Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[ChikoLad]

No, it'd have to be much, much, MUCH worse to be another Sonic 06. Anyone who thinks the Wii U game is just as or even worse then Sonic 06 should really be reminded just how bad Sonic 06 was. And I don't mean just the glitches.

The glitches and overall lack of polish this game has are WORSE than '06, though.

There's even a glitch that allows you to access a HIGHER QUALITY GRAPHICS SETTING. But the game's frame rate is atrocious WITHOUT this being active.

There's even been reports of missing textures and other crap like that.

This turd is less polished than '06. Easily.

 

[SonicMario]

Glitches alone weren't the sole problem with 06. Everything from the story, and too many gameplay styles that were almost all messed up in some way were also huge problems. Compared to 06, Rise of Lyric is still fairly playable if a bit of a medicore platform game. And while there are different gameplay styles. There's at least four (The Main Characters themselves) that work fairly well. When in 06 Sonic and Blaze were the only decent characters playable, and even then Sonic and Blaze's gameplay was far from perfect.

I'm willing to say Rise of Lyric is possibly the worst Sonic game since 06. But the fact it's not even a Main spin-off game and only as a cash-in for a seperate series not part of the Main game series (Not what was supposed to be a Main game and possible reboot that Sonic 06 was trying to be) alone by conception makes it still far and away from being as bad as Sonic 06 was.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Those videos got worse and worse. The drowning sounds were too good though.

BRHLRHLBABAHYRL

 

[ChikoLad]

Glitches alone weren't the sole problem with 06. Everything from the story, and too many gameplay styles that were almost all messed up in some way were also huge problems. Compared to 06, Rise of Lyric is still fairly playable if a bit of a medicore platform game. And while there are different gameplay styles. There's at least four (The Main Characters themselves) that work fairly well. When in 06 Sonic and Blaze were the only decent characters playable, and even then Sonic and Blaze's gameplay was far from perfect.

I'm willing to say Rise of Lyric is possibly the worst Sonic game since 06. But the fact it's not even a Main spin-off game and only as a cash-in for a seperate series not part of the Main game series (Not what was supposed to be a Main game and possible reboot that Sonic 06 was trying to be) alone by conception makes it still far and away from being as bad as Sonic 06 was.

Rise of Lyric still had VERY high expectations, arguably more so than '06. It's developed by ex-Naughty Dog veterans. Naughty Dog is one of the most well respected development studios in the world (more than modern Sonic Team). Bob Rafei, one of the leading members of the RoL dev team, was "employee #1" at Naughty Dog, and he is the man who gave birth to Crash Bandicoot, Jak & Daxter, and Uncharted (the latter being his last project with them as far as I am aware). Pretty much every single game this man has made has been met with universal critical acclaim.

And somehow, they **** this turd out.

However, even without that, '06 wasn't this bad. '06 didn't have a consistently terrible frame rate (only when you started breaking stuff did it drop). '06 didn't allow you to infinitely jump using the pause screen as SOON as you get into normal control. '06 didn't have missing textures. '06 didn't have game breaking bugs that forced you to reset the game to continue. '06 didn't allow you to access a better graphics setting through a glitch, a setting that clearly is not ready to be playable considering how the game is normally.

'06 had a lot of glitches, but none of them were this game breaking or bizarre, they either had to be searched for, or they simply made things more awkward. But there was some fun to be had. Shadow's character development in particular was really good in '06. Meanwhile, we have this gem in RoL:

 

[kataridragon]

No spins match w/ platforms. Hmm that sounds like a good challenge for me too break the spin habit. Even against CPUs this should work itself out.

 

[SonicMario]

Rise of Lyric still had VERY high expectations, arguably more so than '06. It's developed by ex-Naughty Dog veterans. Naughty Dog is one of the most well respected development studios in the world (more than modern Sonic Team). Bob Rafei, one of the leading members of the RoL dev team, was "employee #1" at Naughty Dog, and he is the man who gave birth to Crash Bandicoot, Jak & Daxter, and Uncharted (the latter being his last project with them as far as I am aware). Pretty much every single game this man has made has been met with universal critical acclaim.

And somehow, they **** this turd out.

I don't think so. There was always a lot more scepticism regarding Boom then there was for 06. Back then when it was new maybe it was a little more superficial like the redesigns done to Sonic and Knuckles. And while the ex-Naughty Dog members may have hyped the game a little more. There's another Sonic game that was the same way when people thought there was no way they could screw it up based on their reputation with Sonic Chronicles. I think generally the fanbase has learned it's lesson in hyping up the games since then. And it came in full force with Boom. Generally from what I've seen it was quite a bit of cautious optimism. People were hoping for something good from this, but also understood it could go wrong. And it looks like going wrong it did. And besides that, we were told very soon after the game was revealed that this was just going to be it's own little side universe that won't take over the Main series. Meanwhile Sonic 06 is part of the Main Series and it was hyped up as the next-gen experience that would redefine the Sonic series to a whole new level

However, even without that, '06 wasn't this bad.

without that, '06 wasn't this bad.

'06 wasn't this bad.

No, no, no, no, NO.

I am done here. I'm sorry, but if you really think Rise of Lyric is worse then 06. Then I don't think you understand just how bad Sonic 06 was to the Sonic franchise as a whole then whatever Rise of Lyric is doing.

Try watching this 7-part Review of Sonic 06 to get what I mean. It's three hours long. But that just means this guy barely leaves any problem big or small out of the review. If you want to understand my point of view on this, you have to see this guy's review. There's so many problems with Sonic 06 that it would take hours just to type it all up. This review series is the closest to covering everything wrong with the game. I would like to see anyone try to say as many problems with Sonic Boom other then "LOLZ GLITCHES"

Any claim that any other Sonic game is as bad or worse then Sonic 06 is BULL****.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't think so. There was always a lot more scepticism regarding Boom then there was for 06. Back then when it was new maybe it was a little more superficial like the redesigns done to Sonic and Knuckles. And while the ex-Naughty Dog members may have hyped the game a little more. There's another Sonic game that was the same way when people thought there was no way they could screw it up based on their reputation with Sonic Chronicles. I think generally the fanbase has learned it's lesson in hyping up the games since then. And it came in full force with Boom. Generally from what I've seen it was quite a bit of cautious optimism. People were hoping for something good from this, but also understood it could go wrong. And it looks like going wrong it did. And besides that, we were told very soon after the game was revealed that this was just going to be it's own little side universe that won't take over the Main series. Meanwhile Sonic 06 is part of the Main Series and it was hyped up as the next-gen experience that would redefine the Sonic series to a whole new level





No, no, no, no, NO.

I am done here. I'm sorry, but if you really think Rise of Lyric is worse then 06. Then I don't think you understand just how bad Sonic 06 was to the Sonic franchise as a whole then whatever Rise of Lyric is doing.

Try watching this 7-part Review of Sonic 06 to get what I mean. It's three hours long. But that just means this guy barely leaves any problem big or small out of the review. If you want to understand my point of view on this, you have to see this guy's review. There's so many problems with Sonic 06 that it would take hours just to type it all up. This review series is the closest to covering everything wrong with the game. I would like to see anyone try to say as many problems with Sonic Boom other then "LOLZ GLITCHES"

Any claim that any other Sonic game is as bad or worse then Sonic 06 is BULL****.

If you seriously think this isn't at least on the same level of awful as '06, you are completely delusional.

To emphasise - it took people YEARS to find any sort of sequencing breaking bugs in Sonic '06. And they are incredibly complicated to pull off.

It took people TWO DAYS to find a sequence breaking bug in Rise of Lyric, making it possible to complete the game in an hour. And it's REALLY EASY TO DO.

If that does not convince you, you are blind. Stop trying to defend this game, it's terrible and nobody should buy it in it's current state.

Not even SEGA has any confidence in it - review copies were not sent out until public release, and they have not being marketing the game a whole lot in the run up to it's release.

 

[SonicMario]

If you seriously think this isn't at least on the same level of awful as '06, you are completely delusional.

To emphasise - it took people YEARS to find any sort of sequencing breaking bugs in Sonic '06. And they are incredibly complicated to pull off.

It took people TWO DAYS to find a sequence breaking bug in Rise of Lyric, making it possible to complete the game in an hour. And it's REALLY EASY TO DO.

If that does not convince you, you are blind. Stop trying to defend this game, it's terrible and nobody should buy it in it's current state.

Not even SEGA has any confidence in it - review copies were not sent out until public release, and they have not being marketing the game a whole lot in the run up to it's release.

I am not defending Rise of Lyric and saying it's a good game. You are putting words in my mouth if you think I'm trying to say it's a good game.

Compared to Sonic 06 though, it's a great game.

Regardless of sequence breaking glitches. Sonic Boom was already pretty short enough to begin with. There are playthroughs that are only 8 parts long. While Sonic 06 requires alot more even if the person knows what they're doing. It will take more then the sequence breaking of a game that's already pretty short enough and even some of the other glitches in the game to convince me this is anywhere near Sonic 06's level of bad. I'm beginning to think that you think that a game can only be as bad as how many glitches there are. When Sonic 06 is bad on other parts of the game that Sonic Boom was at least decent in that are also plenty important for game design. From the story, characterization (For the exception of Shadow and Knuckles), gameplay, art direction, and overall enjoyment level. It's far better then Sonic 06.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

The game is bad. If you didn't realize this by the first time they showed a video for this game, then you're a delusional sonic fan. At no point did this game ever look like it would be good.

Anyways, moving on. I obviously want to play smash 4 on wii u. I still don't own the system because honestly, I think it's a piece of ****. I'm probably going to buy it anyways, but would like someone to try to sell me on it.

I don't care for nintendos same generic crop of games they put on every system, outside of the Zelda franchise. Looking for games that hopefully have good online co-op options, or single player games with a very good story to suck me in(RPG/Adventure).

From what I've seen, it's mostly uninspiring platformers and games that are better served renting, as they offer no real replay value. Games like that Mario game where you make stages interests me if it has the option for online play. Can anyone confirm? Xenoblade and splatoon look awesome as well.

None of these games are out though, so I'm wondering if I'm missing anything.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well there's always mario kart 8 which should be getting new DLC any day now. I know you've said you aren't really interested in the platformers but Super Mario 3D World i feel would be the best game for you to get if you have a bunch of friends with you to play, as the game is a blast with 4 people. (That and Champions Road is the most infuriating level I've had to beat in a mario game in awhile) as well as Bayonetta 2 which comes with Bayonetta 1 for free. Hyrule Warriors is fun and so far seems to be getting a hefty amount of additional content atm as well.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Well there's always mario kart 8 which should be getting new DLC any day now. I know you've said you aren't really interested in the platformers but Super Mario 3D World i feel would be the best game for you to get if you have a bunch of friends with you to play, as the game is a blast with 4 people. (That and Champions Road is the most infuriating level I've had to beat in a mario game in awhile) as well as Bayonetta 2 which comes with Bayonetta 1 for free. Hyrule Warriors is fun and so far seems to be getting a hefty amount of additional content atm as well.

Yeah I just don't have the time for couch co-op. This is one of my major gripes with Nintendo. It's 2014. Give me the option to play online with friends. I played and enjoyed the first Bayonetta. It falls into the rental category though. It's not a long game and doesn't offer any huge reason to replay. So, I couldn't see myself ever buying Bayonetta 2. Hyrule Warriors would be a for sure buy if it had online co-op. Like.. All of the other Dynasty Warriors game have. Nintendo baffles me with their idiotic approach to multiplayer games. Mario Kart would presumably be a for sure buy, though I know going in, I'll never find it as good as double dash. It baffles me how this console has been out for so long, but offers so little. It's like they hate making money. Still waiting on that smash wii u bundle Nintendo.

 

[kataridragon]

Hmmm. Here is a list of reasons to buy a wii u.

Smash bros.
Best internet app.
Cheaper.
Nintendo games (general)
Xenoblade.

Personally I don't care much for most of the so called "blockbuster" and "AAA" games. They are usually overhyped and lame. However with a Nintendo console you can guarantee quality and design. Albeit they milk mario a little to much sometimes. I also have old school tastes and the rest of the market doesn't fulfill my thirst.

But that is just my taste and opinion on games. That's why I buy Nintendo.

HIPSTER SONIC, HIPSTER, HIPSTER SONIC!
(Gotta watch black nerd comedy)

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Do people still use internet apps on game systems? I just assumed everyone owned a laptop by now, seeing as you can get one for like 200-400 dollars. My major gripe I think with the wii u is that it's not nearly cheap enough. For a system that's much weaker than other current gen systems, is notorious for poor online play and has a lot less to offer in variety of games, I can't believe it's not like 200-250 by now.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonicbrawler is pretty crazy. Thinks that Boom can be any worse than the travesty of '06.
At least now I have something to watch. Thanks SM.

 

[ROOOOY!]

'06 didn't have game breaking bugs that forced you to reset the game to continue.

Have you played this game?

Edit: in regards to that whole paragraph, and pretty much your whole argument, have you played this game? Every problem you mentioned with RoL (which I didn't realise was released) is more abundant, and more of a problem in '06. You can infinite jump with Sonic using the purple (?) gem. Implying any Sonic game was worse or equal, new or old, is crazy. Even if some weren't enjoyable, they weren't broken beyond the point of actually being able to play and progress through the game. You don't have to search for bugs or glitches, they slap you in the face at every turn to kill you, usually in the parts of the game you don't have any control over.

Sonic '06 isn't just the worst Sonic game I've ever played, or even seen played. Really confusing bare-bones Atari games at least have their excuses, where video games were new. Sonic '06 is the worst game of all time.

 

[kataridragon]

Do people still use internet apps on game systems? I just assumed everyone owned a laptop by now, seeing as you can get one for like 200-400 dollars. My major gripe I think with the wii u is that it's not nearly cheap enough. For a system that's much weaker than other current gen systems, is notorious for poor online play and has a lot less to offer in variety of games, I can't believe it's not like 200-250 by now.

Less variety in games? Maybe compared to a ps3 or a 360. It's backward compatible with wii games and has arguably the best downloadable retro games. I think that speaks volumes. Just saying. I mean if you like your shooters and your madden by all means buy an Xone or a ps4. Realistic movie like games isn't my thing.

I wouldn't say the wii u has bad online. Nintendo just doesn't have an easy friend matching system set up. Which I agree does kinda suck. But the online play itself is as good as anything else.

Also youtube on my wii u is so nice. The gamepad really shines when using the internet. I swear it's awesome I use it all the time. Yes I have a laptop. But using the gamepad and watching on screen is sweet.

Your complaining about price? Ps4 and Xbox ones are $400. A wii u is like $250.

It's really preference. I'm just pointing out the better things about a wii u.

 

[BlitznBurst]

lmfao Rise of Lyric is easily just as bad as 06, and in many respects is worse than it. The art direction, the music, the badly animated cutscenes, the hilariously bad attempts at "humour," the multitude of game breaking glitches and oversights. At least 06 stayed relatively faithful to the characters instead of turning them all into ****ty caricatures of themselves. Literally the only thing RoL actually has over 06 is not having as much edgy grimdark bull****, but even then that doesn't actually make it any less badly written outside of Eggman's scenes (shoutout to Mike Pollock for being an amazing voice actor and the game's only saving grace, by the way). I also suffered through 06 and I can easily say that RoL is just as bad. At least 06 had some nice music to distract me from the pain.

Shattered Crystal is probably going to get perfect reviews for staying true to the "classic Sonic spirit," though, because most reviewers are ******** and seem to think that 3D=bad and 2D=good as far as Sonic is concerned.

 

[Jaguar360]

Sonic's music in the Wii U version:

1. Green Hill
2. Angel Island (remix)
3. Open Your Heart
4. Escape from the City
5. Live and Learn
6. Sonic Heroes
7. His World (instrumental)
8. Seven Rings in Hand
9. Reach for the Stars
10. ROOFTOP RUN
11. Wonder World
12. Windy Hill 1

No Sonic Boom or Sonic R music makes me sad, though. Also, why cut Scrap Brain and Emerald Hill?

Also, no new remixes..

Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! AMAZING!!!!!
Really though, that's an awesome list of songs. I seriously love every one of them! I don't really mind Scrap Brain, Emerald Hill, Right There, Ride On, or Super Sonic Racing being removed (they are all good songs though), but Sonic Boom being gone is pretty unfortunate for me. Rooftop Run is probably my favorite addition out of these (and apparently we're getting the Sonic Generations version!).

 

[SonicMario]

At least 06 stayed relatively faithful to the characters

HAHAHAHAHA

No. Especially in regards to Sonic himself.

 

[BlitznBurst]

HAHAHAHAHA

No. Especially in regards to Sonic himself.

The key word there was "relatively." As in, relative to Rise of Lyric.

In other news, the music selection for Sonic continues to be ****ing awful.

It's like they deliberately went out of their way to choose the worst possible tracks.
(unless this is fake in which case I'm a moron)

EDIT: I'm a moron

 

[SonicMario]

Regardless, I think the response is more from people wanting this game to be the 2nd coming of Sonic 06 when it isn't. Yes the glitches are terrible. Yes there are some odd coincidences like Time travel being a part of a plot in both games and some degree of developmental hell.

But there's still enough differences between the two that they're still on completely different levels of bad. Sonic Boom can be ignored as much as any of those Licensed games based off of Kids Movies that are just medicore cash-ins. We have to go on knowing Sonic 06 was meant to be part of the Main series. Like Sega thought it was a good idea for a new direction to take the entire series. Sonic Boom is not a new direction, it's only a branch of the franchise that will appeal to much younger fans while we still await the next Main Sonic game. Lost World is still the most recent Main Sonic game, so we're still waiting for what the next main game has in store. (The whole Sonic Runners thing was found to be part of Sega's Mobile division so Sonic Runners is certainly not the next main Sonic game).

It's still generally possible as well to go through Rise of Lyric without experiencing so many glitches and finish it with a couple of sittings over one weekend. While completing Sonic 06 all the way through even if you're good at the game takes a while and assuming the glitches in the game don't take all your lives and make you start over the entire beginning of the game in Wave Ocean or do all the Trials again if you lose all your lives in Kingdom Valley cause the game doesn't autosave at moments where it should.

 

[ChikoLad]

Have you played this game?

Edit: in regards to that whole paragraph, and pretty much your whole argument, have you played this game? Every problem you mentioned with RoL (which I didn't realise was released) is more abundant, and more of a problem in '06. You can infinite jump with Sonic using the purple (?) gem. Implying any Sonic game was worse or equal, new or old, is crazy. Even if some weren't enjoyable, they weren't broken beyond the point of actually being able to play and progress through the game. You don't have to search for bugs or glitches, they slap you in the face at every turn to kill you, usually in the parts of the game you don't have any control over.

Sonic '06 isn't just the worst Sonic game I've ever played, or even seen played. Really confusing bare-bones Atari games at least have their excuses, where video games were new. Sonic '06 is the worst game of all time.

Do you honestly think I WANT to pick up this game after seeing the state it's in?

Also I'm well aware of the purple gem in '06, but the purple gem is an optional upgrade you purchase with the in-game currency, and the game does nothing to inform you when it's available. It also only shows up around the end of Sonic's story, and cannot be used in Shadow's, Sliver's, or the Last Story. It's still stupid and unacceptable, but there are many players who have finished '06, but have never touched the purple gem. It's also not connected to any sequence breaking that allows you to beat the game really quickly. The sequence breaking in Sonic '06 is similar in nature to the sequence breaks used by Ocarina of Time speedrunners - it involves the tricking the game into loading you into certain points when it shouldn't be, by performing elaborate tricks. It took years to figure this stuff out, and requires a lot of precision. Furthermore, separate sequence breaks had to be searched for in each individual story, due to how the game is structured.

RoL's infinite jump glitch can be done at any time as long as you play as Knuckles. And since you first play as Knuckles just a few minutes in, you can then skip the entire game from that point on. Literally all you have to do is jump, pause the game, unpause, jump again, ad infinitum. You can do this forever, and because of the open-world nature of the game, you can get from area to area really quickly and get to the end of the game. Literally anyone can do it.

Sonic '06 is the worst game of all time.

No it isn't. It is my personal least favourite game, yeah (though if I played RoL it would change), but it is not the worst game of all time, I can think of many more. Especially since Sonic '06 DOES have redeeming qualities - mainly that the level design is actually fairly good in Sonic's story. This has been proven through Generations PC mods. And through the runs of Sonic '06 I have had where I didn't encounter it's glitches too much.

I have gotten every achievement in Sonic '06. I have all of the DLC for it. And I did not enjoy doing so. But it gives me unquestionable right to say another game is worse than it, and RoL is without a second thought, in it's current state.

With that, I leave you with this:

An announcement screenshot

Actual game

Furthermore:

After I saw DsS's video of this glitch yesterday morning, I couldn't resist playing with it once I finished the game, and I spent some time experimenting to see just how much of the game was skippable with it. Once I confirmed you could skip the vast majority of the game, it made me curious exactly how long it would take to actually complete it, and... here we are. This is only my fourth time beating the game; my first time finishing the game ever was only a few hours before I did this run, my second time was the experimentation playthrough, and the third was another speedrun attempt (which also came in at barely under an hour - 0:59).

Taking that into account, as well as the fact that the game has only been out for two days, and it's pretty clear this time has a LOT of room for improvement left. I did not know the last two stages very well, and I suspect both that there's more places where the Knuckles glitch can save time, as well as places where I did use it but it would've been faster to just do things normally. On top of that there's plenty of mistakes and a couple instances where I missed a faster route through a level. I'm mainly uploading this because it's a lot of fun to show off regardless and a lot of people seem to be interested in it.

 

[ROOOOY!]

My point wasn't about the fact you can exploit RoL and finish it quick. That is a choice. It was that you can't physically get through 06 during normal play (not trying to exploit anything) smoothly, or in my case at all, because youre constantly bombarded with glitches that will kill you. Whilst neither of us have played RoL, we can't assume that the same can be said for this game. Sure, there's dumb stuff like texture problems from the videos I saw, but I'd guess you can get through this more easily if you're playing the game as it's intended to be played.

 

[ChikoLad]

My point wasn't about the fact you can exploit RoL and finish it quick. That is a choice. It was that you can't physically get through 06 during normal play (not trying to exploit anything) smoothly, or in my case at all, because youre constantly bombarded with glitches that will kill you. Whilst neither of us have played RoL, we can't assume that the same can be said for this game. Sure, there's dumb stuff like texture problems from the videos I saw, but I'd guess you can get through this more easily if you're playing the game as it's intended to be played.

I've literally posted a video in this thread of a glitch that forces you to reset the game by spawning you outside of the fighting arena you died in, but cannot re-enter.

Also it is possible to go through '06 smoothly. Again, I've 100%'d the thing. Those S Ranks didn't come by luck.

 

[SonicMario]

I don't understand how one sequence breaking of a game that's already short enough to beat in one weekend makes it worse then a game that forces it's long load times, buggy levels, multiple gameplay types where only like one or two of them work well some of the time, and terrible story on you for a really lengthy amount of time.

Yes it's easier to do compared to most sequence breaking glitches. But it still stands that the game doesn't take that long to beat to begin with.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't understand how one sequence breaking of a game that's already short enough to beat in one weekend makes it worse then a game that forces it's long load times, buggy levels, multiple gameplay types where only like one or two of them work well some of the time, and terrible story on you for a really lengthy amount of time.

Yes it's easier to do compared to most sequence breaking glitches. But it still stands that the game doesn't take that long to beat to begin with.

And how is that a good thing?

The point is that the game has glitch that allows you to skip most of it's content (and you will likely want to since the game overall doesn't look impressive at all). Whether or not the game is already short is irrelevant.

Sonic '06 also doesn't take especially long either. I can beat any of the three main stories in 4 or 5 hours. Without exploits or anything.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Kay I missed that video the first time. That's pretty dumb.

Lots and lots of trial and error for 100%? I'm not trying to troll I promise, I just don't know how anyone can get through a level (especially those parts where you can't stop going forward) without getting glitch killed at least a couple of times.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's k Roy. I think sb is just on an absurd mission to convince people of something that's honestly bogus.

 

[SonicMario]

And how is that a good thing?

The point is that the game has glitch that allows you to skip most of it's content (and you will likely want to since the game overall doesn't look impressive at all). Whether or not the game is already short is irrelevant.

Sonic '06 also doesn't take especially long either. I can beat any of the three main stories in 4 or 5 hours. Without exploits or anything.

I'm not saying it's a good thing per se. But here's a proposition. Say there's someone that have played neither of the two games and they want a Sonic game to rent and their only choices are Rise of Lyric and Sonic 06.

Would they want one you could finish a game over the weekend even when they're entirely new at it or at least want to try that Knuckles glitch for ****s and giggles if they've heard of it to beat the game within just one hour?

Or would they rather have Sonic 06 that drags on and on, and sometimes you could make you do-over sections of the game that take a half-an-hour (Ex: Doing the trials again if you lose all your lives in Kingdom Valley in Sonic's story) or more if you die alot on certain levels.

From that point of view, Rise of Lyric is quite a bit more friendly to the player. You aren't going to be doing over huge sections of the game if you fail.

 

[BlitznBurst]

Being a "spinoff" doesn't justify Boom being awful. It had a $20 million budget and three years to be developed. It was meant to be part of the brand new super amazing branch of the Sonic franchise that would draw in tons of new fans and totally motivate people to watch the show (which unfortunately is probably going to take a lot of flak for this as well despite actually being pretty good). It should absolutely be held up to the same standards that a mains series Sonic game would be, especially considering it had a team of ex-Naughty Dog employees (who apparently are ex-employees for a reason) that would surely make sure the game was great. At worst it should have been a generic action-adventure-platformer with nothing particularly noteworthy but still kind of a fun time waster, not a buggy mess like it turned out to be.

That said, neither RoL or Sonic 06 are anywhere near being the worst games ever. The quality vs budget/hype ratio is certainly worse than most, but even then there are still plenty of games that come to mind as being worse.

 

[ROOOOY!]

It's k Roy. I think sb is just on an absurd mission to convince people of something that's honestly bogus.

Everywhere is dumb. I might read for laughs, but I'm not replying in that competitive character discussion thread again. In summary:

'serious debator' : sonic is OP bess charac evur! he 2 fass and i cant punish and his fsmash can kill at 150+
me: fsmash is bad
'sd' : omg y u not be specific.

****. Off.

 

[SonicMario]

a generic action-adventure-platformer with nothing particularly noteworthy

This is actually what it is though. The videos on the bugs are blowing it a little too out of proportion.

 

[Espy Rose]

Everywhere is dumb. I might read for laughs, but I'm not replying in that competitive character discussion thread again. In summary:

'serious debator' : sonic is OP bess charac evur! he 2 fass and i cant punish and his fsmash can kill at 150+
me: fsmash is bad
'sd' : omg y u not be specific.

****. Off.

I know. It's giving me a headache.

 

[BlitznBurst]

Wouldn't it be cool if Windy Hill had a Bayonetta song on it. The chances of Bayonetta herself ever appearing in the franchise are near enough zero, considering what happened to Tharja's trophy, but some music would be a nice nod to the franchise, considering how Nintendo's been hyping Bayonetta 2 up a fair amount, probably more than Sonic himself. Let's Dance Boys woudl totally be the only song I would ever play if it got in.

Admittedly I'm not entirely sure who actually owns the Bayonetta IP since some people say Platinum owns it while others say it's still owned by SEGA.

 

[ChikoLad]

Kay I missed that video the first time. That's pretty dumb.

Lots and lots of trial and error for 100%? I'm not trying to troll I promise, I just don't know how anyone can get through a level (especially those parts where you can't stop going forward) without getting glitch killed at least a couple of times.

I certainly had glitches effect me a few times but the most common ones I found ways around. For example, performing Homing Attacks onto rails from below made you get stuck to them. You would still move along them, but you couldn't jump. And since some rails end abruptly, this could lead to death.

However, it was something I could adapt to easily. Unacceptable, but '06 didn't have too many unavoidable glitches really. Honestly, there were more glitches I used to help me than ones that killed me (like the aforementioned Purple Gem).

Also keep in mind that I was 12-13 years old. I got the game on release, and would have 100%'d it well into 2007. So Sonic '06 is not something that people can't play through and beat.

And in case anyone believes I am lying about getting all of the achievements in '06, here is my old Gamertag from years ago:

http://www.xboxgamertag.com/search/SonicBrawler95/

(I have no idea why it says the last year I played it on was "1753", at exactly midnight on 1st of January. I have not touched my original Xbox 360 in years, so I don't know if someone was messing around with the date on it, or if maybe the date I last played it on was around before this website existed, and this happens to be the default date)

I'm not saying it's a good thing per se. But here's a proposition. Say there's someone that have played neither of the two games and they want a Sonic game to rent and their only choices are Rise of Lyric and Sonic 06.

Would they want one you could finish a game over the weekend even when they're entirely new at it or at least want to try that Knuckles glitch for ****s and giggles if they've heard of it to beat the game within just one hour?

Or would they rather have Sonic 06 that drags on and on, and sometimes you could make you do-over sections of the game that take a half-an-hour (Ex: Doing the trials again if you lose all your lives in Kingdom Valley in Sonic's story) or more if you die alot on certain levels.

From that point of view, Rise of Lyric is quite a bit more friendly to the player. You aren't going to be doing over huge sections of the game if you fail.

Actually, I'd easily recommend '06 over RoL, for the following reasons:

-At it's core, the game plays like a Sonic game. Sonic '06 is essentially Sonic Adventure 3 in all but name. And like I said before, Sonic's levels in '06 are actually well designed (unpolished =/= badly designed). Not all of them are, but in general, Sonic's levels don't have an overabundance of combat, they are over within 3 or 4 minutes and don't drag, they have a lot of routes to take and are highly explorable most of the time, meaning they are replayable should you like them enough (Tropical Jungle in particular gets a gold star for this).

-It has more relevance to the series as a whole. Especially since it is represented in Sonic Generations, and even Smash Bros.

-Shadow's story (not his levels) is actually very good in my opinion, and outside of SA2 and the Japanese Sonic X, '06 is the best representation of his character, and is leagues above RoL's 2edgy5me representation of him that's worse than even his own titular game. It really felt like the most natural development of his character after SA2, with Heroes and ShTH only being unnecessary road blocks to this milestone in his development, due to the whole amnesia thing.

-If you wanted to see the game Silver debuted in and learn about him first hand (and Silver's story isn't COMPLETE garbage either), this is the game where you play to do it.

-Even if you cannot agree with the above points, you cannot deny that, if nothing else, '06 is an excellent history lesson - this is Sonic Team's lowest point (in conjunction with Sonic Genesis). This is the game that convinced Sonic Team to get their **** together (Sonic Team was entirely restructured after '06, with a lot of new employees fresh out of college developing Unleashed), so something good did come of the game. To see what caused them to do this first hand is pretty significant, for a Sonic fan. RoL, on the other hand, was made by a Western studio. If anything, it's just gonna convince SEGA to not let any other Western developers near Sonic, at least not for a while. Which is actually a huge shame, especially considering that many recent mobile Sonic games, that are very good, were made by a Western studio. Specifically, the remakes of Sonic 1, 2, and CD - these three remakes are the definitive versions of each title (the Sonic 2 remake even brought back the long lost Hidden Palace Zone), and are made by a Western team, headed by Taxman and Stealth of Sonic Retro. It was a lot of people's hope that those guys would be able to go on to make a brand new entry in the Classic series, but RoL may genuinely diminish any hope of that - simply because Iizuka (the producer of the Sonic series right now) is not going to trust Western developers - especially since Iizuka did not like Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric BEFORE release (there was a Japanese Stream before the game came out that was not heavily publicised, in which he reacted quite badly to certain segments of the game).

So yeah, I'd easily recommend '06 over RoL right now, especially since '06 is dirt cheap, while RoL costs as much as Smash Wii U.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Someone needs to play Sonic 06 again.

It's worse than you remember.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I know. It's giving me a headache.

Funny how things change, isn't it?

Brawl : sonic is bottom 5. STFU anyone who actually knows the character.
Sm4sh : sonic is top 5. PLEASE TALK TO US.

No.

 

[ChikoLad]

Someone needs to play Sonic 06 again.

It's worse than you remember.

I've actually played it quite recently, as well as a Sonic Generations mod that ports levels from Sonic '06 into the Generations engine.

The level design for Sonic's levels was totally fine. They were just very unpolished from a technical standpoint. And the core mechanics of '06 were also unpolished. In the Generations engine, they play fine, and are a lot of fun. Because the DESIGN of them was very good. Not perfect, but still very good.

For a visual example of this:

Also, fun fact - this Wave Ocean mod was made by the same person who did that 51 minute run of RoL that I posted earlier.

 

[BlitznBurst]

Someone needs to play Sonic 06 again.

It's worse than you remember.

Why is this always the assumption. "You've never played the game," "you just forgot how bad it was." Frankly it's just a ****ty way to invalidate the other person's without having to actually pay attention to what they're saying. You might as well just say "you're wrong lol" for all it actually contributes to the discussion. I've played through 06 multiple times and know full well how bad it is, and Rise of Lyric matched that in every way. I've honestly been ****ed over by something completely out of my control more times in Rise of Lyric than I have in 06, and at least when I did get screwed over in 06 I didn't have to restart a level that ranges from anywhere between five minutes to ****ing half an hour.

Maybe on a purely objective level when you see nothing but ones and zeroes and completely disregard anything that might require a shred of subjectivity Rise of Lyric is a more well-made game than Sonic 06 (though in regards to certain things like the game's environments, cutscenes, and music, 06 still absolutely has it beaten), but in terms of sheer frustration RoL has beaten Sonic 06 tenfold.

edit: also at least 06 could actually keep a steady ****ing framerate. RoL struggles to keep a steady 30fps, despite being less graphically intensive and running on a more powerful console.

I've actually played it quite recently, as well as a Sonic Generations mod that ports levels from Sonic '06 into the Generations engine.

The level design for Sonic's levels was totally fine. They were just very unpolished from a technical standpoint. And the core mechanics of '06 were also unpolished. In the Generations engine, they play fine, and are a lot of fun. Because the DESIGN of them was very good. Not perfect, but still very good.

For a visual example of this:

Also, fun fact - this Wave Ocean mod was made by the same person who did that 51 minute run of RoL that I posted earlier.

Sonic 06 actually has better level design than SA2 did imo

 

[ChikoLad]

^I actually agree completely about Sonic '06 having better level design than SA2.

Heck, it's easier to get S Ranks in '06, despite it's glitches. SA2 was so linear most of the time for the Sonic/Shadow levels, that getting an A Rank often required doing something really particular and asinine. Metal Harbour is a prime example.

With '06, you actually have quite a bit of freedom in how you get your S Rank in most cases. You can just finish the level in a decent time while collecting a respectable amount of rings, you can completely blaze through it, or you can destroy everything in sight (including breakable objects, they give you points).

I don't like SA2 that much at all. It's one of my least favourite Sonic games. '06 is worse overall in my eyes (ruining SONIC's character completely is a bit much for me, besides the obvious). I'm sure I would have loved it when I was a kid, but I played through it for the first time a week before Generations came out (I was on holiday and lucky enough to find a Gamecube copy of it in Strasbourg), since it was the only game with a represented level that I didn't play, and I really didn't enjoy it. In fact, if Sonic '06 simply had a sense of momentum rather than being stiff and the Spin Dash actually did something useful, I'd definitely like it more than SA2. Because it's actually quite glitchy, in a lot of the same ways as '06.

--------

Related, and it has swearing and sincere reference to autism (so if for some reason that triggers you, you may want to avoid) so I'll post a link, but I hope this is made up. If not, RoL truly is an embarrassment.

http://i.imgur.com/q8QamPi.png