Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[darkNES386]

lol

if you found out who that was...

:[

Well... it was August, so we I guess I can cut KID some slack . In case I really upset him, I'll upload a vid of a local game and watch who I always run into a tournaments back home.

Seriously though, Sonic's fast enough to run off the higher platforms and even air dodge if he has to down to Falco's level. Lesson learned everyone.

 

[Kinzer]

So I herd ya can also use Frigate Orpheon to CP Flaco Lobmardi.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco is pretty much a pain in the *** to deal with for Sonic.

He has lasers, so Sonic has to approach, and they outprioritize all of Sonic's attacks, so if he has good aiming, he can pretty much shut down any of Sonic's approaches with a laser.

His recovery is predictable, but at the same time difficult to challenge. SideB comes out before average human reaction time and is pretty low lag, but I'm pretty sure Sonic like many characters can N-air him out of it if he's fast enough. His Up-B however is VERY easy to gimp. Not that he'll be forced to use it often, but when he is, you probably know what to do.

His spike has uber priority, so don't recover from below. Oh yeah, and don't get grabbed of course.

Falco has disjointed range on quite a few attacks actually. Reflector, Jab, and F-smash are all pretty disjointed. His tilts and back air are also fast and have pretty decent range.

 

[Kinzer]

Falco is pretty much a pain in the *** to deal with for Sonic.

He has lasers, so Sonic has to approach, and they outprioritize all of Sonic's attacks, so if he has good aiming, he can pretty much shut down any of Sonic's approaches with a laser.

His recovery is predictable, but at the same time difficult to challenge. SideB comes out before average human reaction time and is pretty low lag, but I'm pretty sure Sonic like many characters can N-air him out of it if he's fast enough. His Up-B however is VERY easy to gimp. Not that he'll be forced to use it often, but when he is, you probably know what to do.

His spike has uber priority, so don't recover from below. Oh yeah, and don't get grabbed of course.

Falco has disjointed range on quite a few attacks actually. Reflector, Jab, and F-smash are all pretty disjointed. His tilts and back air are also fast and have pretty decent range.

So are a lot of other people.

Doesn't this hold true for everybody?

Agreed.

Yep.

Uh-Huh.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Anyhow, what I meant was he's a pain in the *** cause he forces Sonic to approach due to having projectiles. Since they are actually LASERS, that means he gets to hit you out of spindashes and the like reliably, whereas Mario's Fireballs persay usually only halt Sonic's momentum when he approaches.

Some matchups are more a pain in the *** for the characters going against Sonic because they don't have real ways to force approaches from Sonic, like G&W for example. I mean, sure, he has a pretty significant advantage over Sonic, but he actually has to work to get Sonic to him since that requires playing really gay, shieldcamping a lot, and baiting out Sonic's approaches.

 

[Napilopez]

Falco is pretty much a pain in the *** to deal with for Sonic.

1) He has lasers, so Sonic has to approach, and they outprioritize all of Sonic's attacks, so if he has good aiming, he can pretty much shut down any of Sonic's approaches with a laser.

2) His recovery is predictable, but at the same time difficult to challenge. SideB comes out before average human reaction time and is pretty low lag, but I'm pretty sure Sonic like many characters can N-air him out of it if he's fast enough.

3) His Up-B however is VERY easy to gimp. Not that he'll be forced to use it often, but when he is, you probably know what to do.

4) His spike has uber priority, so don't recover from below. Oh yeah, and don't get grabbed of course.

5) Falco has disjointed range on quite a few attacks actually. Reflector, Jab, and F-smash are all pretty disjointed. His tilts and back air are also fast and have pretty decent range.

=/

Sorry A2ZOMG(I really love sounding out your name in my head haha). This post just has a lot of... not so win in it. No offense =P

Falco has the advantage probably, but its not THAT bad at all, imo, although I had recently been on a Falco losing streak XD.

1) In the end, sonic approaches everyone. Lolz. And no matter how good falco is, lazers<run+powershield. Aerials wise, sonic is really quick in the air. Falco wont be landing more than a couple of lazers in the air against Sonic. And its not as if Sonic will usually be a far enough distance for falco to really use the lasers against him, except at like the beginning of stocks.

2) Don't forget this IS the quickest character in the game you know. Falco recovery is more punishable by Sonic than most characters. Falco's SideB takes 18 frames to release, which is not too quick at all. Its time in which Sonic can cover about a third of FD. Ad to this travel time and ending lag time, and Sonic will be there by the time its over, if he uses it abover the stage. If he uses it to sweetspot the ledge than thats different, but chances are Sonic will be running towards him anyways. Doing anything but sweetspotting the ledge can be very dangerous for falco here. Some falcos like to jump from holding the ledge into a SideB... Bad idea against Sonic.

3) This is true.

4) This is not. Or at least not against Sonic. I've said it many times: Uair>Everything. Except perhaps D3 Dair, but I think it beats that too. Falco's spike in particular is easily outpriorized by Uair. I always say that recovering from below using Uair IS the safest way to recover without being damaged when using Sonic, but I emphasize this moreso against Falco. This will avoid lazer damage when recovering horizontally, and any risk of being hit with a bair. Since Uair totally beats out Falco's dair, theres not an aerial for you to worry about.

5) This is all true.

Sonics, remember to use ftilt and dtilt here. Ftilt outranges all his tilts and jabs and whatnot. Reflector comes out on the same frame or near the same frame as your ftilt(frame 6 apparently). Dtilt combos quite easily into falco. Chaining bthrows is also fun with his fast fall speed.

Again, Falco's main advantage is how easily he can rack damage on you. While you have to run around scavenging for openings, and hope to get a nice combo/string from there, Falco needs only one grab to inflict a gazillion damage. His damage rate slows down significantly though once you are past the chaingrab range and can escape hs throw setups more easily.

 

[Kinzer]

Falco has the advantage probably, but its not THAT bad at all, imo, although I had recently been on a Falco losing Steak XD.

It's fixed for ya Napz.

This meme is too good.

 

[aeghrur]

GASP, NAPI HAD FAKE STEAK? (hint, fake steak=losing steak)
Oh, and it's not more of Dair's priority to watch out for as being spiked again, lol.
And A2ZOMG, Napi's right, some parts of U-air=UBER disjoint, lol.
Not to mention, invince frames on parts of spring and airdodge maybe?
Lazer spam is annoying, if you can't powershield consistently. But we can, because even from a fox-trot, we can side-B into shield or even side-B roll/spot dodge.
Of course, it's still going to be annoying, deal damage, and limit our options.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well, the thing about Falco's D-air is that I'm pretty sure it has invul frames on the feet, and it comes out so fast that you can't afford to whiff an aerial against it. Or his B-air for that matter.

By the way, SHL autocancels so even if you powershield, you still have to get past his 2 frame Jab and stuff.

See here, the thing about Sonic I see is that there are a few characters that don't have particularly spammable projectiles that you can semi-camp against and react to if they make a spacing mistake. Likewise I feel the problem with Sonic is going against characters where he has to play on someone else's terms because they can reach him from the distance where he would dash camp and etc. These generally should be his harder matchups, because of his options being more limited.

 

[aeghrur]

That just means it's disjointed doesn't it? If that's the case, sonic's U-air might still beat it, lol.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Well, the thing about Falco's D-air is that I'm pretty sure it has invul frames on the feet, and it comes out so fast that you can't afford to whiff an aerial against it. Or his B-air for that matter.

It doesn't have invincible frames, now you're just making things up.
A powershield>autocancel.
Simply because I can Ftilt Falco while he is busy jabbing away.

By the way, SHL autocancels so even if you powershield, you still have to get past his 2 frame Jab and stuff.

[] I addressed this earlier.

See here, the thing about Sonic I see is that there are a few characters that don't have particularly spammable projectiles that you can semi-camp against and react to if they make a spacing mistake. Likewise I feel the problem with Sonic is going against characters where he has to play on someone else's terms because they can reach him from the distance where he would dash camp and etc. These generally should be his harder matchups, because of his options being more limited.

not necessarily because he really doesn't camp perse.
he will always approach the opponent. the limiting options is that Falco can restrict Sonic to the ground where he is superior.
Not because Falco can attack Falco from afar. It is much deeper than that.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It doesn't have invincible frames, now you're just making things up.

I've been hit out of G&W's Up-B by Falco's D-air.

The entire thing isn't invincible, but I highly suspect the feet are. It did in fact work that way in Melee.

 

[Kinzer]

I've hit MKs out of their Shuttle Loop recoveries with Sonic's Nair... although it did trade hits... but still... maybe somebody can use something with that.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ive had some yoshis tell me that yoshis nose is invulnerable on his upsmash.

body part specific invulnerability is not that uncommon.

oh and btw, eff you Dnes
and tenki sucks.

i say spin spam is one of the best options in this match since sometimes its the only thing that cna punish some of his moves. up throw followups are hard to do because of down air.
best way to edge guard falco
make him recover on the stage
run to the middle of the stage
turnaround forward smash

and since we are watching vids of me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtcUsZ04BAg&feature=related
watch my first kill in this match, around 1:45

 

[Napilopez]

1) Well, the thing about Falco's D-air is that I'm pretty sure it has invul frames on the feet, and it comes out so fast that you can't afford to whiff an aerial against it. Or his B-air for that matter.

2) By the way, SHL autocancels so even if you powershield, you still have to get past his 2 frame Jab and stuff.

3) See here, the thing about Sonic I see is that there are a few characters that don't have particularly spammable projectiles that you can semi-camp against and react to if they make a spacing mistake. Likewise I feel the problem with Sonic is going against characters where he has to play on someone else's terms because they can reach him from the distance where he would dash camp and etc. These generally should be his harder matchups, because of his options being more limited.

1)Someone go test out Sonic Uair vs Falco Dair. Sonics Uair is wayyyy too disjointed. I'm telling you, I ALWAYS use uair against falcos dair and beat it. I think lots of Sonic mains don't even realize just howww disjointed Uair is. It decreases your hurtbox, AND extends past the animation of the tip of his feet.

Sonics Uair is also very fast. Thing is it has two hits. For the first hit, you'd need to be to the side of Falco to beat it out, I don't think the first hit has enough vertical range to beat out Falco's Dair. But I was speaking of using Uair from a significant distance below, in which case you can space it well enough so Falco can't do absolutely anything to it.

Lol, I preach to death about Uair XD.

2) True. But ftilt outranges jab, so spacing matters too.

3) Hmm... Well the thing is, having limited options is not necesarily a truly bad thing, so long as the options left are effective. Also, Sonic is heavily punishment based. In a way, he very often is playing on someone elses terms. Of course he cretes openings with cancels and whatnots, but still. I just dont see the big issue with lazers here. I have tons of falco experience, and laser has always been one of the least of my worries. As soon as you close the gap, which Sonic can do so quickly and easily, they aren't really a problem =/ Again, throw followups are a much bigger issue. Jab and quick aerials at short hop height are very annoying as well.

But maybe thats just me about l4z0r$. Perhaps its best to ask my fellow Sonic mains.

Are lasers typically problematic for you against falco?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I've been hit out of G&W's Up-B by Falco's D-air.

The entire thing isn't invincible, but I highly suspect the feet are. It did in fact work that way in Melee.

That is ebcause it has less priority you know? Use your head and actual data not your observations.
Sorry if I sound a bit pissy but I am rather aggravated right now.

Falco's Dair does not ahve invincibility. You struck G&W when he has no invincibility. He;ll G&W's ^B doesn't have amazing priority to begin with, its just very fast.

I highly doubt that yoshi's nose has invincibility, if it did, you could fire a laser through it which I have not seen happen yet. (and I spam my lasers on Yoshi like no one's business just tot est it out).

It just has high priority.

 

[da K.I.D.]

are you agrivated at us, or did you get pwned again in the MK banning thread?

lololololollolololololol

 

[Kinzer]

Either way, do we think we have enough information on Flaco Lobmardi to move on to the King?

Also this is the 8th post, and LOL at Greenstreet like quintiple+ posting to get up to Falco.

 

[ShadowLink84]

are you agrivated at us, or did you get pwned again in the MK banning thread?

lololololollolololololol

Kid, don't make me kill you with bad Sonic games.
-_-;
Pwned? laughable idea.

 

[A2ZOMG]

That is ebcause it has less priority you know? Use your head and actual data not your observations.
Sorry if I sound a bit pissy but I am rather aggravated right now.

Falco's Dair does not ahve invincibility. You struck G&W when he has no invincibility. He;ll G&W's ^B doesn't have amazing priority to begin with, its just very fast.

I highly doubt that yoshi's nose has invincibility, if it did, you could fire a laser through it which I have not seen happen yet. (and I spam my lasers on Yoshi like no one's business just tot est it out).

It just has high priority.

G&W's Up-B DOES have a lot of priority. There is virtually no N-air in the entire game, not even ROB's, which is capable of hitting G&W out of his Up-B.

Sometimes when you sweetspot the ledge from below, it actually hits people that are standing near the ledge.

I HIGHLY doubt that Falco's D-air is particularly disjointed. Especially not on the lingering part of the hitbox. Yet I got hit out of the Up-B by that attack. And he didn't even flinch.

Considering that Falco's feet WERE actually invincible on his Melee D-air, I don't think it's that unreasonable to assume it's the same in this game.

 

[ShadowLink84]

G&W's Up-B DOES have a lot of priority. There is virtually no N-air in the entire game, not even ROB's, which is capable of hitting G&W out of his Up-B.

That is ecause of the invincibility frames that exist within G&W's ^B.
Thats why if ROB tries to nair G&W, it isn't very successful.

Sometimes when you sweetspot the ledge from below, it actually hits people that are standing near the ledge.

Large hitbox coupled with invincibility.

I HIGHLY doubt that Falco's D-air is particularly disjointed. Especially not on the lingering part of the hitbox. Yet I got hit out of the Up-B by that attack. And he didn't even flinch.

Probably because you hit him during the last part of his^B where his priority isn't as great. it is very doable and I have done so with Link's Dair.

Considering that Falco's feet WERE actually invincible on his Melee D-air, I don't think it's that unreasonable to assume it's the same in this game.

Different games=different move properties.
They don't just copy and paste. I have struck Falco during his Dair with Sonic's Uair.

 

[da K.I.D.]

thats just because sonics is disjointed enough to hit falcos body from below without touching falcos foot

and ill **** you with GOOD sonic games

you have more ammo but mine is BETTAH

 

[ShadowLink84]

thats just because sonics is disjointed enough to hit falcos body from below without touching falcos foot

and ill **** you with GOOD sonic games

you have more ammo but mine is BETTAH

The amount of crappy games I have is more than enough to conquer your good games.
I PLAY SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG AND SONIC 06!

Kid if you hit the Falco's feet with the disjointed box as soon as Falco's hitbox for his Dair comes out, Falco gets out prioritized.
Ive always been attempting to hit G&W out of his ^B with a Dair but no luck. I could only do it during the last part.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Sonic has so many bad match ups. Sonic's d-air edge guard is pretty good against Falco. Overall I'd call this a neutral match up.

 

[da K.I.D.]

it looks like its neutral but its not.

just like it LOOKS like he has a lot of bad matchups but he doesnt...

hes kinda like marth
only really gets ***** by 2-3 people, only really ***** 1-2 and goes close to even with everyone else

 

[Jim Morrison]

it looks like its neutral but its not.

just like it LOOKS like he has a lot of bad matchups but he doesnt...

hes kinda like marth
only really gets ***** by 23 people, only really ***** 1-2 and goes even to even with Crapton Flacon

Who can C what i did thar?

BTW; fixed for you

 

[ShadowLink84]

Who can C what i did thar?

BTW; fixed for you

name the 23 characters that go 70-30 with Sonic.

 

[Jim Morrison]

MK and friends

 

[Napilopez]

MK no way goes past 60:40 with Sonic, IDC what the rest of the Sonic boards say ^_^

JK there, kinda.

Even if Sonic has 70:30 matchups against the entire cast, real life play numbers are nowhere near that bad. I agree with KID, except that I don't find any chars who truly obliterate Sonic. I would say Olimar, but seeing as several Sonic mains seem to do well against him, and the fact that he is gimptastic keeps me from saying so.

I don't think he has any nigh unwinnable matchups like, Falcon vs MK.

 

[Jim Morrison]

It was kind of a joke post anyway

 

[ROOOOY!]

Sonic doesn't **** anyone.
Sonic's only 30:70 is against MK, that's it.
A few of the better characters in the game are 35:65 against him (Wario, Marth as examples)

He's kinda like Mario match-up wise.

Sonic is 60:40 on like 5 characters, but not higher than that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

So why is almost everyone we discussed so far red? that's 60:40 right?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Iono, after further playing a lot of them I disagree with a lot of what we've already done. >_<

And our advantages just haven't come up yet.

*Points and laughs at CF, Ganoldorf and Bowser*

 

[Jim Morrison]

Play me, ROY? Unless you're downloading CP, we're gonna be yellow or better

 

[ROOOOY!]

Okidoke, who's hosting?

I'll probably just go random tonight, not in a Sonic mood.

 

[Jim Morrison]

**** yea random. You host
Falcon Ditto to warm up

 

[Napilopez]

I think most of the reds honestly shouldnt be red...*points at DK, Snake, Marth, Fox, Pika, ZSS*

I thought we had agreed pika was 55-45? And fox and DK as well?

EDIT:

It seems like just about everyone and their mothers know how to play falcon at least somewhat decently XD

Bored EDIT:

Am I the only one who finds Mario harder than MK Snake, Marth, and Gdubz? >_>

Well maybe not really. Its not that I lose them more against mario than against the other chars... Maybe just Mario's annoying to fight for me XD.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lol, not Marth, idunnoBATMAN about DK and Snake, but I agree with pika. Not on ZSS

 

[ROOOOY!]

Mario should be red.
DK shouldn't be.

^^ My opinion.

We actually agreed that Marth should be red, Pika should be neutral along with Fox, and that ZSS should be neutral (I agree with that disadvantage given, though >_>)

I'm having trouble connecting with my wii. I'll restart the net and try again. I'll be playing in a moment.

 

[Jim Morrison]

You're too slow. I could've crwanked by now.