Sonic Matchup Export : R.O.B

[Tesh]

As Sonics, we've dealt with our fair share of robots on the wrong side of justice. But this one is from Nintendo! So how do we take down this mechanical monster so we can make it to the final boss?
​

What are our most effective tactics for getting in, getting damage and taking stocks against R.O.B?

What stages does he love, and how do we deal with them?

Where should we take R.O.B. on our CP(s)?

Previously ranked as a 40:60 disadvantage for Sonic, but what do we think now?

 

[Leisha]

Lmao, I love the picture.

Anyway I pretty much play against sonic 70% of the time since my bf mains sonic, so ill chuck in some input soon.

 

[-LzR-]

AKAIK, Rob doesn't really love platforms. So try to have as many as you want like BF
Juggle him the death. Powershield lasers, they suck.
Learn to instatoss gyro.

or something

 

[Heartstring]

vs. r.o.b, i can see this being a relatively even matchup.
as far as i know, sonic is pretty good at juggling characters, and r.o.b is one of the easiest to do it on with his lack of options below him. and r.o.b is going to struggle to gimp sonic with his rather excellent up-b.

however, from what ive seen and played sonic would prefer to stay away from an opponent and nick hits occasionally and get most of his damage from u-throw.
with r.o.bs above average projectiles he will be able to nick away hits from sonic if he decides to be t oo defensive and if it was to go to a timeout game r.o.b would probably be better off
i reckon in a defensive game, r.o.b wins, in an offensive game, sonic probably jsut takes it. as both have trouble killing but he can juggle rob for lots of damage quickly. he can use his speed to grab a r.o.b trying to land onstage
would say 55:45 robs favour

 

[ccst]

The MU is 50:50. None of them can kill, R.O.B. can gimp (but it's really hard to gimp Sonic) but Sonic can juggle. Campy R.O.B.s isn't so effective because of how well Sonic perfect shields everything, and on top of that, he comes to R.O.B. pretty quickly to start an U-throw and a juggle begins. This MU is always funny though, because it takes almost 8 minutes before one wins. xP

 

[Tenki]

Some random tidbits I found from the last time I played a ROB offline:

I don't know about the current m-game but they seem to love trying to use N-airs / B-airs for punish kills on things like airdodges, so if you watch out for that, you can make the match last a really long time lol.

His F-tilt, D-tilt and F-air have quite a bit of distance and D-tilt itself is pretty fast. It might be more player dependent but if the ROB likes doing things like dtilt-dtilt-ftilt and you can shield one of them, instead of immediately trying to punish with an aerial or something, unshield and 'parry' a follow-up tilt with a pshield.

Also, if ROB does anything other than a retreating glide toss, (or a d-throw glide toss), Sonic can actually slide under his item throw with spindash or dash attack, if you're into that lol.

Something about spindash n-air jablock shenanigans here and there, if you're fortunate enough to get it set up...

I might be out of gimmicks for this matchup now lol.

 

[Exceladon City]

I have problems with different ROBs. Like, Mister Eric's ROB never really bugged me too much. Probably because of his proactive playstyle. I've been able to get games off of Eric but against Sil and more recently Sneakytako, I've had a frustrating time. It's probably because of my inability to stay patient against more defensive ROBs.

ROBs Tools in This Match-up:

ROB's projectile game is actually pretty meh to be honest. Like, you can powershield lasers on reaction because of the start up. As far as the gyro goes, running up with a shield takes care of that.

Ground Moves:

The most obnoxious move he has on the ground is Ftilt.

-Ftilt has stupid range and it's faster than most of his other ground moves. Ftilt is so damn annoying. He can pressure your shield with it, it's a great GTFO move and it's a potential kill move. As in ROB will be taking you out of the game around the 170% mark because he has no real kill moves on Sonic.

-Dtilt iirc, clanks with spindash or some shiz. I don't see too many ROBs using this move for much outside of dtilt wall-locks and the occasional tripping.

-Jab is pretty meh. It's like their "I don't have enough time for Ftilt" move. So a barrage of jabs will probably ensue if you're too close to get a left hook to the jaw.

Aerials:

-Nair is gay. Gay. GAY. GAAAAAAAYY!! Like it could be just me, but I feel compelled to try and stop Nair every time I predict it and I get flamed. Every. Single. Time. Without failure. Nair is like ROB's "Uh..." move. If they don't have an answer for something, they'll probably Nair and pray for the best. Since his WHOLE body is a hitbox, he can fast fall this **** and you can (and probably will) be hit by something not producing fire, like his head or something. If they attack your shield with it, mainly a descending Nair, you can Fair OOS to punish. I gave up on shieldgrabbing this ******ry.

-Fair is ROBs other pressure/spacing tool. It's like an aerial Ftilt, except it lacks the range and knockback. Most times it's used like Marth's Fair when pressuring shields. If it's used like that, you can advancing Uair OOS. Fair is also

Spoiler

Chibo's

ROBs "Get off my ledge" tool. So, be expecting this if they love to play ledge games.

I honestly don't think any of Sonic's aerials beats ROBs aerials. Like Bair trades with Nair in some cases, but for the most part, you're pretty much going to have to punish the cooldown on them.

I'm kinda aggressive in this match-up until I get a stock lead. Once that happens, it's basically me running away until they realize that I'm not dying to a stale laser. Uh, I have a negative record against ROB because I either A) Get impatient B) Get impatient or C) Get impatient.

As for stages, you're actually gonna want somewhere kinda open or loaded in obstacles. Since ROB is obviously too slow, he won't be able to chase you once you get the lead.

Recommended Starters:

Smashville
Final Destination
Pokemon Stadium 1

Recommended Counterpicks:

Pictochat
YI: Brawl
Castle Siege (Theory)

Okay, so my theory on Castle Siege is, somewhere that has enough obstacles and space that you'll be able to keep the lead from ROB without much of a problem.

Part 1 of Castle Siege: This isn't a wide open place, but it does enable you to pressure ROB well because he has NOWHERE to run. It's smaller than Smashville, so you can be in ROBs face the moment the announcer says "GO!". Ideally, the position of power on this part of the stage would be by the downward end of the slope on the left side of the stage. It provides a decent amount of protection from lasers and the gyro once you get a lead.

Part 2 of Castle Siege: Wide. Open. Area. The statues nullify the gyro and with multiple platforms, it forces ROB to be proactive and chase Sonic down. If you have the lead, you shouldn't lose it here at all.

Part 3 of Castle Siege: It's basically FD. A midpoint between FD and Smashville. You should be able to run away here as well. Less obstacles to block gyro and to run away on but you still force ROB to do things because you're still free to move around.

Recommended Bans:

Halberd
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar

That's my 0.02.

 

[Tesh]

As far as killing ability I'd say watch out for that Back Air. It automatically retreats ( or approaches). Beware the glidetossed gyro. This projectile actually has enough hitlag to follow up with Smashes, Tilts and Grabs before you even go anywhere.

Keep in mind Sonic can do the same if he gets his hands on a gyro conveniently.

To elaborate on what Tenki said, we do have some footstool setups from from spindash that can help us get free damage and even KOs. With good SDI you might be able to avoid the footstool though.

I'm not 100% on the details but I believe we can ASC/SDJ to footstool and fast fall a back air on R.O.B. Like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f10GiW_oP-4&t=02m00s

 

[Mister Eric]

I have problems with different ROBs. Like, Mister Eric's ROB never really bugged me too much. Probably because of his proactive playstyle. I've been able to get games off of Eric but against Sil and more recently Sneakytako, I've had a frustrating time. It's probably because of my inability to stay patient against more defensive ROBs.

As long as I wins, I'll play crazy forevers!!!!!!!!!
muahahahaha<3

Nahh, I really do need to slow it down in this MU...but I never run into this MU haha.
I wish I had lots to say about it, but I really don't know all that much.

I know that going into it, I like putting my gyro to affect, and definitely stay out of Sonics Killing Zones when im at kill %

With the gyro, I like tossing it down as I glide away when Sonic dashes toward me.
Or I like just having it on the stage in Sonic's way. I feel like I should have a problem with killing Sonic, since you're so fast, and my kill moves are pretty slow and "easily" avoidable.

 

[JayBee]

i havent played a ROB in a while but Sonic has the advantage if he grabs him and sends him upward. get under him and camp his landing with juggles. I didnt' know that you can spindash or dash attack under his glide toss so ill try that. I usually had issues in the past with the tilt spam in particular combinations of dtilt and ftilt to outzone me, then they'd run up real quick and grab me.

One thing I wanted to do if i got a stock lead was to grab thier gyro the next time they throw it, and keep it for basically the whole match while running away from them, using the spins to punish ROB as they try to get you to give it back Lol. ROB without gyro to complement laser is "lol that ain't falco!" and if they are behind they have no choice but to chase you.

the key in this matchup is your ability to powershield and attack well out of it. it makes his moves look safer than they actually are if you can't consistantly do that. since we can't win in the footsie game via tilts and jabs you kinda need to be able to run up in there and pwrshield. punish his landing, juggle for as long as you can, avoid the nair/bair escape attempts by staying under him.

TBH, my philosophy nowadays is becoming less "i have to kill you with my horrible kill moves" and more like, "I just need to rack mad damage and wait for you to either give me the opening, or i just time your *** out" so i would need more exp against ROB again. i played aggro against ROB back then for some reason...

 

[Kinzer]

I didn't know that you can spindash or dash attack under his glide toss so ill try that.

When you can Down-Taunt to avoid a non-angled laser on a straightaway, you throw out any fear you have in this MU.

i played aggro against ROB back then for some reason...

That's because for the most part it works.

Well now, it's either that, or we all sucked back then.

On a much more serious note, everything's been said. R.O.B. beats Sonic in a footsies game by outspeeding and outranging him. The key is being able to get in, stay in, and being able to get out, and stay out (A.K.A. put on the assault, itch a tent when the situation calls for it).

Err... almost everything anyway.

Does anybody else here besides me understand that if you somehow manage to get a hold of R.O.B.'s Gyro that your punishing options are severely different, if not limited? All for just simply further limiting R.O.B.'s already somewhat limited camping(/offensive?) game? Is it really worth the trade-off?

Think about it, the Gyro is an item. By constantly holding an item, you are switching your jab/tilt/smash/aerial/GRAB (this is the deal-breaker here) for a light/heavy toss, and some possible pseudo-setups.

Now it isn't all necessarily a bad thing. I won't get into the sort of mental mindgames that could go into stealing/hitting R.O.B. with his own toy, but of course the practical applications are certainly there. You can sort of glide-toss the Gyro around, possibly into hard-hitting/killing moves.

This all depends on the power of the Gyro, the way it was thrown, and from where it was thrown. Since it cannot stay consistent enough, I myself would not rely on that. With that I bring up my next point.

You say you could "dribble" the Gyro around to temporarily restore Sonic's original moveset. Just how possible is it to keep the act going though? If you let go of it for starters, you risk either the Gyro from losing it's spin (assuming it's even grounded), or Giving R.O.B. the chance to regain control. If it hits a shield, it's gone.

I know that by simply stating that perfecting your item game makes this issue become negligible, if not non existent; but perhaps you can see there's a lot of trouble that has to be dealt with to do all this. Is there a more reasonable or better way to go about this, if at all?

 

[Tesh]

IF I don't have a current use for the gyro I'll just glide toss it up and get my most favorable punish. Its best not to get tunnel vision about that sort of thing. Its not super important to hold onto his gyro for minutes at a time. Once it starts to limit you more than it limits him, its time to throw it around and use it ti supplement your moveset.

If he wants to continue using it against you once you destroy the one you have, he has to risk you taking it again.

Can anyone confirm for me that FSJ to Bair is a true combo in this matchup? Espy, K.I.D. or Kinzer perhaps.

 

[Tenki]

I believe it is. I actually missed a jab lock in a tourney match vs ZOM~B forever ago because I was too excited about getting the FSJ and I did a B-air instead of N-air lol.

Problem is it's kind of difficult to get a good spindash FSJ on ROB (...or any character) at a kill %.

Mid % would be pushing it, and at low%, you might as well just try to weak n-air jablock.

 

[Espy Rose]

It works if you footstool ROB at a particular height, I believe. Footstooling too low gives him a chance to avoid it.

Any aerial hits him as long as you fastfall it, actually.

 

[Life]

At the one tournament I've ever been to in my life, the one match I (if not for SDing twice) could have won was ROB. (The others being MK and DDD.)

That HAS to say something. (And it serves as my grain-of-salt warning as well.)

Downtaunt ROB's laser if you're on level ground at the start of the match. When they start learning to angle it to hit you, start jumping over it. Let them raaaage. (If you'd rather do something useful, spindash under the laser instead.)

Get ROB above you and don't let him down. His only options below him are Nair and Dair (IIRC). Nair has enough startup that, in that situation, you should be able to see it coming and either airdodge, get out, or uair during startup lag. Dair, even if it connects, puts you back on the ground and bounces ROB up slightly, so if you tech it you can still chase after him. Obviously, this means use uthrow if you get a grab.

Punish ROB's recovery. I'll step aside on details, but he's not good at returning to the stage.

ROB Nair frame data, as copypasta'd from their frame data thread:
Hitbox Out: Frame 18
Hitbox End: Frame 33
Move End: Frame 48
Autocancel?: Frame 33
Landing Lag: 12 Frames?

Well within human reaction time, if you watch for it. Nair, like Falcon Punch, is bad unless you get hit by it. Which will happen occasionally, as people have been Falcon Punched before. But it's still fairly slow (I believe our smashes come out faster).

Dsmash comes out on frame 4. Watch for it out of shields and such. If you can shield it yourself (I'm not sure if you can DI down and get into a shield), it should be fairly punishable.

Somebody correct me if I said anything stupid.

I'm not really sure what ROB CAN do to us, so I won't give a ratio.

Somebody talk about ROB's planking?

 

[Kinzer]

Right on the money fellas. Too low and he'll hit the floor and have time to react. Too high up and he'll probably be able to jump/shield/whatever to avoid it.

That's obviously for aerial footstools. What's interesting is that for grounded FSJs you happen to get a 20 frame advantage. Of course you'll never be able to take advantage of that due to how high you jump even from a SHFSJ (Short-Hop Footstool Jump). Dare I say though, if you happen to be seriously messing around with your opponent by constantly jumping on their head, the shop will get shorter and shorter and soon enough you'll be at just the right height to hit anybody.

Edit: Usually better to just SDI DSmash up as opposed to down. It's that final hit you want to avoid.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I think DIing out of the down smash gives ROB frame advantage so he can just f tilt you or jab you right after for more damage anyway.

also, grounded footstool= free dair.

ROB plank is annoying, but not necessarily good against sonic. you can drop springs to force him to act, hopefully you can just shield the lasers and the gyro and the invincible fair. the only tricky thing to watch out for is when they fall a bit and double jump airdodge on to the stage, its a very deceiving move to the eyes.

dont be afraid to run off and bair him if you see a pattern.

 

[Life]

I think DIing out of the down smash gives ROB frame advantage so he can just f tilt you or jab you right after for more damage anyway.

HAPPY MATH TIME!

D-smash:
Before Charge: 2 Frames
After Charge: 2 Frame
Hitbox Out: Frame 4
Hitbox End: Frame 16
Move End: Frame 37

Fastest option is jab/dtilt at frame 3.

That makes ~24 frames between last hitbox and ROB's fastest attack options. I seriously doubt there's nothing we can do in that time.

Sonic has 2 frames of landing lag. That's ~22 frames we have to get out of hitlag, land, and attack. I'm not sure how much hitlag a correctly-DI'd dsmash has, and there's probably a little variation in the time it takes to land. Sonic's fastest attack option is frame-3 jab. No way in heck that's not gonna land (unless you SDI away from ROB, in which case frame advantage is no longer relevant as you're both out of attack range). If I'm erring too far on the side of caution, ~3 more frames gets a tilt or a grab for your trouble, which is of course a much stronger punishment as now ROB's in the air and, well, yeah.

That's not counting the possibility of aerials. It depends on how high you go, which is something I'm not sure of.

Both of my sources are old frame data threads (ROBs and ours respectively), so they might be slightly off. Only way I'm totally wrong is if Dsmash has lots of IASA to it and nobody told me, or something silly like that.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its been a while and I dont remember completely but it also might knock sonic out of range to hit rob with anything anyway. but as i said, youll still be in range for him to f tilt you.

 

[Tesh]

InCom, his anti juggling options aren't quite so simple. Unlike normal 2 jump characters, he doesn't always have to go straight through you to get to the ground (offensively or defensively). He should have plenty of gas, unless its a juggle that came from edgeguarding. He can still fly up to help space his slow aerials or try to go around you to the edge. If he is drifting one direction and you commit to a jump to punish, he can B reverse a Gyro charge or toss to change directions. Then he can cancel the charge with an airdodge if he needs to.

ROB can be tough to gimp, but being patient and keeping him off the stage can really pressure him. His Up B only refuels while he is standing on the ground. Holding the ledge doesn't count. So keep track of his gas and if he lands, GET HIM BACK INTO THE AIR ASAP. Gas takes 2-3 seconds to fully recharge. Understanding how this might limit him will make him easier to read and let you know when he has run out of options. With his airspeed, the loss of his 2nd Jump and all of his gas CAN gimp him. Keep this in mind at low percents as well. Spring spikes and stagespikes can help keep him offstage long enough to go empty. Especially if you can force him to take longer paths to get past you.

Can't you just uair him on the way out of his Dsmash?

Usually for footstools at kill percents I use ASC single hit to footstool. Its much easier to get, especially on large characters. But I suppose if you are punishing a ground move, he would be too low for Bair to combo out of ASC-FSJ.

Kinzer and/or Espy, if footstool combos into any aerial at the right height, would I be able to setup FSJ into Uair1, then combo from there? I need to know the exact advantage on Uair1 for ROB. I'm picturing amazing things like 3XASCFSJFFUai1 to uptilt or grab. That would be sexy and easily 50+ damage.

Little side not to reiterate here. When you footstool R.O.B in the air, you can hit him with Upair 1 guaranteed while you are rising (if you buffer it). At certain low-mid percents, this sets up for what I call "The R.O.B. Ladder". At these percents, R.O.B will suffer knockback equal to the height or your FSJ, allowing you too footstool-uair him again. This only seems to work 2-3 times consecutively as your FSJ gets weaker and your Uair gets stronger.

This random video sorta shows what I'm ranting about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj_AeVMyKpY

One last FSJ question. Do we have any combos on a R.O.B that doesn't land during the footstool? Like if we Aerial FSJ him offstage, what can we do besides Dair and homing attack/spring?

 

[Tenki]

Oh, that's interesting.

Uair1 > footstool?

I never seem to get anything to link from Uair1 :/

It'd be pretty crazy if you could SDI out of D-smash and Uair1>FSJ

 

[Tesh]

Don't worry about the uair1 to footstool. There is no way we have enough frames for that to works. Kinzer said we have like 5-10 frames on people. That would be epic if we had a horrifyingly slow infinite on R.O.B. (2 damage per second?). With SET knockback. That would take a whole 2 minutes to pass the 300% stalling limit.

 

[Trillion]

Aim for the head.

 

[Tesh]

Does anyone have any good high level videos of Sonic v R.O.B.? I'd like to put a couple of them in the OP. Wedge vs Chibo plz so I can see this unstoppable planking?

 

[Kinzer]

I'm... not sure if those were recorded.

Wedge, hurry up and get your rematch done. Preferably recorded too. Not only do I want to see some samples, but I also want to see you follow through with your word when you get the chance to play the guy again.

 

[FRiSKruns]

iirc, Soni-Uair outranges ROB's Dair, it's also faster than his nair and Dair as iirc. Keeping him above you is generally what you want to do. Uthrow of course sets up well for this, you might even be able to uthrow->uair(gets airdodged)->regrab

Edit: of course the airdodged Uair would have to be auto-canceled