saying that the plot of Harry Potter is all over the place after only reading the very last book in the series then making your review. That's a nonsensical criticism because ya no **** you don't understand what's going on you have zero context to fall back on.

 

[Luigi The President]

I could understand the whole Riku being a pseudo Sasuke thing but Sora and Naruto are nothing alike apart from being the good guy. Also no **** you don't understand the plot you played the last game in the timeline before KH3 with zero context of what happened in previous games. KH doesn't follow the same story writing Final Fantasy games follow where none of the games are exactly follow ups of the first game. KH is a saga that's like saying that the plot of Harry Potter is all over the place after only reading the very last book in the series then making your review. That's a nonsensical criticism because ya no **** you don't understand what's going on you have zero context to fall back on.

Chill the **** out this isn't criticism this is just illustrating how KH is a really crazy game which is why people love it
Take a solid chill pill and think before you post

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Honestly as a Kingdom Hearts fan, I play for the gameplay rather than the characters or story.

I can count the number of well written characters in kingdom hearts on one hand. And that is not even considering how they have messed with some characters making them less engaging characters.

Also any story with time travel will automatically be confusing. The story was not so bad before X and DDD. Understanding the BBS-Coded story is relatively easy. DDD is where things get dumb and X is weird.

Keep in mind I love these games, KH2FM is the best action hack and slash of all time. KH1 is a nostalgic romp if you can forgive it’s rough aging. CoM is a great experience on the gba. BBS, while having a poor combat engine, still is fun. 358 has a good story tbh.

So yeah, I would want sora. But Kingdom Hearts is a confusing franchise that has DDD to blame for a bunch of story flaws. Also DDD and BBS are dumb games in terms of combat.

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly as a Kingdom Hearts fan, I play for the gameplay rather than the characters or story.

I can count the number of well written characters in kingdom hearts on one hand. And that is not even considering how they have messed with some characters making them less engaging characters.

Also any story with time travel will automatically be confusing. The story was not so bad before X and DDD. Understanding the BBS-Coded story is relatively easy. DDD is where things get dumb and X is weird.

Keep in mind I love these games, KH2FM is the best action hack and slash of all time. KH1 is a nostalgic romp if you can forgive it’s rough aging. CoM is a great experience on the gba. BBS, while having a poor combat engine, still is fun. 358 has a good story tbh.

So yeah, I would want sora. But Kingdom Hearts is a confusing franchise that has DDD to blame for a bunch of story flaws. Also DDD and BBS are dumb games in terms of combat.

NGL this is the first I've ever heard of someone playing KH for the gameplay and not the story

 

[TCT~Phantom]

NGL this is the first I've ever heard of someone playing KH for the gameplay and not the story

KHs story is marred by bad writing and internal retcons. Nomura writes from the seat of his pants. If the story was handled right it would be much better.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I stopped caring about the story when it became about Organization 13 and Xehanort. I loved all the Disney focus and Final Fantasy. Gameplay is mostly what keeps me going.

 

[Deleted member]

I played KH3D solely for the gameplay and I loved it for the crazy action RPG it is(with Pokemon elements which tbh I loved).

I could understand the whole Riku being a pseudo Sasuke thing but Sora and Naruto are nothing alike apart from being the good guy. Also no **** you don't understand the plot you played the last game in the timeline before KH3 with zero context of what happened in previous games. KH doesn't follow the same story writing Final Fantasy games follow where none of the games are exactly follow ups of the first game. KH is a saga that's like saying that the plot of Harry Potter is all over the place after only reading the very last book in the series then making your review. That's a nonsensical criticism because ya no **** you don't understand what's going on you have zero context to fall back on.

I could play KH and KH2 and I doubt any of it would still make sense to me.

Also, games really shouldn't need you to play past games to understand what's going on, that's simply not viable in this media format. That's not to say I don't appreciate such writing style, I love me some big sagas but there's a reason KH and Metal Gear are so alienating to newcomers.

EDIT: Also, Sora is 100% a Naruto ripoff and Kishimoto should sue Nomura for this.

 

[Robertman2]

DDD is where the series jumped the shark stories wise

 

[StormC]

I played KH3D solely for the gameplay and I loved it for the crazy action RPG it is(with Pokemon elements which tbh I loved).

I could play KH and KH2 and I doubt any of it would still make sense to me.

Also, games really shouldn't need you to play past games to understand what's going on, that's simply not viable in this media format. That's not to say I don't appreciate such writing style, I love me some big sagas but there's a reason KH and Metal Gear are so alienating to newcomers.

EDIT: Also, Sora is 100% a Naruto ripoff and Kishimoto should sue Nomura for this.

I don’t think MGS is especially alienating to newcomers, I got into the series in 2012 and it’s a pretty cut and dry trajectory. It’s not any different from a TV show requiring you to watch previous seasons.

1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > PW > 5

Although really PW and V’s stories are pretty crap but eh.

 

[Luigi The President]

I don’t think MGS is especially alienating to newcomers, I got into the series in 2012 and it’s a pretty cut and dry trajectory.

1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > PW > 5

Although really PW and V’s stories are pretty crap but eh.

MGS has one of the most complex, twisty stories in gaming. I think that's what they meant.

 

[MajoraMan28]

NGL this is the first I've ever heard of someone playing KH for the gameplay and not the story

Well, there is a lot of people in the FF community that feels the same way.
I, for one, also play for the gameplay. Nomura is a terrible storyteller who lacks the basic understanding of FF characters (hence Cloud being portrayed so badly and emo-like with KH and the expanded universe). He is a great character designer, and should stay that way and work on that position. Directing and writing with him is off the rails

 

[CardiganBoy]

Looking at their action figures together, I think Erdrick and Luminary are around a similar enough height to work.

View attachment 184406 I tried matching it up, but It's probably a little bit off.

It could work, but I would just hope that they'd give them both their own victory animations and such.

That, could work pretty well, classic and modern DQ represented in one, and speaking of figures, isn't Sakurai very avid at collecting and using them for animation reference? He even made a tweet during Smash4's development showing his Pit, Samus, Link, Mewtwo figures.
Not that it means anything but i like to imagine him posing that Erdrick figure on his desk lol.

 

[MajoraMan28]

About the P5 stuff and the S-E leak, I think we can assume that the DLC characters might be developed alongside each other, and that Nintendo might have wanted Joker first because of a potential announcement of sorts.
This means that probably the Joker DLC might not have been the first DLC produced, and what we've been hearing of S-E having the first DLC character slot might have been real after all.
Also, we've stated this numerous times here, but DLC planning has been going on for months before the game launched, and it is plausible to assume it might have been going on even before E3, given how long it takes for all of the legal measures to be put into effect and officialized.

 

[beans]

Joker details are interesting.
I feel like this pretty much confirms that Pirana was meant to be base, if the other DLC character wasnt in the same state.
I mean, with the stats already being in the game it should already be confirmed, but this is just the nail on the coffin.
If Pirana was meant to be base, of course there wouldnt be a spirit of it. It is in a entirely different state when compared to other DLC inside the team.
Also, was Sakurai surprised that Joker was going to be revealed already? It would shown even more that Sakurai doesnt have a hand in the DLC management stuff. It would take a lot of time to animate the trailer and I doubt Sakurai wouldnt know about it if he was in charge or atleast do 1+1 and see what NoJ was planning.

 

[Luigi The President]

Joker details are interesting.
I feel like this pretty much confirms that Pirana was meant to be base, if the other DLC character wasnt in the same state.
I mean, with the stats already being in the game it should already be confirmed, but this is just the nail on the coffin.
If Pirana was meant to be base, of course there wouldnt be a spirit of it. It is in a entirely different state when compared to other DLC inside the team.
Also, was Sakurai surprised that Joker was going to be revealed already? It would shown even more that Sakurai doesnt have a hand in the DLC management stuff. It would take a lot of time to animate the trailer and I doubt Sakurai wouldnt know about it if he was in charge or atleast do 1+1 and see what NoJ was planning.

Piranha Plant getting a Spirit wasn't a guarantee even still.
Many Mario baddies don't have a Spirit. It's selective bias at work.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Piranha Plant getting a Spirit wasn't a guarantee even still.
Many Mario baddies don't have a Spirit. It's selective bias at work.

From my understanding, Sakurai just let the team go to work while mostly supervising. He gave them a lot of "power" this time around, not doing nearly as much.

So either A) It's gone because they don't want it to appear as a regular Spirit(as well as a separate Fighter Spirit) till after the DLC comes or B) It just wasn't a spirit they wanted to make.

 

[Luigi The President]

From my understanding, Sakurai just let the team go to work while mostly supervising. He gave them a lot of "power" this time around, not doing nearly as much.

So either A) It's gone because they don't want it to appear as a regular Spirit(as well as a separate Fighter Spirit) till after the DLC comes or B) It just wasn't a spirit they wanted to make.

And B is still pretty likely, guys.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And B is still pretty likely, guys.

I think we didn't know that Sakurai had his team do most of the work when we speculated about why Piranha Plant had no spirit, so at the time, A made more sense at the time.

Now B does due to new information. As Darkwing Duck would say; yup yup yup.

 

[beans]

From my understanding, Sakurai just let the team go to work while mostly supervising. He gave them a lot of "power" this time around, not doing nearly as much.

So either A) It's gone because they don't want it to appear as a regular Spirit(as well as a separate Fighter Spirit) till after the DLC comes or B) It just wasn't a spirit they wanted to make.

I believe Pirana was meant to be base, so no spirit means nothing.
I dont want to too much of a downer but a "Hey guys, have fun, but dont make any of these specific characters as a spirit" feels like the most possible scenario.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe Pirana was meant to be base, so no spirit means nothing.
I dont want to too much of a downer but a "Hey guys, have fun, but dont make any of these specific characters as a spirit" feels like the most possible scenario.

Sakurai also confirmed no characters were added or removed from the project plan. There's a good chance he was intended to be DLC from the start and got worked on starting around last minute, after everybody else was finished. Though then again, he might've been planned very early on to be in, but changed to DLC instead of base roster(which would still mean he wasn't removed from the project plan). It's a very weird situation. Considering how rushed the game is and all.

 

[beans]

Sakurai also confirmed no characters were added or removed from the project plan. There's a good chance he was intended to be DLC from the start and got worked on starting around last minute, after everybody else was finished. Though then again, he might've been planned very early on to be in, but changed to DLC instead of base roster(which would still mean he wasn't removed from the project plan). It's a very weird situation. Considering how rushed the game is and all.

A scenario of "We have some people free so why not get a headstart with PP" would be a bit strange.
A early start would explain the stats already in the code but would also mean that spirits are in a even weird place.
If Pirana was DLC then spirits disconfirm. But since it was made alongside base development, it would explain why it wouldnt need a spirit.
I dont have enough fanrules to throw anymore.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I personally feel like Piranha Plant doesn't have a Spirit in base game specifically because he was planned very early on into the DLC lineup, and it would look weird to have a plain Piranha Plant spirit in the game only to have him come in later as a newcomer with a Fighter Spirit. Lucas and Mewtwo had the benefit of being returning veterans, which isn't a case that can repeat for DLC this time around.

Honestly, while I won't tell anyone else to give up hope, I'm of the opinion that Spirits are a bar for entry to DLC, basically a 'this is the most we can offer, hope you're happy to at least see your character pop up in the game' and don't expect to see any plain spirits get upgraded to characters. I'm expecting DLC to be entirely third parties, or some of the notable first party characters / IPs that don't have Spirits (Sylux, Porky, etc.).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A scenario of "We have some people free so why not get a headstart with PP" would be a bit strange.
A early start would explain the stats already in the code but would also mean that spirits are in a even weird place.
If Pirana was DLC then spirits disconfirm. But since it was made alongside base development, it would explain why it wouldnt need a spirit.
I dont have enough fanrules to throw anymore.

I think the issue is they started work on PP way earlier than anything else. So that's why the Spirit might not be in.

He hasn't worked on Joker either. This is why I don't feel Spirits mean anything. PP is a unique situation. And the only case where the Spirit was removed because the character became playable. Anything else will just have a new Spirit for their playable design. Plain and simple. I mean, they're literally JPEGs.

 

[Ovaltine]

Honestly, spirits are in such a weird state that it just... honestly frustrates me. Of all of the notable 'fan favorites' I've seen so far (excluding Banjo), Geno is the only one that's stuck in some kind of odd limbo. He wasn't blatantly deconfirmed, yet he's put in a camp where he might be deconfirmed. We just don't know 100% for certain yet. Sephiroth is in an odd state, too, but his case is regarding music. I don't know if the music rights for more FF7 can be negotiated via a combo of Square's stringency and Uematsu's leave.

I'm sure I speak for a lot of Geno fans (who believe he won't get in this fighter's pass, basically same camp I'm in) when I say, I wish we could just have the bandage torn off already. I've already vocalized this in the Geno thread, but just, aaaaagh it's so frustrating lmao.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The thing to remember with the Joker **** is that the order that characters are revealed in is not the order that characters began development. Sonic in Brawl is a testament to that considering he was one of the last characters worked on but was revealed before the full base roster was. Even looking at Ultimate, Ridley and K Rool seem to be the last ones added to the game if the ordering of the victory fanfares is anything to go by. Joker could have literally been decided upon in October and Then Nintendo could have wanted him to be the VGA reveal as soon as it was approved all while they've had a few other DLC characters already planned and may have started work on.

We simply don't know and we likely never will. I just think it's silly to assume that since Joker was revealed and Sakurai admitted that little work was done on him that it means that no other DLC character has been worked on.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Welcome to the Phoenix Wright thread, where the future looks awesome and miracle happen.

Since we’re talking about Kingdom Hearts’ plot, I played all of the except Coded and 2.8 and I can’t for the life of me explain the plot. Should read up before III, or maybe borrow a friend’s copy of The Story So Far.

 

[Deleted member]

I've given up making any logical sense of KH story, I just enjoy the ride.

That said with all this spirit talk, what are the chances that we get more spirits with the DLC characters? Something that has been bothering me is that we still don't know if Piranha Plant comes with spirits, and checking some of the spirits in the game for some easy spirit battles for PP (ie. Plantman for Megaman, Victreebel or Carnivine for Pokemon) out of curiosity, I just noticed that these ones weren't in as spirits. I dunno that if we get Spirits and battles with the DLC fighters it would mean that spirits actually deconfirm (it would make guessing characters a bit easier so I doubt it).

 

[Nazyrus]

Huh that's funny to see people struggling with KH story. I played them all in the order as they came out and i had no problem whatsoever understanding the plot.
Regarding the spirit thing… as someone already said, it's a 50/50 situation thing, there is no reason to have a solid stance on what it actually means until further reveals.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I don’t struggle with Kingdom Hearts’ story.

That doesn’t mean it isn’t dumb and complicated.

Buyers guide to Kingsom Hearts story.

I assume you will have a PS4.

Get either story so far or 1.5+2.5 and 2.8.

Order to play
1.5
Chain of Memories (GBA is better but RE is serviceable)
2.5
358/2 (watch movie of it, game is kinda dumb to play sometimes)
BBS FM
Coded (honestly kinda supplemental but still a good idea to have just in case)
DDD
0.2
X Back cover

Now let’s say you don’t want to play through all of these.

Mandatory
1
CoM
2
BBS
DDD

Watch through the movies if possible, 358 and X play a role we know. Also you can just watch cutscenes for 0.2.

Coded is dumb and will most likely play some role in the series but I hope not.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I don’t struggle with Kingdom Hearts’ story.

That doesn’t mean it isn’t dumb and complicated.

Buyers guide to Kingsom Hearts story.

I assume you will have a PS4.

Get either story so far or 1.5+2.5 and 2.8.

Order to play
1.5
Chain of Memories (GBA is better but RE is serviceable)
2.5
358/2 (watch movie of it, game is kinda dumb to play sometimes)
BBS FM
Coded (honestly kinda supplemental but still a good idea to have just in case)
DDD
0.2
X Back cover

Now let’s say you don’t want to play through all of these.

Mandatory
1
CoM
2
BBS
DDD

Watch through the movies if possible, 358 and X play a role we know. Also you can just watch cutscenes for 0.2.

Coded is dumb and will most likely play some role in the series but I hope not.

Re:Coded

Spoiler

establishes the Book of Prophecies and "the box" if I recall and also sets up Dream Drop Distance because Mickey realizes all these people are linked to Sora's heart somehow.

 

[Icewolff92]

That said with all this spirit talk, what are the chances that we get more spirits with the DLC characters? Something that has been bothering me is that we still don't know if Piranha Plant comes with spirits, and checking some of the spirits in the game for some easy spirit battles for PP (ie. Plantman for Megaman, Victreebel or Carnivine for Pokemon) out of curiosity, I just noticed that these ones weren't in as spirits. I dunno that if we get Spirits and battles with the DLC fighters it would mean that spirits actually deconfirm (it would make guessing characters a bit easier so I doubt it).

While I certainly think we could get DLC spirits, I really don't see the point. Once someone is done with WoL... how many are really going to care about spirits in the way they are implemented?

 

[shocktarts17]

'this is the most we can offer, hope you're happy to at least see your character pop up in the game

Especially since he literally stated that's the point of Spirits.

I played them all in the order as they came out and i had no problem whatsoever understanding the plot.

I think the problem was that before they started pulling everything together, in order to play the series you had to have like 3 or 4 different consoles which is a big reason I dropped the series because I couldn't play all the games and saw the story going on without me.

 

[GoodGrief741]

While I certainly think we could get DLC spirits, I really don't see the point. Once someone is done with WoL... how many are really going to care about spirits in the way they are implemented?

If they add extra sections to WoL then a lot.

I think a lot of people play Spirit Board too so I guess that’s the obvious one.

 

[Icewolff92]

If they add extra sections to WoL then a lot.

I think a lot of people play Spirit Board too so I guess that’s the obvious one.

Maybe... I was just so massively disappointed by World of Light and spirits in general xD

 

[CardiganBoy]

Spirits and their battles don't seem to be the hardest thing to put in the game so i think it is a yes, otherwise it would be a huge missed opportunity, though i don't see them adding them to WoL just the Spirit Board.

 

[Sigran101]

What's the current story on the leaks? Is the P5 stage and Erdrick leak still being believed? Is there anything else new?

 

[Luigi The President]

What's the current story on the leaks? Is the P5 stage and Erdrick leak still being believed? Is there anything else new?

Right now the Erdrick and P5 leak has taken a big hit as Joker has been stated to not even be in a playable state; which is why his trailer was entirely animated.
If Joker isn't in that state yet, how could Joker AND Erdrick both be in a state to have models, alt costumes, stages, and portions of their moveset shown?

 

[Deleted member]

Right now the Erdrick and P5 leak has taken a big hit as Joker has been stated to not even be in a playable state; which is why his trailer was entirely animated.
If Joker isn't in that state yet, how could Joker AND Erdrick both be in a state to have models, alt costumes, stages, and portions of their moveset shown?

Could just be planning. It doesn't necessarily have to be playable for design documents, artwork, etc to be completed.

 

[Luigi The President]

Could just be planning. It doesn't necessarily have to be playable for design documents, artwork, etc to be completed.

"Jack Frost appears on screen with a skill"
"Slime appears on screen with a skill"
This seems to imply that these two characters appear specifically on screen as part of a moveset, and I can't help but think that if they simply meant a moveset and not a video, they'd have said "Jack Frost appears in their moveset" and not have specifically stated on screen.