Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Dark.Pch]

Haven't played too many Peaches, but from what I HAVE played, I'd say 60:40 Peach is pretty justified.

Peach does feel vulnerable off the level though, all about keeping her off, then edgeguarding for an easy KO.

Oh, and guyz, up-angled fSmash ftw if they mispace their dair floats. Utilt works too if your fast enough.

Oh, and crouching to avoid dair is too much fun.

I suggest you play the match up more before you say things like that.

You are not gonna get easy kills off of edguarding. I'll tell you that right now, and if you do, i'll be honest, the Peaches you played ether suck or have no clue how to return correctly.

Also I dont thing an upsmash is fast enough out of the shield to get peach inbetween Dairs. Uptilt is your best bet.

And crouching wont save you nether. I can float at any height I want. The average height I float to Dair sonic, I can pick him up from his crouching. Dair has priority and a stabbing type of attack.

 

[Kinzer]

Peach...lightweight...Napi, what are you smoking, she weights more than Marth! XD

 

[aeghrur]

Seriously? Dang, peach needs to shed a few pounds. lol...

 

[Dark.Pch]

How would Sonic do gimpwise? His recovery is better than peaches, but peach's isnt exactly bad, it just doesn't give her alot of vertical height. So I'm think of Dair semispikes, since that low and away angle will make it moe difficult for peach to recover. But of course they can just DI appropriately. Umm Uair can beat peaches Dair, but it has to be spaced pretty darn well. Lagless aerials are annoying XD

I dont know how I missed this.

Sonics recovery is not better than Peach. I have lots of options to recover

- F-B (X2 if I want to for more distance.)
- Toad
- Floating
- Up-B

So Good luck with your Dair spikes

Also, Marth is lighter than Peach.

 

[da K.I.D.]

really?
can somebody link me to a weight list?
i think sonic is the same weight as mario when he has a full water pack

and id think id do well against peachs because my playstyle doesnt allow for many oppurtunities to get out prioritised

p.s. sonic has a top 5 in game recovery, its legit better than pits.

side b
down b
homing attack
spinshot
jumping out of side and down b into
spring with invincibility frames

owns peach recovery

yes you have good options to recover, but we have more, and (no offence intended) ours are better

 

[Camalange]

Sonic can recover with Side B, Down B, Homing Attack, (sometimes spinshot) and Spring. The homing attack can also be used to hit under the stage to save himself from being sent at odd directions (And I don't mean stall, just get to a better position) He can also jump cancel all of his spin dashes.

You all bring up really good points but for some reason, everyone insists their character has better recovery than Sonic...Both Peach and Sonic have good recovery options but Sonic wins there.

 

[Tenki]

By better recovery, it's like the GAW discussion. By NO means is it limited to just range. Peach counterattacks while protecting from above with up-B, and has float and all that other fun stuff as well.
PeachisuglyPeachisuglyPeachisuglyPeachisuglyPeachisuglyPeachisugly
It's a pretty safe recovery. :l You can only break it from the side, if you can time it right, or if she's floating and decides to not whack you with an aerial.

 

[Dark.Pch]

really?
can somebody link me to a weight list?
i think sonic is the same weight as mario when he has a full water pack

and id think id do well against peachs because my playstyle doesnt allow for many oppurtunities to get out prioritised

p.s. sonic has a top 5 in game recovery, its legit better than pits.

side b
down b
homing attack
spinshot
jumping out of side and down b into
spring with invincibility frames

owns peach recovery

yes you have good options to recover, but we have more, and (no offence intended) ours are better

By better recovery, it's like the GAW discussion. By NO means is it limited to just range. Peach counterattacks while protecting from above with up-B, and has float and all that other fun stuff as well.

It's a pretty safe recovery. :l You can only break it from the side, if you can time it right, or if she's floating and decides to not whack you with an aerial.

10 Peaches

 

[Espy Rose]

I suggest you play the match up more before you say things like that.

Then allow me to fix it: Most of my post was assuming the Peach makes misteaks.

You are not gonna get easy kills off of edguarding. I'll tell you that right now, and if you do, i'll be honest, the Peaches you played ether suck or have no clue how to return correctly.

True, but it doesn't mean that even the best Peach won't screw up and give you an easy guard.

Also I dont thing an upsmash is fast enough out of the shield to get peach inbetween Dairs. Uptilt is your best bet.

Re-read my post please, since I never mentioned up smash at all. An angled fsmash, assuming they float low, can hit Peach with proper spacing/timing. As you said, utilt can work.

I know up smash won't be likely to connect in a scenario like that.

And crouching wont save you nether. I can float at any height I want. The average height I float to Dair sonic, I can pick him up from his crouching. Dair has priority and a stabbing type of attack.

Again, this is assuming that you mis-space the float (in this case, a wee bit too high).

Too high, and crouching can potentially make the dair whiff.
Too low, and with proper timing/spacing, utilt or angled fsmash as they approach.

---

Again, most of my post was assuming the Peach makes a misteak.

Oh, and Peach's recovery >= Sonic's. Except that double jump, it's horrendous. :D

Sonics recovery is not better than Peach. I have lots of options to recover

As I said above, either better (but not by much), or even with Sonic's recovery. They both have a multitude of options to execute offstage that gets them back onstage. If anything Peach's is superior only in that she has a hitbox above her as she does it.

Oh, and she can't grab backward. It has nothing to do with this convo, but it's just funny.

Even though the Peach players I've played aren't specifically "great", it's good to know that you can bair Peach's up-B for a stage spike when done correctly. :D

 

[Dark.Pch]

Could have sworn I saw a U instead of an F. My bad on that one. But as for that. 50% chance of that happening. I have been claped out of my Dair before from a Fsmash.

Of curse people screw up. No one is perfect. But its something that should not be depended on. Chances of that happening are not so high.

And Yes Peach can grab backwards. Its just not all that great but she can do it.

 

[Tenki]

OH I REMEMBERED MY SUPERIMPORTANTQUESTIONTHATGOTIGNOREDBEFORE!

well, not really

but kind of.

Which direction do you DI to escape Peach's chaingrab? ;d

 

[Espy Rose]

Could have sworn I saw a U instead of an F. My bad on that one. But as for that. 50% chance of that happening. I have been claped out of my Dair before from a Fsmash.

Of curse people screw up. No one is perfect. But its something that should not be depended on. Chances of that happening are not so high.

And Yes Peach can grab backwards. Its just not all that great but she can do it.

It's all cool. And hell, 50/50 is good enough for someone like me. :D

True it shouldn't be something one depends on, but I like to put emphasis on it because all misteaks must be punished. Brawl lacks a punishment game as well as Melee, so I like to capitalize on every misteak possible in a match. Then you count in that Sonic's KO potential is almost reliant on how fast you can rack up damage (not including gimps), then you really need to be able to forcibly punish every wrong the opponent does.

Huh, didn't know that Peach COULD grab backward. Must be kinda small window...or something?

@Tenki: Peach has a Sonic chaingrab?

Oh, and is there a way to DI from dair to recieve as little damage as possible, or even get out of the move itself?

 

[Tenki]

@Tenki: Peach has a Sonic chaingrab?

Oh, and is there a way to DI from dair to recieve as little damage as possible, or even get out of the move itself?

I think it's D-throw or something. Whenever it's happened to me, it's usually online and I'm caught doing DI in the same direction all the time so I haven't screwed around with it.

as for D-air, you might be able to SDI upwards.

 

[Dark.Pch]

OH I REMEMBERED MY SUPERIMPORTANTQUESTIONTHATGOTIGNOREDBEFORE!

well, not really

but kind of.

Which direction do you DI to escape Peach's chaingrab? ;d

I dont really chaingrab even if I could. Just never crosses my mind. Cause its cause how I play but I think itsUp and away.

It's all cool. And hell, 50/50 is good enough for someone like me. :D


Oh, and is there a way to DI from dair to recieve as little damage as possible, or even get out of the move itself?

You dont DI it, you wont get out. You smash DI it.

 

[Tenki]

You dont DI it, you wont get out. You smash DI it.

Pretty sure he was also indirectly implying that he wanted to know which direction was the best to SDI out of it.

Also, if you SDI out of it, are there usually followups to it, as Sheik does when people DI towards her F-tilt?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Pretty sure he was also indirectly implying that he wanted to know which direction was the best to SDI out of it.

Also, if you SDI out of it, are there usually followups to it, as Sheik does when people DI towards her F-tilt?

A Fair is what I would mostly follow up with or the most common from smart players. But you can smash DI and then jump out of her reach. You have to smash DI up and away.

 

[Espy Rose]

Pretty sure he was also indirectly implying that he wanted to know which direction was the best to SDI out of it.

This.

I never bothered to call it Smash DI. I think the name is lame.

But alright then, now I know...

Spoiler

and knowing is half the battle. The other half is steak

 

[Napilopez]

I dont know how I missed this.

Sonics recovery is not better than Peach. I have lots of options to recover

- F-B (X2 if I want to for more distance.)
- Toad
- Floating
- Up-B

So Good luck with your Dair spikes

Also, Marth is lighter than Peach.

Just to clarify some stuff. I guess you can argue it both ways recovery wise. I'll just go with what tenki said. I guess just that in my mind when it comes to recovery, I think who is more likely to be gimped. And as many options as peach may have, as good priority and defenses and whatnot she may have, I would still argue she is more likely to be gimped than sonic.

And yea, I was just asking about what would be the best way to edgeguard her, wasn't even automatically assuming Dair spikes. It just came to mind as an option because of its trajectory, but i never use Dair spike anyways. It just seems like it would be more effective in this matchup.

Of curse people screw up. No one is perfect. But its something that should not be depended on. Chances of that happening are not so high.

Peach has several options to attack and inflict damage upon Sonic, and we all agree peach has the advantage in this matchup. Since we agree on that however, we're trying to find the best strategies against peach. You have to realize that exploiting people's screw-ups is something Sonic does depend on, an that's part of the reason why Sonic is a bad character. He can create openings and take control of the game, but simply not as well as much of the rest of the cast. Which is why in a matchup discussion for Sonic, after we've established advantages and stuff, I believe we should refer to possible mistakes the opponent may make and how Sonic can best take advantage of said openings. We already know the odds are about 60:40, so we have to work out how to beat the odds.

 

[Dark.Pch]

peach is not really a gimpable character DUE to her recovery. it's a common Fact that Peach is one of those characters you wont't be gimping so easy. Her immunity to gimps are very high. And You trying to with sonic, i'll tell you right now, its a waste of time.

 

[Napilopez]

peach is not really a gimpable character DUE to her recovery. it's a common Fact that Peach is one of those characters you wont't be gimping so easy. Her immunity to gimps are very high. And You trying to with sonic, i'll tell you right now, its a waste of time.

Fair enough. Although I stand by my point, I won't argue this more since I haven't played a good enough Peach in a while, and gimping on both sides will nevertheless not be a major factor in the matchup anyways.

 

[Kinzer]

How does Hyphening the Usmash do against Peach when she is floating?

I bet it works like a charm, with the funky properties of it and such.

 

[Tenki]

It usually trades hits with the D-air that Peach will usually have out when she's above you.

Peach gets sent downwards like a "oh, that almost hurt" and recovers while you flinch because the D-air will probably hit you out of the U-smash. Unless you catch her at the right time.

 

[Kinzer]

They might not see it coming sometimes.

It isn't hyphened for nothing, afterall, what with catching them offgaurd and junk.

 

[Dark.Pch]

its all about who beats who first in the Upsmash Vs Dair. They both have priority. Which is why, as tenki said, you might trade hits. Sonics upsmash priority is bigger if I recall. But I have priority plus Her Dair stabbs. Its not really that big of a hit box. So that's makes up for the small hit box thus makes both attacks able clash. First one to the punch gets the hit unharmed

 

[Kinzer]

Hmm...but I still think that Sonic can win, because for all you know you don't know what I'll do from a distance. I could go ahead and do a Hyphened Usmash, but I don't have too. I could change up my game to keep you on your toes, which is what Sonic is good for, whereas if I see you hovering over the ground a little distance I know what to except (sort of).

*Ding*, well, that's the end of my arguement, do you have anything on your end?

 

[aeghrur]

Stages people?
Ban, counterpick, good neutrals? :O

 

[Kinzer]

Don't take Peach to Japes.

Just, don't.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Don't go to battlefield either. I recommend Final destination and smashville.
Not Rainow cruise.
Green greens is okay I guess.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Hmm...but I still think that Sonic can win, because for all you know you don't know what I'll do from a distance. I could go ahead and do a Hyphened Usmash, but I don't have too. I could change up my game to keep you on your toes, which is what Sonic is good for, whereas if I see you hovering over the ground a little distance I know what to except (sort of).

*Ding*, well, that's the end of my arguement, do you have anything on your end?

You are pretty much talking about the average Peach game. Like when I play peach dittos, I know what to expect. I play them way to much. When a Peach has a turnip and runs to me, usually they will throw it in the air and come at me with a fair. So what I do? I just run under then and upsmash then. or up-ar/up-B. This is just an example but yea.

Also dont always excpect the same thing from players. Though I think i am the only one who does ******** things with Peach. I could go to you from the air, then land and do nothing at all. Wait for a small reaction from you then punish. or I could land near you then walk away for no reason, and see if you would chase me with an attack so you are open and I punish. But then again not many people play that ******** or risky with Peach so you are safe

As For stages. Sonic is good at killing Peach off the side. So stages like Halberd would do or coneria maybe. Green Greens too.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Green Greens for peach.

Any stage with narrow side boundaries.

 

[Kinzer]

Alright then, thanks for clarifying some stuff with me and telling us where to take Peach.

I'm going to see if I can think of any other crap that hasn't been mentioned yet and hasn't been said yet...*hmm...*

Ah yes, you probably want to use Usmash a lot more here I think...You know what happened when I hyphened Usmash and a Peach busted out a Toad to punish it?

I went right through here, and the multi-hitbox outlasted the duration of the Toad and hit Peach.

Usmash is awesome.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Also dont always excpect the same thing from players. Though I think i am the only one who does ******** things with Peach. I could go to you from the air, then land and do nothing at all. Wait for a small reaction from you then punish. or I could land near you then walk away for no reason, and see if you would chase me with an attack so you are open and I punish. But then again not many people play that ******** or risky with Peach so you are safe

Dark, that isn't ******** in the slightest. It's taking a risk and messing with your opponent - I do stuff like that all the time to people. It doesn't always work but when it does, the results are always good (especially if it's grabbing a Wario

Kinzer, Sonic's Up Smash might beat out Peachs Dair but that isn't going to win Sonic the match. Peach has more priority, more range, a projectile, better aerials and a counter. You can't use Up Smash in the air and what's stopping me from Floating, baiting you into an Up Smash, double jumping away and hitting you with a Fair?

Sonic has a lot of tricks up his sleeve that can keep her guessing which is why this match up isn't horrible. But Peach can simply overwhelm him with priority, get in close and beat him up

As for stages, anything with a low ceiling is good. Corneria is a good stage against Peach because of it's incredibly low ceiling

 

[Kinzer]

I know it won't win the match, but knowing is half the battle.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*takes that ****ing paintbrush off you and ***** you round the head*

 

[ShadowLink84]

*****?
You've been... watching stuff...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*****?
You've been... watching stuff...

...eh?

**** over here means to hit someone really hard or it's a rude way of calling someone an idiot
...I don't know if I want to know what your meaning of it is >.>

 

[Espy Rose]

...eh?

**** over here means to hit someone really hard or it's a rude way of calling someone an idiot
...I don't know if I want to know what your meaning of it is >.>

lol explicit.

I always used **** as an insult myself, although I almost never use it anyways.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

weird, i thought you could talk only about sonic in the sonic boards

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*quickly runs in*

This is a Match up Thread. Here, the Sonic mains talk about other characters and how to fight them. As you can see, they're currently discussing Peach. They're talking about how to deal with her, what to watch out for etc. All character boards have a thread like this somewhere

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

how does sonic fair against her then?