Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[da K.I.D.]

Who are you?

lol ad hominem.

sheiks jab seems really good, seems to have good range, her throws dont do much.

we should beat her out in the air.

watch out for that effing chain trick

 

[ShadowLink84]

Edit: Oh wait you're on ignore. Completely defeats the purpose of me answering you when I don't know what you are saying. *shrug*

 

[da K.I.D.]

my last 3 posts?

sheik really cant do much to stop sonics recovery, but she can lull you into a false sence of security and catch you with that up b, that junk is a killer

 

[ShadowLink84]

With Sheik it is best to take her to places without platforms.
The only place I would ever say could be used and has platforms is Yoshi's Island.
As Tenki mentioned earlier that chain is a problem though I don't think its perfect as he says it is (though its my experience so I'll ask about more).

Needles are another issue, due to their laser priority Sonic really is forced to approach her.Considering she has speed and priority over Sonic this creates several problems for Sonic.

I find its best to approach aerially primarily because her groundgame is that much better than Sonic's.
At one point or another he has to approach and in those situations she has the upperhand.
Chain fends him off grund wise while needles are good for when Sonic is at medium and far range.
Up close she has her tilts which lead into several things which really rack up damage.

Aerially she is a little better to deal with but she still has an advantage.
she can easily solve her killing issues with her down B.

I like using spinshots and spindash jumps as a method of getting close without compromising my speed and options.
Aerially is the better option when fighting her.
SH Fairs and SH Bairs are okay options.

I would say 60/40 against Sonic/

 

[da K.I.D.]

i think you should approach this similarly to kirby and MK and try to out range her with f-tilt

 

[Hylian]

Edit: Oh wait you're on ignore. Completely defeats the purpose of me answering you when I don't know what you are saying. *shrug*

I like how you put emphasis on the fact that you ignore people to make yourself seem important. Seriously you should at least make an attempt to learn how to argue before resorting to childish things like that.

Oh, and stay on topic. Which means don't reply to this.

 

[ShadowLink84]

mmk.

Anyways, other than tenki has anyone played a Sheik of high level like ryoko? Or would it be possible to get ryoko in here to provide more data?

 

[da K.I.D.]

nobody has made the export to the sheik boards yet, we should get somebody on that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hmm ill make a topic in their forum.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm popping in late, so I don't know if it's been said yet, but:

any stage with platforms: sheik throws a needle and shorthops a chain while under a platform, sonic has absolutely no attack that can make it through the chain. it outranges and outprioritizes every attack in sonic's arsenal besides his dair, which gets blocked by platforms.

but aside from that, a defenisive sheik is just DANG hard for sonic to get inside of. Sheik's just too fast. I know that sounds silly to say against sonic, but, seriously NO character, not even metaknight has a frame advantage on sheik. sheik's attacks come out faster than any other charcterin the game and most of these attacks have decent priority. As long as sheik has good reflexes, she can play reactively and block most of sonic's approaches.

oh, and if sheik doesn't mind using Zelda, Sonic can be KOd at really low damages.

 

[Tenki]

I'm popping in late, so I don't know if it's been said yet, but:

any stage with platforms: sheik throws a needle and shorthops a chain while under a platform, sonic has absolutely no attack that can make it through the chain. it outranges and outprioritizes every attack in sonic's arsenal besides his dair, which gets blocked by platforms.

but aside from that, a defenisive sheik is just DANG hard for sonic to get inside of. Sheik's just too fast. I know that sounds silly to say against sonic, but, seriously NO character, not even metaknight has a frame advantage on sheik. sheik's attacks come out faster than any other charcterin the game and most of these attacks have decent priority. As long as sheik has good reflexes, she can play reactively and block most of sonic's approaches.

oh, and if sheik doesn't mind using Zelda, Sonic can be KOd at really low damages.

lol I mentioned the chain thing months ago after playing against RyokoYaksa over wifi (green connection, so I could react and DI normally) - and I saw the futility of trying to break past chain for the first time.

I also mentioned it in this thread and in the other thread (we made a new thread to keep this one uncluttered.

The main difference between Sheik and Metaknight is that Sheik's moves last longer and alot more of her moves have punishable lag. If it's punishable out of shield or has a bit of commitment time, you can bet we'll find a way to reach it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yeah. Sheik has more cooldown lag. I was just making the comment that sheik can almost always react to anything thrown at her.... and the chain's irritating to face

 

[Tenki]

I think I found a counterstrategy for it. I can't claim it for my own since someone else had suggested it, but it sounds like it could be effective.
run to the other side of the stage/higher platform and side-taunt

Anyway, as long as Sheik's reactions are punishable, especially out of shield, it makes her more susceptible to things like Side-B/ASC cancels and other feints.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think I found a counterstrategy for it. I can't claim it but it sounds like it could be effective.

Anyway, as long as Sheik's reactions are punishable, especially out of shield, it makes her more susceptible to things like Side-B/ASC cancels and other feints.

side b cancel almost always just gets chained or needled instead, which is not a punishable response to that feint.

and many of sheik's moves AREN'T that punishable.

I'm not claiming sheik destroys sonic, but sheik has a mad good defensive agame against him.

 

[Tenki]

side b cancel almost always just gets chained or needled instead, which is not a punishable response to that feint.

Well the premise behind it is exactly that though- if you react to side-B charging, I shield(and/or roll) to defend against your attack. XD

Rolling I can see working against needles if I'm close enough. If you freak out and release chain if I roll towards you during start up then that's kind of punishable. But if you keep it out then you'd win that situation ;o

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Well the premise behind it is exactly that though- if you react to side-B charging, I shield(and/or roll) to defend against your attack. XD

Rolling I can see working against needles if I'm close enough. If you freak out and release chain if I roll towards you during start up then that's kind of punishable. But if you keep it out then you'd win that situation ;o

my point was, if we respond with needles or chain to your side B cancel, then you can block or dodge, but you can't counter, so it's always a safe response to that.

 

[Tenki]

btw, the chain thing is only for levels with non-moving platforms overhead.

just.. making sure.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

btw, the chain thing is only for levels with non-moving platforms overhead.

just.. making sure.

yeah. otherwise you can dair through it.

 

[Tenki]

spring goes through chain, AFAIK.

That's the reason why I freaked out the first time I had this happen to me. I broke through the chain with spring every time except for when there was a platform over Sheik.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

oh yeah. that too. chain doesn't stop projectiles. That includes sonic's spring (besides maybe 'nades and missiles... but I'm not even sure about them.)

 

[Kinzer]

I revived the thread in the Zelda boards, so that they may know that we are discussing the other half of the matchup.

 

[Blackbelt]

Let me just say that I hate playing against Sheik with Sonic.


Stupid Needles, stupid Ftilt lock, etc.



I much prefer facing Zelda.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh BTW this is off-topic, but what does AFAIK mean?

I feel slow stupid... :/

 

[infomon]

As Far As I Know

I also use AFAICT a lot: As Far As I Can Tell

 

[thecatinthehat]

Oh BTW this is off-topic, but what does AFAIK mean?

I feel slow stupid... :/

As Far As I Know.

lol

edit: ****.

 

[da K.I.D.]

nice sig,

you need to stop hole jocking on sakura tho

 

[Kinzer]

Meh, can we get back to Sheik now?

Meh whatever, it doesn't matter, We already have almost all of the matchup taken care of in the other threads, so now all that is probably left is to discuss the stratigy with the both of them added in as well as coming with the matchup ratio in the situation.

Get that out of the way, and we can move on to the 24th matchup.

Also I am on your threadz, eating your posts away to the next page.

 

[Deoxys]

Get out of our boards.

Marth wasn't decided to be black, that's going to be changed, and MK's been decided as a red I believe.

Don't be so rude. I figured that the chart was composed of things that were decided... MK is still a horrible matchup for Sonic, but if you want to deny it that's fine, too.

 

[Kinzer]

Don't take it to heart, the Sonic boards are spammy/sarcastic 99.9% of the time.

But seriously, it's debatable what matchups are hard counters on Sonic, as far as I know, the worst we have so far is just 65/35s, and that's still counted as red on our graph. This includes Meta Knight.

Marth really wasn't suppose to be black.

 

[da K.I.D.]

As far as im concerned, the only character that hard counters all sonics is MK.

Every other character you will find a respectable sonic main that doesnt really have problems with that character. sonic is such a style based character with so many options that everyone plays him differently to the point that he can be effective against any character. Even though he doesnt have many matchup advantages in general, the vast majority of his matchups are just different levels of "its winnable"

 

[MalcolmM]

MK isnt that good...its a mindstate man. Once u put him on that pedestal and get pissed everytime he does something ridiculous ur dooming urself. Sonic doesnt do all that bad against MK....he has way worse matchups....but since those characters dont have the "god-tier" stigma that he does we write them down as 55:45 or 60:40. Who here has beaten a NOTABLE peach or DK? or G&W? or ROB

 

[da K.I.D.]

sonic is actually really good against ROB imo, but either way, theres only like 5 ROB mains left.

you came pretty effing close to beating Bum so that counts for me.

werent you the same one that beat that one GaW in a recent vid?

against peach all you have to do is learn to time uptilts and you are golden.

p.s. you just said, MK isnt that good, but he does a bunch of rediculous stuff.

 

[Kinzer]

Should we not move on, fellas?

This boards have gotten more dead, sadly.

 

[Napilopez]

Can we put up a general statement on the first page that says to not go by matchup numbers much when it comes to Sonic? Because NO ONE will agree on all his bad matchups, geez.

I still go by what panda said, its all in the hands of the player. If some Sonics can do well against MK and you can't then it's likely more to do with your playstyle. I will likely never accept that Sonic gets destroyed by MK, as I don't see it on paper, and much less in actual play.

I used to think Olimar was a true hard counter for Sonic, but now that I've learned to play something other than FD against him, and the matchup in general not so much. I honestly don't think Sonic has a single "hard counter". As in a character that its near impossible to win against in hgh level play. Because I don't think there is a single character all or almost everyone agrees is a truly horrible matchup for Sonic.

p.s. you just said, MK isnt that good, but he does a bunch of rediculous stuff.

he said once MK does "something rediculous", not a bunch. Any char can do something ridiculous. I've pulled off triple bthrow chains into mindgamed charged fsmash kills and people all of a sudden think Sonic is uber awesome.

But @ Malcom: G&W, perhaps, but ROB and DK bad matchups? Those are some of his most even matchups I'd say.

 

[Chis]

Oh great, Pit's next.

Can we just say 50:50 and move on?

 

[Napilopez]

Oh god, pit is annoying to fight. Not hard, but annoying.

 

[Kinzer]

Can we put up a general statement on the first page that says to not go by matchup numbers much when it comes to Sonic? Because NO ONE will agree on all his bad matchups, geez.

I still go by what panda said, its all in the hands of the player. If some Sonics can do well against MK and you can't then it's likely more to do with your playstyle. I will likely never accept that Sonic gets destroyed by Sonic, as I don't see it on paper, and much less in actual play.

I used to think Olimar was a true hard counter for Sonic, but now that I've learned to play something other than FD against him, and the matchup in general not so much. I honestly don't think Sonic has a single "hard counter". As in a character that its near impossible to win against in hgh level play. Because I don't think there is a single character all or almost everyone agrees is a truly horrible matchup for Sonic.

No matter how much people may disagree, we have to go by numbers, because that's the purpose of a matchup thread. We also have to play by the rules, because if we were doing this on player skill, it would be much harder to measure, for example of course all the Sonic's have fought Meta Knights to the point that it could be neutral in practice, but we need to be as accurate as can be... meaning we have to go by paper/pretend this was Sonic/MK at the highest level of play.

Also WTH Sonic gets destroyed by Sonic? I think you mean MK my good chum.

Oh great, Pit's next.

Can we just say 50:50 and move on?

Err, is there something you have against Pit or something? I feel it's still 50-50 too but regardless we need to be sure of it.

 

[Napilopez]

LOL

Fixed.

And yea, I know we have to go by the numbers, I'm fine with that. But I do think we should have a disclaimer or something lol. Because as far as I'm concerned, for me, personally, MK and Marth are both 50:50

 

[Kinzer]

A disclaimer would be nice once Greenstreet comes back from his trip.

14th. post, who wants to volunteer to manage the Pit matchup?

 

[Chis]

I will...

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