Soul Calibur IV

[xX Boezy Xx]

Starkiller is low, maybe mid tier. I use him nonetheless though.

 

[The Executive]

I'm still a Cassandra/Astaroth main circa SC2. (dropped Nightmare after SC2 when they split him) Vader/Starkiller are nice, but you can't use 'em online.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i hear cassandra is top.

what makes her broken (if this is accurate)?

has her pressure changed at all since sc3?

what about pokes?

is 236b still ridiculously stupidly good?

also my friend tells me sophie is also top and is better than cass.

is this true? and if she is, what makes her?

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

i hear cassandra is top.

what makes her broken (if this is accurate)?

has her pressure changed at all since sc3?

what about pokes?

is 236b still ridiculously stupidly good?

also my friend tells me sophie is also top and is better than cass.

is this true? and if she is, what makes her?

Yes, 236 B is still one of the (if not, THE) best punishing move(s) in the game. As for Cassandra, I heard she was nerfed a bit in the patch, losing some of her combo potential, but she's still up there because she also has crazy good punishers and nice mix-ups. Sophie also lost some damage on many moves after the patch, but like Cassie, she's still one of the best.

I'm not sure who the better is between them. I' sure if you ask someone who mains them they'll now.

 

[The Executive]

I hear Sophie is still the better one but it's much, much closer now.

 

[SonicLucario]

What's a good site to go to for this game?

 

[ExMachina]

SonicLucario:

http://www.8wayrun.com/index.php
http://caliburforum.com/forums/index.php

 

[Oracle]

How good is nightmare?

 

[ExMachina]

Nightmare is solidly mid. He got a bit of a nerf after the patch (they removed this ridiculous setup that guaranteed a back throw) but still has an insane wall game, good RO options, crazy okizeme (wakeup game), and the ability to punish from range. His main issues are safety/speed, which gets him into a lot of trouble with chars like the Alexandra sisters.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

How's Cassandra Top? I mean, she's good, but she definitely isn't Top-Tier especially after the 1.03 patch, I'd vouch that at this point, Setsuka is a far better character then her, due her damaging options being safe and having excellent punishers to go along with it.

However, as of now, Tier's shouldn't really matter at this point, until Namco finally stops patching the game, because if they continue to do so, the Tier's will keep on switching, and I'm hoping that within either the next one or two patches, we'll not need one any longer, continued nerfing for the sake of "balance" is not good either.

Just plainly put, so far, at this point, most of the SCIV characters can be competitive, which ='s Good.

 

[ExMachina]

Most people aren't arguing that Cass is top, but they agree that she's probably high mid. Setsuka's a mystery still... I do think she has the potential to be up there, but so far she hasn't been placing in any significant tourneys.

But yeah, SC4 is pretty balanced right now... which is great. We're seeing a lot of variety in tourney results. And it can only get better with Namco actively patching it.

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

Apparently, on October 23, Vader and Yoda will be released for Xbox and PS3, respectively. I think Vader costs about 400 microsoft points, I'm not sure about Yoda though.

Well, the waits finally over....

EDIT: This may only be for Japan...

 

[SonicLucario]

Where did you hear that?:

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

Here

Spoiler

10vaders

 

[cheap_josh]

That's cool, I've always wanted to try Vader.
Also, imo Setsuka is crap... she's too close-range of a fighter methinks.

 

[Lord Viper]

lol, I knew this would come sooner or later.... but I still don't have no internet at my house, poor me. D:

 

[ExMachina]

I don't want Yoda in my SC4 so... not spending the money on this. Waste of $5.

And I won a (small) local SC4 tourney. =] Used Kilik for most of it till my friend's Mitsu forced me to go Cass. >.< Crouching against Cass = too delicious, 2B+Gs all day. :D

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

And I won a (small) local SC4 tourney. =] Used Kilik for most of it till my friend's Mitsu forced me to go Cass. >.< Crouching against Cass = too delicious, 2B+Gs all day. :D

Nice. Congrats on that.

As for Vader, I love him to death but he's just not all that I thought he would be. I knew he was low tier, but I'm not a fan of his fighting style either. Hell, I think the Apprentice is more fun to play as.

Oh well...

 

[Lord Viper]

Hell, I think the Apprentice is more fun to play as.

WHAT!?!?! What about the force choke? That move is tons of fun.

 

[Delta_BP26]

I was actually very disappointed with this game. The pace is very slow. SC2 is infinitely better. Also, Create a Character? Not very original... I honestly didn't like the game when I played it for a few hours at my cousin's house. I eventually just settled to rolling my face all over the controller with Maxi.

 

[SonicLucario]

I think I'll use all the Star Wars characters because I have the most fun with them

I'm trying to get into the community but it's a little hard to understand some things. Y'know?

 

[ranmaru]

I really like Tira, I love her moody side. Its so awesome. ;3

 

[ExMachina]

I think I'll use all the Star Wars characters because I have the most fun with them

I'm trying to get into the community but it's a little hard to understand some things. Y'know?

Like what things? SC has a pretty friendly community and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

I actually enjoy Apprentice a lot myself, there's just something about flipping around, his Hover stance, and lightsaber slinging/lightning throwing that's fun. Plus, you can avoid throws 100% with him. :O If not for lack of good lows and hitbox issues, I feel like he'd be pretty strong.

Delta: It feels slow simply because buffering is tighter. If you actually give the game a chance and play with decent players, it's the best SC game since 2 and many players would argue that it's in fact better.

Boezy: Thanks. :D

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

But yeah, SC4 is pretty balanced right now... which is great. We're seeing a lot of variety in tourney results. And it can only get better with Namco actively patching it.

That bolded part is what I'm most afraid of...because, how far, is too far, when it comes to patching seriously. I feel that Namco should stop once the game has been set to a point in which characters and compete effectively well, without huge differences between a Top to Middle-Tier or even Low-Mid.

At this point, it should suffice enough, simply because too much toning down is going to just simply water the gameplay down. For this is what we saw with Tekken 5, to where things for characters that didn't need to get nerfed...simply got nerfed...because they where the next "best" thing after the first nerf.

I would hope that Namco stops at one point and just simply lets players play it out. To me, once the Top-Tiers aren't heavily overpowered to where they don't grip the rest of the cast with an Iron Fist, that's when Namco should stop and let it go to see how it is.

Imo, continually patching is never good either, however I'm sure they will stop at one point.

 

[jiggz kirbz]

Anyone have a 360 if you send me a private msg ill give you my gamertag and we could play soulcalibur IV.

Main-Ivy.
Seconday.Nightmare.

 

[Kyuubi9t]

hey i love soul calibur but never played this game kuz all i have is wii. quick question... you all are talking about "after the patch" and all that... HOW do you deal with the game that you play just changing itself!?? Id be pissed if my main all of a sudden did less damage, or lost a certain combo!?

 

[SonicLucario]

I'm just having a hard time understanding a lot of terms people use.

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

I use Sophitia, Cassandra, Talim, Amy and my main is Ashlotte.

 

[Xeo™]

I'm just having a hard time understanding a lot of terms people use.

Yea same lol. And I rather stick to Brawl.

 

[RaynEX]

One thing about this game. Everyone got a huuuge bust upgrade. I played SCII competitively...but SCIV...

dude I can't even focus on the fighting anymore. baha

 

[chaos_Leader]

I like playing this game every now and then.
Cervantes, Siegfried, and I'm just getting into Yoshimitsu, such a crazy crazy nut-job of a character.

 

[BloodyPuppy]

I like watching SC4, but I'm terrible at the series. I just feel like I don't have any mobility. It's a blast to watch high level play though. Casual play just turns into a spamfest though...

 

[SpitFire15]

^SC4 is much more fun to play than to watch, offline at least.

I haven't set up the internet connection on my PS3 yet because I haven't felt like going through the pain of playing around with my computer settings. Plus I heard SCIV online lags like a mother****er.

I got the game like two months ago and been playing a hella lot of Yun, Sieg, Raph, and Cassie.

 

[ExMachina]

hey i love soul calibur but never played this game kuz all i have is wii. quick question... you all are talking about "after the patch" and all that... HOW do you deal with the game that you play just changing itself!?? Id be pissed if my main all of a sudden did less damage, or lost a certain combo!?

There's only been one patch that affects gameplay so far (1.03, other patches were for adding features to online play). The changes didn't take very long to discover at all because every character has a bunch of dedicated players doing constant research. Not to mention altogether they make it a more balanced game.

I can understand people's trepidation over a game changing too much that you never get a handle on it, but having a game updated and tweaked and having to pay the small price of relearning (arguably this helps keep things fresh, so it may not even be a cost for some people) is infinitely better than having a game stay broken forever, IMO.

Look at SC2; I know most people jumped on after its console release, but the game went through tons of major revisions in the arcade (Cass had an infinite in ver. A :O). US console release was version E and went on to be one of the most successful competitive FGs ever.

And for the people who are getting confused over terminology...

http://www.8wayrun.com/f6/newbie-silencer-t76/

Or ask me! It's really not that hard, I like spreading Calibur knowledge. If there are any terms in particular confusing people, I can give examples of 'em like so:

http://www.8wayrun.com/f6/sciv-frame-help-t1109/post19855.html

RaynEX: You think just the bustiness is bad, one of my friends has custom versions of female characters and almost inevitably gets her lower armor broken every single match. xD I swear, it's part of her strategy to distract the guys.

 

[~rh]

I play exclusive Xianghua. My custom costume on her is so sexy...

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

I like playing online, I've never seen any Ashlottes online yet though. --;

Ashlotte is best! ~~~~~~~~~

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

I like playing online, I've never seen any Ashlottes online yet though. --;

Ashlotte is best! ~~~~~~~~~

I haven't seen any Asholettes either. The only guest characters I see are the SW cast and Shura.

 

[SpitFire15]

Pretty much all the guest characters in SCIV are lame IMO. Well, I guess Vader and Apprentice are half-way acceptable since they aren't really that threating....but Yoda? He is such a ****ing joke. It's worse than Solid Snake in Brawl.

Link, Heihachi, and even Spawn were cooler guest characters than the SW guys and those lame clones that were thrown in SCIV.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

I can understand people's trepidation over a game changing too much that you never get a handle on it, but having a game updated and tweaked and having to pay the small price of relearning (arguably this helps keep things fresh, so it may not even be a cost for some people) is infinitely better than having a game stay broken forever, IMO.

Look at SC2; I know most people jumped on after its console release, but the game went through tons of major revisions in the arcade (Cass had an infinite in ver. A :O). US console release was version E and went on to be one of the most successful competitive FGs ever.

Nice comments, but I would have to disagree on some parts here, because broken doesn't always = bad (MvC2, SSBM <--- please don't anyone try to argue this when Space Animals, Shiek, Marth and some Peaches dominate most of the tournament scene in comparison to the playable characters available, Tekken 4, etc etc all come to mind with a solid game engine but certain characters where just simply too overpowered ), and more balance doesn't always = better (VF:4 Evo heavily comes to mind...I mean, yeah bad marketing but how many people play this outside of Japan?). My biggest beefs with "trying to balance" things is out constantly is that you'll have to stop and say, how much is simply too much. It has happened in every single fighting game, to where, the "next" best thing will be toned down, simply because it's the "next" best thing.

It becomes a huge mess when everything is so heavily toned down, your just simply playing a watered gameplay of what potentially would have been a great fighting game.

I don't mind the patches, however at one point, it should just simply stop. I really, really like Capcom's approach to Street Fighter IV, because Ono has stated that the game will be released for at least a year, to a year and a half before they consider patching it. This is nice because it allows players to really dig into the game before the developers start toning things down without things being blown out of proportion by players.

Believe me when I say this...players have a tendency to cry and whine about things...that simply aren't overall "overpowered", I'm already seeing alot of this with SC4 at it's current state.

On SC2, I agree and disagree, because SC2's popularity really wasn't it "balance gameplay" or "patches" it had alot to do with the fact that SC2 was the first Soul Calibur to really try to be globalize by spreading into 3 different systems, and having 3 exclusive characters. Link alone for the GC would have sold 209348290348209384 with multiple Nintendo fans who would have flocked to play him.

SC2's fame was really more of it's great marketing and exclusive access characters, in comparison to the previous SB/SC games that came before it. If you ask me, SC1 was still the greatest of all time. Patches are nice, but at one point, Namco should just simply stop, or they should follow suite in Capcom's idea of SF:IV, let the gameplay develop more first before patching things up.

So far, SC4 is solid, I believe only about one or two more patches are needed, at the most, however I would hope that the gameplay we have atm stays where it's at for a bit first.

 

[ExMachina]

Ah, you've made some good points in response.

It's definitely true that a game can remain popular for a long time even if it has terrible balance issues, but I think it's a much more enjoyable situation if it has a long competitive lifespan while having a large amount of the cast remain competitive. A couple years into SC2's lifespan, the worldwide SC community agreed that Xianghua was definitely the de facto competitive character. But you'd still see the mid/lower tier represented (and winning!) in major tournaments like the 2004 Cannes World Cup. I doubt that would have occurred if we were still playing ver. A of SC2 at that point.

As for your examples of completely unbalanced but long-lasting competitive games... Sure, they're perfectly fun and playable, but I still maintain that being balanced would have made them better. Like you said, they have some great base mechanics but some stupid character-specific stuff. What would have been the harm in either toning down the idiotically strong tools of the top-tier or beefing up some of the weaker characters while leaving the system itself untouched? No "watering down" of the core mechanics, which you say is your biggest beef with patching. Just maybe making that half-life combo off of a special low undoable or making a weak character's bread and butter a little safer. Any huge system-wide changes usually come with the next game in the series, not with patches...

So yes, I do agree that game devs should not excessively patch a game or jump the gun to please every whiney fan out there, but having continued support for a game is much better than having none at all. I don't agree 100% with all of SC4's 1.03 changes, but I'm excited that Namdai released a gameplay patch when they gave no previous indication that they'd be supporting SC4 in that sense at all.

To be fair about Virtua Fighter... Yes, it's super balanced but that has absolutely no impact on why it's unpopular outside of Japan; it's just that its system is so complex that it's inaccessible to most players and it doesn't have the flash or benefit of popular characters that usually reel people into other fighters.

So yes, it is definitely true that there are a lot of other factors that play into a game's popularity and longevity aside form actual quality of the game. But I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that having a larger percentage of the cast be viable in high level play is a good thing. Not a necessary thing, but definitely preferable to the opposite.