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Spirited Away - Game Thread - Game Over!

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
cuz you guys wont use it
if there isnt an urgency to get things done town becomes lax
You have a point about things slowing down a bit, but the extra time also allows for more discussion. Really the worst case scenario is that nothing of value is added and the EOD scramble takes place 24 hours later. I get how that might be frustrating, but from a game perspective that is a neutral outcome. Also, you keep complaining about us not using the extension provided by LaserGuy, so could you tell me what you wish would've happened during the extension?
JFC somi
when are you going to do something besides quote my posts
I'm actually asking questions, trying to work out your thought process to see if my scumread of you is justified, so... as soon as I'm convinced one way or the other. It'd be over faster if I didn't have to pry the answers out of you with pliers.
Well I'm also asking questions that you don't always answer on the first try,
I keep reading their posts but get nothing out of it. Lots of observations but I don't get any idea of where they want to vote and what direction they want to go.
That's kind of a weird accusation against the first person to vote during this phase, but okay.
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
I'm working on a post now, but can everyone request the extension in their journal too, just in case the requests in thread don't count?

Please note the shortened deadline.
It may be extended by 24 hours if five players post the command
##PraytoLaserGuy in their journal.
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
EOD scramble takes place 24 hours later. I get how that might be frustrating, but from a game perspective that is a neutral outcome. Also, you keep complaining about us not using the extension provided by LaserGuy, so could you tell me what you wish would've happened during the extension?
EoD scramble...i have yet to see it here
i would have wanted more people to post, more people to vote because thats all we have, we dont have any roles that are beneficial
I'm actually asking questions, trying to work out your thought process to see if my scumread of you is justified, so... as soon as I'm convinced one way or the other. It'd be over faster if I didn't have to pry the answers out of you with pliers.
Well I'm also asking questions that you don't always answer on the first try,
hey some of your questions i answer right away
some of them are a bit, not to be rude, but a bit tedious to answer, where i have to remember what my mindset was back when i said something
cant really deal that well with these long periods either
That's kind of a weird accusation against the first person to vote during this phase, but okay.
I feel its valid

How do you feel about FF?
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
Scum FF comes into chat and sees a leading wagon with somi, decides to better to townread one of the most scumread people(me) and get rid of what in their eyes are a stronger town player in laserguy, they know what our alignment is

Whats more beneifical for scum to die, me, somi or laserguy? it definetly wasnt me since i was being scum-read so much B1. they can push for me whenever they wanted as i didnt really have a good S1 either

##FrozenFlame
The most beneficial elimination for scum is town. Do you know somitomi is town?

Do you have an actual case on FrozenFlame ore are you just throwing out a vote to see if it gains any traction?


and yes i read ur back and forth with somi and all ur posts regarding somi, are you going to vote for them now or what?
We have hours until deadline why are you always so anxious for everyone to vote?


Could you all give me a run down again of why you voted for laser guy over say anyone else? I think I would have rather pushed Somi or Sabrar if I were around, though Sabrar did improve at the end of day 1 in my eyes.
My first choice for the elimination was somitomi, I was voting for somitomi before the extension.
#360 Frozen votes for LaserGuy (somitomi was leading the votes).
#385 Sabrar votes for LaserGuy.
#404 LaserGuy extends the deadline.
#457 My detailed analysis of somitomi, I'm also suspicious that somitomi is aligned with LaserGuy.
#458 FateShirou votes to LaserGuy (somitomi has 1 vote and LaserGuy has 3).
#474 I switch to ensure an elimination in case there is a tie (4 minutes remaining).


If you had to pick one of the two to lynch, who would you lynch and why?
This question is to Sabrar. He’s sanctioned and can’t post in thread.
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
The most beneficial elimination for scum is town. Do you know somitomi is town?
No i do not know somi is town
Do you have an actual case on FrozenFlame ore are you just throwing out a vote to see if it gains any traction?
lets take a moment
i want to get traction on FF when they have barely posted this period?
No, i want them to come back to thread and post some constructive and answer me
We have hours until deadline why are you always so anxious for everyone to vote?
JEEZ
i wonder why considering the way the last two periods ended
#474 I switch to ensure an elimination in case there is a tie (4 minutes remaining).
#474 I switch to ensure an elimination in case there is a tie (4 minutes remaining).
uh
you switched your vote to put it on laser to avoid a tie
when somi had one voted?
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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Something I thought of and did quick math on.

If we mislynch today and send a scum tomorrow to be sanctioned we are pretty much at a loss. If we can nail scum today though, it leaves us with better odds of sanctioning a townie as it would be 2 scum to 5 townies.

If I did my estimation right if we got both these phases wrong, That leaves 2( if a scum gets sanctioned or votes) scum against 3 or 4 townies. i think I did that math right. Which means we should be careful and in agreement on the best voting option today.

We could mislynch today and still get a win if we sanction a townie tomorrow, but it will be a very dangerous game in that scenario since we could miss sanction someone still.

For today though, I still think Frozen is the best option. We can evaluate Somi, Fate, And Bessie a lot from that by following the other content and strings of posts made within that circle. You all would also get new insight on me based on that flip. Which I don’t think there’s anyone else that could be flipped today and give us that much to work with.
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
EoD scramble...i have yet to see it here
i would have wanted more people to post, more people to vote because thats all we have, we dont have any roles that are beneficial
Well yeah, this game has been oddly calm, I give you that. I still don't think that an extension would be wasted time though.
some of them are a bit, not to be rude, but a bit tedious to answer, where i have to remember what my mindset was back when i said something
Ok, but you do realise how it might be seen as scummy if you say you didn't like "some posts" and then can't say what those posts were or why you disliked them?
How do you feel about FF?
I don't think I've made it a secret, that I'm scumreading Frozen. I would've thought you'd read the thoughts I posted yesterday especially closely after you asked about my top scumreads.
If we mislynch today and send a scum tomorrow to be sanctioned we are pretty much at a loss. If we can nail scum today though, it leaves us with better odds of sanctioning a townie as it would be 2 scum to 5 townies.
If we mess up today, we're going into a Judgement Day and it will fall on Sabrar to make the right call and banish a demon. Then we resume with 3 townies and 2 scum. Sabrar has summarised all possible futures in #587 pretty well.
I'm signing off for the night and we might not have an extension (I did send the command for the record), so good luck. I'm pretty comfortable with my vote where it is given Fate's responses today, but Frozen would be my second choice. Red Ryu's catching up posts have reinforced my townread of the slot, I don't think scum could fake this.
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
Ok, but you do realise how it might be seen as scummy if you say you didn't like "some posts" and then can't say what those posts were or why you disliked them?
cant really describe the feeling now
but when i woke up and read them i DREADED answering them
just seemed like silly questions to me
I don't think I've made it a secret, that I'm scumreading Frozen. I would've thought you'd read the thoughts I posted yesterday especially closely after you asked about my top scumreads.
JFC navigating this forum is a nightmare
If we mess up today, we're going into a Judgement Day and it will fall on Sabrar to make the right call and banish a demon. Then we resume with 3 townies and 2 scum. Sabrar has summarised all possible futures in #587 pretty well.
voting me off means sabrar has to do that
I'm signing off for the night and we might not have an extension (I did send the command for the record), so good luck. I'm pretty comfortable with my vote where it is given Fate's responses today, but Frozen would be my second choice. Red Ryu's catching up posts have reinforced my townread of the slot, I don't think scum could fake this.
i replied as truthfully
I want to see more from ryu on today's analysis, but i do agree they have made some good posts

BTW
i hope yall asked for an extenstion...
i dont want to to be only one around for EoD LOL
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
No i do not know somi is town
Then why did you say Frozen wanted to get rid of a stronger town player in LaserGuy, than somitomi?


uh
you switched your vote to put it on laser to avoid a tie
when somi had one voted?
Yes. Votes at end of day before I switched:

LaserGuy (3) FateShirou, Sabrar, FrozenFlame
FateShirou (2) Swiss, Darkpit
bessie (2) LaserGuy, somitomi
Swiss (1) Z25
somitomi (1) bessie

LaserGuy could have switched to tie the votes.


cant really describe the feeling now
but when i woke up and read them i DREADED answering them
just seemed like silly questions to me
Sometimes people have reasons for asking questions, and you don’t always know someone’s intent.


voting me off means sabrar has to do that
1622426216867.png
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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Mushroom Kingdom
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Then why did you say Frozen wanted to get rid of a stronger town player in LaserGuy, than somitomi?


Yes. Votes at end of day before I switched:

LaserGuy (3) FateShirou, Sabrar, FrozenFlame
FateShirou (2) Swiss, Darkpit
bessie (2) LaserGuy, somitomi
Swiss (1) Z25
somitomi (1) bessie

LaserGuy could have switched to tie the votes.


Sometimes people have reasons for asking questions, and you don’t always know someone’s intent.



View attachment 317204
If your here, do you have a follow up from before? What are your ideas for pies that could work for scum since you said you’d think on it?
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
Then why did you say Frozen wanted to get rid of a stronger town player in LaserGuy, than somitomi?
like i said i have the toery that FF and somi are on the same team, pocket me and banish sabar
or
FF played mad disrespect to somi by calling them not as strong town player as laserguy
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
If your here, do you have a follow up from before? What are your ideas for pies that could work for scum since you said you’d think on it?
Here are all the pairs:
bessie/FateShirou
bessie/FrozenFlame
bessie/HeuristicCheese
bessie/RedRyu
bessie/somitomi
bessie/Z25
FateShirou/FrozenFlame
FateShirou/HeuristicCheese
FateShirou/RedRyu
FateShirou/somitomi
FateShirou/Z25
FrozenFlame/HeuristicCheese
FrozenFlame/RedRyu
FrozenFlame/somitomi
FrozenFlame/Z25
HeuristicCheese/RedRyu
HeuristicCheese/somitomi
HeuristicCheese/Z25
RedRyu/somitomi
RedRyu/Z25
somitomi/Z25

I currently think these are the most likely pairs:
FateShirou/FrozenFlame
FrozenFlame/somitomi
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
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Messages
27,988
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
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Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
Here are all the pairs:
bessie/FateShirou
bessie/FrozenFlame
bessie/HeuristicCheese
bessie/RedRyu
bessie/somitomi
bessie/Z25
FateShirou/FrozenFlame
FateShirou/HeuristicCheese
FateShirou/RedRyu
FateShirou/somitomi
FateShirou/Z25
FrozenFlame/HeuristicCheese
FrozenFlame/RedRyu
FrozenFlame/somitomi
FrozenFlame/Z25
HeuristicCheese/RedRyu
HeuristicCheese/somitomi
HeuristicCheese/Z25
RedRyu/somitomi
RedRyu/Z25
somitomi/Z25

I currently think these are the most likely pairs:
FateShirou/FrozenFlame
FrozenFlame/somitomi
This covers a lot of the pairs, but what is some of the logic behind some of this possible pairs?

What’s something that sticks out to you between a few of this choices that makes you think they could be teams.
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
Oh, that’s just a list of every pair combination. If anyone else wants to work on pairs, they can just copy the list.

I hadn’t been doing my analysis for pairs so I need to reread with pairs in mind, and think about the game differently. Like, FrozenFlame is number three on my list, but I find that he is in both my most likely pairs so far.
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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Messages
27,988
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
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Zoroarkrules571
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0533-5240-0946
Oh, that’s just a list of every pair combination. If anyone else wants to work on pairs, they can just copy the list.

I hadn’t been doing my analysis for pairs so I need to reread with pairs in mind, and think about the game differently. Like, FrozenFlame is number three on my list, but I find that he is in both my most likely pairs so far.
Oh, I thought you meant you would examine pairs when you mentioned it earlier rather then listing combinations. Still if you get a chance I would like to hear about some top pairs you might have in mind.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
alright I'm finally back, sorry everyone, I droppped a praytolaserguy in my journal and it looks like most of us did so we got a much needed extension, clutch

Lynches feel way bigger this game due to the consequences of mislynches. It’s a very interesting concept.
this is incredibly vacuous, what are you even saying? lynches do matter more in this game for a few obvious reasons but it really feels like you're just trying to parrot sabrar here to mirror a town slot and seem like you're contributing

Better head of hydra here. Screen broke last night and couldn't be on for deadline. :'( (Any recommendations on what type of phone I should buy next?)
What I was thinking was looking at the activity level of each player between phases.
The first number is the total number of posts made to date. The second number is the number of posts made after the first phase. Percentage is the percentage of posts made made after first phase.

bessie 22 posts - 7 posts 32%
Frozen Flame 64 posts - 14 posts 22%
Somitomi 36 posts - 9 posts 25%
Z25 55 posts - 35 posts 64%
Darkpit 45 posts - 2 posts 4%
FateShirou 92 posts - 19 posts 21%
Swiss/Hydra 92 posts - 7 posts 8%

Z25 was the only truly active player during phase 2 and I read that as town. Darkpit being gone I read as more NAI. Bessie, while still having the lowest posts over all, that's more due to her posting style. She comparatively was the second most active player and I read that as being consistent and town. Frozen, somi, and Fate were all in the same realm. I'm not familiar with Frozen's town so much. Can anyone give any comment on Frozen playing so aggro defensive as scum? Somi still sounds so typical somi that sounds kinda scummy and ends with a mislynch. Fate I was really expecting to hear more from during the last phase with such a high post count. Fate ended up having the lowest percent of comparative posts excluding the players on the inactive side, which I find rather suspicious. I'm going to make an assumption that in this playstyle of game in seems more advantageous for mafia to wait a bit more than the norm to vote during sanction phase.
ok these are interesting stats and all, but what exactly were you looking for? not trying to talk **** but like it looks more like scum busy work to seem helpful when people do stuff like this but then don't actually have a real thesis and just leave the data open for speculation. would have been much more willing to believe this is a legitimate town effort to solve if you actually had come up with some kind of thesis and an analysis of the data within that framework because then it helps me glean how you're trying to solve, aka do you have genuine motivation. this doesn't give me that, and without a compelling thesis this is really just activity meta argument which, as big of a fan I am of eliming lurkers, this just isn't the right format for traditional activity analysis so it feels very NAI overall

your take here on somi is painfully accurate and I'm having flashbacks to riding somi's consistent meta to avoid his mislynch as his mate as well as being town like the position I'm in now and like just getting this meh to scum lean vibes from the slot but also knowing somi is almost always miselim bait

your take on fate feels shadethrowy, for essentially the same reason as my main response above, you didn't really articulate a clear thesis and the attack feels opportunistic, im also probably biased tho because I hard townread that slot, like cmon look at this ****:

top 3 scum
lets go
thats all this dude spams, there is no ****ing way a scum slot could just be this blissfully ignorant of how repetitive and generally unhelpful spamming this at every slot is. additionally, the fact that he just keeps spamming this over and over just makes him more likely to annoying slots and draw their ire. but he doesn't care, he's just plowing ahead trying to farm reads through what seems to be the only method he has. I just dont think scum!Fate smashes his head against the wall like this over and over

Not Vote
Swiss
Bessie
Z25

Vote
Somitomi
Darkpit
FrozenFlame

The people who could flip are somi and z25
lmao bro why do you have me at the bottom of your readlist but then say you don't want my flip? you wild, and also wack for having me there =/ but yeah this is confusing I curious why I'm omitted relative to z25 and somi?

very interested in you expanding your take on somi because you aren't tainted/dulled in being exposed previously to somi's meta. are you seeing somi connections to other slots that his flip would help you read?

I’m curious why my slot claimed his character already but it is what it is. I would have held onto that longer

I generally take people not reading the rules as being town lean but too many people did this, so not sure on that.

Claims only matter with trying to figure out intent behind actions since everything is random.
Sets got called but I am on page 3 so far, will check later but on mobile nothing stood out to me super big read and feel wise.
would've instantly been suss of you for the first line if you hadn't in the same post said you were only on page 3 lmao

I dislike Sabrar and Somi because lots of text but zero impression in hindsight.

that generally gives me bad vibes whenI recall people mostly a bit but it being unmemorable to me.
can you point to a post of sabrar's and somi's each that are comparable in this regard? because I didn't get that feeling in early game, sab and somi did not feel similar
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Yeah, that's partly why I suggested extending the phase. I generally think it would be worthwile given the low activity and Rey Ryu having to catch up.
I was hoping to review the Z25/Frozen fight yesterday, but the garage door fixing took longer than I thought it would, so I can only rely on my initial impression, that it left both sides a bit grimy. I think Z25 is onto something about Frozen's lack of progression, but the case got a bit overblown by taking almost every single post Frozen made and interpreting them in the most damning way possible. Frozen has pointed this out and I'm inclined to think Frozen wouldn't buddy his actual mate like Z25 is suggesting, although there seems to be a weird connection between Frozen and Fate that I can't really place. Overall, I'm leaning towards agreeing with Z25, reinforced slightly by my general townread of the slot.
Coming back to the Fate-Frozen connection for a moment, I don't know if they're really mates and my gut says no, but I do think there's a good chance one of them is a demon here.
wow this is an incredibly reasonable take on me v. Z25, I don't feel an ounce of ulterior motive here, town+ for somi
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
thats all this dude spams, there is no ****ing way a scum slot could just be this blissfully ignorant of how repetitive and generally unhelpful spamming this at every slot is. additionally, the fact that he just keeps spamming this over and over just makes him more likely to annoying slots and draw their ire. but he doesn't care, he's just plowing ahead trying to farm reads through what seems to be the only method he has. I just dont think scum!Fate smashes his head against the wall like this over and over
this is how i play mafia, i abosultely hate doing long posts because well people dont read it, shorter posts and repeatly asking people for takes are what i love doing. in a game like this, constant bombardment is what im doing
you wild, and also wack for having me there =/ but yeah this is confusing I curious why I'm omitted relative to z25 and somi?
thats because I dont expect to have u move on my no vote list for today
I see you as scum thats trying to pocket me D1 and you saved somi from a potential lynch

can you comment on bessie's read on you(post 660)

and give me ur top 3 scum
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
tinfoil theory

Scum FF comes into chat and sees a leading wagon with somi, decides to better to townread one of the most scumread people(me) and get rid of what in their eyes are a stronger town player in laserguy, they know what our alignment is

Whats more beneifical for scum to die, me, somi or laserguy? it definetly wasnt me since i was being scum-read so much B1. they can push for me whenever they wanted as i didnt really have a good S1 either
what you're forgetting is that this strategy would be **** for me as scum because of all the flack I would and did get for being one of the leading votes on laser. If I was scum and knew that both somi and laser would flip town, and somi were an easy miselim that everyone was going for that I would quietly just hop on and get away with miseliming for free, why would I put myself in a position to be scrutinized for causing a switch to a different town slot that I would look just as bad for being on, if not worse for being the spear head? I'd be increasing the ire my slot draws for no real benefit when I'd be getting a free mis elim either way

Z25 and FF are playing damn good theater if they are on the same team, even me versus Bessie when we were mates had some holes in it last time I played as scum.
if Z25 is scum we are not ****ing mates lmao that is not how I bus at all

hate that you brought up you and bessie theatre, bro you LITERALLY ****ING DAYKILLED HER THAT IS PURE DISTILLED PARANOIA FUEL why would you do this to me, it's like you're taunting me because I didn't like darkpits slot before you replaced and if yall are mates and you're pulling this **** again imma lose it

I don't think I've made it a secret, that I'm scumreading Frozen. I would've thought you'd read the thoughts I posted yesterday especially closely after you asked about my top scumreads.
ewwww this literally feels like you asking someone to give you a reason to switch to me, gross

like i said i have the toery that FF and somi are on the same team, pocket me and banish sabar
or
FF played mad disrespect to somi by calling them not as strong town player as laserguy
dude what does any of this mean

Im not trying to pocket you and if I were I suck at it because you clearly want me flipped lmao, idk where this paranoia is coming from like bro I'm not even trying to tell you to do anything, Im legit just town reading you because its obvious by your play and I don't have bad past meta experience with you tainting my judgment

I don't ever remember saying anything like somi is a better town player than laser? why are you inventing drama?

why are you town meta reading maven? Yes it’s atypical play but I never read stuff like this as town reading meta wise.
it was literally as simple as maven has joined, done essentially nothing in the game other than a few small, somewhat cryptic/opaque style posts, and then just fallen off the face of the earth as town in the last few games he's joined. seeing that pattern replicate early just made me kneejerk to "lol he's town again" but upon reflection it was stupid to think that and I should have realize its truly NAI for him, he just happened to be town everytime in those past games

Ok. Gut reads list without a reread, up to the post I’m quoting.

Woof
Darkpit/Red Ryu
HeuristicCheese
Z25
Frozen Flame
FateShirou
somitomi
Grr
is it weird to anyone else that we get a "gut" readlist in this post but then like a fully fleshed out reads list in #660 like two posts later? what was the point of this?


FINALLY someone gets it.
View attachment 317037
ok this is literally just more paranoia fuel, instead of open bussing this time now yall just gonna open buddy????? =/

Interesting. I have a suspicion that this response is because you do not like your placement on my list. How about you come up with some reasons you think I am scum, instead of just throwing out an accusation?

And, um, is my placement of somitomi on the bottom of my list like a total complete surprise to you? You really never saw any indication in my content that I might be scum reading him? Or to a lesser extent you? Have you even read anything I have posted or are you ignoring all my content because you don't like my style?
funny way to say "Fate that OMGUS" lmao
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
27,988
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
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Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
alright I'm finally back, sorry everyone, I droppped a praytolaserguy in my journal and it looks like most of us did so we got a much needed extension, clutch

this is incredibly vacuous, what are you even saying? lynches do matter more in this game for a few obvious reasons but it really feels like you're just trying to parrot sabrar here to mirror a town slot and seem like you're contributing

ok these are interesting stats and all, but what exactly were you looking for? not trying to talk **** but like it looks more like scum busy work to seem helpful when people do stuff like this but then don't actually have a real thesis and just leave the data open for speculation. would have been much more willing to believe this is a legitimate town effort to solve if you actually had come up with some kind of thesis and an analysis of the data within that framework because then it helps me glean how you're trying to solve, aka do you have genuine motivation. this doesn't give me that, and without a compelling thesis this is really just activity meta argument which, as big of a fan I am of eliming lurkers, this just isn't the right format for traditional activity analysis so it feels very NAI overall

your take here on somi is painfully accurate and I'm having flashbacks to riding somi's consistent meta to avoid his mislynch as his mate as well as being town like the position I'm in now and like just getting this meh to scum lean vibes from the slot but also knowing somi is almost always miselim bait

your take on fate feels shadethrowy, for essentially the same reason as my main response above, you didn't really articulate a clear thesis and the attack feels opportunistic, im also probably biased tho because I hard townread that slot, like cmon look at this ****:

thats all this dude spams, there is no ****ing way a scum slot could just be this blissfully ignorant of how repetitive and generally unhelpful spamming this at every slot is. additionally, the fact that he just keeps spamming this over and over just makes him more likely to annoying slots and draw their ire. but he doesn't care, he's just plowing ahead trying to farm reads through what seems to be the only method he has. I just dont think scum!Fate smashes his head against the wall like this over and over

lmao bro why do you have me at the bottom of your readlist but then say you don't want my flip? you wild, and also wack for having me there =/ but yeah this is confusing I curious why I'm omitted relative to z25 and somi?

very interested in you expanding your take on somi because you aren't tainted/dulled in being exposed previously to somi's meta. are you seeing somi connections to other slots that his flip would help you read?

would've instantly been suss of you for the first line if you hadn't in the same post said you were only on page 3 lmao

can you point to a post of sabrar's and somi's each that are comparable in this regard? because I didn't get that feeling in early game, sab and somi did not feel similar
I’ve already stated it multiple times, but again,

My post there has nothing to do with any slot, hell it kind of doesn’t even relate to the game fully.

My point was lynches this game give me way more anxiety and pause because it’s scums goal to basically get sanctioned which is just a different from of lynches this game. That makes the decision to sanction each time a bit scary and despite how strong I could feel about a slot( see Sabrar), doesn’t mean I don’t have doubts when going to sanction. But at the end of the day I’m trusting my gut and basing my own thoughts on how the game progresses from, and if I end up wrong then I can’t change it really.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Albuquerque, NM
this is how i play mafia, i abosultely hate doing long posts because well people dont read it, shorter posts and repeatly asking people for takes are what i love doing. in a game like this, constant bombardment is what im doing

thats because I dont expect to have u move on my no vote list for today
I see you as scum thats trying to pocket me D1 and you saved somi from a potential lynch

can you comment on bessie's read on you(post 660)

and give me ur top 3 scum
your first line of response is exactly my point, you very much seem to just be "doing what you do" in a very uninhibited way. like you very clearly do not give a **** about how others perceive and react to your play. I think this comes from an isolated frame, hence a townie frame, hence my townread. I'm not pocketing you, if I was trying to do that I'd be blowing smoke up your ass about how good your ideas are and how we should all listen to you. I'm not doing that because I have no interest in manipulating you, I'm literally just calling you town because that's my read of your slot and I want that communicated clearly to the other townies out there

where is this idea that I was trying to save somi from a miselim coming from? like I seriously have no clue where you are getting this, I did not in any way stick my neck out for somi lmao

Frozen Flame
Frozen starts D1 with aggressive content and early reads, I like that with his suspicions he gives reasons, and I feel the early aggression moved the game forward. Frozen questions somitomi on false claiming (similar to my early questioning). Most of Frozen’s D1 suspicion is of Swiss, but he is also questioning other players. There is some interesting interaction between Frozen and Darkpit and I’m not yet sure what to make of it (review page 5-6 after either flips). Frozen has extended periods where he is absent for a couple days (but so do others). Frozen returns near deadline #360 and switches his vote from Swiss to LaserGuy (it appears he is still scum reading both). FateShirou follows this vote and Frozen is hard townreading FateShirou. Frozen is thinking about the sanction and judgement mechanics early in the game which I like. D2 re Frozen’s reply to Z25 starting at #529, I find his overall reaction interesting. I believe Frozen makes some valid points like his response to the accusation of throwing shade in early game, but I think he weakens his argument when he accuses Z25 of doing the same thing. I feel Frozen’s response to Z25 in #542 is an overreaction; Z25 did have some valid points. In retrospect, I find the D1 vote switch to LaserGuy suspicious because FateShirou and somitomi appeared to be more likely eliminations (even though Sabrar and I both had expressed suspicion of LaserGuy) so I think this will need to be looked at more closely after any of these players flip.
her take on my early game strat is correct, I was trying to energize the game early because frankly its more fun that way and helps get people out of RVS type **** quicker. she accurately identified where my early focus was, accurate description of my activity, accurate description of my read on you, my takes on how the setup affects how town should strategize this game, fair enough take on me vs. Z25

tbh this is really what I find hardest about reading bessie, she's so damn organized/thorough. like the only time I was even able to remotely scum read her with any confidence was when she was scum with RR and had like a tantrum-esque moment which in retrospect was meant to empower their scum theatre. this is why I found it weird that she did a "gut read" post but then gave us this very thorough breakdown of her reads right after. like everything she said about me is more just descriptive than anything and like that doesn't help me read her if that makes sense. sabrar was pushing me to re-read her though and I think he may have been trying to tell me something without tipping her off that maybe he was scum reading her more than he was letting on so as not to spook scum!bessie?
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Current reads in order from towniest to scummiest:

FateShirou
Somitomi
bessie
HeuristicCheese
Red Ryu (this is mostly based on my reads of darkpits play, still processing RR's content)
Z25
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I’ve already stated it multiple times, but again,

My post there has nothing to do with any slot, hell it kind of doesn’t even relate to the game fully.

My point was lynches this game give me way more anxiety and pause because it’s scums goal to basically get sanctioned which is just a different from of lynches this game. That makes the decision to sanction each time a bit scary and despite how strong I could feel about a slot( see Sabrar), doesn’t mean I don’t have doubts when going to sanction. But at the end of the day I’m trusting my gut and basing my own thoughts on how the game progresses from, and if I end up wrong then I can’t change it really.
why are you talking about how much anxiety the sanction phase gives you when we're in banish phase? and I also don't follow why you view it in such an an asymmetric sense, like both banish and sanction are equally important because we need to banish scum to win and avoid sanctioning them because they only need to get two demons sanctioned to win. screwing up banishing is bad too though because judgment is a VERY swingy mechanic and technically the scum can win without even getting a single one of their members sanctioned if we **** up our judgment day shot. so if we keep banishing townies we're giving the scum free chances at a 50/50 shot for the win

again like this just comes off as you poorly trying to emulate town anxiety when you really haven't thought much about the mechanics at all

## Z25
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I will be around for deadline, I have some catchup work I have to do thanks to being on-call putting me behind last week but I will be around trying to do some re-reading in between work projects. ping me if you need me
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
Joined
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Messages
27,988
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Mushroom Kingdom
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Zoroarkrules571
3DS FC
0533-5240-0946
why are you talking about how much anxiety the sanction phase gives you when we're in banish phase? and I also don't follow why you view it in such an an asymmetric sense, like both banish and sanction are equally important because we need to banish scum to win and avoid sanctioning them because they only need to get two demons sanctioned to win. screwing up banishing is bad too though because judgment is a VERY swingy mechanic and technically the scum can win without even getting a single one of their members sanctioned if we **** up our judgment day shot. so if we keep banishing townies we're giving the scum free chances at a 50/50 shot for the win

again like this just comes off as you poorly trying to emulate town anxiety when you really haven't thought much about the mechanics at all

## Z25
Because like I just told you, I was literally asked multiple over times over these past two phases about that post, leading to me reiterating what I meant. Also I literally posted it after the sanction phase because it was my initial reaction on the Sabrar flip. Hell I literally told Sabrar I hope he can help us when I voted for them because I wasn’t fully committing to a town read there when we had almost no activity or discussion to make me feel better.

You can say I’m emulating town anxiety all you want but it doesn’t change the fact you’ve literally been cherry picking my content and taking posts way more out of context then anything I did with yours.

But hey you do you. I would literally never fake town anxiety because that honestly doesn’t matter to me.Someone could say exactly what I said here and I wouldn’t change my opinion on them. It’s literal fluff and the fact your using that to try and push a lynch is almost as bad as you starting the laser wagon.

If you really want to see my scum play then here you go:





Feel free to read those and then see if you could really say my play is scum here. If you want town plays then there’s plenty to read. Just click any other game I’m in.

Also sure you could make an argument my play is different from those, but I haven’t played mafia in months, and I haven’t even given a thought to it tbh. I swapped in and thus have used the already outside perspective I would have to solve to the best of my ability and offer my own honest thoughts because there’s nothing for me to hide or lie about this game. Something I think you could see a difference with in my scum game examples.
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
JFC navigating this forum is a nightmare
I thought you'd remember (or take notes about) things that are important enough for you to ask about them.
ok these are interesting stats and all, but what exactly were you looking for? not trying to talk **** but like it looks more like scum busy work to seem helpful when people do stuff like this but then don't actually have a real thesis and just leave the data open for speculation. would have been much more willing to believe this is a legitimate town effort to solve if you actually had come up with some kind of thesis and an analysis of the data within that framework because then it helps me glean how you're trying to solve, aka do you have genuine motivation. this doesn't give me that, and without a compelling thesis this is really just activity meta argument which, as big of a fan I am of eliming lurkers, this just isn't the right format for traditional activity analysis so it feels very NAI overall
I don't really see what HeurySwiss was looking for here either, particularly because I'm not a fan of the lurker=scum meta argument for rather obvious reasons. People apparently dropping off the face of the planet in particular is NAI in my experience. Anyway, compiling these stats seems like a fairly time-consuming task and I don't think scum would do that sort of busywork and then go nowhere with it. The lack of framework is weird, but there seems to be no agenda behind this either. They mildly sus Fate at the end, but I don't think it'd be worth all this trouble to push someone half the players are already scumreading.
is it weird to anyone else that we get a "gut" readlist in this post but then like a fully fleshed out reads list in #660 like two posts later? what was the point of this?
It may be two posts later, but that's just due to low activity, more than 9 hours passed between those posts.
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
Oh, I thought you meant you would examine pairs when you mentioned it earlier rather then listing combinations. Still if you get a chance I would like to hear about some top pairs you might have in mind.
That was the intent, to arrange all the pairs from most likely to least likely. But thinking about pairs is looking at the game differently so it wasn’t like just taking my stand alone reads and making pairs. For pairs I have something like:

FateShirou/FrozenFlame (end of D1 interaction, voted with FF)
FrozenFlame/somitomi (D1 somi was an elim candidate when FF voted for Laser)
...
[All the other pairs go here]
...
FrozenFlame/Z25 (D2 interactions)


this is how i play mafia, i abosultely hate doing long posts because well people dont read it, shorter posts and repeatly asking people for takes are what i love doing. in a game like this, constant bombardment is what im doing
If the reason you don’t do long posts is because you think people won’t read them, I think you’re wrong because I think people here will read them. And while I think everyone should play the way they want, if you don’t do any analysis or to back up your reads it’s going to look suspicious, like you’re not thinking about the game and you’re just looking for an easy elimination.


is it weird to anyone else that we get a "gut" readlist in this post but then like a fully fleshed out reads list in #660 like two posts later? what was the point of this?
Look at the time stamps. The list was Saturday afternoon for me, before reread. The analysis was at almost midnight my time, after reread and thinking about it for most of the day. [note somitomi pointed this out too]


ok this is literally just more paranoia fuel, instead of open bussing this time now yall just gonna open buddy????? =/
1622497546524.png
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
If the reason you don’t do long posts is because you think people won’t read them, I think you’re wrong because I think people here will read them. And while I think everyone should play the way they want, if you don’t do any analysis or to back up your reads it’s going to look suspicious, like you’re not thinking about the game and you’re just looking for an easy elimination.
its people DO NOT read long posts
i dont want to put the effort in writing up a post on word, and then have everyone ignore it
its deflating and honestly i rather play like this
FateShirou/FrozenFlame (end of D1 interaction, voted with FF)
no scum would come bat for me
think about it
if you were on a scum team would you come defend me or bus me?
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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Messages
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Location
Mushroom Kingdom
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That was the intent, to arrange all the pairs from most likely to least likely. But thinking about pairs is looking at the game differently so it wasn’t like just taking my stand alone reads and making pairs. For pairs I have something like:

FateShirou/FrozenFlame (end of D1 interaction, voted with FF)
FrozenFlame/somitomi (D1 somi was an elim candidate when FF voted for Laser)
...
[All the other pairs go here]
...
FrozenFlame/Z25 (D2 interactions)


If the reason you don’t do long posts is because you think people won’t read them, I think you’re wrong because I think people here will read them. And while I think everyone should play the way they want, if you don’t do any analysis or to back up your reads it’s going to look suspicious, like you’re not thinking about the game and you’re just looking for an easy elimination.


Look at the time stamps. The list was Saturday afternoon for me, before reread. The analysis was at almost midnight my time, after reread and thinking about it for most of the day. [note somitomi pointed this out too]


View attachment 317270
So you think fate and ff can be team mates? They are playing very adjacent to each other so I’d be surprised if they were .

Especially since FF has made it clear they are not really reading( or they are leaving out details because they are scum and trying to paint a narrative.)

Hence why they walked around my points when they made their last posts and how theymissed the very obvious 9 hour difference in posts. It feels like they either are t paying attention through all lenses of the game or they are trying to make other slots look bad. It reminds me exactly of how they set up for laser to be lynched low key. Assuming in this game, FF s scum which I still think is likely.
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
FateShirou | 1/4 | somitomi
FrozenFlame | 1/4 | Fateshirou
somitomi | 1/4 | Red Ryu
Z25 | 1/4 | FrozenFlame
It's getting kind of weird that we're getting close to (extended) deadline and half of the people haven't voted yet. Out of the not voting crowd I actually have no idea where HeurySwiss's minds are.

Anyway, I've been thinking about bessie's list of possible scum pairings, eliminating teams that seem unlikely based on interactions between those slots or my townread of Red Ryu/DarkPit:
bessie/FrozenFlame
bessie/Z25
FateShirou/Z25
I'm in a similar boat as bessie, each of the two people I consider most likely to be scum appears in only one of the remaining teams. There's also no full trio in there that makes sense according to the criteria I used. I don't know what to make of this, but it's making me question my sanity and I should be sleeping already.
 

bessie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
422
its people DO NOT read long posts
i dont want to put the effort in writing up a post on word, and then have everyone ignore it
its deflating and honestly i rather play like this

no scum would come bat for me
think about it
if you were on a scum team would you come defend me or bus me?
I would read your posts. But play in whatever style gives you enjoyment. I’m suspicious of your content in this post not for your style, but because I’m always suspicious of LAMIST type posts.


So you think fate and ff can be team mates? They are playing very adjacent to each other so I’d be surprised if they were .
Yes I do think they can be teammates. Read end of D1, at post #327 FateShirou is leading the votals. The vote moves from FateShirou to somitomi, and ends on LaserGuy.


FateShirou FateShirou can you respond to FrozenFlame’s #703 and #705?


My voting pool is FateShirou, somitomi, and FrozenFlame.
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
what you're forgetting is that this strategy would be **** for me as scum because of all the flack I would and did get for being one of the leading votes on laser. If I was scum and knew that both somi and laser would flip town, and somi were an easy miselim that everyone was going for that I would quietly just hop on and get away with miseliming for free, why would I put myself in a position to be scrutinized for causing a switch to a different town slot that I would look just as bad for being on, if not worse for being the spear head? I'd be increasing the ire my slot draws for no real benefit when I'd be getting a free mis elim either way
?
in this scenario somi will flip scum?
what flack have u gotten for leading on laser? huh?
how many votes do you have on you
Im not trying to pocket you and if I were I suck at it because you clearly want me flipped lmao, idk where this paranoia is coming from like bro I'm not even trying to tell you to do anything, Im legit just town reading you because its obvious by your play and I don't have bad past meta experience with you tainting my judgment
i dont trust people who town read me
but seriously FF
WHO ARE YOUR SCUM READS
your first line of response is exactly my point, you very much seem to just be "doing what you do" in a very uninhibited way. like you very clearly do not give a **** about how others perceive and react to your play. I think this comes from an isolated frame, hence a townie frame, hence my townread. I'm not pocketing you, if I was trying to do that I'd be blowing smoke up your ass about how good your ideas are and how we should all listen to you. I'm not doing that because I have no interest in manipulating you, I'm literally just calling you town because that's my read of your slot and I want that communicated clearly to the other townies out there
my ideas are never good FF
it felt like u were agreeing with me back on day with my laser reads
can you respond to FrozenFlame’s #703 and #705?
i thought i did this but i responded again
 

FateShirou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2021
Messages
128
Yes I do think they can be teammates. Read end of D1, at post #327 FateShirou is leading the votals. The vote moves from FateShirou to somitomi, and ends on LaserGuy.
yall should be looking at the people who unvoted for me
laserguy? flipped town
sabrar? flipped town
darkpit slot?
somi?

the only one who stayed on me from those 4 were darkpit slot, and swiss slot
 
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